Super Straight
Segasa-Sonic, 1977I have a sonic super straight that i have got completely working. Except! Seems like there is always one of them. Once you start a game it all functions. When you score the first thing that scores 10,0000 points the 10,000 chime rings and then the coil stays energized and after that 10,000 will not score on anything 10,000. I have looked at all of the switches on all of the things that score 10,000 and they look fine. Anyone have any idea what could cause this? Thanks
Quoted from pinballman3:When you score the first thing that scores 10,0000 points the 10,000 chime rings and then the coil stays energized and after that 10,000 will not score on anything 10,000.
it wont score again because the coil is locked on. there is an EOS? switch somewhere that is not releasing the coil.
do you have the schematic? follow the 10k line back
The thing is it does not score the 10,000 the first time. The chime rings and the coil for the chime just stays energized. I checked the 10,000 point relay. When you score the first 10,000 which does not score on reals. The 10,000 point relay pulls in and just stays. I can release the 10,0000 relay manually and the chime coil d energizes.
Hi pinballman3
Dr_of Style said it: "Look at the EOS-Switch". OK, Look in the manual "Cabaret": http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/415/Williams_1968_Cabaret_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf -> page-15. Almost every Score-Reel has this End-Of-Stroke-Switch - see it standing upright ? The plunger - at end of its travel will OPEN this switch -> the XXX-Point-RELAY looses connection and lets go.
So we suspect a faulty-bent blade on this EOS-Switch "Player-1-Score-Reel-10'000s-Points" - NOT OPENING ...
And if the fault also is on Player-2, -3, -4: ALSO look at the 10'000s Score-Reels of player-2, -3, -4.
Greetings Rolf
Thanks for the replys. I checked somemore. I checked the end of stroke switch. The thing is it does not score the 10,000 points on the reel the first 10,000 points. So it does not hit the end of stroke switch to shut the 10,000 relay off. I tested it manually and the end of stroke switch will shut the 10,000 relay off. So i am thinking the 10,000 coil on the first score reel. Either the coil or what ever tells the coil to energize. What do you think?
Hi pinballman3
do You have a schema ? do You have a manual ? Please write about.
The ball on the playfield hits a target worth 10'000 points -> the target closes a switch -> current can flow -> the 10'000 point RELAY gets active -> it closes switches -> one switch closing should let current flow to the 10'000s-Score-Reel of WHICH player - THE PLAYER UNIT KNOWS WHICH PLAYER I PLAYING - through contacts on the Player-Unit the current is send to the approbiate Score-Reel. If a wire has broken-off somewhere in this way: The Coil on the score-drum does NOT fire - also: the coil can be shot / not working.
Look here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2449&picno=55536 -> lower left corner: the Player-Unit. Look at my JPG - it is from the Manual of "Sonic: Faces": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=806 -> instruction-manual-page-19. This Unit is shown "player-1 is playing". If the pin moves to 2nd player: The round bakelite plate will be stepped one step counterclockwise. I have drawn some "violet lines" - a connection.
Player-1 is playing -> ball hits a target -> 10'000 relay pulls -> through my "RED-Line" current flows to Player-1-10'000-Drum-Unit-Coil.
For safety reason: UNPLUG the 110 VAC Main-Cord.
Please look at the Player Unit: Are the wires soldered-on ? the encircled 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 ? well actually: all wires should be soldered-on. Grab each wire and gently pull a bit -> REALLY soldered-on ?
The fault can be in many places - we start our search for the fault AT THE PLAYER UNIT. Please check the Player-Unit and report - maybe we are lucky - maybe we must look other places.
For testing Coils on Units / relay-coils:
Do You (already) have some Jumper-Wires witch Gator-Clips on the ends ?
A Test-Lite is also handy - in another "Topic" / "other problems" Steve Fury shows a wonderful "Test-Light for testing 24 Volt (Relays) Circuitry ((24 VOLT !!!),
Here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics post-12. In post-10 he writes about testing (I also made myself this handy tool).
Greetings Rolf
Thank you rolf. After you talked about the player unit. I took it apart and completely cleaned it. It seems that that fixed it. I had figured out it was a intermittent problem. So when you made me realize the player unit had a part in it. I thought i bet that is it. I will let you know if it did not fix it.
Rolf guess what. Another problem. Of my making though i think. When i was putting the player unit back together the the center piece dropped down and spun some. The problem i have is it will only play a 4 player game. Do you know how or know where i can find the info to time or align the player unit? Thanks
Hi pinballman3
do You have a schema ? do You have a manual ? If You do not find the missing piece: We should have the schema - and the manual would be very helpful. We can guess "Player-Unit of Super Straight" is identical to "Player Unit Faces" - we could use the schema "Faces" - a big problem are "Wire-Colors""Super Straight <-> Faces".
Sonic pins are "clones" of Williams - the used Williams Parts. You could try to get a spare "Player Unit of a fairly modern Williams pin" - or maybe just the missing piece (asking in pinside).
For documentation -> here: http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1977-1978/index.html#/8/zoomed and http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1977-1978/index.html#/11/zoomed - no help.
A new topic with a picture "pieces of the Player Unit I have - can you help me getting a replacement part" - do You see on ...-page-8 / -11 the missing part -> maybe asking PBR ? (telling them the Part-Number)
If You cannot get the part: Mounting the two bakelite plates on a "spare Williams Unit" - a lot of work - but with schema and manual You can get the alignment.
No spare part AND no spare Wms-Unit: You can make your pin to be an "ONLY-SINGLE-Player-Game" You fix the two bakelite-plates and the Snowshoe-wipers in between tohether IN POSITION "First Player" - You always ONLY start a One-player-game.
Think of: Williams and Ballys have "Ball-Count-Unit BCU" and Player-Unit P-U". Lets say the pin is set for "3 balls per play".
The sequence of a 1-player-game is "P-U=1, BCU=1" -> "P-U=1, BCU=2" -> "P-U=1, BCU=3" -> Game-Over.
The Player-Unit ONLY steps forward in a multiplayer-game - example a two-player-game:
"P-U=1, BCU=1" -> "P-U=2, BCU=1" -> "P-U=1, BCU=2" -> "P-U=2, BCU=2" ... -> Game-Over.
So either a spare part or a spare unit or a "single-player-game".
In Switzerland / Germany its now 11:30 at night (23:30) - I go to sleep - I wonder what I read from You. Greetings Rolf
I did not lose a part. Ok i think it is the coin unit. It does not seem to reset. Go back to one player. The pin that is suppose to hit the switch does not hit it. So i think the switch is way out of adjustment also. I can put a plastic stick to hold open the reset switch on the coin unit and it will let me play a one player game.
I do have a manual and schematics. I need to find out how the coin unit works. Is that what determines how many players?
Hi pinballman3
fine - no lost part. The title of this topic is "Bell-Coil" - is the problem "scoring 10'000 Points" solved ? If so: Please mark the topic as "solved" (and give a short explanation: The fault was ...). THEN start a new topic "Sonic Super Straight is always a 4-player-game" (((short description of the problem You actually have))). Think of: In the future somebody has a problem -> he does search the pinside-forums -> He'd like to read about THAT specific problem.
Yes, the Coin-Unit is resetted at start of a new game (Position-Zero means only ONE player wants to play the next game). The Coin-Unit will be stepped-up to "2" / "3" / "4" players want to play.
If the Coin-Unit does not work properly - if the Player-Unit does not work properly - if these two units have "problems in communication": We have problems as "always a four-player game" and such problems. Schema-Faces-area-D-6 shows the communication in between these two units.
Start a new topic and write a good description of what happens when You want to play a 1-player-game / ... 2-player-game / ...3 / ...4. Greetings Rolf
The problem with the 10,000 point chime coil staying energized after the first 10,000 points was scored. Which also did not register on the reel. The problem was the player unit in the backbox was not making good contact. I took it apart and cleaned it good. Reinstalled it and the 10,000 works great now. I will start a new post on the only being able to play 4 player games. Thanks all
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Philpot, KY
Aarau