(Topic ID: 218905)

System 80 Help

By Spyderturbo007

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 111 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by CactusJack
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

0CA19C51-EDBF-4884-92E1-6DD5735A5044 (resized).jpeg
2836C05E-2B70-44B1-AD1F-CA17EBF8626A (resized).jpeg
7093A609-708A-423F-807A-3F6DD7559621 (resized).jpeg
A74EF510-2FB1-461D-9CC2-49498A71A861 (resized).jpeg
925DCEF7-8226-478A-9D64-A2F8CA255798 (resized).jpeg
58A1E568-225D-4713-BD02-191A4B4EB488 (resized).jpeg
866848F0-BCAD-4DED-9823-91EB7F839A0E (resized).jpeg
38C640BA-DDF9-45A5-81B3-295A258DF2F4.jpeg
IMG_9833.JPG
IMG_9834.JPG
Schematic 2.JPG
Schematic 1.jpg
7EF40AA6-D409-40B6-B3AB-2EC4EE2211F4 (resized).jpeg
259F9916-C4D0-443A-96A8-C26CDB25DA06.jpeg
53005957-73FF-47AE-8C2C-1E81BBFE655B (resized).jpeg
AF010D05-7B95-46E7-9D78-B56BC54C6CDC.jpeg

There are 111 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 5 years ago

Good, so your Coil is not shorted, only the diode was. Again, more than likely because someone wired it up backwards. So don't match the direction to the old one. Look up the wire color that is supposed to go to the band on the diode (matches the Bar of the Bar/Triangle symbol on the schematic).

Sure, that's a pretty nice assortment. It also has the 1N4148's that you might use on switches on other SS pinballs if you have them.

Don't you just miss good ole' Radio Shack about now?

#52 5 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I clipped the diode off one side and retested. The coil reads the same as the others now, 3.2ohms.
Can I just get something like this? I'm not sure I'd ever need the others, but the only other way to get the 1N4004 is to buy 250 of them for the same price.
It says it includes the 1N4004 & 1N4007. I'm assuming that I'd just use either the 4004 or the 4007?
amazon.com link »

PM and I will mail you some diodes.

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Good, so your Coil is not shorted, only the diode was. Again, more than likely because someone wired it up backwards. So don't match the direction to the old one. Look up the wire color that is supposed to go to the band on the diode (matches the Bar of the Bar/Triangle symbol on the schematic).
Sure, that's a pretty nice assortment. It also has the 1N4148's that you might use on switches on other SS pinballs if you have them.
Don't you just miss good ole' Radio Shack about now?

If I'm looking at the schematic for the center pop, it looks like I'm going to follow the 888 color (I don't have the chart with me) from the PBDB connector to the pop bumper. Whichever side that connects to, the band on the diode should be on the other side and opposite the 888 wire?

How do I know that someone wired the solenoid correctly? It definitely isn't factory solder and the previous owner got it as a project, so who knows what someone did to it.

Quoted from Turtle:

PM and I will mail you some diodes.

Thanks for the offer Turtle, that's very nice of you. I ordered the pack from Amazon, so no need to send any, but it's bad ass of you to offer.

#54 5 years ago

You can test the diode easily, just to put a bow on the theory.
Meter on diode test.
Probe on each end, and then swap ends.
One way the meter will read open (or 0 or null). The other way it will read between .5 and .7.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#55 5 years ago

Based on the photo you posted earlier, the wire 888 (Slate/Slate/Slate - color chart posted earlier in the thread) should go to the un-banded side of the diode. If the old/bad diode is removed, you do not need to move the wires on the solenoid. You just need to insure that the unbanded side of the new diode goes to the 888 wire (which is the return back to the pop bumper board). You photo cuts off the view of the wire going to the band side of the diode. More than likely, it is the wire going to the fuse for that pop bumper.

#56 5 years ago

So the coil itself doesn’t need to be wired one way or the other?

When I replaced by coils in Safari, they had to be wired a certain way so I assumed this was the same.

EDIT -> Now that I think of it, those were flippers so they have two windings (I think) the hold and the initial flip. So they would have to be wired correctly so the game knew which winding was which. But I’m this case, it’s a pop bumper with a single winding (I assume), so it’s irrevelant as to which wire goes on which side.

Is that correct?

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

So the coil itself doesn’t need to be wired one way or the other?
When I replaced by coils in Safari, they had to be wired a certain way so I assumed this was the same.

A coil WITHOUT a diode it doesn't matter which way it's wired. Also, the game should work without the diode for awhile (this assume the coil driver transistor is still functioning). But I don't leave it off for a long period of time.

#58 5 years ago

If a 2 lug coil I the wires shouldn’t matter but the diode direction will if they’re present on the coil.

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from Turtle:

Also, the game should work without the diode for awhile (this assume the coil driver transistor is still functioning). But I don't leave it off for a long period of time.

It is NOT a good idea to ever operate a DC coil without a diode when it is energized by a solid state driver (Transistor, Darlington Transistor, Mosfet, Etc.) It only takes one activation and then the following Back EMF to destroy a semiconductor. If you get more than a few kicks without failure, go play the lottery!

The above is not so true with earlier Gottlieb SS games as the sling shots, kicking targets, and Pop Bumpers were self controlled. ie, they used a Tungsten Leaf Blade contact to actually feed the power to the coil. No semiconductor was involved for powering the coil. The secondary leaf switch at end of travel would produce the scoring function. But not having a diode on this type of coil drive will still cause all sorts of weird issues from the high voltage spikes it will send down the wire harnesses.

As others (and I) have stated, it is not the 2 lugs of the coil that mater, but rather which way the diode is facing when connecting wires when replacing the coil. Often, people transfer the wires based on position and do not pay attention to the stripe on the diode. Sometimes, they put the coil in upside down (which flips the lugs). Sometimes, a different manufacturer puts the diode in a different direction. Sometimes, someone has made the same mistake, and replaced the diode without moving the wires on the lugs. Each, can result in a diode facing in the opposite direction of adjacent coils which can be misleading. If you don't know which wire goes where, unsolder both, leave them disconnected, and then power up the machine and find out which wire of the two has power (+28VDC, +50VDC, +73VDC etc.) THAT is the wire that goes to the stripe.

#60 5 years ago

I got the diode installed and put in some new 2A fuses. It turns out that I must have done some damage to the BPDB because when I turned on the machine, the center pop fired once. It would then randomly go off when you started a game.

I installed a new BPDB and things seem to be fine. I blew a fuse one time, but that was after hitting the button on the board to test the pop about 30 times in quick succession. I put in a new fuse, played 6 or 7 games and everything seemed fine.

The last issue I'm having is that some of the LEDs are on even when the game is powered off at the switch. It's almost like there is a power leakage past the switch, but how is that possible?

#61 5 years ago

Try a #47 lamp instead. See if those positions perform correctly.

LEDs require very little current to emit light. Once you turn the power off, there is power remaining in the capacitors for the power supply. A normal incandescent lamp would drain that power off instantly. With an LED, it can take a while. With no 5V present to control turning off the transistors driver IC, it's possible to have a transistor not fully off.

However, if you see the 47 dimly lit with power on and the lamp supposed to be off, yes, you could have some leaky transistors.

#62 5 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

The last issue I'm having is that some of the LEDs are on even when the game is powered off at the switch. It's almost like there is a power leakage past the switch, but how is that possible?

If those LEDs are on for more than 5 minutes than this is a scary situation. If so, then I would highly recommend unplugging the machine when not in use. Finally I've never seen a power switch become "leaky". The power switch is a mechanical contact, so they either stick or don't work.

#63 5 years ago

Ever since I noticed they were on, I've been unplugging the machine when I'm not playing it.

As soon as I plugged it in last night the LEDs came on, so I'm pretty sure something weird is happening.

Quoted from CactusJack:

However, if you see the 47 dimly lit with power on and the lamp supposed to be off, yes, you could have some leaky transistors.

When I send out the boards, will this get resolved, or do I need to look elsewhere?

#64 5 years ago

Which lamps/Leds?

Have you checked continuity from the ground plug pin to exposed metal?

Has the line cord or plug been replaced? It could be wired backwards (power switch is disconnecting neutral (white wire)).

#65 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Which lamps/Leds?

They are from Titan and are labeled as Flat Dome 6.3 volt.

Quoted from CactusJack:

Have you checked continuity from the ground plug pin to exposed metal?

I have not. Do you mean put the meter on the ground pin on the cord and then touch something metal in the cabinet?

Quoted from CactusJack:

Has the line cord or plug been replaced? It could be wired backwards (power switch is disconnecting neutral (white wire)).

I replaced it a few days ago when the machine was shocking me while playing. I posted above what I did, but I'm not sure if it's correct.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/super-orbit-pops#post-4448510

#66 5 years ago

I meant, which lamp positions on the game?

Yes, lowest ohms scale, ground peg to lockdown bar, coin door, etc.

#67 5 years ago

Oops. The most prominent one is the Double Bonus light where you normally find a shoot again.

#68 5 years ago

I set my meter to ohms. The lowest was 200.

Ground Peg to Lockdown Bar = 1.1
Ground Peg to Coin Door = 0.9

#69 5 years ago

Appears to be properly grounded.

#70 5 years ago

Is your house wiring okay? Because I agree with @cactusjack that it sounds like it's getting powered up through ground.

#71 5 years ago

The circuit it’s plugged into was installed by a licensed electrician. I hired him to install additional outlets in the garage when we moved in.

I plugged in my outlet tester and it says it’s wired correctly.

Did I wire the cord incorrectly?

#72 5 years ago

I did not mean it was getting power through the line cord (although I have seen that before). Instead, I expected it to be 1 if two things. Either there was no earth ground, or that neutral and hot were reversed.

Was there a servixe outlet in the game? If so, try your outlet tester on it.

#73 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I did not mean it was getting power through the line cord (although I have seen that before). Instead, I expected it to be 1 if two things. Either there was no earth ground, or that neutral and hot were reversed.
Was there a servixe outlet in the game? If so, try your outlet tester on it.

Excellent idea!

I checked it before I left for work and it showed hot / neutral reversed.

So it appears as though I need to swap the Blue and the Brown on the filter. I'll do that when I get home from work.

Thanks!

#74 5 years ago

I forgot to report back. You were 100% correct CactusJack. I swapped the wires around and all the lights are out when the machine is powered off. The Double Bonus light is ghosting, but that's an easy fix.

The last issue I have are two of the pop bumper lights. They don't come on. I've tried new bulbs and verified that they are hooked up. Is there a way to test the socket with a meter?

The bulbs seem to twist in securely. I have the same issue with two of my Alien Star pops, but wasn't sure where to start since everything seems normal.

#75 5 years ago

All depends on if the pop bumper lights are a feature lamp (controlled by a driver) or simply a GI lamp.

For both, you can use your meter and verfiy you are getting power to the two bent tabs on the underside of the playfield. For GI, you are testing for AC volts. For the feature lamp, DC. Both, around 6v.

#76 5 years ago

They are a feature lamp, going on and off with switch hits. I'll check later today when I get home. As always, thanks!

#77 5 years ago

It turns out that apparently the sockets were bad. I was getting voltage at the wires, but nothing at the socket. I pulled the pop bumpers apart, which was fun because I've never done that before, and replaced the sockets.

They both work now, but aren't as bright as the one in the center. I'm not sure if that's normal or not, but it seems odd since they are all getting the same voltage (~7.12V).

#78 5 years ago

What's the pitch supposed to be on this game? I bought new levelers and legs from PBR and can't get it any higher than 5.3 degrees. I checked and the floor is level.

#79 5 years ago

You may need 3" leg levelers then. Not sure what the pitch if the game is supposed to be, unfortunately. I would assume closer to 6 or 6.5, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

#80 5 years ago

I’m back.

I was playing yesterday and all of a sudden the displays went crazy. I lost sections of each digit. Turning the game on and off a few times and they came back.

Then I started to get a really loud buzz through the speakers. Turning it on and off a few times and that seemed to go away.

I played another game and in the middle, the game froze and locked up.

Now when I turn it on, I get playfield lights and that’s it. No displays and no buzz.

I put my meter on the COM on the power driver board and tested each TP.

5v = 5.2V
8V = 8.9V
42V = 31.9V
60V = 50.3V

I’m not sure if it’s normal, but some of the stuff on that board get really, really hot. I think I could cook an egg on CR7 if I wanted to.

Or maybe it’s time to just send all the boards out?

#81 5 years ago

If the PS hasn't been rehabbed, then it's high time.
You can send me all of the boards if you'd like.
I'll rehab or fix what needs, and verify working what doesn't.
--
Chris Hibler
http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact/

#82 5 years ago

Would throwing the power supply board from Alien Star in Super Orbit for testing hurt anything?

I think that’s probably a good idea to send you everything.

If I send them to you, do they need to be in antistatic bags? I’m not sure I have more than one or two large enough bags.

#83 5 years ago

Juat to follow up, if I unplug J3, the TP voltages for TP1 and TP2 appear normal.

As soon as we plug in J3 the voltages drop.

#84 5 years ago

You can also pack boards in aluminium foil as a sub for anti static bags.

1 week later
#85 5 years ago

How do I tackle these things? I’ve seen where people say to replace them, but I’m not sure what I need. Do I just remove the second one and replace it with a single cap?

Thought I might do that while the boards are out being worked on.

7EF40AA6-D409-40B6-B3AB-2EC4EE2211F4 (resized).jpeg7EF40AA6-D409-40B6-B3AB-2EC4EE2211F4 (resized).jpeg

#86 5 years ago

You can add the rating for those two caps together and replace with a single cap.
IIRC, those are both 6800uf caps. I don't recall the voltage.
6800 + 6800 = 13,600uf. A 15,000uf cap, rated the same or higher voltage as the two caps may be substituted.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

1 month later
#87 5 years ago

I'm back!!

I got my boards back from Chris today and he indicated that I needed to take a look at Q18, Q20 & Q32 because they were all blown. If I'm reading the manual correctly, then Q18 is L17 (Left Pop Bumper), Q20 is L19 (Right Pop Bumper) and Q32 is L31 (Right Roll Over).

Is that correct? If so, how do I test these to make sure they aren't going to cause any more problems?

The two pop bumpers were giving me issues before and I was able to get them working by replacing the socket, but they weren't as bright as the center bumper. I'm assuming since the transistor was blown?

Schematic 1.jpgSchematic 1.jpg

Schematic 2.JPGSchematic 2.JPG

#88 5 years ago

Bump because I really want to play some Super Orbit!

#89 5 years ago

Make sure that the lamp sockets for those lamps aren’t touching anything but the two wires that go to them. For the pops, make sure those craptastic lamp socket leads aren’t touching the metal of the pop bumper bracket.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#90 5 years ago

That's all I needed. I'll check them again, but I replaced the pop bumper lamp sockets and made sure the plastic protector things were slid up all the way. I'll re-check them and the other lamp socket tonight.

Thank you.

2 weeks later
#91 5 years ago

So I got my boards back and ended up having to buy a new power supply board and sound power board anyway, but at least it works.

It appears that none of the 10 point switches function now. I think they are all 10 points, but they don't seem to be labeled in the manual, so I can't be 100% sure. I'm thinking they are since they are just the random single switch - behind the rubber switches. I'm not sure what I'm looking for on these schematics, so I'm hoping someone can help?

Not sure if these are the right pages or not?

IMG_9833.JPGIMG_9833.JPG

IMG_9834.JPGIMG_9834.JPG

#92 5 years ago

Yes, rubber rebound switches are usually 10 points and are all wired in parallel.

With power off, check for continuity across them. If you have a very low ohm reading, one is touching. Maybe not the points, but the 3rd hold back blade in the middle is probably resting on the wrong blade.

#93 5 years ago

I did a little more investigating. Looks like I have a whole pile of switches that are out.

I tested 42 by pulling up on the flippers and 52 definitely works.

When I enter switch test it comes up with 60 then 62. Then it waits for me to do something.

38C640BA-DDF9-45A5-81B3-295A258DF2F4.jpeg38C640BA-DDF9-45A5-81B3-295A258DF2F4.jpeg

#94 5 years ago

This keeps getting weirder. None of the pop bumper switches work in test mode, but all of them fire the pops when pressed and two out of the 3 score. The 3rd one fires the pop, but doesn't score.

I'm trying to upload a video of it right now, but my phone isn't cooperating.

Got it uploaded.

#95 5 years ago

Spoon switch on pop bumpers triggers the pop bumper driver board. The movement of the plunger actuates another leaf switch which is the scoring switch in the sw matrix. Look for a broken blade. Look for a broken wire. Not just on the dead switches but also working switches in the same column or row.

#96 5 years ago

Sweet. I got the 10 point switches working correctly. There was one of them that was stuck closed. It’s weird that the game didn’t score 10 points when started, but opening that switch and now all the 10 point switches work.

Looks like the last problem is the center pop not scoring when lit. The switch and wires look fine to me. I gave them a tug and nothing fell off. The switch opens and closes correct.

Where do I go next? Thanks!

866848F0-BCAD-4DED-9823-91EB7F839A0E (resized).jpeg866848F0-BCAD-4DED-9823-91EB7F839A0E (resized).jpeg

58A1E568-225D-4713-BD02-191A4B4EB488 (resized).jpeg58A1E568-225D-4713-BD02-191A4B4EB488 (resized).jpeg

925DCEF7-8226-478A-9D64-A2F8CA255798 (resized).jpeg925DCEF7-8226-478A-9D64-A2F8CA255798 (resized).jpeg

#97 5 years ago

May be the germanian diode on the terminal strip. Each switch in the matrix has one.

#98 5 years ago

How would I go about testing the diodes? I’m assuming diode test on my meter, but what should they read?

#99 5 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

How would I go about testing the diodes? I’m assuming diode test on my meter, but what should they read?

Yes, Diode Check on a DVM shows the voltage drop across the diode. So, for a normal diode, you will typically see a number close to 0.700. For some Schottky it can be very low, like 0.200. I can't remember where the diodes fall that Gottlieb used but it will be in that range. You should get the voltage drop with the Red lead to the unbanded side and the black lead to the band. When you reverse your leads, you should read infinity (like the leads were in the air). If you get a reading below 0.100, chances are, the diode is shorted.

So, what you are probably looking for is one that reads much higher than 0.7 in both directions.

With all other switches open, you can always connect a jumper across the diode in question and retest the switch. The diodes prevent a switch closure from causing other "ghost" switches if other switches (like Drop Targets) are already closed in the matrix.

#100 5 years ago

Thanks so much for all your help. I’m in Chicago for work the rest of the week, but I’ll get them all tested this weekend and report back.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 2.99
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 83.00
Electronics
PinballReplacementParts
Electronics
From: $ 175.00
Electronics
Cobra Amusements
Electronics
From: $ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
PinShield
Protection
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 111 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/super-orbit-pops/page/2 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.