(Topic ID: 293860)

Super Soccer Capacitor/Resistor piece missing and other problems

By RobAquinas

4 months ago


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  • 11 posts
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  • Latest reply 4 months ago by RobAquinas
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#1 4 months ago

I'm finalizing the restoration of a Super Soccer, and the spinners aren't registering properly when they get a good rip. After cleaning the spinner disc and associated relays, I noticed that there was no capacitor, resistor, plugged into the rectifier. I wasn't even sure how they were incorporated, but I found this thread that shows the part.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/transistors-in-em-games#post-5228858

I haven't had any luck finding the part for sale, so the question is, how do I build or wire this myself? rolf_martin_062 you seemed to have studied this before. Your insight would be appreciated.

The other gremlins that I need to work out are:

1) the bonus does not score anything after draining the first ball even though it correctly decrements the bonus module. On ball two, it scores one thousand per decrement instead of two thousand, and on ball three it scores two thousand instead of three thousand per decrement. Oddly, when the red saucer is activated, the bonus scores correctly on all three balls.

2) the bonus unit counts one extra bonus decrement at the end of every bonus count (both outhole and red saucer). I thought this may just be a vibration issue from the force of pushing the bonus count balls past the wire frame, then having the wire frame jump up and land back on the switch. However, if it is, I cannot get the adjustment of the switch right. Maybe it is something else.

Any suggestions and/or assistance are appreciated.

#2 4 months ago

You can build the time delay yourself. The cap, diode, and resistor are readily available anywhere and you should be able to find an old jones plug on Ebay. Here's a diagram of how it should plug into the machine. I don't believe this part will affect scoring on your spinners though - it's just a time delay to prevent other "events" from occurring when the spinners are active. The scoring problem probably stems from the AS relay being improperly adjusted. They can be difficult to dial in.

I suspect the bonus score issue would be the switch I have highlighted on the "Q" relay. That leg of the bonus scoring circuit should fire regardless of which ball you are on. The 4B switch is working since the red hole scores bonus properly. And the other legs of the bonus scoring circuit seem to be working since your end-of-ball bonus increments properly on ball 2 and 3.

The extra decrement could very well be switch adjustment problem on the ball animation unit. The wireform switch actuator should be adjusted as low as possible in the rail. If it is high, it will bounce violently when balls are pushed off of it which could cause the switch to make. Actuate it with your finger to see if you still get the extra decrement.

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#3 4 months ago

sudsy7 thank you so much for the reply. I noticed a diode on your diagram, but I don't see one in the schematics relating to the GX relay. What are the specs on the diode. I have already started sourcing the other parts. You mentioned the AS relay, but I don't see that in the I/J portions of the schematic. Also, I should have clarified, the score is registering fine with the spinners. The bonus progression is not, and I just noticed that the five light bonus meter does not reset to position one at the start of each ball. It appears to move a few positions forward. However, when a new game starts, it does reset to the first position. This leads me to believe it may be the O relay. I have cleaned and adjusted it though.

Relating to the Q relay on the bonus score, I had the same thought. I have cleaned and adjusted it. I even alligator clipped that switch so it was continuously closed, but the scoring still missed the first thousand.

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#4 4 months ago

I see your drawing is creased where the diode is shown. Here is a clear excerpt showing the delay timer component specs.

AS is the type of the relay - not the letter designation. These are the relays that feature discs/wipers as well as switches. It is the "I" relay in this case. If you mean bonus progression is not loading a ball into the backbox animation (and giving you 500 points) when the bonus progression lites get to the end (5 increments) then the problem is likely with the circuit I'm showing in green, which is dependent on one of the switches on the "I" relay - but the fault could be anywhere in that circuit - I just always suspect AS type relays first because they are finicky to adjust.

The bonus light reset circuit is about is easy as it gets - shown in blue. Again, there is a switch in it from the "I" relay which should only be open at the "zero" position (and keep in mind this is a 10-step unit so there are really 2 "zero" positions). The "I" relay should increment until that "I" relay switch opens. Check your switch is not opening at an intermediate position.
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#5 4 months ago

Update: found an adjustment in the Q relay that gives the first thousand in the bonus sequence.

I'm going to work on the I relay. When I increment it manually at a slow or medium pace, everything works normally. When the spinner goes fast, the score reel will put up the correct number of spins, e.g. 20, but the I relay will not count 20 progressions and 4 bonuses. It will only count about half of them. It catches the first few, pauses, then catches the last few.

Thank you for your help.

#6 4 months ago
Quoted from RobAquinas:

I'm going to work on the I relay. When I increment it manually at a slow or medium pace, everything works normally. When the spinner goes fast, the score reel will put up the correct number of spins, e.g. 20, but the I relay will not count 20 progressions and 4 bonuses. It will only count about half of them. It catches the first few, pauses, then catches the last few.

No, it's actually designed to work like that! The spinner scores points on every revolution, that's true - but the "I" relay does not ratchet every time the spinner rotates. Think about it - the game is designed to only put one ball in the bonus animation for each score motor cycle - no way could it keep up with the spinner zinging around so quickly. So, the clever engineers had to "cheat" to make this work so they only allowed a small window of time during a score motor cycle (about 15 degrees) for the "I" relay to ratchet - the remainder of the time it is essentially "frozen" to allow time for a bonus ball to be put in the backglass animation. If you look at the schematics, you see the "J" relay is going to toggle on and off very quickly as the spinner switches open/close (shown in yellow). Now look at the "I" relay (shown in purple) - it has a "J" relay switch in the circuit quickly cycling on/off, but it also has the 1C score motor switch in series with it which is only closed for the first 15-degrees of the score motor cycle, the remaining 105-degrees of the cycle it is open and so the "I" relay cannot ratchet and therefore the bonus lites won't advance. If this game were solid state, you could make the bonus advance in unison with the spinners, but since this is an old lumbering EM, this is what they had to do to make it play right. You would also be able to max out the 10-ball bonus unit with one good shot thru a spinner if it were solid-state, so that wouldn't make the game very challenging either.

EDIT: Just for fun, you might want to put a jumper wire across the 1C switch, tell someone to hold your beer, and let her rip/see what happens!

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#7 4 months ago

I watched some other videos online, and I believe it is operating normally now. I will report back after jumpering 1C - hold my beer!

#8 4 months ago

Can I use a 1n4007 1A 1000V diode as a replacement to rebuild the missing component?

#9 4 months ago
Quoted from RobAquinas:

Can I use a 1n4007 1A 1000V diode as a replacement to rebuild the missing component?

yes

#10 4 months ago
Quoted from RobAquinas:

I watched some other videos online, and I believe it is operating normally now. I will report back after jumpering 1C - hold my beer!

It shouldn't be too dramatic - it can still only add one bonus ball per score motor cycle, but the advance bonus lites should cycle smoothly. However, you can see that same 1C switch will affect several other relays so it will mess up the game in other places. You would need to actually lift (unsolder) the SL+WH and jumper it to the RED-WH wire if you don't want it to adversely affect the rest of the game. I meant this as just a fun experiment thing just to see the advance lites zing along with the spinners and not a permanent change.

#11 4 months ago

Yeah, it was kind of underwhelming. I need to adjust the bonus mechanism to prevent phantom counts, but otherwise, the machine is fully functioning!

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