Too MUCH?

Sounds like it's time for an EM...... they might have a heart attack. There's way more to do on Avengers than STTNG lol....

How important is finished code to you?

You could still purchase a new ST Pro many months from now and there will be more code done...heard they have a long ways to go right now.

Here is the response you’re going to likely get here.

Anyone that just dropped 5-8k for a NIB ST will likely tell you its way better than STTNG, at least for now.

Anyone that likes a classic widebody with custom original voice actors, solid code, many toys and features, great art (save the translite) will side with STTNG.

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Cool! Then he should enjoy watching them pummel the Rams without mercy. It’s going to be a slaughter.

Yah, we all tend to be somewhat biased so, you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

About 100% correct.

Here's my take (I've played both and own neither): Stern ST feels like the key shots of the old STTNG crossed with the speed and flow of Iron Man.

If you like widebodies, you'll like STTNG more. If you dislike widebodies like I almost universally do, you'll like ST more, the only issue is the code will hold ST back for then next weeks/months/years. Codewise, it's a far cry from STTNG.

My wife does not care for STTNG. I think it is because she has not put enough games on it. She played new Star Trek and really liked it. She also really liked WOZ, which I particularly do not care for. I recently picked up a POTC and I have to say it is a great family title. I think you may be better off with a Spider Man, POTC, or maybe a Shrek as a good "family" pinball-but Star Trek has a great layout and lighting scheme. If they can get into the whole Trek theme-I would say it is a good choice.

I love my STTNG. Most of my friends do not like it. I found Dr Who and RFM and TSPP are the favorites of others when they come. STTNG is for me though and I do not plan to part with it anytime soon. Since Star Trek has come I have significantly reduced playing SWE1. I have not played the new Star Trek but of the recent machines I have played, MET LE has been my favorite newer machine I have played as of late.

ST a Lyman game. This virtually guarantees that the game will have a some amazing polished code at some point in the future. It's not a question of if, but when.

Ritchie?

Not Lyman right now....although he may do a polish of the code later, like he did for Tron.

Steve Ritchie is the designer, Lyman is the software programmer

I have TNG and also an ST on order.

TNG embodies the theme much better; ST plays much faster. Despite all the comparisons, I really don't think they play anywhere near the same.

However, if your family thinks there is "too much going on" with TNG, then ST is a good choice.

I see what you did there. Basically calling anybody that bought the ST to be opinionated. However anybody that owns a STTNG bought the game because it's got everything. All this coming from a guy who owns STTNG. Classic, LOL

If you are a ST fan (or not) get all four. Something for everyone. STID is great fun even if you don't like the theme.

Huh? Since when? Are you saying that because Stern tried to list all games as Lyman by making him head of programming? Last I heard he is absolutely not the programmer on ST.

To my knowledge Lonnie was doing ST right now? I could be wrong but I thought it was his software at Expo?

I'm 99% sure ST is not Lyman full time right now though.

Crap...that explains why every mode is "shoot all lit arrows, and they're all lit"......

It is the new wiz kid not Lonnie!!!

Okay, so I take back what I said about the software. I thought ST was a Lyman game, but it apparently isn't. Without him at the helm, all bets are off. I guess I just assumed that after the success of AC/DC that Ritchie and Lyman would be paired together from now on.

Just buy the new one, and never update the code. That should keep everyone happy.

Looks like you got me about half right there partner. True on the statement that people like STTNG because it has everything and that is exactly what I meant there, yes. Wrong on the opinionated ST owner’s accusation you made. What I was saying but, may not have made it clear enough, is that you seldom have people that just purchased a NIB pin say it sucks right away. The reason is the whole new pin euphoria that takes place during the first couple of months of ownership. No one has owned a ST for over two months yet so, I would say that there is a high probability of creating this type of bias. Whereas games that have been around for a while or games that a person has owned a while, this emotional swing has tapered off a bit and may allow for a more objective viewpoint.

Actually I was wrong at least for this thread, as no one has really came out saying that ST is way better then STTNG like I predicted. You see how easy that is (to admit when you’re wrong)?

Your family probably dislikes STTNG for the same reason many do...it's a difficult game. STTNG is very deep and challenging. One of the best integrations of theme in all of pinball with all the bells and whistles. Can be unforgiving and many people don't like the challenge it presents.

ST is more family friendly. People who just want to play like that they are shooting the lit shots and keeping the ball moving. If you are a cpmpetitve player playing for points though, ST right now is starting multiballs and timing out near worthless modes to get to unbalanced rewards. Players realize it isn't worth shooting for the lit shots for 100,000 points and worth draining the ball. Right now, there isn't near enough to keep me interested in ST long term, but I am not a casual player.

So...STTNG is by far and large the better game, but for the casual audience ST is a good choice if you want a new game.

I didn't find STTNG that hard, it takes fairly long to to get through all the modes but in the year I owned it I completed the game many times. It is a fantastic pinball but I can't wait for my ST LE, even if I had to choose without having played STTNG I'd still go with the newer ST. I love the older pins but they are just that and really starting to show there age with some of the more recent stern pin's. ST LE all the way......

Ok, here's my take. Everyone should know by now I am a big Star Trek fan from the beginning. I have owned my STTNG for 10 years now. This past Saturday I drove 75 miles to Flippers in Grandy NC to play the new Star Trek Pro. I have a STLE on order. I love the new Star Trek pro, everything I have read about it is true, bright, fast, great flow. I cant wait to get my LE as I am sure it will be even better. I also love my STTNG and would never consider selling it but as far as comparing the two I think the only thing they have in common beside their both Star Trek is the fact they both have 3 flippers, that's it, the difference to me is like night and day, both great in their own way but yes I still don't like the red DMD and that will be the only change I plain to make. Here is some video I took at Flippers, Star Trek is at the beginning.

Well not really. I was commenting how you say STTNG has everything, when you yourself own the game. Just jabbing at your possible bias toward STTNG. Iv'e owned the game for several years but just got tired of it.

That's a common misconception people seem to make on Pinside over and over. On one side you have the people who own the game and should know if it sucks. On the other side you have people who have played the game that think it sucks and all the other side is doing is protecting their investment, yes I said investment. So which side is right? I don't know but I tend to believe anybody that owns the game before someone that claims to have played it.
But that's just me. Also people flip games all the time right after purchasing it.

LOL, I'm glad you have a lighter side. I think we are both right. I think SOME people actually do hype their newly purchased game because they know they are going to sell it soon. But mostly people are being honest .

I enjoyed playing the new ST very much. It was a lot better than I thought it would be.....fun game.

That being said I would not trade my STTNG for a new ST.

For a STLE? Sure.....I'm not stupid.

P.S. I would then sell the STLE and buy another STTNG and something else.

True^^

It's hard to argue against this. ^^^

Couldn't agree more. ^^^^

Wrong. Just because I buy something doesn't mean I need to lie about it. This is a super annoying assumption. Have you considered that people own games because they like them rather then they lie about liking them because they own them? Geez.

I own both games. Here is my comparison:

Sttng: one if the best integrations of theme in pinball. Every original voice actor hired for game original quotes.
Stid: movie clip sounds only. Sounds are decent but not all that engaging.
Sttng big winner here.

Sttng: Doug Watson did a fantastic job on the rules. Not a lot of repetition. Lots of strategy, good wizard mode, its a ruleset master piece.
Stid: rules are stubbed in as of v1.2. Modes are implemented. Lots of repetition. Seems after a couple hours you've done everything multiple times.
Sttng big winner here.

Sttng: Layout has three ramps, three flippers, two guns. Decent flow if you're making shots. Shots are far and difficult to make. Very high level of punishment for missing. Drain monster at times.
Stid: three ramps and three flippers. Shots are extremy wide and easy to make. One of the fastest and best flowing games I've ever played.
Stid shoots better in my opinion. But not by much.

To me, sttng is the whole package. One of the best games ever released. Stid is pretty fun and very fast but its not in the same category. I would not sell sttng and get stid - probably not even after all the code updates. That doesn't make the new Star Trek bad. It's just not better than the older.

You got me all wrong there and is waaaaaayyyy far from what I was trying to say. Sorry that's how you took it. I certainly did not mean to say that anyone would lie. Just that there is some initial excitement over getting a new pin that clouds a pinheads initial judgments/reviews. Geez lighten up some pal, a bit cocked an loaded are we?

I own both machines. I think they're both great. There is no way I'd trade STTNG for the new machine though. The new machine is a total pleasure to play, though I've only had it a few days. I'm finding the modes a little tough to figure out so far. It's really smooth and fast, and a lot of fun, but I get the sense that the software needs a little revision, as folks here seem to be saying. To be clear, I've been playing a Pro model, though I'm awaiting an LE. My local retailer was nice enough to deliver the Pro to me while we're waiting for the LE to arrive. The depth of STTNG is simply fantastic. As far as a modern machine with that kind of depth, I think Lord of the Rings is also fantastic. Personal bias of course, as I own that machine as well. I feel very lucky to have the Star Trek LE on the way, but even if all the bugs get worked out, I'd never trade it for STTNG.

Well you and Markmon just blew my whole initial post to bits then, based on your statements here.

Haha. Not my intention at all. Just trying to say STTNG is an incredible machine. Maybe think about an LED upgrade to breathe some new life in to it. I'm doing my LOTR machine now, and planning to do my STTNG machine next. I'm so enamoured with the LED lighting in my new Star Trek pin, it makes the old machines look dull! Probably from a purist standpoint, I should leave them alone, but I never intend to sell my machines, so why not make them look awesome??!!

Don't you just pick one, and then shoot the colored lit shots? I've only played it on location, so maybe I was missing something.

LEDs make a night and day difference in STTNG for sure. Warm white just look wrong on anything ST.

I recommend super bright whites under the inlane plastics and slings. The first time you fight the Borg and take a hit on your shields, you'll know why I say that.

Wife and I played a fair bit of ST at chicago Expo and pbl. It has some great potential, and you can tell it's going to be a very fast game, faster than STTNG imho. I love STTNG and so does the wife (its her favorite) so it will be here a long time. I would highly recommend you take your wife with you and play the Pro or LE (when it ships) together before you decide. That way you can decide together which one is better if its a one vs the other decision.

I would own a Stern ST before a Williams ST. Way more flow, faster and just a lot more fun.
My opinion of course. Owned a Williams ST for awhile and sold it. Played ST at expo for 2 straight hours and it kept making me press the start button.

D

Well I hope that's not true......unless it was 4am and no one was waiting

Yes, of course. I'm talking about getting the Captain's chair multiball. It seems you have to "complete" each mode, not just play it in order to get the 3 in a row CC multiball. Only there is no discernible difference in terms of lighting on the board to illustrate this. The difference seems to be, that you are able to restart this mission in mission select. Therefor it has been played, but not completed. Just getting to know it. It would be cool if the mission flashed once completed, or went solid once completed. Some way to see at a glance what you've played, vs what you've completed. Still learning.

STTNG would be a pin that I could not get rid of if I had one, even if I wanted to.

That's what it appears. Instruction cards don't say much. I didn't care as it played great today @ MPNYC.

I think it in part depends on whether you like deep epic code with lots of different playfield interaction, or a fast in your face smooth shooting pin.

I have my STTNG and next to it is a fast in your face smooth shooting JM. Id trade the JM in a second for a new ST tho!

STTNG will always be the better game, even if ST has updated code.