(Topic ID: 260179)

Surf Champ AX/First Ball Relay Problem

By RetroRyan

4 years ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by RetroRyan
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#1 4 years ago

Hey all, so I have a Gottlieb Surf Champ Im working on and have an issue somewhere within the reset cycle. When you turn the game on the game over relay engages. When you hit the credit button the hold relay pulls in and the start and replay relays pull in then quickly release. Score motor also turns for a quick moment then stops. If i hold the first ball relay closed with a skewer stick and hit the start button the game goes through the entire reset cycle and kicks out a ball perfectly. Any thoughts on where the bad link might be here?

Thanks!!!

#2 4 years ago
Quoted from RetroRyan:

the start and replay relays pull in then quickly release

If the Start relay (S) doesn't stay energized for 1/3 turn of the motor, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

Quoted from RetroRyan:

Score motor also turns for a quick moment then stops

If the Score motor doesn't turn a full 1/3 of a turn, check this switch on the motor.

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#3 4 years ago

Awesome thank you. Ill get after this tonight and report results.

#4 4 years ago

The game doesn't seem to meet either of these criteria. The score motor turns one third of a turn and the start relay also seems to stay energized for one third of a turn. I could send a video of necessary but I'm pretty sure I am seeing this correctly. Does this indicate a problem elsewhere? Thank you.

#5 4 years ago

How far does it get in the reset sequence from the Surf Champ manual?

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#6 4 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

How far does it get in the reset sequence from the Surf Champ manual?[quoted image]

AX relay does not actuate. So, not far...

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from RetroRyan:

AX relay does not actuate

Then Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#8 4 years ago

Hi HowardR , RetroRyan
in post-1 is written "holding the First-Ball-Relay closed with a skewer stick --- the pin then functions" --- the First-Ball-Relay is the U-Relay --- and in the JPG in post-8 I see an Make-and-Brake-Switch on the U-Relay --- is the interesting question "why does the U-Relay not stay pulling ?". Greetings Rolf

#9 4 years ago

Ok folks, followed schematic as HowardR suggested. First jumpered bl-rd at far end of S relay switch to AX relay coil (yel-red) and bam, it worked. Next jumpered grn-red at U relay switch, and again it worked. Then jumpered U relay at brn-red and again it worked. Lastly i jumpered yel-red at U relay, the last wire on the mb switch to ax relay coil and nothing. If I'm not mistaken this indicates that the make break switch on the U relay is not making proper contact between the Middle switch leaf and the last switch leaf. Will readjust switch and report back.

Thanks guys!

#10 4 years ago

As a formality I jumpered the front side and the back side of the make break switch on the U relay and she fired right up. I think we have effectively isolated the problem. Thanks everybody. Ill be back with my next problem soon I am sure...

2 weeks later
#11 4 years ago

UPDATE: I got my new relay coil for the first ball relay. I installed the new coil and fired up the game and now it locks on (loudly) immediately when i turn it on. Doesnt appear to be any shorts on the relay and the solders are good. Any ideas? Thanks! Picture below is the old coil.
20200121_131733 (resized).jpg20200121_131733 (resized).jpg

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from RetroRyan:

it locks on (loudly) immediately when i turn it on.

That looks to be normal because the Tilt Hold relay (H) isn't energized when you turn on the power.

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#13 4 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

That looks to be normal because the Tilt Hold relay (H) isn't energized when you turn on the power.[quoted image]

I'll try it again tonight. It scared me when I turned it on because it was really really noisy. Maybe that coil just isn't tight enough in there or something and that's why it's buzzing so loud. I did order a 220 ohm coil as well so I guess if it does work but it's super noisy I'll pop that one in. I'll report back tonight after I check it out. Thank you!

#14 4 years ago

So HowardR you were correct, relay is doing its job correctly. No less, it is VERY noisy! It appears that it is not pulling in all the way and its creating a lot of vibration. Im a little scared to adjust all the switches to reduce tension. I swapped out the spring on the relay with a lower tension spring with no luck.

Any thoughts?

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