(Topic ID: 274600)

Stuck Switch (that isn't) Bally Fireball Classic

By bobukcat

3 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by bobukcat
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#1 3 years ago

I'm pretty decent at troubleshooting the switch matrix but this one has me stumped. Working on a buddy's FBC and have it down to a few switches that won't register: Middle Pop Bumper, Top Pop Bumper and On Kicker. Switch test shows 4 (Top Bumper) stuck, I tested the switch / diode / capacitor with a meter and they test fine. I pulled the J2 connector and used a diode to verify that the stuck switch goes away and that all the switches above work properly when simulated with a diode on J2 so I believe the problem has to be on the Playfield. I unsoldered both wires going to the top pop bumper and the game still shows 4 as being stuck, and so am I! The problem doesn't form your standard square or rectangle on the matrix and all the voltages at the switch (from strobes) appear to be good, I also verified wiring from switches to the connector, headers have been replaced (not by me) and look really good including the solder joints under magnification. Suggestions for next steps to take please!

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#2 3 years ago

Your going about this the right way. I would narrow it down further by pulling the cabinet switch connector from the mpu during test. That will tell you if it's possibly a cabinet stuck switch or wire short like a coin chute that is causing the behavior.
given the randomness of the faults I'm thinking a shorted matrix wire in the cable.

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Your going about this the right way. I would narrow it down further by pulling the cabinet switch connector from the mpu during test. That will tell you if it's possibly a cabinet stuck switch or wire short like a coin chute that is causing the behavior.
given the randomness of the faults I'm thinking a shorted matrix wire in the cable.

I just found a couple old posts about weird behavior from the start button and other coin-door switches. The previous owner wired up a credit switch that is adding like 14 at a time and now I'm suspecting that. Thanks for the response!

#4 3 years ago

No change with J3 (coin door switches) removed from the MPU. I'm starting to wonder if the PIA isn't just a little flakey and works with only one return when right on the connector but malfunctions when the whole connector is attached along with the caps, wiring, etc. Otherwise I'm at a loss.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I tested the switch / diode / capacitor with a meter

How did you test your capacitor with the meter?

Quoted from bobukcat:

Switch test shows 4 (Top Bumper) stuck

"04" in switch test is the middle pop bumper, not the top pop bumper.

The capacitors used on these switches have a high failure rate. First thing to do is at the middle pop bumper switch, cut one of the capacitors leads close to the switch solder lug and bend the capacitor away so it's disconnected to see if the 04 stuck switch issue goes away.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

How did you test your capacitor with the meter?

"04" in switch test is the middle pop bumper, not the top pop bumper.
The capacitors used on these switches have a high failure rate. First thing to do is at the middle pop bumper switch, cut one of the capacitors leads close to the switch solder lug and bend the capacitor away so it's disconnected to see if the 04 stuck switch issue goes away.

Yes, middle pop, sorry that's a typo on my part. I drank a bit of bourbon after working on this thing and getting frustrated!

I tested to make sure it's not shorted then just completely unsoldered both wires from the switch so it can't be the cap or the diode.

#7 3 years ago

Are you running switch test mode with *all* balls removed from the machine? One of the outhole trough switches is on the same row as the middle pop bumper.

Schematics don't show them but I presume the On / Off kicker button switches in the centre have capacitors on them?

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Are you running switch test mode with *all* balls removed from the machine? One of the outhole trough switches is on the same row as the middle pop bumper.
Schematics don't show them but I presume the On / Off kicker button switches in the centre have capacitors on them?

Yes, all balls out since I have the playfield up and yes the 2nd trough switch in on the same row - good question.

I believe that only the switches that are on coils (pops & slings) have the capacitors on them, pretty sure the rebounds, rollovers, etc. don't have them but I'm not near the machine now to look. Can have the owner check it later though.

#9 3 years ago

I keep getting a stuck switch message from a missing center coin unit on my FC.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I believe that only the switches that are on coils (pops & slings) have the capacitors on them, pretty sure the rebounds, rollovers, etc. don't have them but I'm not near the machine now to look. Can have the owner check it later though.

It would make sense for the On / Off kicker button switches in the centre have capacitors because they're fast activated switches which the MPU may sometimes not detect otherwise.
The playfield schematic above shows a capacitor on the middle mushroom, but not the left and right mushroom??

Closely inspect all the switches on the "I3" switch return line (orange-black wire). Besides the middle pop bumper, these are the right mushroom, On kicker button and outhole trough switch #3. Clip any capacitors, check the diodes and look for any issues with anything causing shorts on the switches.

Quoted from phil-lee:

I keep getting a stuck switch message from a missing center coin unit on my FC.

You might have a short on the wires which should still be on the coin door for that missing switch. Note the red-green wire is daisy chained across the coin switches so that pair should be connected, the blue wire needs to be isolated.

#11 3 years ago

Wow. This is one of the most complex switch matrix issues I have read. The OP is pretty skilled too. Will keep checking back to see what the issue was.

1 month later
#12 3 years ago

Finally got back to my buddy's house to work on this and the short story is there are three shorted (though they test fine with a meter) caps on the middle pop, top pop and the on kick switches. The mistake I made was I trusted the diagram in the owners manual that shows switch 04 (middle bumper) is the top one and 05 (top) is the middle. I took the time to trace out the switch matrix and start cutting caps relative to that versus the parts diagram and the stuck 4 moved to 5 and finally to 20 (the on kicker). Cutting the caps off each one and then testing with a good cap resolved it. Thank you Quench and everyone here and in the Bally /Stern SS club that helped with input, I appreciate it. I shouldn't have trusted that switch location diagram as it really didn't make sense.

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