(Topic ID: 193638)

Student Prince even NicoVolta couldn't fix - Need ideas


By PinPilot

2 years ago



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  • 20 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by PinPilot
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There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

sp2 (resized).jpg
Johnny Brotherton Student Prince (resized).jpg
step path (resized).jpg
IMG_20170716_192235060 (resized).jpg
IMG_20170716_191934299 (resized).jpg
IMG_20170716_191925758 (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

So Nic was at my house for four hours yesterday, but we weren't able to get S.P. working. I'm super disappointed because I'm certain the problem is simple...

Originally, you could start a game by adding a coin, but the ball count always stayed on ball one. You could play endless ball ones!

Nic thought the ball count unit was sticky, so we rebuilt it, but no change in behaviour. Still always ball 1. In hindsight, I think we should have used a meter to check if the ball count unit was getting power - it isn't.

The match unit had a sticking coil, but we fixed that by cleaning a switch on a score reel.

We took the switches off the index reel in order to clean the switches, and I think that's where we screwed something up. There is a switch there that should send a signal to increase the ball count in the ball count unit, but I can't find a schematic anywhere, online or elsewhere.

Occasionally the ball will advance to ball two or three, but not often. This makes me think its an index reel switch that isn't making proper contact.

What I really don't understand is why it no longer responds to coins being inserted, or the credit button. Only way to get a game going is to manually reset the replay relay under the playfield.

If anybody could chime in here with some advice, or a schematic, I'd sure appreciate it! I'm feeling pretty low right now about pinball in general, and could sure use some good news!

#2 2 years ago

Hi Mark... as mentioned, no need to panic. I'm 97/100 fixing EM's on the tour and three of those were either rewired incorrectly, had wire harness issues, or lacked the time to get deep enough into the weeds. In your case with no schematic, limited time frame, and having rebuilt the ball count stepper (it was physically unable to step up regardless of voltage), score relay, serviced all of the other relays on the motherboard as well as a few motor switches (and identified the player step-up unit as incrementing only partially)... we have improved the overall functionality and are already much closer to getting it resolved.

Main thing we need at this point is a schematic to trace out the paths to the ball step-up unit and credit button. Currently asking around... a friend may have one.

Most typically, this type of issue is a dirty/misaligned motor switch.

#4 2 years ago

I'm guessing you're aware of this, and Nic's link above is probably a better choice anyway, but there are photographs of a schematic in this thread if you need something right now. A bit hard to read, but it is there if you zoom in the browser.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/schematics-student-prince?hl=fredsmythson

#5 2 years ago

Nic, it's exactly my luck that I'd be in the 3/100 group - LOL!

I know that if I keep working, I'll figure this out, even if I have to drag the game all the way to Dallas to Makerspace! But if that's what is required, then drag I shall!

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Toyguy:

I'm guessing you're aware of this, and Nic's link above is probably a better choice anyway, but there are photographs of a schematic in this thread if you need something right now. A bit hard to read, but it is there if you zoom in the browser.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/schematics-student-prince?hl=fredsmythson

The exact thing I need to see, above #15 in the schematic, is missing from the photos! I pm'ed the OP to see if he could re-shoot them, no reply as of yet.

I see where Action Pinball has the schematic, I Googled 4 or 5 pages deep and never saw that! I'd still rather get an online one if possible though.

#7 2 years ago

Hope this is readable.

IMG_20170716_191925758 (resized).jpg

IMG_20170716_191934299 (resized).jpg

#8 2 years ago

Somewhat better view of ball count SU.

IMG_20170716_192235060 (resized).jpg

#9 2 years ago

Thanks CJ... you really picked the right avatar for Pinside, Mr. Quick-on-the-draw.

Mark, this is your ball step-up circuit path. The green checks are the relays I cleaned and gapped... they should be good. Barring the fringe issues like bad solder joints and wiring, let's assume everything is OK to the motor switch.

Check out the lowest switch pair on motor stack 1 (adjacent to the index). It should have a blue-red and a black-red wire attached. Is it clean and opening/closing properly as the wheels go around?

step path (resized).jpg

#10 2 years ago

Also, as another test, the player unit/coin unit portion of the circuit can be bypassed with an alligator clip (BLU-R coming off the score motor switch to R-W attached to the ball step-up coil).

Since we know the player unit needs to be rebuilt and adjusted, always test while in a 1-player game (and ensure the disc is squarely rotated to the reset position... rivets lined up with the wipers).

BTW, if Makerspace trip is in the cards, as an extra bonus I'd be able to show you the full score reel rebuild method and do a mini-class on anything else remaining. It would come in handy since you have 16 reels and many aren't revolving properly.

#11 2 years ago

BIG TEXAS-SIZED THANKS TO Cactus Jack!!! That was the name of a place on Hillcrest Rd. in Dallas back in the day that would serve, um, well, the "age-challenged" back in the 1980's!

Thanks to Nic for the edited schematic. I have no clue what the round thing is either that you put a question mark next to. I got the player unit working fine by tightening the advance springs and cleaning/teflon lubing the contacts. The bakelight board that the fingers make contact with is loose, so I'll need to remove the fingers so I can tighten the two screws that hold it in place. I realize a full rebuild is preferable, but at this point I just want to prove the game is capable of working before digging too far into every unit.

At this juncture I'm emotionally drained after spending another 4 hours on it today by myself. I'm used to being able to fix ANYTHING, but so far these EM's are messing with my juju!

#12 2 years ago

A circle around a switch indicates one located on the score motor. It tells you the cam number and the location within the stack (A being bottom).

#13 2 years ago

And you already contacted Pinball Resource to buy the schematic?

http://www.pbresource.com/mansch.html

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from PinPilot:

At this juncture I'm emotionally drained after spending another 4 hours on it today by myself. I'm used to being able to fix ANYTHING, but so far these EM's are messing with my juju!

I hear ya. Take deep breaths and give yourself some time... no rushing. It will all make sense with a mindful approach and some more practice.

During the tour I spent about four months on the road standing for 12-14 hours a day working on these things. Often without a day in between to rest. Lots of pressure to fix things while staying on schedule because I had no wiggle room across 15,000 miles if something went wrong. It could have been very stressful but the practice of EM maintenance itself is a Zen process if given the time.

Nothing to do but relax and give it the time.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

A circle around a switch indicates one located on the score motor. It tells you the cam number and the location within the stack (A being bottom).

Thanks CJ, that is some damn fine information!

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

I hear ya. Take deep breaths and give yourself some time... no rushing. It will all make sense with a mindful approach and some more practice.

I've always been a fast learner, usually seeing quick results. I'm slowly realizing that this is impossible with EM's. I had a fellow pilot and retired Electrical Engineer stop by my hangar today to inquire as to what I was doing with all the pinball machines. He took one look at Student Prince with the playfield up and said "I ain't touching that with a 10 foot pole!" LOL!

I do have faith that I will acquire the skills necessary to fix Student Prince. But if, perchance, one day, I am able to use those skills to fix Gay Time bingo, I'm certain a much higher level of nirvana awaits.

1 week later
#17 2 years ago

Hallelujah! Student Prince is FIXED!

Johnny Brotherton, of Euless, TX, was kind enough to drive an hour to my house in Granbury to take a look at S.P. He arrived at noon, and the game was fixed by 2:00! I was extremely impressed with Johnny's ability to troubleshoot. He fixed four things:
1. Anti-cheat switch on coin door had rusty contacts - Johnny used an emory board to clean them.
2. One of the switches on the score motor reel was mis-adjusted, causing a switch to always be closed. He bent it to the correct position.
3. The game was intermittent about starting a game, and about kicking out the ball. You could knock hard on the playfield to "fix" it, until it happened again. Johnny started knocking all over the playfield until he determined it was the playfield fuse not making good contact! I would have never suspected it, as it felt tight in its holder. Johnny pulled it out, emoried the fuse holder, re-installed the fuse, and viola - problem gone!
4. Finally, Johnny notice two misadjusted switches on the main reset switch gang. He bent them into place, and......

A 100% WORKING STUDENT PRINCE!!! THANK YOU JOHNNY, YOU ARE THE BEST!

Johnny has a large collection of pins and bingos, and his years of experience really shine when he's working on a machine. If you see him at the Frisco Pin Expo, make sure and introduce yourself - you'll be glad you did!

Johnny Brotherton Student Prince (resized).jpg

#18 2 years ago

Johnny is THE nicest guy in pinball! Glad he was able to get it running. C'mon by the Dallas Makerspace VECTOR Committee one day for some of our EM classes if you'd like to do more.

#19 2 years ago

How do you launch the ball? Poke it with a stick?

sp2 (resized).jpg

#20 2 years ago

No, down in Texas we like to put our .22 in there and literally "shoot" the ball - we call it Pistol Pinball.

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