(Topic ID: 196553)

Super Soccer double bonus not scoring

By porkcarrot

6 years ago


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  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by D-Gottlieb
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0Super-Soccer-Score-Motor (resized).jpg
0Super-Soccer-Work-01 (resized).jpg
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#1 6 years ago

I have a Super Soccer that I have almost everything working on, except for the double bonus. On ball 5 it is not scoring double on the bonus and I can't figure out how this is supposed to work. The double bonus light is on, but it doesn't score double.

Should the score motor spin twice to score two thousand for each bonus ball before kicking it?
Which switch controls this, is it even on the score motor?

I verified all the switches on the fifth ball relay are touching properly and I cleaned them. I'm attaching what I think is the relevant part of the schematic, but since I don't know how the double bonus should be working, I'm not sure what I'm looking for.

Any help is much appreciated!

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#2 6 years ago

First and most important, nice avatar, porkcarrot !!! Lee van Cleef is one of my favorite actors. Too bad he got so few good roles.

That area on your schematic fragment near the 3-5 ball adjustment is probably where you need to look but I'd need to see the whole schematic to be sure.

#3 6 years ago

For a 5 ball game, this circuit is the difference between single and double bonus.

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#5 6 years ago

I have confirmed all of those switches are making contact, and it is giving 1000 bonus, but it isn't scoring twice.

#6 6 years ago

My big problem is I don't understand from the schematic which is regular bonus and which is double. (I'm really just learning to read schematics) And more importantly what the double is supposed to do to actually score 2000. Should it be actuating the bonus relay twice?

I know it's tough trying to help without being at the game, but I appreciate any explanation you can provide at all.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from porkcarrot:

I have confirmed all of those switches are making contact, and it is giving 1000 bonus, but it isn't scoring twice.

Switches looking like they're making contact isn't always enough. I've used the jumper wire with alligator clips method on hundreds of games.

Quoted from porkcarrot:

And more importantly what the double is supposed to do to actually score 2000. Should it be actuating the bonus relay twice?

When you say "bonus relay" do you actually mean the Bonus Score (Q) relay?

#8 6 years ago

Yes, the bonus score relay.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from porkcarrot:

what the double is supposed to do to actually score 2000. Should it be actuating the bonus relay twice?

I'm pretty sure that for single bonus, the Bonus Score (Q) relay holds continuously until all the bonus is scored, and only then lets go. The same will be true for double bonus. For single bonus, 1000 will score for each 1/3 motor rotation. For double bonus, 2000 will score for each 1/3 motor rotation. The extra 1000 for double bonus scores through the circuit I highlighted in my post #3.

Do we need to talk on the phone?

#10 6 years ago

Hi porkcarrot
I agree with @HowardR. When the pin scores 1000 points for each bonus then the L-Relay gets activated along "green line". When the pin scores 2000 points for each bonus then the L-Relay gets activated along "green line" AND sneaked in: At the same time along the "red line".
I crossed out "orange marked" --- this stuff has to do with the funny features "3 balls per play" --- "5 balls per play" --- see here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2443&picno=48369 and here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2443&picno=50362 .

I happen to NOT like to work on Score-Motor-Switches, Control-Bank-Relay-Switches, Interlock-Type-Relay-Switches. BEFORE I'd test Score-Motor-Switch-1B (in the red line): I would do a test telling me "Is the right side of red line good ?". I happen to have Jumper-Wires with an mounted switch in the Jumper-Wire --- I can toggle-off the pin (Safety Reasons), establish / clip-on at both sides my jumpering - the switch in the Jumper-Wire is open. I then toggle-on, start a game and at the time I WANT connection: I press the botton / close the "Switch in the Jumper-Wire". I like my Jumper-Wires with switches - I actually have "with push-and-let-go Button" as well as "with toggle-switch".

porkcarrot - want to do (?): Toggle-off the pin - locate the Adj-plug and the wire-color-yellow-black. Clip-on one Jumper-Wire and take the other end of the Jumper-Wire out into the open --- NOT touching metal. Take a second Jumper-Wire - clip-on at "Coil on L-Relay" and take the other end of the Jumper-Wire out into the open --- NOT touching metal.
Ask a friend for helping --- the friend does starting a game - playing - making bonus - then let drain the ball --- YOU hold one of the Jumper-Wires at the insulation in one hand --- and You hold the other Jumper-Wire at the insulation in the other hand --- at "Bonus-Count-Down": YOU hold together the two bare ends of the Jumper-Wires --- big question: Do You get TWO-thousands points per bonus stepped down ? (((You can do this on any ball as You are jumpering some switches)))
IF (if, if) "YES - 2000 points": The right side of "red line" is good --- further testing is needed on the "left side of red line".
IF (if, if) "NO - just the 1000 points": Further testing is needed.

I happen to have an nice JPG about Score-Motor Switches - see the second JPG. Greetings Rolf

0Super-Soccer-Work-01 (resized).jpg0Super-Soccer-Work-01 (resized).jpg

0Super-Soccer-Score-Motor (resized).jpg0Super-Soccer-Score-Motor (resized).jpg

#11 6 years ago

That's great info, thanks guys! I didn't get a chance to work on it yesterday, but I think I will tonight.

#12 6 years ago

Ok, not sure what to make of this. Following Rolf's advice I found that double bonus does work when the adjustment plug is set to three ball. But even connecting the yellow-black to the L relay didn't work in five ball. I'm curious if it could be an issue with the plug, but I find that unlikely. It doesn't look like it has been messed with, but there is no yellow-black on the five ball side (see pic below). Is that correct?

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#13 6 years ago
Quoted from porkcarrot:

Following Rolf's advice I found that double bonus does work when the adjustment plug is set to three ball.

That's because the double bonus circuit is different between the 3 and 5 ball settings. You can see that in my post #3 above.

#14 6 years ago

So is there a wire I can jumper to on the 5 ball side to test if that much is working? If I'm understanding this, there are only 4 switches involved:

Motor 1a: almost certainly working because the other bonuses work.
Relay Q: also almost certainly working
Yel-blk on Motor 1b: I have verified it makes contact and I cleaned the contacts.
SL-blk on CX: I have verified this makes contact and cleaned the contacts. I also jumped this one to make sure it was connected.

What am I missing here?

Edit:
Messing around (not totally sure what I am doing makes logical sense) I decided to see if jumpering from the switches to the 1000p relay did anything. From motor 1a Gr-Yel, it pulsed the relay five times per a 1/3rd rotation, which I expected. From motor 1b Yel-Blk, it never pulsed the replay. Not even when on the fifth ball. Does this mean there is some issue getting power through the 1b switch? Should I be testing at a different point along the line?

#15 6 years ago

Try jumpering over the Motor 1B and CX switches. If it gives 5x bonus then the problem is with one of those switches or their wiring.

#16 6 years ago

I only had a few minutes to look at it last night, but I am pretty confident the issue is with the 1B switch (or possibly the wiring from it to the CX relay). I will investigate that further when I get some more time.

Thank you both for your help, I'm sure I will get this fixed soon. Just from this little issue I feel like I have a much better understanding when it comes to reading schematics and relating them to what I can see mechanically happen. Thanks again!

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Try jumpering over the Motor 1B and CX switches. If it gives 5x bonus then the problem is with one of those switches or their wiring.

I had 5X bonus scoring when in 3 ball mode on the last ball on Top Score (which has the same bonus feature)and I discovered that the motor 1B switch was indeed staying closed.

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