(Topic ID: 73020)

STTNG restore: Need help with 2 issues

By ksmmspt

10 years ago


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  • 34 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by ksmmspt
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

Hello all: My restoration of my STTNG is coming along nicely. I powered up the machine for the first time in about 10 years and I have at least 2 problems that I have identified.

First: Both of my cannons seem to rotate properly but are not lined up properly. Neither point directly at the wire loading ramp. How do you adjust the home position on the cannons?

Second: I have a problem with balls continuing to be loaded into the launcher and not being recognized in the trough. I did install new great lakes modular boards as the old boards looked like they have been through a war zone. I would like to replace the female connector on the emitter board as the operator has soldered the wires to the current connector which I'm guessing doesn't work too well with the new boards. Can anyone tell me what size and type of connector I need to get and how the wiring should be to each pin? Thanks for any and all help!!

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#2 10 years ago

They are standard .100" connectors. I ordered some from digikey; but haven't installed them on my machine yet.
I tend to replace idc w/ crimped connectors.
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/connectors-interconnects/rectangular-board-to-board-connectors-headers-receptacles-female-sockets/1442673?k=conn

S9438-ND is proably the right match. make sure you get the crimps for it.

#3 10 years ago

Your ball problem may not have anything to do with the trough, it may have to do with the driver 8 board. You may have shorted or locked on coils to one or both of the subway diverters, a very common problem with STTNGs. The cause can be somewhat tricky to fix, as I have found all kinds of totally insane fixes people have attempted back in the day to get by this, deailing with these coils, the board, and the pull back voltage wire (or whatever its called) on the drop target coil for this board.

Clay details this very well in his guides, if you don't have that, let me know and I'll link you to another post that talks about it.

#4 10 years ago

The ball problem can also be any one of the multiple optos not working properly. If any one of them is malfunctioning, be it dirty or defective, the machine doesn't register the balls correctly.

The cannon alignment is easy. There is a home switch under the playfield that you just need to rotate subtly in the proper direction so that the cannon aligns properly when the switch is triggered. There are two on both cannons actually. It is the home switch that needs adjusting. Just check for it in switch edge test.

#5 10 years ago

it also can be your new great lakes modular board(16 opto) ,.I had probs out of the box and it did turn out to be a problem with the new board. Tony did help me tech Get it to work only after Tony sent us a new tested board . Hope you fix it , Great game once you get past the Maintenance part

#6 10 years ago

Thanks everyone! Thanks, Zitt for the connector info. I like Big Daddy for my connectors and crimps so I just placed an order to do the connectors for both boards. Can you or someone else take a pic of the 5 pin connector for the emitter board so that I know which wire goes to each pin?

Thanks Atomicboy, it appears that I have the tie-back to the drop target coil on my machine, but I will watch this after I replace the connectors to see if problems arise.

Also, it appears that both of my cannons do not rotate far enough toward the wire loading ramps. How do I adjust them to line up properly prior to setting the home switch? If that makes sense...

TY Pinfever. I'll check functionality of the boards after I replace the connectors. I know they need replacing...

#7 10 years ago

Optos, Optos, Optos ...

Before you do any kind of crazy board work ... check and clean all optos. Especially the ones under the playfield in the underground tunnels. That area gets real dirty. In fact, make sure not to bypass cleaning the tunnels when you shop it out. To clean the optos, q-tips and isopropyl alchohol!

Also, your original trough boards may be just fine. Just inspect them for any disconnected or broken components (due to vibration). Also inspect for broken traces. If you are not comfortable with board work, you might want to find someone who can help you inspect them and test for continuity.

All it takes is one dirty opto ... or one disconnected (or cold soldered) component to give you plenty of ball trough issues.

Finally, always try re-seating ribbon cables on the main boards. Just make sure to reseat them the same way ... and be gentle ... not to break or bend any of those delicate pins.

Cheers

#8 10 years ago

I had so many problems with my optos; that I opted to replace every opto in my game. Time consuming; but I had some intermittent issues related to the age of the LED emitters yellowing/browning with age. They were no longer blue... but brown.

Once I did this; many of my problems went away... the only remaining issue is that my connectors were too loose on the opto / transitor trough so I'm going to crimp new connectors on it to alleviate that issue. and Onsite hack resolved the issue by soldering the wires directly to the board.

#9 10 years ago

STTNG is a royal pain in the ass. When I hear of people talk about X machine being the worst machine for repairing, I instantly know they have not repaired a STTNG.

I don't think there is another game that has been sold/traded as much for being liked but the owner was tired of fixing the damn thing.

#10 10 years ago

Remove the cannon mechs completely and clean thoroughly. As far as the cannons not rotating, it could be your home switch. When the cannon hits the home switch it will stop. See if you are able to align them in the cannon test. If you can then it's a switch issue. If you can't then pull the mechs and clean them. Doesn't take too much work.

#11 10 years ago

Hoser said ""All it takes is one dirty opto ... or one disconnected (or cold soldered) component to give you plenty of ball trough issues""" yes to that big time

Also the ball trough I had was not working well either as they tend to wear a divot in the bottom metal groove and causes the ball to not sit right and in switch test the trough optos would be open when supposed to be closed until I shook the game and went closed when the balls finally aligned right in the trough and that solved that question .

#12 10 years ago

Ok, I was able to get the cannons lined up and they are working! I checked my trough boards and they have all green lights on the great lakes boards. Went through switch edge tests on all optos and they seem to all be working. I fired up and played a few games. Seemed to work well for about 3 games then I noticed when selecting Launch a probe, it would just send the ball out to the left flipper and skip the launch a probe part. Then when the game ended, it kept loading a ball and sending it up the playfield. It would be returned to the left flipper, then the trough and would just keep cycling forever. I did clean all optos when I replaced the subway ramp, but I'm guessing a lot of them are old and could be having intermittent problems. Zitt: I may have to replace some optos....

I also noticed that in the general illumination tests, none of the playfield 1 lights were functioning. Any suggestions on what to check here?

Also, neither of the return lane "magnet" switches were working. What should I check here?

#13 10 years ago

eddys - check the pots. Turn them until the led lights... then turn them until the led just turns off. IIRC

#14 10 years ago

Again, check the diverters for the subway, both of them. Go into test, and see if both fire. I'm betting at least one does not.

The driver 8 board is a PITA for this machine, and is usually hacked to shit.

#15 10 years ago

Thanks Zitt, I'll try that tonight...never worked on eddys before.

Atomicboy: I will rerun the divertor test, but I'm almost positive that both fired earlier during the test. I also have not cleaned the optos on the left upkicker to the cannon and to the lane return so I'll do that and see if that helps. I'll report back tonight....work just takes up too much pinball time!!

#16 10 years ago

You should switch test the optos in the two upper troughs. That's where my problem was, and it created similar fallout. They are simple to troubleshoot though. Just use a pencil or piece of paper to block the optos one by one. If one or more is not registering, you know that's at least part of the problem.

#17 10 years ago

OK, I did the divertor tests and sure enough, the right divertor was not adjusted properly and was preventing the ball from going to the right cannon. A small adjustment and it was working again. I also adjusted the eddy switches and they worked well for several games until the right one decided to stop working...raised the playfield and the led was lit. Readjusted and all is well again.

Played about 20 games with my boys and occasionally had a ball here and there that would drain and not be recognized. But it would be recognized after a ball was kicked out and that one drained. So I guess I have an intermittant problem. Not a big deal right now.

Anybody have any thoughts on the playfield 1 lights not working and what to check? Possible poor connection??

Thanks so much for all the help! Love this machine....it's sooo hard!!

#18 10 years ago

not following the playfield 1 lights... is it a row / column issue?

#19 10 years ago

When performing the general illumination test, there are several lights tied into a category named playfield 1. There is also playfield 2, which works fine. No lights are lit during the test for playfield 1.

#20 10 years ago

If it's a GI string you're talking about, check the fuse for it first, if good, it's likely the single biggest issues in most pins, the GI conenctors on the bottom left corner of the driver board, J120 and J121, both are tied into the same traces, but they split them up to spread out the heat for each wire.

Check these out, if there is brown and black seen on the connectors anywhere, or the pins, it's likely this, and the female's will need to be repinned with molex and trifurcon pins, and the headers at least reflowed, worst case replaced.

#21 10 years ago

Played about 20 games with my boys and occasionally had a ball here and there that would drain and not be recognized. But it would be recognized after a ball was kicked out and that one drained. So I guess I have an intermittant problem. Not a big deal right now

check the ball trough metal groove at the bottom .. Check for divots , , could be that ,

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from ksmmspt:

Ok, I was able to get the cannons lined up and they are working! I checked my trough boards and they have all green lights on the great lakes boards. Went through switch edge tests on all optos and they seem to all be working. I fired up and played a few games. Seemed to work well for about 3 games then I noticed when selecting Launch a probe, it would just send the ball out to the left flipper and skip the launch a probe part. Then when the game ended, it kept loading a ball and sending it up the playfield. It would be returned to the left flipper, then the trough and would just keep cycling forever.

like others have said, this sounds like the diverter is not activating -- not an opto problem. on mine, the solder on the diverter coil was bad, and it gave the same symptoms.

edit: oops, I'm behind.

#23 10 years ago

good luck with this awesome game. once you get it dialed in, there are few pins that are as much fun. mastering the Picard Maneuver is one of pinball's all time great joys

#24 10 years ago

Ok, update on the GI problem. Was a blown fuse J106. Replaced it and the GI lights are back up. However, after replacing this, I played a game and was having a good one until I hit both flippers at the same time and the game reset! Started a new game and repeated the problem. I'm guessing this is a documented problem as well...
Anybody got some ideas here??

Pezpunk: I've been trying to get the delta ramp divertor dialed in to not restrict smooth ball flow onto the wire ramp. Boy am I having to tighten the stew out of those allen screws!

#25 10 years ago

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

A lot of the time it is in the connectors from the driver to the CPU.

#26 10 years ago

BR2 and C5 probably need to be replaced. If you aren't experienced with board repair I would send it off to Coin Op Cauldron.

http://webpages.charter.net/coinopcauldron/Index.html

#27 10 years ago

Follow the troubleshooting steps Atomicboy provided.. don't just start shotgunning parts

#28 10 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Follow the troubleshooting steps Atomicboy provided.. don't just start shotgunning parts

Exactly - DO NOT replace components first, while advice is appreciated, this is usually not the case with this issue, more often than not it's in the connectors.

The only quick trick I look to first before going balls deep in the proper search is checking the 5v on the driver, then on the CPU. If it's a solid 5v at the driver, and drops quite a bit, at the cpu (4.95 or less), then I swap the connectors to new molex with trifurcons for the driver, cpu, and Z connector, if applicable (with STTNG, it is).

#29 10 years ago

Well I read through the pinwiki instructions. I read where if the game resets in the first 30 minutes of turning it on, the thermistor could be bad. I went ahead and turned the machine on and let it warmup for about 45 min. Sure enough, the machine doesn't reset. I guess I need a new thermistor.

#30 10 years ago

I also checked the voltages at the driver board, which was 4.98VDC and compared them to the cpu board, which was 4.69 VDC. Looks like I need to redo the connectors at J210 and J114.

Thanks Atomicboy....do you know the size of molex (0.156?) and what do you do with the Z connector? Do you replace the male ends or just the female ends? Thanks for everyone's help!!

#31 10 years ago

0.156 pins are correct. I don’t replace male pins (header pins) unless they are corroded or burnt, which usually is only a problem with GI connectors. Across the 5v this doesn’t occur (that I have seen anyway). Any 5v problem involving connectors I have resolved, and it would appear you will too, with replacing the female molex connector with trifucon pins. Have you re-pinned one of these before?

While you are re-pinning the 5v path from the driver to the cpu, you might as well take a good look at your GI, J120 and J121 in the lower left area, as these almost always need re-pinning of the female connectors. These are the ones that get burnt, sometimes so bad the headers need to be replaced.

For a quick fix, since you now know the major reason for your reset problem is now there, you can try working from the cpu connector backwards. Turn off the machine each time between each reseating. Reseat the cpu 5v connector, read the voltage at the cpu, is there the same drop? Then the oen side of the Z connector, again, was there an increase at the cpu, or is it the same? Then the other end of the Z, then the connector for the driver. This will usually show one specific connector that is dropping the voltage substantially.

Regardless, at this point, I redo all of these connectors, as they are all prone to voltage drops, but this can sometimes get enough juice back in the line to get you running short term until you order the stuff you need. Again, check the GI as well when you do these connectors, because if that isn’t a problem now, it will be soon. These two things, the 5v bridge and cap, battery leakage, and the HV section on the DMD controller and the most problematic board issues for WPCs. It’s hard to find a WPC that hasn’t had these issues repaired (or hacked in an attempt to repair), or that isn’t suffering from these problems now.

#32 10 years ago

Thanks again, Atomicboy, for the great info. I have repinned a GI connector on my Bally Star Trek with trifurcon pins before and have a crimp tool. I will go ahead and order the molex connectors to redo all of those areas mentioned. How do you attack the Z connector? Do you eliminate it and solder the wires together or redo the connector?

Amazingly, it hasn't reset since I've posted last but I have warmed the machine up 45 minutes prior to playing...thermistor.

#33 10 years ago

hmm do you get the same drop in voltage at the cpu after waiting 45 minutes?

#34 10 years ago

The voltage was measured well after 45 minutes. I didn't measure it on cold startup. I may do that tonight for the heck of it.

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