(Topic ID: 97407)

Super bands....or not..???!!!


By Breaking_Dad

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by phillymadison
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There are 312 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 7.
#201 5 years ago

I put superbands on 9 of my pins (all eras), and have been using them for about a week. I'll break this down by attribute:

POWER INCREASE. I assume is due to the higher density of the urethane. This change is a positive for my 2 EMs. The ball is too fast on IM and MET, though. I keep bricking the first graveyard drop target. Making the ramps is almost too easy. Verdict: fine for EM and early SS, bad for DMDs.

ROLLING RESISTANCE. This one is the dealbreaker for me. The ball slows down a lot more while rolling across the flipper, which is why drop catches are so much easier. But if I try to do a rolling pass, the ball loses momentum and doesn't make it over to the other flipper. Maybe a few hundred plays will change this, but I doubt it.

BOUNCE. I don't use bounce passes much, but I do use tip passes. Since the ball bounces off the tip much less, I'm seeing a lot of tip passes fail. Sucks. And by the way, DO NOT use the urethane post rubbers near lane guides or especially on the post between the flippers (if the game has one). It sucks so bad to have the ball hit that post directly, and then watch it weakly fall off to the side.

APPEARANCE. Super-bands look awesome, and I love the color variety. I wish there were some UV-reactive colors.

CONSISTENCY. Super-bands play the same no matter what color I use. That's good.

I plan to leave the super-bands on for league play this month, so I can see what others think. But I will probably be putting them up for sale soon.

#202 5 years ago

The bounce pass ability is dependent on the game. Easy on my T2, but not so much on my FH or MM. I still like them as they perform like purple or black rubber.

I posted a vid of ball 1 game play on T2... Super bands look killer!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/adriandmd/

It is the 2nd video that is horizontal.

#203 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

PAPA has machines with superbands at their competitions, and that's all I need to have a clear conscience about playing with them.

Not in A division.

Quoted from mhs:

Most will have regular rubber. A few games in C-div will have superbands. AFM is one that I know of for sure. Future Spa is another. B-div may have one game, but I don't remember off hand. A-div will not have any.

Why do you think they would leave out A division? I can think of a couple of possible reasons.

Quoted from swampfire:

I put superbands on 9 of my pins (all eras), and have been using them for about a week...

I plan to leave the super-bands on for league play this month, so I can see what others think.

Make sure to let everyone know beforehand which games have them and which don't. The gameplay difference is huge and league is usually casual enough so that guys won't check first. Either let everyone know before starting or leave a small note on the apron of games that have them. I got bit by this big time on a league night a while back. Most games took me 2 balls to adjust to the change, leaving me only one ball to do any damage. Most frustrating was that the host's games were all minty as hell and were games I was very familiar with. I know i would've done better with conventional rubbers. Instead I had to relearn minty games I had played thousands of times before elsewhere.

If you have any other urethane rubbers, including the little post rubbers, you should let folks know about those too. They also change gameplay significantly.

#204 5 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

POWER INCREASE. I assume is due to the higher density of the urethane.

I barely understand physics but my guess is that the grippier urethane facilitates the transfer of more energy from the flipper to the ball.

#205 5 years ago
Quoted from accidental:

I barely understand physics but my guess is that the grippier urethane facilitates the transfer of more energy from the flipper to the ball.

I think that would entirely depend how you flip. From a cradle yes. On the fly I would think red rubber's kinetic energy transfer would be higher.

#206 5 years ago

This debate could go on seemingly without end. I will say this from experience. I have Super bands on all my games. I decided last night to change Tron back over to regular blue rubber since according to Mark most or all of the PAPA17 B div games will have regular rubber. My first game on Tron was 29M and my second was 100M. The game was not harder, just different. Most notable difference was on drop catches and inlane flipper passes. On drop catches the timing was more critical due to the more bounciness of the rubber. When going through an inlane and holding the flipper up to pass it over to the other flipper, it was actually easier. With the less tacky surface of the rubber there was less friction and the ball passed over with little or no nudging of the machine needed.

Bottom line for me is that Superbands play great and look great. They are not necessarily easier, just different.

#207 5 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

When going through an inlane and holding the flipper up to pass it over to the other flipper, it was actually easier. With the less tacky surface of the rubber there was less friction and the ball passed over with little or no nudging of the machine needed.

THIS is why I'm switching back to plain rubber.

1 week later
#208 5 years ago

I just put these on my avengers, huge improvement, shots seem much more precise. I've not got them on IM, LOTR and TAV. I'm putting them on my other three next time I place an order.

#209 5 years ago

Hell yes.
Every game I have played with these installed is more fun.
That is the whole point, correct?

#210 5 years ago

Thought they were cool. As I should, I tried to make some of these about 6 years ago. Talked with a manufacturer and everything. I was going to use a springier material (think more like those supper-balls from the 70's with glitter in them). In the end, there was no way for me to make them and not go broke or charge way too much.

FFWd to this summer, I bought a variety and put them on many of my machines, ranging from '79-'96. That was about two months ago.

I think they are beautiful, however, I am not satisfied how they play (for many of the same reasons posted in this thread) Oh, one of them snapped into a noodle after less than 10 games.

This week I started to take them off (which was harder than putting them on!) and gave a way my first pair today for my friend to try without spending the bucks.

#211 5 years ago

OMG... Glitter Super Bands would be awesome!

#212 5 years ago

I wanted to do glow in the dark glitter bands and bands that would glow under black light. What is funny is that my plan was to go the other way and make them more bouncy than current flipper rubber.

#213 5 years ago
Quoted from BumperMcBaulhogh:

This week I started to take them off (which was harder than putting them on!) and gave a way my first pair today for my friend to try without spending the bucks.

Use a hair dryer for a minute to heat them up. Easy on and easy off.

#214 5 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

Use a hair dryer for a minute to heat them up. Easy on and easy off.

LOL, I'm sure the operators I know would love that on location.

1 week later
#215 5 years ago

I'm not so sure about these things.... I bought several based mostly on things I read in this thread but so far I have only put them on what I consider to be my more difficult games : Blackwater 100 & Fathom ... IDK yet maybe I will warm up to them but so far they seem to make gameplay even more difficult / just curious anybody else have that experience ?

#216 5 years ago

Forgive me, I didn't read the entire thread.

I just tried these on my Fathom. Incredibly difficult to install but I did get them down into proper position. With less than 20 hits, one of the bands slipped off and flew across the room.

I like the hair dryer idea and will test further on my more modern games with different bats.

#217 5 years ago

I used a tiny spray of windex...they slid right on with no issues at all. I really like them on my TAV and IJ.

#218 5 years ago

So I know tje Saturn Rings have been written off but I got some anyway, the IFPA maroon ones and put them on my IJ and NGG. They got on as easy as a normal flipper rubber, so that's s plus. Seem pretty similar to the greens I was using. Anyway no splits yet *crossers fingers*

#219 5 years ago

Put them in hot water for a couple of minutes, that's enough to slip them on (dry, of course).

These are really nice, much more precision and ease of catching the balls,almost like cheating

#220 5 years ago

I'd like to try these, at least a set, but I bounce pass all the time. Like all the time. It may be the manuever that I use the most out of my whole arsenal of manuevers. If these things are as dead as I read on the bounce passes, I just can't bring myself to try them.

#221 5 years ago

Recently, I had a chance to play a nice Funhouse that had superbands on it. I noticed that I was completely unable to hit Rudy from the upper flipper on that game, despite everything seeming correct as far as flipper alignment and strength go. Every shot I attempted was late, and would hit the trapdoor instead.

This past weekend, I played a different Funhouse, and it did not have superbands. I was able to hit Rudy with impunity, just like I would expect.

Not sure if the superbands were to blame here, it is just a theory. I'd be interested in seeing if anybody else experienced aiming issues when using superbands on an upper flipper.

#222 5 years ago
Quoted from neurokinetik:

Recently, I had a chance to play a nice Funhouse that had superbands on it. I noticed that I was completely unable to hit Rudy from the upper flipper on that game, despite everything seeming correct as far as flipper alignment and strength go. Every shot I attempted was late, and would hit the trapdoor instead.
This past weekend, I played a different Funhouse, and it did not have superbands. I was able to hit Rudy with impunity, just like I would expect.
Not sure if the superbands were to blame here, it is just a theory. I'd be interested in seeing if anybody else experienced aiming issues when using superbands on an upper flipper.

I had the exact same problem on that Funhouse, it was very frustrating. I've never had that problem on another Funshouse. I'm not sure if it was the superbands or something with the flipper but that Rudy shot was damn near impossible to hit directly. It actually had me a little bit out of character bitching about the games in that tournament round.

#223 5 years ago
Quoted from neurokinetik:

Recently, I had a chance to play a nice Funhouse that had superbands on it. I noticed that I was completely unable to hit Rudy from the upper flipper on that game, despite everything seeming correct as far as flipper alignment and strength go. Every shot I attempted was late, and would hit the trapdoor instead.

Quoted from EricR:

I had the exact same problem on that Funhouse, it was very frustrating. I've never had that problem on another Funshouse.

This as absolutely false. I have Super Bands on my funhouse and I can hit Rudy constantly. Are you two sure your just not out of sync on the shot? I have SB on my Funhouse and Centaur and both don't play different enough for me to notice a real difference. I do agree that they help the control a bit, but they don't alter things enough in my opinion to worry about. The guys that are crying are the ones that play tournament and use tons of tricks. If your going to complain about the SB on Funhouse what about the fact that the ball when shot out of the cellar hole doesn't bounce off the right flipper and land on the left with SB on.

#224 5 years ago

For what its worth my game playing has improved and so has the wife, and kids.
Metallica is the pin we have them on, and find myself making shots on a more consistent level.
Absolutely no problem putting them on, they were real easy to slide right on. We are happy with them. I also put the super band clear mini posts, and airballs have calmed down a lot. I wont use rubber no more.

#225 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

This as absolutely false. I have Super Bands on my Funhouse and I can hit Rudy constantly. Are you two sure your just not out of sync on the shot? I have SB on my Funhouse and Centaur and both don't play different enough for me to notice a real difference. I do agree that they help the control a bit, but they don't alter things enough in my opinion to worry about.

Hey, it was just a theory, hence why I was asking. As I said, I played a different one a week later and did not experience the same issue. Obviously there are more variables at play than just the Superbands, but this was the one visible, obvious difference.

#226 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

This as absolutely false. I have Super Bands on my Funhouse and I can hit Rudy constantly. Are you two sure your just not out of sync on the shot? I have SB on my Funhouse and Centaur and both don't play different enough for me to notice a real difference. I do agree that they help the control a bit, but they don't alter things enough in my opinion to worry about. The guys that are crying are the ones that play tournament and use tons of tricks. If your going to complain about the SB on Funhouse what about the fact that the ball when shot out of the cellar hole doesn't bounce off the right flipper and land on the left with SB on.

What is absolutely false, the fact that we both had the same issue with the same shot on the same machine?

That wouldn't seem to be the case since we were both there and you weren't. Like I said before, I don't know what role if any superbands played. I think there was something wrong with the flipper personally, its just felt way off in a way that the bottom flippers didn't. But I can confirm it wasn't just him "being out of sync on the shot" because it was happening to everyone there.

#227 5 years ago

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh with you guys. All I can say for sure, is the superbands did not affect the play on my Funhouse. I can make the shot easily. But, who knows, it could be a myriad of things that could have caused that and quite possibly the super bands also. I personally am just not seeing the huge difference people are complaining about, but I also am not a pro player.

#228 5 years ago

Shots have more power with super-bands, no question about it. "Less bounce" is also hard to argue with. Whether those changes are good or bad is up to you. Personally, I'm worried that I'll alienate my bounce-passing friends.

#229 5 years ago
Quoted from BumperMcBaulhogh:

LOL, I'm sure the operators I know would love that on location.

They would because these things do not wear like rubber. >400 games on my newly restored T2 and they still look mint.

#230 5 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Personally, I'm worried that I'll alienate my bounce-passing friends.

LOL, Thank you for thinking of us "bounce passers".

#231 5 years ago

superbands are super...I used to hate on them, until I installed them on all of my machines

#232 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh with you guys. All I can say for sure, is the superbands did not affect the play on my Funhouse. I can make the shot easily. But, who knows, it could be a myriad of things that could have caused that and quite possibly the super bands also. I personally am just not seeing the huge difference people are complaining about, but I also am not a pro player.

No worries, I agree that generally I haven't seen a big difference on the games with superbands. Like everyone says, they are a little less bouncy and a little more grippy but that's about it.

#233 5 years ago
Quoted from Ballsofsteel:

superbands are super and I installed them on all of my machines

My friend's entire collection of a dozen or so DMD games have superbands on them and after playing those various titles I have since installed them on all of my machines. I don't plan on removing them anytime soon.

#234 5 years ago

I haven't noticed any real difference in bounce passing with my machines with Superbands. Is that a major concern for others? Very weird if it is.

#235 5 years ago

new reluctant convert but I now have superbands on my 3 games. They play & look great... took a few tries to get the feel of them.

#236 5 years ago

Bounce passing is an issue on my Twilight Zone - especially from the slot machine. With rubber bands, you could safely bounce pass directly from the slot machine eject and cradle on the left flipper - which meant you could make almost every shot. Changed to super bands and the bounce pass barely makes it across meaning you can't cradle it and have to hit it straight away. Im changing back.

Having said that, I also have them on my STLE and they're great. I think because its such a fast game.

#237 5 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Bounce passing is an issue on my Twilight Zone - especially from the slot machine. With rubber bands, you could safely bounce pass directly from the slot machine eject and cradle on the left flipper - which meant you could make almost every shot. Changed to super bands and the bounce pass barely makes it across meaning you can't cradle it and have to hit it straight away. Im changing back.
Having said that, I also have them on my STLE and they're great. I think because its such a fast game.

That's weird because mine never used to bounce off the right flipper to the left one but it does since I put on superbands. It used to bounce up from the right flipper and SDTM but now it bounces nicely to the left flipper.

#238 5 years ago
Quoted from pauloz:

That's weird because mine never used to bounce off the right flipper to the left one but it does since I put on superbands. It used to bounce up from the right flipper and SDTM but now it bounces nicely to the left flipper.

Did you have old hard black rubbers on there before? That would do it. Unless you have your game pitched at 9 degrees, new black rubbers will bounce the ball over just fine.

Depending on the kickout (and pitch, obviously), super bands will bounce the ball over most of the time. But not a big bounce and not as reliably as conventional black rubbers. And as the slot machine VUK coil warms up, the kickout is less predictable. If you're playing in a tourney or league, you don't trust the bounce with super bands. Flip or live catch the kickout. I wouldn't recommend super bands on a TZ for tourney or league play. Folks are gonna get pissed. That bounce is a god given right (in the eyes of many players anyway d.

-1
#239 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Did you have old hard black rubbers on there before? That would do it. Unless you have your game pitched at 9 degrees, new black rubbers will bounce the ball over just fine.
Depending on the kickout (and pitch, obviously), super bands will bounce the ball over most of the time. But not a big bounce and not as reliably as conventional black rubbers. And as the slot machine VUK coil warms up, the kickout is less predictable. If you're playing in a tourney or league, you don't trust the bounce with super bands. Flip or live catch the kickout. I wouldn't recommend super bands on a TZ for tourney or league play. Folks are gonna get pissed. That bounce is a god given right (in the eyes of many players anyway d.

Old rubbers were red. Didn't use TZ in the last Tournament but will likely use it for the next one. It plays more like a TZ should with the super bands on it than it did with the regular rubber.

3 months later
#240 4 years ago

read a bunch of this thread. not all 5 pages. guess it is really a matter of preference.

i'm a competition player so want to improve.

i tried super bands last night on my wh20 last night. 1st time on one of my machines but i have played with them on other machines.

i found them to have much less bounce. they kill the balls momentum. dead bounce is more challenging due to this

but overall i think it DOES make the gameplay easier and for me i don't like that. i want to continue to improve and be challenged more and more. i think superbands are a step backwards

for eg if a ball is coming down an inlane you can just hold up the flipper and the ball will trap on it pretty consistently. also the kickout from the wh20 scoop is way easier to control. dont like it. i prefer the challenge. my tilt is very sensitive and pitch is up there but my 2nd game i got over 1/2 a bill. (not enough to get on the board but a pretty decent game.

i will try a bunch more games but if it keeps up i will be switching back to rubber

#241 4 years ago

360 for me... back to using standard rubber. They were cool on TS for making ramps easier.

#242 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

read a bunch of this thread. not all 5 pages. guess it is really a matter of preference.
i'm a competition player so want to improve.
i tried super bands last night on my wh20 last night. 1st time on one of my machines but i have played with them on other machines.
i found them to have much less bounce. they kill the balls momentum. dead bounce is more challenging due to this
but overall i think it DOES make the gameplay easier and for me i don't like that. i want to continue to improve and be challenged more and more. i think superbands are a step backwards
for eg if a ball is coming down an inlane you can just hold up the flipper and the ball will trap on it pretty consistently. also the kickout from the wh20 scoop is way easier to control. dont like it. i prefer the challenge. my tilt is very sensitive and pitch is up there but my 2nd game i got over 1/2 a bill. (not enough to get on the board but a pretty decent game.
i will try a bunch more games but if it keeps up i will be switching back to rubber

got vacation jackpot for the 1st time on wh20 with superbands last night. not sure i can blame them or not but either way im going back to rubber.

#243 4 years ago

not a fan sorry!!!

tried and true regular rubber thank you!!!!

#244 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

read a bunch of this thread. not all 5 pages. guess it is really a matter of preference.
i'm a competition player so want to improve.
i tried super bands last night on my wh20 last night. 1st time on one of my machines but i have played with them on other machines.
i found them to have much less bounce. they kill the balls momentum. dead bounce is more challenging due to this
but overall i think it DOES make the gameplay easier and for me i don't like that. i want to continue to improve and be challenged more and more. i think superbands are a step backwards
for eg if a ball is coming down an inlane you can just hold up the flipper and the ball will trap on it pretty consistently. also the kickout from the wh20 scoop is way easier to control. dont like it. i prefer the challenge. my tilt is very sensitive and pitch is up there but my 2nd game i got over 1/2 a bill. (not enough to get on the board but a pretty decent game.
i will try a bunch more games but if it keeps up i will be switching back to rubber

That's interesting, I would assume 'pro' players would want more controlled play and in most cases that's what you get from super bands. Maybe it's more about what you know?

#245 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

they kill the balls momentum. dead bounce is more challenging due to this

Yeah got burned trying to do dead flipper passes.
To me its reinventing the wheel......i don't see why you would.

Bottom line is they change the way the game plays.If you're ok with it,go for it.
I've been playing to long to make that kind of change.

#246 4 years ago
Quoted from neurokinetik:

Recently, I had a chance to play a nice Funhouse that had superbands on it. I noticed that I was completely unable to hit Rudy from the upper flipper on that game, despite everything seeming correct as far as flipper alignment and strength go. Every shot I attempted was late, and would hit the trapdoor instead.
This past weekend, I played a different Funhouse, and it did not have superbands. I was able to hit Rudy with impunity, just like I would expect.
Not sure if the superbands were to blame here, it is just a theory. I'd be interested in seeing if anybody else experienced aiming issues when using superbands on an upper flipper.

My Funhouse has Superbands, and it's pretty easy to hit Rudy. Sounds like something was weird about the upper flipper on that particular game.

#247 4 years ago

I have had mixed results with superbands. You pretty much have to try them for awhile, then go back to new rubber. There will be some pros and cons to either in any application. Once tested, install the ones you like better and there you go. Worked for me anyhow and I am by no means a professional competition player.

#248 4 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

hehehe, my wife won't let me take them off my games. She loves them

Well, there is one reason to use them.

#249 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

That's interesting, I would assume 'pro' players would want more controlled play and in most cases that's what you get from super bands. Maybe it's more about what you know?

i guess in a turny it would be better to have that control but for home use i prefer having to earn the control so i can improve my game. if i practiced on super bands then went to a turny with rubber id be at a disadvantage. but i guess overall it is better to have practice with both as they show up in turnys more and more.

#250 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Yeah got burned trying to do dead flipper passes.
To me its reinventing the wheel......i don't see why you would.
Bottom line is they change the way the game plays.If you're ok with it,go for it.
I've been playing to long to make that kind of change.

and now they have saturn rings i guess. dont know anything about them. ill be ordering 3 blue rubbers for my wh2o next order

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