Mixing and matching is totally fine. Some LED's and manufacturers are oober bright that you can see from space. The just right kits I like are the Noflix ones but Cointakers are nice also.

I would not buy a kit. The way I do it is I customize my own LED lighting. I buy from PinballCenter in Germany. Cointaker. BC Pinball. Pinballlife. For example. The worm hole insert I chose a custom color changing fast blink from cointaker. For the shield inserts I used 555 teal noflix plus Super flux from PinballCenter. I had ghosting issues with mode inserts. I used cointaker nonghosting LED's for those. I used Cool White 47 3 LED .69 cents for most of the GI around playfield. I used BC Pinball 4x 47 blue frosted LED's for the inlanes. I used 555 Blue LED flashers for inside the BORG ship from Cointaker. Most kits I have seen use yellow for the kickback standup targets . You need to use Orange to match insert perfect. Back box was hard. I used cointaker mini's coolwhite in a lot of sockets to cut down on glare from back box onto playfield glass. Behind Data, I used warm white mini's cointaker. I used Cointaker color changing 555 Slow Fade behind Enterprise and the tracker beam on back box. Behind the words STAR TREK there ar Flashers. I used 555 blue LED flashers from cionTaker, looks awesome. On the back box the crew members red shirts looked spotty with any LED. There you should use 555 incandescent behind the red shirts. I used Cool white Frosted any GI light socket that is insight line of eyes to cut glare. Do your own Kit. It will come out better. Hope this helps. Rob

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Sorry to highjack the thread but I have a question.

I have only seen one source for transparent rubber and that being pinball center. Anybody use any of their rubbers and how have they worked out for you. I only bring this up because they are mentioned as a LED source.

BTW, are there any other sources for the transparent rubber?

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I am not crazy about led's in all machines..but RobKnapp, I do like how you have done your machines (lotr as well)....and i like how you did your sttng (much better than mine).

Thanks chief !

I am pretty sure that I ordered my kit from Marco and it's perfect. It was a cointaker kit when it arrived so they must just sell CT's stuff I guess.

I get the whole "don't buy a kit" thing now...I picked up a TF Pro with a CT kit in it and you could barely see the purple inserts because they sent mini's, etc. But the STTNG is very nice, I don't think you can do better on your own.

I really like my container premium kit. Unfortunately Marco doesn't sell the premium kit. They only sell the regular one.

We would tend to agree. A sample pack with various colors can really let you customize the game and tailor the lighting/colors to what YOU like. See our sample pack here: http://www.niftyled.com/Sample-Packs-c166/ We have given a lot of thought to producing kits but then we feel that the customer just gets what WE think is best, and not what YOU think is best.

Consider buying a sample pack and if you want to PM us, we'd be happy to put together a sample pack that would work best for your game.

We feel that experimenting and testing lights in different ways is part of the fun of "LEDing" your game.

We are also happy to be a resource, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask!

I used the Marco Spec kit, I think they pretty much got it right, there are a few things I would change, but that's just a personal issue with me. And it is totally cheaper than buying the lamps individually. I also got the DM kit from them, I like that one as well.
FYI, be prepared to send a lot of time doing the upgrade, it is a ton of lamps, and you need to pull the subway ramp to get all the new ones installed. I didn't do that since mine is routed and those lamps still work.

Get verification on that from a second person...I think it was Marco but it could have been Mad or PBLife...

Yes Marco uses cointaker kits, at least on the two I bought.

Ok. But be advised that you will need many 555 & 47 LED's that have extension wires leads that go to the LED (flex style ).

For the shields PinballCenter No FlixPlus Superflux are your best option as they are the best for a slower no/off period. So At least entertain ordering 8 (2)extra only need 6 Teal T10 (555) NoFlixPlus SuperFux from the German company for the Shield. You can order playfield insert Kit only. I would look into CoinTaker super bright for the playfield. But you should ask Melissa to include nonghosting LED's to the kit for the mode inserts because they may ghost and she will do it if you ask her. The GI CoinTaker SMD super bright LED sit almost flush with the playfield. Causing the LED to be to Low and will shine in your eyes not good. I would just order 35 .69 cent 3 LED coolwhite 47 from PinballLife they sit almost a 1/2 inch above playfield and project the light out well & will not shine in your eyes. There. So you have Playfield inserts covered. Kit from CoinTaker. GI. Covered 35 3 LED 47 .69 cool white from pinballLife. All you need is back box. You do not want them to bright causing glare . Throw Niftyled a crumb since they commented on your thread. Order there .69 cent 555 Cool white frosted for the back box. I just took off my Back Glass and counted them for you. Order 40. You only need 37. Get 40. From Niftyled. You are done. Save yourself some money and skip the flashers. Or Order a Flasher Kit from CoinTaker. I love LED's and the creative part of making my configuration . But I think if you do as I have just suggested you will save money and your ST:TNG LED conversion will be awesome. Peace.

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I really like what Rob is talking about. I have a few questions, though:

1. Does the CoinTaker playfield kit come with the flexible LEDs that you mentioned needing? The picture on Marco just shows normal bulbs.
2. I love the way you have different colors in the mode inserts. Are those color changing, or are they fixed colors? Are they part of the CT playfield kit? And, are they flex?
3. The colors on your backbox really pop, which is super awesome. Did you put any colored LEDs behind there (besides the tractor beam) to make that happen, or are they all just white?

Thanks!

Cointaker Kits use the type of bulbs that work best in each particular insert (flex, super, 5HP, etc). They make good choices with the colors, but you can do better yourself.

Best thing to do is just order your own bulbs separately....it's half the fun!. If you get confused on what to order, ask them to email you the kit bulb list for your machine. The list provides a good guide when visually comparing, then you can order the colors you want. I used 2LED non-ghosting premiums on most the inserts, Frosted cool white premiums on most the GI & supers on the backbox. There are alot of white inserts on the STTNG playfield, so you can get creative & really make it pop

I used to be a "kit" guy till i started doing my own style....

MY next LED affair will be buying in bulk, and i will probably try the Pinball blub guys for that...

you can do more machines for less money, and do them the way you want... it has been working well so far...

i bought a crap ton of LED's from a buddy of mine, and have gone through them all, and i am jones'in to finish the rest of the SYS80 games up...

the KITS are quite abit more expensive, thatn the bulk route...

Just an FYI, pinballbulbs prices the kits as a result of the cost of what's in them. There's no mark up. If you ordered all the parts separately, you would get the same price. The only reason the pinballbulbs kits are similar prices to say cointaker is because of the added extras you get like spotlights, lightstrips, etc.

Has anybody tried the pinballbulbs kit for the STNG? They apparently use a ROM replacement to eliminate ghosting, as opposed to using non-ghosting bulbs. Any insight is appreciated. Also, is there any published listing of how many bulbs of each specific type and color that one would need for an STNG LED upgrade? Thanks in advance!

Their pictures look Amazing! Mark and James do an unprecedented Job with their Kits.
If its a kit you want. PBB, and CT...if you want to build your own, all vendors will provide loose bulbs, and savings.

Its not a tough decision either way....

My 2 cents.

Art

Based on what I have read here, I may want to "mix and match", but I am having some issue finding the number/type/color of bulbs that seem most natural for the game. I like the look of RobKnapp's game picture, but I am having a hard time deciphering exactly how many of each sort of bulb to get. Thats why the "kit" idea appeals to me. The cost just doesnt, especially if I end up wanting to swap out a few!

I have the pinballbulbs kit in my STTNG and love it. I think I had to swap like 5 LEDs from the kit to something else because I didn't like the look. They did include the non-ghosting ROM.

I hear you.....The "knowledge" plus the time to pick, is the "Value" of a Kit.
Both CT and PBB, have invested a good deal of time to create these, and have been successful to work hard and make available.

Whats Most natural to others, may not be whats right for you.

A pen and paper and about a half hour you can create your own kit.
If you are looking to Brighten the Whole game, Strips, Spots, are available from Venddors, and we carry increased
GI bulbs to make the lighting there soar. All these work.....Even after you finish that, Star Trek needs to have the dimming set to "OFF" or An OCD board from Herg, to cover the nuances of fine tuning this game.

If you are simply looking for a "list" you can try pinballcenter.eu

If you have only one game, a kit is likely your best option, but if you have more, or plan on more, you may want to stock up, and enjoy customizing the game to your tastes.

There is no "wrong", but the work that vendors do, CT and PBB, (sorry Nifty too!) as examples are well worth the money, if you dont want to put the time in yourself.

Overall, you may "error" on the side of $25-$35 in extra bulbs, but you will have a sharper game.
This way you do a "quick count" Or you can buy 350 bulbs for a kit price of $200 Double your needs....and have Fun!

(You can return what you dont use,....but we like if you keep um!)

Art
cometpinball

Can you post some pictures? Which bulbs weren't you happy with, and what did you change them to? I am a bit worried ahoy RobKnapps comments that the GI bulbs in the CT kit lie low and create some glare when playing. Any thoughts? Thanks!

How long did it take you to install the whole kit? Did you need to remove any play field parts - or the underbelly tunnels?

tunnels, no. plastics, yes. a lot of the GI are 44's that are underneath playfield plastics. i remember the upper left side, underneath the borg ramp, being the worst. you also have to remove the wireforms to get to a couple.

also underneath there's a small board or two that are covering up a couple sockets, and your life will be much easier if you unscrew them and let them hang while you change the bulbs. adds maybe 5 minutes, as opposed to 20 minutes of flexing and reaching and grunting trying to reach those sockets with the boards still attached.

I have the pinballbulbs.com ST:TNG kit and it's awesome. See screenshots here:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/leds-where-to-purchase-game-kits-if-its-not-cointaker#post-1211696

It looks more blue in the screens than it does in person...instantly modernized the game and it looks right at home next to Metallica Premium.

Recommended wholeheartedly.

LEDs look brighter in pictures but you get the idea. I can't remember which ones I had to swap out from the kit but here is the order information that I have. I am pretty sure this order was just for STTNG LEDs.

I swapped LEDs when I did a teardown cleaning. There are lots of bulbs under plastics and it does help to at least loosen up the tunnel underneath since there are bulbs directly behind it. I ended up not using the LED strip that came with the kit.

1 x Clear 44/47 Green
1 x Flex 44/47 Red No ghosting Plus+
3 x Clear 555 Warm White
1 x Flex 44/47 Warm White Non-Ghosting Plus+
1 x Flex 44/47 Green No ghosting Plus+
1 x Clear 44/47 Cool White
1 x Flex 44/47 Blue Non-Ghosting Plus+
2 x Flex 44/47 Purple Non-Ghosting Plus+
1 x Flex 44/47 Pink Non-Ghosting Plus+
1 x Frosted 555 Blue No Ghosting Plus+
1 x Frosted 555 Green No Ghosting Plus+

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I appreciate your wanting a ready to go kit. There is some personal taste. Some games are just too bright for me. Perhaps you could tell one of the smaller shops (one more willing to deal with you) what you have in some of your other games.

My personal tastes are warm white and not too bright. I have Cointaker 2 LED warm whites under my playfield in all the inserts, but #47 incandescents in my GI. The game looks really nice.

I find LED pictures nearly impossible to show how good they look in person. Heres a few pics.

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Thanks to all! Interesting how the pinballbulb kit seems to add a significant bluish/purple hue, while the CT kit is much warmer looking. I wonder if that's a real observation or due to the pictures?

Pinballbulbs kit definitely adds purple/blueish hue. The spotlights it comes with uses purple LEDs. I think it looks good with the purple on the playfield. Definitely makes the game appear newer.

i know a lot of people prefer warm white especially on older machines, but games like this with a space theme look wonderful with cool white or other cool-spectrum colors like purple or blue.

I just got a new STLE game. The bluish hue is similar to the newer Stern game, so I know what that is like. Once again, thanks for all the counsel!

Pinball Center's free downloadable diagram shows the playfield layout. I added the color scheme from the factory (assuming the couple bulbs I had out in the Borg and Shuttle were white). The file also includes their choice of LED replacements as a kit. Worth the download for those researching.

All blank circles are white, hopefully this helps others who are thinking about upgrading to LEDs (as I am) and want a vanilla starting point.

Of course, this is only the playfield...Cheers!

The Grand Lunar

STTNG Pinball Playfiled Factory Color Overlay (resized).jpg

Bumping this old thread to see whether there's a new contender for best kit on the market. Looking to upgrade my TNG to LED soon.

Also, most kits I've seen use non-ghosting LEDs at this point. Is there still an advantage to adding an LED OCD kit?

Thanks!

I am ready to get going on my STTNG and was wondering about Comet Pinball. They are discussing LED with the OCD kit. I was wondering if anyone has gone this way, and how you like it.

Bumping this thread in hopes of an update on LED choices for 2024.

I've read through the entire owners thread an some other resources. I'm still confused on LED options for STTNG.

I know there are ghosting issues with the dimming GI and shield inserts. Do non ghosting bulbs such as those from Comet and PBL not take care of this? Or do you absolutely need the GI and Insert OCD boards too?

Are the non ghosting LEDs just not bright enough for the GI?

I just want a basic kit, cool white GI and the appropriate insert bulbs, non ghosting where applicable. There are tons of kits out there, but none of them seem to cover these bases. That seems crazy, or am I missing something?

Looking to address all my bulbs while I have my game apart for a tear down. Thanks in advance!

The original game used dimming effects on actual lamps. The way they did it was to apply pulsing power to the lamp filaments, which would glow dimly when the power was pulsing due to the filament taking time to cool down. LED's work by cutting entirely OFF when power is removed for a microsecond. They don't glow dimly using this technique.

So, when special effects are being used to intentionally 'dim the bulbs' it takes more than 'flicker free' LED's to get the right appearance. Thus we have OCD boards.

Do you absolutely need...???

Well, what's your tolerance for 'stop motion' effects on the ball? What's your tolerance for high speed flickering?

I personally can't stand playing pinballs that were never meant for LED's and haven't had extraordinary measures taken to deal with the difference in technologies between incandescent and LED's. The flickering really gets to me, and I find it a VERY unpleasant experience.

Other people aren't as worried about it. So do you absolutely need? Only if it bothers you or your players.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember it, there was a small programming error in the WPC code that for a microsecond allowed power to the incandescent bulbs. This wasn't noticeable because it was such a brief pulse that the bulb filaments didn't get hot enough to incandesce. But when people started putting LED's in, the 'ghost flickering' was terrible. A software update can make this tiny little glitch not be so horrible, and 'flicker free' LED's actually handle this specific 'microsecond' of illumination properly (they don't light up).

This is a separate thing from the light systems being driven for effects.

I’m guessing you already know the answer but I’ll address as much as I can.

No, there isn’t a “kit” like your describing since there are a bunch of different bulb companies out there and a single kit will not cover everything your looking for

The GI ODC board is pretty much a must for this game if you have any love for the theme. The integrated light show it’s really shown off with the current state of led otherwise. The led ocd board for the insert builds is hit and miss for me on this one but other swear by it. I can tell you it does make a difference

Non ghosting bulbs has a small resistor in the bottom of the base to keep them from getting to a voltage point that the led is “rebooting” for a lack of better understanding ie flickering. The led ocd board keeps this from happening.

As far as non-ghosting on the GI. Yep that’s fine but the regular bulbs seem to be brighter or have 2-5 smd where the non ghosting only have 1 and are more expensive

I personally would not do cool white as it washes some of the color out of the playfield. 2 smd sunlight from comet work well in pretty much everything and make the pinks and reds pop on the playfield without washing anything out. Color match the red green blue and the 1 pink insert with 1 smd non ghosting and use the “bendies” (thanks Todd) for the insert in but mechs. For yellow and orange you can use 4smd regular bulbs and they will have a better glow then most. Warm and cools non ghosting can also be used in the yellow and orange and work pretty good too. I always use comet bulbs. That’s just what I got use to and so that’s what I use

Last. There really isn’t a “kit” as Thais game has a ton of personality and everyone sees it differently. Some like the cool white space feel, some like the warm white traditional cells and some like the “modern” feel where seeing the ball is the most important.

Order the bulbs you need. Order a few extra and have fun with it. Gonna be about $200 ish

Go to comet for your cheapest and best looking option.
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/2smd-bulbs

Get 2 SMD bulbs.
Get 100 Bayonetted, and 100 Wedge
Get all frosted
Get all Natural White or Sunlight

As to do you need non-ghosting bulbs?
No.

The only space in the game where an LED OCD board makes any difference is in the shield inserts. Its 6 bulbs. I left the incandecents in there and it looks just fine.

I strongly recommend against LED flashers as a general rule as they can be blindingly bright.

This should run you $120 plus shipping and leave you with leftovers to experiment on other games with. You can switch some of these out with color matching bulbs if you'd like, but 100

Read this article https://www.cometpinball.com/pages/choosing-white-color-for-my-pinball-machine
Make a personal preference choice between Natural White, and Sunlight. MOST people seem to prefer sunlight.

Here is my STTNG before and after removing the colored GI mine came with and replacing it with Frosted Natural White Comet 2 SMD LEDs.

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Kits suck ass.

Warm white bulk

Thanks for the quick responses everyone.

PinRetail and Tallon Thanks for the detailed explanation. You both made it very clear and help make sense of the confusion.

SantaEatsCheese I think I will take your suggestion on what to purchase. Your game with the frosted natural (cool) light looks very good.

I'll keep the shield inserts and flashers incandescent for now.

Now my only conundrum is natural white, or sunlight? Does anyone have a playfield shot of their GI with sunlight LEDs?

I wanted to not have to replace all the GI twice as some of these bulbs are really buried under mechs/plastics/ramps.

Made a quick tip video for you specific to STTNG answering most of your questions.

Amazing video! Thanks so much SantaEatsCheese !