The super bands are hard as a rock and the clear rings are like white rubbers on steroids. Both went too far in opposite directions. I know the folks making these things are doing testing, but the player community has not warmed up to them at all. Pinball is a game of skill. These rings (especially) and flipper rubbers significantly increase the luck factor. If I want to play games of chance, I'll go to the nearest CEC thanks. At least I'll get some tickets for my efforts there.

I put the Saturn IFPA rubbers on my location Ripley's because it's already bastardized and they fit the theme, bizarre. I won't put urethane rubbers on any of my other games. At home or on location.

The reason weaker players like them is because they improve shot accuracy, due to being so friggin hard. It's like the difference between hitting a hardball with a wiffle bat or a real wooden bat. Of course the harder one is going to be more accurate and feel stronger.

Whatever you gain in shot accuracy is more than offset by loss of ball control. Yes, they are grippy, but they play way too different than conventional rubbers. If you use these on all your games, your chances of improving your skills are decreased. Enjoy the improved accuracy because your ball control skills will likely never improve significantly. You get a little bump in your score now, but that's it. If you want to keep improving your skills, don't put them on all your games.

Have you guys been reading this thread?

And that's just from the first page. All three of you seemed to have missed my point anyway. They will briefly give your scores a slight bump, but you'll never become a Bowen if you have them on all your games. Do you want short term satisfaction, or do you want to continue to become a better player? Having urethane rubbers on all your games will not make you a better player long term. I'm not saying don't use them. I'm just suggesting using them in moderation.

The saturn rings come in 4 different hardness. 1, 2 , 3 and IFPA approved. They had trouble with the florescent ones breaking early, but the IFPA rubbers on my location Ripley's have held up fine for many months.

The super band folks said they were going for black rubber durometer rating. I don't care what they read on the durometer, they don't play the same as black rubbers. You can easily test this yourself by putting a super band on one flipper and fresh natural black rubber on the other. Then drop a ball from the upper playfield to each flipper and see which one bounces more. The difference will be noticeable.

Steve will be the first to admit that he'll likely never win PAPA, but he knows how a game should play. He was playing my T3 one time and stopped in the middle of ball because he said the kickback wasn't working right. Told me to give him some tools. I did. He fixed it, then played some more.

So you think super bands should be used to deter folks from playing a particular game.

If that's an endorsement, it's a negative one. I don't want to put anything on my games that repels players.

You should've added a *winking* smiley at the end. d

Not in A division.

Why do you think they would leave out A division? I can think of a couple of possible reasons.

Make sure to let everyone know beforehand which games have them and which don't. The gameplay difference is huge and league is usually casual enough so that guys won't check first. Either let everyone know before starting or leave a small note on the apron of games that have them. I got bit by this big time on a league night a while back. Most games took me 2 balls to adjust to the change, leaving me only one ball to do any damage. Most frustrating was that the host's games were all minty as hell and were games I was very familiar with. I know i would've done better with conventional rubbers. Instead I had to relearn minty games I had played thousands of times before elsewhere.

If you have any other urethane rubbers, including the little post rubbers, you should let folks know about those too. They also change gameplay significantly.

Did you have old hard black rubbers on there before? That would do it. Unless you have your game pitched at 9 degrees, new black rubbers will bounce the ball over just fine.

Depending on the kickout (and pitch, obviously), super bands will bounce the ball over most of the time. But not a big bounce and not as reliably as conventional black rubbers. And as the slot machine VUK coil warms up, the kickout is less predictable. If you're playing in a tourney or league, you don't trust the bounce with super bands. Flip or live catch the kickout. I wouldn't recommend super bands on a TZ for tourney or league play. Folks are gonna get pissed. That bounce is a god given right (in the eyes of many players anyway d.