If the "feel" is the same, but they last longer....that's what I am looking for. Would be nice for all colors to play the same. I shouldn't have to sacrifice game play because I want to put a different color ring around the flipper bat to match a game…my 2 cents

I just hope this doesn't make standard rubber obsolete. That would suck.

This is encouraging. From the aesthetic and durability perspective these things are great. I just can't get over how different they play.

Yes Red, Green, Purple, Black all played differently but there was consistent behaviour across the spectrum (excepting unusually crap batches) in terms of properties other than bounce. Softer rubber bounced more, harder was 'deader', but switching from black to red or vice versa never made an appreciable difference to WHERE shots were on the flipper, nor did they add different 'spin' imo, they added more or less spin but it was a predictable relationship. ie - the game shot the same, but ball handling was tougher with soft rubber.

These urethane products are doing something completely different - and it's not bounce related. I've played enough with them to know they shoot harder, shots are in different spots (earlier on the flipper almost universally), live catches are simpler, and inlanes behave very strange for lane passes. These sentiments are echoed by more than just me - people enjoying them for 'improved control' and 'easier shots' are disconcerting to me. Not so much because I disagree, but because we're changing parts of the game needlessly. Where I'm very concerned is in tournament play as you don't get the luxury of time to adjust to something like these rubbers which I do feel are radically different for ball handling. They aren't more or less difficult, there is just a difference bewteen rubber of any colors and these urethane ones that goes further than simple 'bounciness'

I agree we need better rubber products, but for me not at the cost of flipper fundamentals. If people want to buy rubber for improved control and higher scores thats fine, but I personally don't.

I have nothing but respect for the organization... it was the seeming elitist tone of the post that set me off

I've got enough rubber rings that it would be a long time before I swap out to Super Bands for my pins. The only exception might be for the little bitty rings that tend to split easily.

I kind of hope it does actually.

Especially if it keeps evolving (which I'm sure it will).

The only rubbers I actually like to put on. lol... They are awesome.

I've seen this a few times (not you specifically) where even mentioning PAPA in a thread garners a bunch of hostility and 'namedropping' call outs from folks.

The fact is PAPA is one of the largest tournament and pinball associations going, and yes, the elite players of the world participate in their events with their machines. Some of us do try to improve our play by mimicking some of the PAPA tournament machines. You could replace the word PAPA with any number of tournament acronyms or call outs, but PAPA is alot easier to type as opposed to "IFPA Sanctioned Tournament Events" or the like.

These associations are our NFL, or NHL, or NBA.... Since I'm Canadian, if the NHL comes out and says they'll be switching from pucks to tennis balls next week, you can be damn sure I'd start playing with a tennis ball when i'm fully suited up on the ice. Am I ever going to compete with NHL players? Not likely, but I'm not going to use equipment that isn't in their rulebook in 'real play'. Can you have fun playing hockey with a puck, a ball, wadded up tape, empty cans, etc...? Absolutely, but ultimately the 'sport' end of it follows the lead of the elite.

I have seen the future, and it is Super-Puck!
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Didn't they have pucks with some electronics in them so they could track them for TV?

That went over REAL big with the fans at home.

As someone who has been coaching sports for most of my life I could not disagree with this more if I consciously tried. I spend way too much time trying to decontaminate kids of the bad habits they see baseball players exhibit on TV. Kids who won't catch a ball with two hands, who won't hold a bat with two hands, who won't run out a pop fly, who think running over catchers and second basement is "heads up play". Without making any statements about pinball specifically I can say with 20 years of experience that 99% of athletes need to follow the lead of the fundamentally sound rather than the elite. The elite are so talented that they often succeed despite their practices rather than because of them.

You missed 99% of the argument - no one is talking about behaviour here. You are passionately arguing a point that I'm 100% in agreement of, except I never brought up anything to do with behavior or the 'role model' aspect of elite players because its not even in this debate. And when I say sport what I mean is the 'sport aspect' of pinball.... not sports. I'm trying to separate the competition pinball from hobbiest pinball.

Discussion of habits, actions and attitudes are completely irrelevant to my (or the super band or PAPA adoption) argument. We're talking about parts, pieces, equipment, etc. Not careless play, poor sportsmanship, or showboating. The fact that kids are using a glove at all to catch the ball is my point - if MLB started using.... i dunno pillow cases to catch, you'd be switching kids to use them too... Oh and they will still refuse to use both hands

Please forget that ever happened. Gary Butthead at his finest.

Love the way they play not to mention how they look.
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Been playing with SUPERBANDS on my games since I got back from expo.

I cant speak for anyone else but I can say for sure...

THAT THESE THINGS ARE AWESOME.

I love the way they feel, they way they control the ball, and the way they look in the game. As has been reported, every color plays the same... and the aesthetic bling it adds to your game is a plus of course.

At $4/game its a no brainer. Every machine you own needs a set of these babys.

I especially enjoy the difference on my F14. Keeps the ball in the upper playfield longer than I used to average.

Great product. Highly recommend.

Well it was just the word "fad" that got me going. PAPA didn't have much to do with it - I always enjoy the PAPA videos and have hopefully learned something from it

Don't take the tourney guys too seriously...it's kinda their job to suck the fun out of these games. If that's the price of greatness - I'll continue to suck and enjoy pinball. ....(with Super Bands, wooo!)

You and me both bro!

Whether it's from PAPA or not, being a 'fad' is a valid concern. Just because you or I like something doesn't mean it won't be a fad. It takes more than a handful of hobbiests to bring something permanently mainstream

But there is nothing "mainstream" about pinball. It literally is a handful of hobbyists....in the larger scheme of things.

The two things are completely interrelated. That's why you get 11 year olds refusing to play with facemasks in hockey and trying to sneak onto football fields minus their leg pads.

The true IFPA A divisions players can do their thing because they have the decades of play behind them and the talent to do it. The rest of us need to play fundamentally sound pinball and part of that is having the rubbers as consistent as possible between home and competition. We just won't have the ability to adjust instinct in 15 minutes of practice time.

I personally think flipper "rubbers" should be formulated out of human skin. I was just thinking...Tiki is really losing his ass on this MM reproduction. He could turn his personal loss (his ass) into our gain. From the amount of natural material that has recently fallen into his lap (or under his lap....off his ass) he could make flipper rings for years!

Bought them for my Gottlieb EM. I'm a noob, they don't fit lmao. Maybe I can cut them.

You need the 3/8" size bands for Gottlieb EMs....they are currently available in all 9 colors. PM me your address and I'll help you out.....

Thanks,
Joe

Have put on all my machines....really like them, excellent ball control, and seemingly more "power" to the upper playfield areas, have to temper a bit with the lower, slower shots, but still easily manageable. Not to mention they look amazing......so far, so good...mark

How the hell do you get them on the flippers? Bout to go crazy.

Joe showed me the 'pro' technique at expo. Hook the ring on the back end of the flipper, put your thumbs in the ring and push it forward out over the tip. Then make sure you snug it down to the proper height after it's around the flipper bat.

I've had them on a machine for a couple weeks now, and I like them. They seem more 'accurate' to me, the shots seem to hit the same trajectory more reliably. Although, I can see why the 'pros' might not like them, the bounces are more unpredictable as they are with rubber, especially the dead flipper. The live catches seem easier though.

Eric said it correctly. Pre-stretch them a bit. Stand to the side of the machine, put the Super-Band over the shaft end of the bat, push forward with your thumbs over the tip. This is much easier than pulling the band towards yourself.

DrJoe, when are the post rings going to be available?

Very easy to get on! Really like them.........pre-stretch a few times, use a little muscle pin nerds.....

Again, attitude isn't my point and the reason they aren't interrelated is that I think theres more to the problem than kids wanting to be like Sydney Crosby. Celebrities have always been around, its only recently (last 10 or so years?) they've replaced appropriate idols and heros in most kids lives. I grew up watching great hockey players that didn't wear helmets, or visors, or neckguards, or long gloves, but when it came time for me to step on the ice there was no question between me, my parents, and my coach - I wore the damn things without questioning it... no options, no discussions. It's not the NHL's fault kids idolize these guys so bad any more than it's Miley Cyrus's fault that more and more 16 year olds are publically acting like tramps. Instead of blaming the people at the top of an industry or sport I think it's more appropriate to point fingers at proper parenting and instilling proper values in children.

Back to the topic at hand, Sydney Crosby still uses a stick to bat a puck around a regulation sheet of ice with a finite number of players on the ice. If any of those fundamentals of the game changes at the NHL level, you can be sure the rest of us will seriously consider following suit.

Theres top level pinball players that wear gloves to play, or listen to music while playing - this is more related to what you are talking about. Actions that are taken to enchance a players game (or maybe image). These actions have squat to do with actual pinball and are attitude based. I choose to not wear gloves or listen to music while playing because i find it more enjoyable not to, but I'm still wanting to play the same machine with the same rubbers, the same tilt, the same ruleset...

Wether one likes these or not I have to give kudos to Joe for backing his product. He contacted me in lieu of the damage to the one we were trying out and offered to replace it.

Why would you compare it to anything outside of pinball? By this logic nothing but day to day activities are mainstream, Mainstream is obviously a relative term - mainstream doesn't mean its on the evening news. Theres mainstream things in all hobbies regardless of how mainstream the actual hobby is in society and to argue otherwise is ridiculous. The 'italian bottom' aspect of a machine (Two flippers, two slingshots, two inlanes and two outlanes) is pretty darn mainstream wouldnt you say? Now, my Mom, neighbors, most friends, the President of the USA etc... doesn't give two craps about flipper rubber or whether the layout of new machines look more like GoldWings or High Speed. Doesnt mean within pinball there can't be mainstream things.

Super-Posts(TM) will be available within a week. They match the Super-Bands in color choices, have great rebound, and are very durable. They will be available in the standard 1 1/16" posts, 7/8" fat posts, tapered posts, and two sizes of mini posts (that are now available as the 3/8" and 7/16" rubber rings).

Look for the official product announcement in the coming days. Thank you for your interest in these new products!

Joe

I can't get mine on. Do you make them in a 'Magnum' size?

Put a pair on my JP last night I like them a lot I'll be getting another set for my other table

PAPA overall in the tone of their messages, official and otherwise, has been far less "elitist" than IFPA IMHO.

Maybe you should put your flipper bats in a cold shower, or have them think of the X-man.

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agreed...I put it over the larger area of flipper first, then 2 thumbs inside and stretch it over the smaller end, then slide down for correct placement....pretty easy (except after doing it on 5 games in a row, my thumbs got sore.....wimp, I know...)

So I see super posts coming out....a must have.....what about the fate of slingshot rubber? Guessing that would be a toughy.........mark

I'm afraid I'm going to damage the playfield or bend the rod by doing what you describe.

I prestreched them and they are still are a major pain.

Will go eat some Wheaties and see if that helps... Seriously its the one aspect I hate about these is install, the play great or I would have dumped them.

I hate installing them - but love playing with them. Ordered a set for AC/DC then my entire collection was getting new Super bands. Marco hit it out of the park.

Thanks Joe! PM sent.

Just bought 2 more pins worth today.

They grip a little different but not in a bad way. Like em all the way. Look forward to seeing how well they clean up after they get black grime all over them. Tired of looking at stained rubber flipper rubber all the time. If these puppies clean up as well as expected, I hope all sizes or rings get produced so I can so goodbye to rubba.