(Topic ID: 149793)

ST:TNG Switch Matrix and Reset Issues

By Neemox

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 70 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Neemox
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_20160205_123855_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160205_115833_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160205_120233_(resized).jpg
PDB_-_CPU_5Volt_(resized).jpg
switch_matrix_-_short_(resized).JPG
IMG_20160122_150425_(resized).jpg
There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this would indicate the thermistor is not the issue since it reset with the thermistor out of the circuit.

EDIT: I re-read the part of my post you quoted, and now I think I understand better. Yeah, it certainly does seem to me as though there is a second problem, perhaps the thermistor is simply amplifying the problem because it is doing its job. I'll try and re-install the thermistor, and heat it up with a heat gun and watch for the game to go to the "only once in a while" resets, which would suggest something else.

#52 8 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

you can measure the resistance of the fuseholder or measure the AC voltage coming thru it to determine if its an issue or not. I would just replace it personally.

Yeah, I robbed a spring out of another dead table for now, but I also have a new part on order. Makes me very nervous to eventually find all the other hacks on this table...

#53 8 years ago
Quoted from Neemox:

re-install the thermistor, and heat it up with a heat gun

The heat gun test is out of circuit with an ohm meter, it should rapidly loose resistance as it gets warm. Removing the fuse will serve the function of taking it out of circuit if you already soldered it back in.

#54 8 years ago

Ok, so to help you out with the test, I pulled out a spare thermistor, hit it with a heat gun while monitoring it with an IR temperture sensor. the thermistor started out at 3.5 ohms at 65 degrees and dropped to less than one ohm at 85 degrees. In your game with all current running through it, it should heat up pretty fast.

#55 8 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

The heat gun test is out of circuit with an ohm meter

Yeah, I was going to test it this way first.

Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Ok, so to help you out with the test, I pulled out a spare thermistor, hit it with a heat gun while monitoring it with an IR temperture sensor. the thermistor started out at 3.5 ohms at 65 degrees and dropped to less than one ohm at 85 degrees. In your game with all current running through it, it should heat up pretty fast.

This is awesome! Thank you so much, I will reproduce this test and see what my thermistor's are doing.

#56 8 years ago

I didn't know anything about this. Looks like a decent idea. I am kind of reluctant to slap a band-aid over a problem I haven't identified yet, but I am also kind of eager to get this machine playing right. I'm going to order one of these just to have around as a diagnostic at least, although I am not convinced that it is too much better than a DMM for diagnostics. Might be informative on the whole though. Thanks for the link!

#57 8 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Removing the fuse will serve the function of taking it out of circuit if you already soldered it back in.

brilliant!

#58 8 years ago
Quoted from Neemox:

I didn't know anything about this. Looks like a decent idea. I am kind of reluctant to slap a band-aid over a problem I haven't identified yet, but I am also kind of eager to get this machine playing right. I'm going to order one of these just to have around as a diagnostic at least, although I am not convinced that it is too much better than a DMM for diagnostics. Might be informative on the whole though. Thanks for the link!

These are useful as a bandaid and diagnostic tool. Let's face it, sometimes you just want to play the game. If you go with one of these, go with the pro version because it has an LED that turns red and stays red if the 5v dips. The DMM might not detect rapid fluctuations that may cause a reset ... If this solves reset issues, you can monitor that LED to gain some insight on where the problem is.

#59 8 years ago

So both of the thermistor's test fine out of the circuit, they start with around 3 ohms resistance, and decrease to less than one when I heat them up externally.

However, they still cause resets when either of them is installed. So, my brain is thinking that the reset issue is in fact involved with the function the thermistor is supposed to provide.

Is there another power buffering system in the 5v circuit besides the thermistor? Something else that could be faulty and behave like a thermistor issue? A cap somewhere?

#60 8 years ago

Can you post a picture of the input of the transformer to show us that is it wired for 120v, not lower?
On the output side, are there any burnt pins when you disconnect the male/female connectors?

#61 8 years ago

J101 on the power driver board does not have any burnt pins?

#62 8 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you post a picture of the input of the transformer to show us that is it wired for 120v, not lower?

This is the connector I presume you are asking about? How could it be wired lower than 120V?
IMG_20160205_120233_(resized).jpgIMG_20160205_120233_(resized).jpg

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

J101 on the power driver board does not have any burnt pins?

J101 looks great. (Actually, all the connections on the power driver board look good except for 1 of the GI connectors that was pretty hacked when I received it (all fixed now))
IMG_20160205_115833_(resized).jpgIMG_20160205_115833_(resized).jpg

#63 8 years ago

What is your wall voltage measuring?

#64 8 years ago

Also reseat J102, J114 and J210 and the z connector if there is one between the MPU and driver boards. Any resets after that?

#65 8 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Try a temporary jumper from PDB-TP2 to CPU L1. This excludes J114, J210 and the Z-connector.
PDB_-_CPU_5Volt_(resized).jpg

I have reseated every connector in the backbox (multiple times actually). I also did a test (recommended by Zaza) to jumper past the Z-connector and 114 and 210. None of those seemed to help.

Wall voltage measured at the utility plug in the game is steady 118V.

I did go looking around at the transformer connector, and someone had installed a piggy back to provide line voltage for a bill acceptor (there is no bill acceptor installed in the game), and that piggy back seems to use smaller gauge wire for the jumpers on the transformer connector. Could reduced wire gauges there lead to this problem?

I just removed the bill acceptor connection and played a nice game with lots of double flipper action, but one game wouldn't always trip it. Also, I still have the thermistors out of the circuit (jumper installed).

IMG_20160205_123855_(resized).jpgIMG_20160205_123855_(resized).jpg

#66 8 years ago

That bill acceptor might have been factory.
The game's voltage selection is set correctly for normal North American line voltage, in the "butterfly" configuration. That connector itself selects the voltage, and would be worth reseating a few times.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#67 8 years ago

What about 2 transformer output connectors?. Reseat those as well. Any burnt pins on those two connectors?

#68 8 years ago

Hmm, haven't looked too much at connectors away from the board, but that makes a lot of sense. I will do that when I get back to the machine tonight.

#69 8 years ago

Sometimes I even notice that J101 plugs in a lot looser than the other board connectors. If you have the ability, I would repin J101 with new triforicon pins with new molex connector. When the two red wired pins get heavily tarnished or burnt, it definitely causes the game to reset more often when both flippers are pushed simultaneously.

#70 8 years ago

I only have IDC Connectors at teh house, I'll see about picking up the tri pins for J101. It does still fell pretty snug to me. The only plug that isn't super snug is the 2 pin ground plug just above 101 (103 I think?) It is not the most secure plug. Worth replacing I'm sure.

There aren't any burnt connectors in the chain from the transformer to the board and I went through and reseated everything I could find several times.

I did start thinking about connectors though.

Could J121 or J115 have ANYTHING to do with th reset circuit? I think J121 is just GI lighting, but it had been hacked pretty awful when I got the board. The headers and the connector were both scorched and part of a trace on the back was starting to lift to due burn damage. Someone had clipped the wires off the connector and soldered them directly to the headers, and then just bent the header pins up so the rest of the connector could be plugged in. Pretty terrible. (But I don't think this has anything to do with resets...)

I don't know the story on J115, but I can see that someone has replaced it. The connector at least is not stock. No idea why it was changed or what that connector leads to (Just haven't looked down the line yet), but that repair does look sound without anything glaringly ugly.

I keep on thinking I'll find this mystery answer, but not sure. I'm thinking maybe I'll take the board over and slap it into a friends TZ or IJ and try to rule out all board issues.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 599.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Juz PINBALL Mods
 
$ 64.99
$ 27.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
 
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
 
6,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Mechanicsville, VA
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 15.00
$ 25.99
Lighting - Led
Lee's Parts
 
$ 63.95
$ 85.00
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 250.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
6,300
Machine - For Sale
Sanford, NC
$ 259.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 20.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 29.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
 
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
 
$ 22.50
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
From: $ 25.00
Playfield - Decals
Flashinstinct
 
$ 399.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
 
$ 29.90
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Haus
 
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 1,059.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 9.95
6,000
Machine - For Sale
West Chester, PA
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-switch-matrix-and-reset-issues/page/2 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.