Back on topic!

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The current sales tax 'nexus' law varies per state and many states currently don't have a law in place, but probably will soon to get in on the sales tax bonanza.

Using Jersey Jack as an example:

*If JJP was doing more than $10,000 in volume and/or have more than 200 transactions annually in Washington State then they would have to charge customers in WA. sales tax.

*Ohio rules or 'nexus' currently is $500,000 or more in sales so JJP probably would not have to charge sales tax there.

*Alabama, Ct. and Ms is $250,000 to hit the sales tax
*IL, Ky, RI, top out at $100,000 or 200 transactions

Point is, state internet laws are currently all over the place with Pa, Wa, and Ok being the lowest at $10,000 billed annually before sales tax would be charged.

Stay tuned, as if Congress takes a run at this (T.B.D) it will all change, as right now it's up to each individual state to decide.

It's the suede denim secret police! And they've come for your uncool niece!

It's a mute point.

"Chicago once waged a 40-year war on pinball"

a story we know much off.

https://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2018/05/05/chicago-once-waged-a-40-year-war-on-pinball

The Rhetoric that followed from Horse Gambling, and gambling in General made Pinball a Sin.

So would sales tax on a NIB be a Sin Tax?

Like that deaf, dumb and blind kid that sure plays a mean pinball?

I thought it would turn into that it does not matter what state your company lives in; I thought you will be charging applicable tax at the destination state.

Reposting this as a courtesy for any one who may not have seen it as the page changed so quickly:

Alright gang, the team has decided no more discussion on the positives or negatives on a national level of taxes, government spending, social security, entitlement programs, income taxes, or any related matter.

We believe this thread can provide useful information to people on this new ruling and the implementation of the ruling that does substantially increase what many people (not all people) were paying for their NIB machines. Feel free to continue discussing the sales tax issue itself and when and where and how it is being implemented, but no more discussion on the underlying merits of taxation.

Zero tolerance. For the next fifteen minutes we will delete anything not squarely on topic (in case someone was typing as this message was being relayed) and then it is thread ejection for any violation or partial violation.
Thank you. Mod team.

Wow I didn't know they were so high in some states. I remember when ours changed from 4 to 6¢.
I also didn't know they throw all those small decimals in there.

That's probably the exact reason we still use pennies. lol. I don't mind our near 9% rate as long as they use some of it to fill holes with more cement.

I don’t buy my machines on the internet, so none of this applies anyway.

Why are you guys worked up over it?

Ah well then, let's close up the thread everyone.

One last thing though.

This is the first time any of my posts have been highlighted as being important. I feel like a proud papa!

Oh no shit, nice...I thought the yellow outline meant they were banning you again.

You da man Odiner!

Now it’s time for some pizza, beer and pinball. F taxes

And get ready for long awaited Sicario2

That yellow outline is just o-din’s usual patina, a haze of booze, smoke, and surf wax.

I've been completely deleted like nib sales once the sales tax kicks on in.

Id sure like to have a pizza right now but im trying to save up for IMDN and The Munsters. Ever since they announced this tax thing ive had to eat soup beans and baloney sandwiches ever since!

Man I used to love baloney sandwiches as a kid!

Btw, thx for the warning Tiger, I don’t like to get the bouncing email at the top of the page

Especially after a night of drunk posting. Wake up the next day and see that thing bouncing and it’s like uh oh, what happened

Mine's been on perma bounce for the last two years.

What burns me is when they talk about a half-cent sales tax being added on like it's nothing when it's actually a 7% increase. Pure deception. Whatever happened to taxation without representation? Just glad that I retired at such a young age and have more money than I know what to do with.

Ice,

I'm not talking about VC's, CPA's and lawyers.

Couldn't agree more than "Inequality is awful", however Silicon Valley is one of the few places left in this country where secretaries and low-level workers can still get a piece of the pie (i.e. stock options and profit sharing). Walmart? Nah. Construction companies building our McMansions? Nah. Furniture construction has largely been sent to Vietnam, China, etc. So many industries have successfully put workers in their tiny little box and do little to help them earn a living wage. So while you can bash the top 1% in any major industry, Silicon Valley has produced a huge number of "comfortably rich" folks while other industries are funneling the money to very few at the top (Walmart possibly being the most extreme case of inequality).

snaroff

Just got my property tax bill. $4922. Summabitch. That's a pin every year.
Went up over $300 from last year.

I wish my property tax bill was that low.

His could be for six months. Similar to yours with shittier weather.

Just when you think you have your mortgage paid off...... it's the second mortgage you can never pay off and is ever increasing.

Right on the money. Getting down to just 7 years left on my home mortgage. Unfortunately the so called home equity loan I took out to renovate the place won’t be payed off till after I’m dead.

Never considered p[aying off my mortgage. You'll always need to get new one to pay for something.

You guys give me a heart attack. I paid my little old house off in 1995. My best car is a 2003 model. I'm not fancy in neighborhood or going down the road. I try my best to live cheap. It saved my ass several times in the 1990s as I kept getting laid off, then recalled, then laid off again.

This all takes me back to my first decent paying job in 1979. Another guy who hired in with me was working in Colorado and was transferred to Louisiana. He did not care for crawfish country so he quit and headed home to Mother Kansas. He was in process of buying a house with his home equity from Colorado.

I asked him if he was going to pay all of his equity money on the house he was buying. "Hell Yes !! Fuck those $300.00 a month house payments".

And now, all of you younger guys talk in terms of what a bargain you are getting when your mortgage payment is "only" $1200.00 per month.

A mortgage is a bargain because it can make you a pile of money. Interest rates have been so low that you are better off leveraging that. To each their own of course, but personally paying off a mortgage is a financial mistake.

Yeah i hate having my home paid for. Its one of the worst things that has ever happened to me.

It is a bad thing, with rates at 3% to 4% for over a decade now means paying off a mortgage is a mistake.

Yeah. Yeah. Spoken like Wall Street pro. Leverage everything to the max to get that last half point.

I took J. P. Morgan's advise and sold down to a sleeping point. When I paid off in 1995 rates were 8% and 9%. In 2002 rates had backed off to 7%. Nobody saw 0% Fed Funds coming in the future. Hind site being what it is, if I had known rates were going to colapse I would have loaded up on 30 zero coupon bonds in the IRA.

I don't need the leverage and really enjoy not having to make a house payment every month.

My mortgage was paid off when it was at 9.5% but im still glad that i dont have a big ass house payment no matter what the rates are. Im certainly not going to go jump into a more expensive home just so i can have a house payment lol. I like living debt free, its so much less stressful.

Saving 3-4% is not a mistake

Being debt- or mortgage-free is NEVER a bad thing, and having some debt can be a good thing. But life is way more than finances.

I have degrees in accounting, finance and economics, understand the 'benefits' of leverage. But my wife and I now live debt free. It is the most liberating feeling you can have, and one that most people will not ever experience.

I'll take a guess and say you are younger than average pinsider, have never been unemployed for an extended period of time, and didn't loose your ass in the 2007 RE crash. Those that have hold different values than you, and owning their house outright brings a sense of security that they value far more than being leveraged.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-494_j4el.pdf

Supreme courts decision on South Dakota vs. Wayfair Inc on June 21. Thought you might want to read a little.

I totally agree life is more than finances, that's *exactly* why you leverage low interest when you can, so you can live more stress free.

I'm 47.

I have been unemployed, this is all the more reason to leverage great mortgage rates while you can!

Our home value plummeted during 2007-2011. This only hurt people if you had to sell and not buy another place, in most cases it was because people didn't buy a property within their means (ie, having a mortgage close to what rent would be). If you didn't then you just lived in your house like normal. For us it was beneficial because our property taxes went down for a decade, and now the property value is back and then some.

This has nothing at all to do with values, it's just a way to earn more money to make dealing with the situations you brought up far easier.

Real world example, yes we could have paid off our mortgage, and in fact had planned to do so to be so called "debt-free" some time ago. It's what everyone parroted at the time as the thing to do and we were going to go along with it. I mentioned that when talking to some guys who were far richer than I was at some gathering, and they looked at me like I was from the moon. They set me straight, no you don't pay off your mortgage when rates are at 3-4%. Instead we took their advice, took that money and rather than pay off our mortgage we bought another property that we rented out, nothing lavish but something within our means.

Result? Aside from 6 figures of appreciation in the price of the rental since we bought it, that property is free to us being paid off by renters and we make rent money profit every month.

Now we're saving up to do it again in a couple of years, assuming rates remain reasonably low. This way even if we are both unemployed we still get paid from rent money, it makes being unemployed *easier* to manage making life less stressful. It has other benefits but I'm not going to get into it all. Ultimately when we retire the plan is to have three fully paid off homes, one to live in and two delivering rent money so that we aren't dependent on retirement funds. This also makes life far stressful since check any forum (including this one) as people bitch all the time that retirement funds won't be there for them when they get around to retiring. In our case it won't matter since we'll have rent money, as we're taking advantage of low mortgage rates again within our means.

In other words, living "debt-free" would just add stress to our lives and put us in a worse situation. So like I said I agree, there is more to life than finances. I'd rather enjoy life rather than worry about unemployment, retirement funds, etc. But like I said to each their own, do what works for you. I was merely responding to the being "debt-free" is always good. It's not.

First of all, I appreciate anyone calling me "a younger guy" these days.
Secondly, I'm glad my mortgage isn't that high or I couldn't afford pinball machines. I wish Ann Arbor had Wichita Pricing for homes as I'd have more.

In doing Financial and Business "consulting" these days, Personal Finance first rules, are the comfort and experience of the Individual or Company.
In Personal matters, a professional, (Not me), can suggest all kinds of strategies. (ie I paid of my conventional, and went with a .5% below Prime, Interest only Equity Line), to bi-monthly payments, to mortgage to the absolute max!
All are about personal goals, cash flow, and desire to learn and perhaps change methods of money management.
All work, and in hindsight, all provide different results. Most often, huge differences in monthly costs, personal wealth, and estate planning need to be considered.
For me, the equity line, served as a line of credit for everything, still tax deductible, 1/2 the monthly payment, and liquidity
to collect 7 properties, all which have appreciated even years ago, for me to realize retirement.
I can certainly respect any other view, as there is no right or wrong....just money.

In business, the "Sales Tax" issue was a big debate for online business that I was involved in since 2000.
Today, that is all changing. Large Ticket items will have the biggest impact of course.
Id expect promotions to offset that, I hope in Pinball, and still "work arounds" that will occur, notably resale certs increasing dramatically, as there is minimal funding to police this.
The sales Tax changes wont hurt the wealthy, they will hurt the poor a bit, in general they purchase less high ticket items,
and as expected, the middle class will bear the burden.

Add this to wherever this Trade war takes us, and I only hope for the best, or at least, business as usual.

At least being debt free, does not accrue added sales tax, and certainly no negatives as long as you have an established credit history.

If a person lives below their means, concerns should be minimized. Overextension of credit is the trap that must be avoided in first world countries anyway.

The trap is easier to avoid, if you have lived abroad in many areas of the world for a time. It can be invisible, if never experienced first hand.

No one really needs a pinball machine (or many), and I am myself slowly downsizing one game at a time. Tired of moving them over the years. Time to pass part of the torch to proteges.

I see what you did there (worked in a carguement).......

Rental income and property appreciation is great, but there are risks. Lack of liquidity is one (house rich, cash poor). Another is that a downturn could subject you to a layoff, and lose your tenants (who were also laid off), and then be unable to sell while having to make triple mortgage payments in a neighborhood which might not be on the upswing for several years.

Also, some tenants cause expensive damage which you don’t find until after they leave. Or are masters of legal manipulation and can be expensive to evict (while paying no rent).

Landlording can be lucrative and is usually safe... but too many unknowns for me. Uncertainty has a cost upon your well-being not measured in dollars.

It would be interesting to know what % of buyers were working with out-of-state distributors to avoid sales tax, vs. shopping local and already paying their taxes. There will inevitably be a few people that were in at current pricing (be it $5700 for a Stern Pro or $8500 for a JJP Standard), but will be put off by the extra 5-10% that sales tax will cost them. But given that NIB pricing seems to be climbing at 5-10% per year anyway, if the NIB pin market crashes on a "the rent is too damn high" basis, I doubt it will be attributable to sales tax.