(Topic ID: 256799)

Super Mario Bros. Gottlieb minor issues - looking for input


By orlandu81

7 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by latenite04
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 days ago

Hello Pinside!

I am new to this group, I usually spend a lot of my video game online time over in the KLOV forums. I just obtained a Super Mario Bros. pin, my first one, from a fellow Pinside member. It is working well overall, but there are some minor things I'm looking to adjust and there is no mention of the issues I'm seeing in the manual.

First Issue - Often times when I get the multi-ball, especially with 3 balls at once, the balls will get "stuck" and the next ball in queue will not feed into the launcher. I have to fish out all 3 balls and drop them in one at a time to get it to start releasing the balls again. Does something need to be loosened or tightened? The wiring under the playfield is clean and tight, no obvious issues noted.

Second Issue - The pop bumpers work, but one of them doesn't pop out very far so its almost as if it is not popping at all. I am hoping perhaps I can lubricate it to get it to do its full pop radius, or is the component shot and need to be replaced?

Thanks in advance for the help, I'm having a blast with this machine. Too bad I'm out of space or I would want more!

-Orlandu81
Instagram: orlandusarcade

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#2 7 days ago

Never lubricate a pop bumper. It may just need a new clean coil sleeve & the parts cleaned.

#3 7 days ago

Super Mario Brothers = A gateway drug for arcade collectors to become pinball collectors.
Congrats on your fist pin.

#4 7 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Never lubricate a pop bumper. It may just need a new clean coil sleeve & the parts cleaned.

Thank you! I will take a look at it later this week and give it a nice cleaning and see if that gives it more pop.

#5 7 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Super Mario Brothers = A gateway drug for arcade collectors to become pinball collectors.
Congrats on your fist pin.

Thank you! I sure hope its not a gateway drug...I am maxed out in terms of space with 11 cabinets and 1 pin. No basements in Southern California

#6 7 days ago
Quoted from orlandu81:

Thank you! I sure hope its not a gateway drug...I am maxed out in terms of space with 11 cabinets and 1 pin. No basements in Southern California

By the way, welcome to Pinside.
I recognize your avatar and user name from over on KLOV.
I know you know your way around arcade games which is a pretty good background to have moving into this.
Pinball machines for the most part are not as intimidating as they look as far as working on them goes.

Like Rarehero said, do not use lubrication for the pop bumper.
The first thing I would do is take the glass off and lift the play field up to check out the coils for the pop bumpers.
It could be a variety of simple things that fixes this.
Before you even get started taking anything apart check to see if anything is loose (nuts, bolts, brackets etc).
A lot of nuts and bolts have a tendency to come loose over time and it's good to tighten all that stuff back up.
I periodically check the underside of my machines for parts that have come loose.
After that I would check the solenoid(coil) and see if the plunger moves freely by hand or if it has a little drag compared to the other pop bumper coil.
It could probably use being taken apart and cleaned anyway, so you may want to go ahead and do that.
Things to look for would be the plastic coil sleeve on the inside of the coil (for warping) and the end of the plunger for mushrooming.
The coil heats up during play and if it gets too hot it can warp the coil sleeve and create drag on the plunger.
The plunger itself can also create drag as it wears out. Over time when the plunger hits the coil stop enough time, the end of the plunger can mushroom out and cause drag.
If its mushroomed out you can either grind the edges at an angle to get rid of the the mushrooming, or just buy a rebuild kit.
These things as well as a good cleaning should probably fix your problem.
You might also check the wires soldered to the coil and see if they are loose, cold solder etc.

I've never owned a Super Mario Brothers, so I'm not all that familiar with the ball through, ball eject mechanism or shooter mechanism.
When I have had this problem in the past with other machines it was one of the following.
1) Bad switch or loose switch in the ball through.
2) Shooter mechanisms was slightly loose and not hitting the ball dead on. I.E. one ball would make it up the shooter lane ok, but when two backed up in there it didn't have enough power to make it up the shooter lane because it was hitting the ball at a slight angle rather than dead on.
3) Low power to the machine. If you have too much stuff running on the same circuit, things like flippers, auto plunger etc are weak. I had this issue when I had too many machines running on one circuit and balls would back up in the shooter lane of my Guns N Roses.
4) You might also check the coil for the shooter mechanism. Same rules apply as above for the pop bumper as far as cleaning, rebuilding etc.

I'm sure some others guys will chime in that own this machines with suggestions.
This place is great as far as people offering help (a lot of wisdom on here).
Good luck, and congrats on the new pin.
Cheers
Kent

#7 7 days ago
Quoted from orlandu81:

Thank you! I sure hope its not a gateway drug...I am maxed out in terms of space with 11 cabinets and 1 pin. No basements in Southern California

I started with arcade games & KLOV, too...once you go pinball, those cabs are gonna start to dwindle so you can get more pins. It’s inevitable.

I think I had 20 something vids at one point, and while I loved them & the nostalgia attached to them...once I started getting pins, I was really PLAYING the pins, and not the vids so much. I’m still as good at Donkey Kong as I was when I was 8...but with pins, you see yourself learning and growing as you play more - and due to the randomness it’s always a different experience.

I’m down to 5 vids. My Super Pac & Mario Bros each have the Arcadeshop multi...so that lets me have lots of favorites with less space taken. Q*Bert & DK Jr. dedicated. Pac cocktail at work cuz I ran outta room at home lol.

#8 7 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I started with arcade games & KLOV, too...once you go pinball, those cabs are gonna start to dwindle so you can get more pins. It’s inevitable.
I think I had 20 something vids at one point, and while I loved them & the nostalgia attached to them...once I started getting pins, I was really PLAYING the pins, and not the vids so much. I’m still as good at Donkey Kong as I was when I was 8...but with pins, you see yourself learning and growing as you play more - and due to the randomness it’s always a different experience.
I’m down to 5 vids. My Super Pac & Mario Bros each have the Arcadeshop multi...so that lets me have lots of favorites with less space taken. Q*Bert & DK Jr. dedicated. Pac cocktail at work cuz I ran outta room at home lol.

Same here.
I've got a rather large collection of arcade machine (80+ cabinets).
One day I got the bright idea that I needed a couple of pinball machines to "round out" my home arcade.
Now I'm up to 30+ pins, FML.

#9 7 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

By the way, welcome to Pinside.
I recognize your avatar and user name from over on KLOV.
I know you know your way around arcade games which is a pretty good background to have moving into this.
Pinball machines for the most part are not as intimidating as they look as far as working on them goes.
Like Rarehero said, do not use lubrication for the pop bumper.
The first thing I would do is take the glass off and lift the play field up to check out the coils for the pop bumpers.
It could be a variety of simple things that fixes this.
Before you even get started taking anything apart check to see if anything is loose (nuts, bolts, brackets etc).
A lot of nuts and bolts have a tendency to come loose over time and it's good to tighten all that stuff back up.
I periodically check the underside of my machines for parts that have come loose.
After that I would check the solenoid(coil) and see if the plunger moves freely by hand or if it has a little drag compared to the other pop bumper coil.
It could probably use being taken apart and cleaned anyway, so you may want to go ahead and do that.
Things to look for would be the plastic coil sleeve on the inside of the coil (for warping) and the end of the plunger for mushrooming.
The coil heats up during play and if it gets too hot it can warp the coil sleeve and create drag on the plunger.
The plunger itself can also create drag as it wears out. Over time when the plunger hits the coil stop enough time, the end of the plunger can mushroom out and cause drag.
If its mushroomed out you can either grind the edges at an angle to get rid of the the mushrooming, or just buy a rebuild kit.
These things as well as a good cleaning should probably fix your problem.
You might also check the wires soldered to the coil and see if they are loose, cold solder etc.
I've never owned a Super Mario Brothers, so I'm not all that familiar with the ball through, ball eject mechanism or shooter mechanism.
When I have had this problem in the past with other machines it was one of the following.
1) Bad switch or loose switch in the ball through.
2) Shooter mechanisms was slightly loose and not hitting the ball dead on. I.E. one ball would make it up the shooter lane ok, but when two backed up in there it didn't have enough power to make it up the shooter lane because it was hitting the ball at a slight angle rather than dead on.
3) Low power to the machine. If you have too much stuff running on the same circuit, things like flippers, auto plunger etc are weak. I had this issue when I had too many machines running on one circuit and balls would back up in the shooter lane of my Guns N Roses.
4) You might also check the coil for the shooter mechanism. Same rules apply as above for the pop bumper as far as cleaning, rebuilding etc.
I'm sure some others guys will chime in that own this machines with suggestions.
This place is great as far as people offering help (a lot of wisdom on here).
Good luck, and congrats on the new pin.
Cheers
Kent

Thanks for the information Kent, I can't tell you how helpful it is. The learning curve with pins is insanely sharp for me right now as I know very little, but I am well versed on the arcade cabinet side of the hobby. I will look at the pop bumper closely later this week or tonight, and report back. It is good to have these minor issues so I can learn!

On the ball through issue...this is the most annoying problem. Your explanation is helpful, and I know for sure it's not 3 and 4 based on my review of the coil for the shooter last night...and the pin has its own dedicated circuit so not low power. I'm betting it is number 2...but I bought a new switch for the ball through to cover my bases with #1 though just in case

#10 6 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Super Mario Brothers = A gateway drug for arcade collectors to become pinball collectors.
Congrats on your fist pin.

Lol. Super Mario Bros. was my first pin too. Recently traded up to a Star Wars comic art after 4 years with Mario. Enjoy, it’s a great beginner machine.

#11 6 days ago
Quoted from No_Pickles:

Enjoy, it’s a great beginner machine.

I genuinely think it holds up well in my collection. I love it, guests love it, and it sits beside my attack from Mars and White Water.

System 3 games don’t get a lot of love, but they’re built like tanks, and ULTRA reliable. Great way to get your feet wet in Pinball. A few things I’ve learned:

—The posts are held in with loctite, so if you try to unscrew them, you’ll likely sheer them clean off. Me, being lazy, I kept them in and cleaned around them. I’ve heard people heating them up underneath with a soldering iron to loosen the loctite, but I’ve also heard it doesn’t work as well.

—The flipper rubbers MUST be the “thin” style, specifically for use with Gottlieb games. If you use standard flipper rubber, you’ll slowly hack away at the artwork Right about the flippers since it’ll cause the Ball to plow into the wood.

—the ball trough design is rather poor. It doesn’t have enough switches for each ball, and it has a tendency to get little divots in it where the balls rest that cause hangups. If you’re getting hangups, and balls aren’t ejecting properly, file the tracks smooth with a metal file. This game is a bit of a pain to do that with because of the connector that runs the LED board on the apron. Just be careful you don’t pull out any wires.

Have fun with it!

#12 6 days ago

Thanks everyone for the support! Funny to know that this is a "starter" pin and I had no idea haha.

A quick update on the ball getting stuck issue. I learned that the Coil - solenoid #A-26451, which is the coil that is used for ball release and outhole, does not always engage and release the lever that allows the next ball to pass through (it works around 90-95% of the time). Is it safe to say I need to replace this coil? I see it here: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-26451. If so, i'll buy it and replace it, then report back. Anyone not agree with this assumption?

#13 6 days ago
Quoted from orlandu81:

Thanks everyone for the support! Funny to know that this is a "starter" pin and I had no idea haha.
A quick update on the ball getting stuck issue. I learned that the Coil - solenoid #A-26451, which is the coil that is used for ball release and outhole, does not always engage and release the lever that allows the next ball to pass through (it works around 90-95% of the time). Is it safe to say I need to replace this coil? I see it here: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-26451. If so, i'll buy it and replace it, then report back. Anyone not agree with this assumption?

Also get familiar with using Steve at pinball resource. He stocks a lot of gottlieb parts and is much cheaper than Marco. Only thing is he is old school and only takes checks and you have to set up an account. Also get a Manuel and right down every part number so when you call you will have it ready for him and not get yelled at haha. You will need to buy coil sleeves and maybe the springs for the pop bumper. Get extra and do them all at once.

#14 6 days ago
Quoted from orlandu81:

Thanks everyone for the support! Funny to know that this is a "starter" pin and I had no idea haha.
A quick update on the ball getting stuck issue. I learned that the Coil - solenoid #A-26451, which is the coil that is used for ball release and outhole, does not always engage and release the lever that allows the next ball to pass through (it works around 90-95% of the time). Is it safe to say I need to replace this coil? I see it here: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-26451. If so, i'll buy it and replace it, then report back. Anyone not agree with this assumption?

Coils very seldom ever go bad,Just replacing the coil will not help.

#15 6 days ago

Remove the playfield glass and then remove the playfield apron.Do this with the power off,You will see a coil there and I’m guessing it just needs a good cleaning and remove the coil clean the coil sleeve inside that coil.After so many plays gunk builds up and needs to be wiped off do not use any sprays/chemicals just use a dry rag.

#16 4 days ago
Quoted from Gumby510:

Also get a Manuel and right down every part number so when you call you will have it ready for him and not get yelled at haha.

I’ll just post a Manuel here to save you time

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#17 4 days ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Remove the playfield glass and then remove the playfield apron.Do this with the power off,You will see a coil there and I’m guessing it just needs a good cleaning and remove the coil clean the coil sleeve inside that coil.After so many plays gunk builds up and needs to be wiped off do not use any sprays/chemicals just use a dry rag.

So a quick update, thanks to everyone for the encouraging posts! I did take apart the coil and the sleeve was quite dirty so I cleaned it, as well as the other coil sleeves under the apron. The problem still persists, however, I am noticing now that intermittently the Shoot ball mechanism doesn't fire...similar to the mechanism that releases the ball. Both of these issues happen infrequently, roughly 5% of the time, but still annoying as my son can't fix it when it happens.

So I'm guessing it's not the coil(s), it must be something loose or perhaps both of those mechs share the same microswitch and the switch needs to be replaced. I will open the machine again over the weekend to see if there is a link between these two mechs because they seem to be having the identical intermittent issue.

It is worth noting that outhole ball return wireform was literally just replaced by the previous owner prior to me obtaining it...although, the wire does look to be doing its job, I guess it is possible that it needs to be manually adjusted. I was able to capture a video of the first issue happening in real time (see short 12 second video below)...any other thoughts or tests I can do when I open the playfield next time?

#18 4 days ago

It looks like the ball release and outhole both use fuse f23, could be a solder connection to that or an issue with the fuse. I've got a pdf of the manual if you need it.

#19 4 days ago
Quoted from latenite04:

It looks like the ball release and outhole both use fuse f23, could be a solder connection to that or an issue with the fuse. I've got a pdf of the manual if you need it.

Thank you, I have the manual, was planning on checking it out over the weekend but you found exactly what I was looking for. I will check the solder connection and reflow it if needed first, then will replace the fuse and see. Very helpful!

#20 3 days ago

Hello again Pinside!

Re: my two original problems, I have diagnosed problem 2 successfully. Now I am looking for advice from this group on how to get it fixed. Problem 1 is still in process.

My second problem was the kicker on the left side was popping but it wasn't popping out far enough, almost as if it is being restricted. After reviewing the part, and fully cleaning it, I discovered that Link Assembly is broken (see pic 1), the side that connects to the plunger has a chunk missing from it and the bolt missing as a result. As a quick repair (I assume by the previous owner), there is a small key ring inserted in place of the small bolt that acts to help lower the plunger but because the link isn't fully intact, the plunger does not pull the link assembly all the way down.

My question is...how do I fix this? The bolts that hold the link assembly to the plunger and to the kicker seem to be permanent, but I assume they are not. If they are not permanent, I simply need 1 bolt and the link assembly. Or do I need a whole contraption or maybe just the link assembly and plunger (like pic 2)?

Please let me know your thoughts because once I get this link assembly replaced, all will be good on this issue.
pic 1 (resized).jpgpic 2 (resized).jpgpic 3 (resized).jpg

#21 3 days ago

I am not sure if the kicker uses the same plunger as the flipper which you reference, but typically I think they are different. Unfortunately, I can't get to my machine to confirm, but I think you need an assembly such as this...

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-16700-GTB

You could always try just a plunger such as...while reusing your kicker arm.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/22425

Also, I would highly recommend confirming the part numbers via the manual if possible. The parts I linked were based on the "look" of your image.

#22 3 days ago
Quoted from setzkor:

I am not sure if the kicker uses the same plunger as the flipper which you reference, but typically I think they are different. Unfortunately, I can't get to my machine to confirm, but I think you need an assembly such as this...
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-16700-GTB
You could always try just a plunger such as...while reusing your kicker arm.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/22425
Also, I would highly recommend confirming the part numbers via the manual if possible. The parts I linked were based on the "look" of your image.

Hello! Thanks for your reply. I spent time last night trying to locate this part number in the manual and was unsuccessful. On your first link, I saw that one last night from Marco but the shape of the kicker looks different than mine so I was not convinced it was the right part. The plunger in your second link looks to match mine exactly...and I'm happy to buy it except I am not sure how I would attach it to my existing kicker arm. Are those bolts permanent?

#23 3 days ago

Your best friend to have that can help with parts and this stuff that you can’t find in the book will be Steve young at pinball resource.

#24 3 days ago
Quoted from orlandu81:

Hello! Thanks for your reply. I spent time last night trying to locate this part number in the manual and was unsuccessful. On your first link, I saw that one last night from Marco but the shape of the kicker looks different than mine so I was not convinced it was the right part. The plunger in your second link looks to match mine exactly...and I'm happy to buy it except I am not sure how I would attach it to my existing kicker arm. Are those bolts permanent?

The link is held on with a roll pin. You can punch them out with a hammer and pin punch set or an arbor press. You will probably want a new pin for the new link. If you don't plan to do this often I would recommend paying a bit extra for the piston and link together and save the trouble. The old piston may be mushroomed on the end if you had a lot of extra play anyway. I would second sending an email to pbresource to order, they will have what you need and it's a rite of passage ordering from them .

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