If they are 9's buy the Wh20...Harder to find in that condition.

Agree. But to answer the question, I think sttng has more staying power. There's a lot more to do.

WH20 by a mile. A two stage wizard mode, that 5x multiball opportunity, the elusive vacation jackpot. I think the Star Trek theme is a little off putting to casual pinball people who aren't Trekkies as well.

Obviously STTNG isn't a bad game, but if you aren't a Star Trek fan then I'm not sure it's a keeper. It wasn't for me, but WH20 will never leave.

As far as staying power goes....I would have to give the nod to STTNG for its deeper set of rules. Both are great titles and I love them both.

TNG by a mile if you are a better than average player (or are buying the game for yourself to play).

Whitewater for guests, casual/non-players etc...

Whitewater is a very forgiving game that I do not play often anymore as I can beat the heck out of it in a seemingly never ending game when I am no a roll.

TNG has never had that problem, but I play it weird in that I generally just try to go for warp factors and combo missions in with this goal as stuff happens. I rarely make multiball or the wizard goal my priority, they just happen on occasion.

I have had both games for over a decade... FWIW. They are not bad games by any means

Out of the games i have owned WH20 is the the game i feel will stay forever. For me, it is an addicting game!

STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION . Best game ever , a thousand lightyears above and beyond any other pinball machine ever built.

You must be a hell of a player or have your game setup pretty easy if you can consistently hit vacation jackpots.

If you are a huge trekie, STTNG. If not, WH2O all the way.

Consistently is a relative term; plus the roadblock where you sometimes need to get up to 6x jackpot by repeatedly shooting the middle shot is a bit of a drag.

I own the game, I am not trying to make it out to be a dog. It is a hit with my wife and casual players/guests, much more so than Star "Kick you in the nuts": The Next Generation.

After going almost a year without playing whitewater, I put new white rubbers on and gave the game a cleaning, and within two or three games I had won vacation Jackpot. Whoop de do. If I am going to spend 20-30 minutes playing a single game, I tend to gravitate towards LoTR where multiple avenues are available to explore at any given time, vs. the old school Williams "do one thing at a time".

Whitewater: It is a game. It is fun. It has its pluses and minuses. For the "right" deal I would likely pass mine on to a new owner, but then I would have to suffer my wife's wrath

WH2O is a fun game, but STTNG has more going on. I had a WH2O and sold it, STTNG is still here and always will be. I am not a huge Star Trek fan, but I appreciate a really well made, deep, challenging game and there isn't anything better than STTNG.

STTNG is by far the better game and more staying power. Great game.

I'm not a huge trekie at all in fact I didn't even watch the show untill I played the game , I figured if the game is this awesome then the show must be alright . So its the game that turned me on to the show . I'm also not into whitewater rafting either , so really neither of the themes I would say really spoke to me . Star Trek The Next Generation has way better flow , better rules , better sounds . Star trek will never leave my collection, and I will never own a whitewater , Have a few friends that have/had it and it gets old real quick . One of my friends that still has it I think it would be lucky if it gets turned on and played once a year .

No.

It sure is fun though.

This is truth

Depth of a puddle, but sometimes splashing around in a puddle is all you need to put a smile on your face.

EIther is worth owning.

WH2O- easy but very fun.

STTNG-harder(unless you use the pathetic "cheater" lane guides) but very fun.

Exactly what he said

I have both and would have a tough time deciding which to sell if I had to, so I'll say they are both excellent games with staying power. That said, it is really hard to find a nice White Water unless it has been restored. So go for the White Water. This is assuming both are fairly priced and you aren't being gouged on the price.

Cheers,
Duane

STTNG would be my pick..... but then again it's my favorite game. WH2O is fun..... but currently over priced IMHO.

I have to agree with that.

Sacrilege! Both are about $5-10K underpriced based upon current NIB Stern pricing!

Wht0 is the better pin. Both great but is just better.

A new in box Star trek should be worth at least $100,000.

Sold my STTNG. Will never sell WH2O.

If you already owned STTNG I'd get the Wh2O. TAF is too straight forward. WH2O has some nice nuances like lining up 5x playfield with 3xJackpot MB. Hotfoot bigfoot and Gold Rush are also cool to get so there can be a lot to shoot for in a home setting where you just want to annihilate the game.
I was one shot away from VJ on my first ball last week showing how beatable the game can be.

There are ways to make Wh20 more difficult like removing the rubber in the pops to allow the ball to exit towards the right outlane. Also setting it to tournament mode will only give you 5 million for mystery award so you're not randomly awarded something like 6x rapids.

WH20 is harder to find in nice shape. And it's just plain fun. STTNG is a great game; but, you can always pick one up somewhere... and even for a die-hard Star Trek fan like me... it's just not as fun.

WH2O. Personally I don't care for ST:TNG at all. The outlanes are horrible. Yes, I know they can be "fixed" with a mod, but I refuse to modify a game from the way it was shipped to make it easier.

I own both, but I'd choose STTNG if I could have only one. Just more to do. Having said that, the comments about the relative difficulty of finding a good WH20 are worth considering.

I disagree with those who say you need to be a Trek fan for STTNG to have staying power. I'm not a Trek fan, never watched Next Gen and havn't seen a Trek movie since I watched Star Trek IV I think (it was a double feature with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade). Because of this I was always hesitant to play next gen, but once I played a few games I found how much fun the game is.

STTNG is a top 20 game (if not top 10) whether you are a Treky or not.

STTNG was our first pin and I'm a big trek fan, so I doubt it will ever leave our collection. I still play it quite a bit and the difficulty is what keeps you coming back. It is deeper than WH20 but WH20 is much more of a crowd pleaser. STTNG is hard for the casual player to get into. WH2O is our most recent acquisition and is really fun. Both look great with a color DMD by the way.

I have both my my WH2O is collectors quality just about and my STTNG is a solid 9.5 but I think Whitewater is my keeper of the two, i bet I will get rid of STTNG first. Especially with the colorDMD coming, gonna make WH2O that much better

Whitewater for sure...
I'm a big Star Trek fan but couldn't wait to get rid of STTNG...I was expecting more I guess, it was kind of repetitive.

STTNG for me. I like WH20, but I think STTNG is the superior game.

STTNG is probably one of the best games out there, if not the best. Whitewater is difficult and doesn't have half as many things going on as STTNG.

I have a WH2O, and would like to have STTNG... But I would not give up the WH2O to get one. Most of my pins are Dennis Nordman games..... I think they are the best!

Yeah, that rubber in the boulders has to go, and if you've reduced the strength of the Lost Mine pop-out so that it lands on the right flipper every time then you've significantly reduced the difficulty. I actually kind of like the factory-spec merciless Lost Mine kickout.

You are a hell of a player. I don't know anyone good enough to hit VJ every two or three games. Maybe me and my friends suck at pinball

STTNG by a mile. WH2O is a great game but it has no depth, especially once you hit Vacation Jackpot.

Such a personal preference I guess. I rarely play my STTNG...

Have both, both are keepers. STTNG is played more.

Wh2o is turned on once a year....dude that's pin abuse...your friend needs to have his pins confiscated by PPS.

Well when it's sitting in a room that has about 60 other (better) pins it's easy to overlook a whitewater , and it's taken care of very well (no abuse .)

Don't understand this rationale. By analogy, if you aren't into white water rafting, I'm not sure it's a keeper

I own/love both. I think Star Trek has more staying power. Classic TV show - theme integration (dots, audio) second to none. Classic Steve Ritchie design doesn't hurt either...

snaroff

Hey,

I'll float this out there. What are you going for in your collection? WhiteWater is a fun game, but the "shoot up the middle twenty five times to rack up the bonus multiplier" part of it, combined with the nails-on-a-chalkboard wack of the ball against the glass off the Insanity Falls ramp, made mine come and go in about four months. The rest of the game is as good as everyone says it is, but what a glaring hole in the rules.

I don't have much time on STTNG at all, but if it's as deep of a game as people say it is, I'd be inclined toward that. Based upon your current collection, you seem to like deeper games (Shadow, LotR, TSPP, TZ). Just my two cents.

Luke

Owned both for awhile, and WH20 is still here... Both are fun, but WH20 is just a more well rounded Pin for the collector, as well as for the rest of the family and guests.

I'll buy the two you don't want..........PM me!!! I would love a nice TAF.