(Topic ID: 207477)

Surf Champ bonus relay stuck on startup

By pbain

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

HELP!

I have a 1976 Gottlieb "Surf Champ" (my first machine, an electro-mechanical!). It was in rough shape when it arrived and has needed a lot of help.

It was working okay until I rebuilt the pop-up bumpers. Now it is stuck with an endless reset of the relay. Because of this reset on the relay, the machine won't even fully start up.

So thankful for the help offered on this site.

Because of the inspiration and guidance of others on this site, so far I've been able to:

Refinish all plastic inserts (they were cupped),
Replace the rollover target plastic inserts,
Replace all rubber rings,
Replace all palnuts,
Replace the plastic set,
Replace the spinner target (and stickers),
Replace the drop targets,
Completely rebuild both pop-up bumpers (including soleniod coils),
Replace the Game Over, 1st Ball, and Tilt-Hold relay coils,
Replace one of the chime coils,
Replace all lights with LEDs,
Replace the ball launcher
Replace all fuses,
Replace the legs,
Replace the leg risers,
Replace the backdoor,
Replace the locks, and
Rebuild the bottom of the cabinet.

#2 6 years ago

On the schematic, the Target Bank will reset when the 1st Ball (U) relay and either the Add Player Unit (P) relay or the Start (S) relay are energized. Step 1 is to verify which of those relays are being held energized.

#3 6 years ago

The 1st Ball (U) and the Add Player Unit (P) relay are energized. When I hold the Add Player Unit closed, it stops resetting the Target Bank. Any thoughts on what to do next?

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from pbain:

The 1st Ball (U) and the Add Player Unit (P) relay are energized. When I hold the Add Player Unit closed, it stops resetting the Target Bank. Any thoughts on what to do next?

Did you mean that when you hold the Add Player Unit relay in the de-energized position the Target Bank stops resetting?

#5 6 years ago

I suppose that's what it is. When I pull the Add Player Unit relay in tighter (rather than push it out), the Target Bank stops resetting.

However, I forgot to add that the coil for the Add Player Unit relay stays energized even when it is pulled in.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from pbain:

I suppose that's what it is. When I pull the Add Player Unit relay in tighter (rather than push it out), the Target Bank stops resetting.
However, I forgot to add that the coil for the Add Player Unit relay stays energized even when it is pulled in.

If you're saying that the Target Bank stops resetting when you push the Add Player Unit relay plastic in the same direction that it goes when it energizes, then some switch on the Add Player Unit relay is out of adjustment. Does the motor stop running when you do that?

#7 6 years ago

Yes, the motor stops running.

I've checked all the relays and all the switches. Everything seems to be set correctly. I haven't checked the score motor.
I also double checked the playfield and can't find anything.

When the Add Player Unit (P) energizes, it pulls in. If I push it out, to stop it from pulling in, then the Target Bank stops resetting. However the Add Player Unit stays energized.

[sorry if my earlier posts confused the relay energizing pushing in or pulling out].

#8 6 years ago

For the Add Player Unit (P) to energize in the first place, one of these 2 switches must be making contact. Which one (if either) is it?

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#9 6 years ago

Is it scoring while it's running?

#10 6 years ago

The switch on the P relay has a very short wire connecting it to the coil. There's are probably only one switch on the trough.

#11 6 years ago

Something repeatedly energizes the Add Player Unit (P) relay. It's not the trough switch. The switch is open and I removed the ball while I'm working on the machine.

The game is not playable because the Target Bank resets each time the Add Player Unit (P) relay is energized.

#12 6 years ago

Unsolder the Brown&White wire from the Trough switch. If the Add Player Unit (P) relay still energizes try unsoldering the Maroon&Green wire from the P relay. If the P relay doesn't energize now, you're going to have to follow the Brown&White wire to see where it's getting power.

If the P relay is in the backbox or on the bottom panel, maybe you can find it on a Jones plug.

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#13 6 years ago

I've made some progress. As it turns out, the AX relay was misaligned. I corrected the switches.

Continuing issues:
When the playfield Jones plug is in, the score motor keeps turning and the P relay keeps energizing with each cycle.
Each time the P relay energizes, the Target Bank resets.
If I unplug the playfield Jones plug, then the score motor stops.

The flippers don't work.
The right flipper scores 5,000.

I'm just lost here.

#14 6 years ago

Check that NC score motor sw. 1C. Do you have the card telling what each switch does?

#15 6 years ago

Problem solved. Thank you Howard for all your help and encouragement. I couldn't have done it without you.

(I wish there was good video tutorial on reading a schematic.)

The switches on the AX and BX relays needed adjustment. That was huge.
Then I checked the board for shorts (checking all wires and lamps). I found one frayed wire and fixed it.

The machine was blowing a fuse now. After going through 6 fuses, I built a circuit breaker fuse like the one here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#top
(Unfortunately, we don't have Radio Shack anymore and none of the hardware stores had anything below a 15 AMP breaker. I found a 10 AMP breaker at a marine supply store.)

Remembering the coils I replaced and how the pop bumper coils had diodes, I checked the coil for the chime box. Sure enough, tucked away in there was a diode. I cut and removed the diode from the coil and all worked!

I'm not sure why the coil shipped with a diode on it, but it did. So the lesson learned is: CUT THE DIODE on the coil if you are replacing a coil without a diode!

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from pbain:

Problem solved. Thank you Howard for all your help and encouragement. I couldn't have done it without you.
(I wish there was good video tutorial on reading a schematic.)
The switches on the AX and BX relays needed adjustment. That was huge.
Then I checked the board for shorts (checking all wires and lamps). I found one frayed wire and fixed it.
The machine was blowing a fuse now. After going through 6 fuses, I built a circuit breaker fuse like the one here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#top
(Unfortunately, we don't have Radio Shack anymore and none of the hardware stores had anything below a 15 AMP breaker. I found a 10 AMP breker at a marine supply store.)
Remembering the coils I replaced and how the pop bumper coils had diodes, I checked the coil for the chime box. Sure enough, tucked away in there was a diode. I cut and removed the diode from the coil and all worked!
I'm not sure why the coil shipped with a diode on it, but it did. So the lesson learned is: CUT THE DIODE on the coil if you are replacing a coil without a diode!

Same coils are used in SS games where they need the diode. EMs: cut them off or blow the fuse, but you now know that

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from pbain:

(I wish there was good video tutorial on reading a schematic.)

Not exactly a tutorial on reading schematics, but havepinwilltravel on YT has a bunch of vids on fixing EM's, including a lot of schematic referencing... highly recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy4k_pI6HZoH-Yd9TyL3fdQ

This specific vid has an intro to reading schematics...

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