(Topic ID: 126687)

Supercap / ultracap discussion thread

By swampfire

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by swampfire
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 8 years ago

    I just bought 10 of these 1.5Fd, 5.5V supercaps for a shipped cost of about $4 each.

    http://www.newark.com/panasonic-electronic-components/eec-s5r5h155/capacitor-double-layer-1-5f-5/dp/96K9373

    I wonder if anybody has done the math on a) how long it takes a supercap to fully charge, and b) how many days (on standby) before it drops below the level needed to preserve SRAM.

    Looking forward to comments from my favorite tech guys!

    #2 8 years ago

    It realy depends on what type of system you try using them on
    say system 6-7 need more than one becouse they are inneficient, a 4fd on a sys 11 will give you 6-9 months backup
    8fd on a sys 7 boardset will give you 2-3 months
    a 1.5 on a bally -35 will give you 6 months, or over a year with a 4fd charge time varies leave the machine on say 2 hours youll be pretty much loaded

    #3 8 years ago

    I'm surprised I don't see more people using these. My games are on at least 2 hours a month, unless I have them in storage. I didn't even see a "supercap" thread, hence this one.

    Hellfire, I thought about going 4Fd after reading one of your other posts, but they're about $12 each. I can also stack the 1.5Fd caps if I need to.

    #4 8 years ago

    Every IC is going to be different. I want to say i noticed that PCD5101P uses way less current than some of the other 5101 types. PCD5101P would last a year or more in theory if im doing the math right.

    Memory caps are a good option to get the batteries off of the board. I use CR2032 lithium in a holder only because it is cheaper. In a Bally a cr2032 should last like 10 years and i can do it for under a buck.

    #5 8 years ago

    Yes, CR2032 is what I should have done. I sometimes put a game in storage for 6-12 months. It's not a huge deal to do a Factory Reset and start over when it comes back into rotation, but doing nothing is always preferred.

    #6 8 years ago

    My NGG came with a 1F one from previous owner. It only lasted 8-10 days at a time.. Garbage, looks like it was undersized.

    Just replaced with NVRAM instead, prefer that approach

    #7 8 years ago

    If you want help doing the actual calculation about how long it would last, I can teach you how to do it, just PM me.

    You only need to take one measurement for the calc.

    #8 8 years ago

    I put a 1.5F in Williams system 11b and a gottlieb system 80. So far so good. I never monitored to see how long settlng last. I usually turn games on for an hour or so during the week.
    Yeah it is pain I guess to have to remember to turn on all the time but a really good cheap option to having no batteries on the board at all.

    Ed at GPE (great plains electronics) has them. Next time your placing an order pick up a couple they are worth it.

    #9 8 years ago

    I just did some math on my GamePlan MPU-2, which WolfMarsh will check for me. I think the supercap stores about 0.5mWh, and the game consumes less than 0.00025mW in standby. That means it should last about 2000 hours, or about 3 months. I don't know the minimum operating voltage for the 6810 RAM (128 bytes!!) is. I would guess about 2.5V? So the settings would last about 6 weeks.

    The charging current (while the game is on) is 1.25 mA, which means the supercap is fully charged in less than an hour.

    #10 8 years ago

    See this thread for more info: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/memory-capacitor-fans

    I get 10-14 days on System 6 with a 1.5F cap.

    I found you needed 4F on a system 11 to get similar results.

    I even have a 4F in a WPC era game (I500 and T2). Settings and scores are saved for over 2 weeks but the clock runs slow. WPC draws much more "off" current due to the ASIC keeping the time.

    Some people suggested using a resistor to limit the current when charging a totally dead cap this large. On most of my games, I just jumpered the blocking diode with wire, I have not experienced any negative effects. On my I500 I jumpered the diode with a 270 ohm resistor, it seems to work just fine. I have my machines on for a couple hours per week (at least) so this solution works great for me.

    I made some rough current draw measurements on WPC-S in the thread linked above. Also posted some low voltages I tested where the RAM still held.

    #11 8 years ago

    Here's what I use:
    DMD: STK12C68-W45 autostore nvSRAM
    System 11: DS1220AB-150
    1985 and older: memory capacitor

    I don't care about the clock on my DMDs; the only downside is that Midnight Madness could come at any time. I grabbed N=10 of the STK12C68 on Alibaba for about $6 each (many years ago). No issues so far.

    #12 8 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    Every IC is going to be different. I want to say i noticed that PCD5101P uses way less current than some of the other 5101 types. PCD5101P would last a year or more in theory if im doing the math right..

    I got just over a year with my Xenon with with one of these.
    Actual span varies widely depending on specific machine and 5101 memory used.

    #13 8 years ago

    Crap. I don't know what's up, but my (Game Plan) MPU-2 settings aren't lasting 2 days, much less 6 weeks. I will need to study this.

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