Star Trek: The Next Generation
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Quoted from Orko:Using the screws on the ramp?
There's a clear plastic 31-1803-25 that attaches to the top of the ramp. You screw the shuttle to the plastic (screws go up from underneath through the plastic into the shuttle), then screw the plastic to the ramp.
Shuttle attachment1 (resized).jpgShuttle attachment2 (resized).jpgQuoted from Pin_Guy:Branson makes an ultrasonic cleaner specifically for cleaning circuit boards.
Best Price is from All-Spec ... This is where I purchase the majority of my board work supplies.
Gallon $35.52 (minimum purchase $50)
https://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Chemicals-Cleaning-Supplies/Ultrasonic-Cleaners-Accessories/Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Solutions/100-955-914-6768
You can also get it from Amazon
Gallon $88
amazon.com link »
Quart $40
amazon.com link »
The main concerns with any ultrasonic cleaner used with electronics is to making sure you get all the water out of any switches on the board, and to have a cleaner with a sweep function if the board contains any type of crystal oscillator circuits (i.e. WPC CPU bords)
How long do you put a board in for? And what's the best way removing all the water - like the flipper relay switch on a WPC Power Driver board?
Thought I'd ask the club if anyone has an original translite in excellent condition they'd consider selling (having swapped it out for an alternate one)? I know there are repros available but prefer an original. Send me a PM
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Does the Pinshaker um, shaker... allow you to connect to more than one trigger at a time? The left ramp would also be awesome, and the borg ship flashers
Yes you can have multiple triggers (up to 8 I think), there’s a bank of dip switches to enable/disable the various triggers. They have information on their website as to the various triggers available for each machine.
Quoted from MikeSinMD:This game is new to me. The original 16 Opto board was replaced with a great lakes Opto board. I don’t have any paperwork for this board but This board has LEDs for each set of optos. I believe the Opto‘s are working because when I block them, a LED on the board goes out. Not sure where to go next? Where are these op amps/ comparators?
Does triggering the optos show up when in switch test mode?
Quoted from Brog319:This is by far my favorite pin, but man there’s always something to fix on it! Was hoping you guys could help me again. I just finished fixing a fluttering left flipper and after a few games it started having problems ejecting balls out of the ball trough and into the catapult launch. The solenoid fires fine (and when it supposed to) but sometimes it will take 5+ attempts before it gets the ball out over the top of the outhole assembly and into the gun launch. Could this just be bad alignment, weak solenoid, bad coil sleeve, something else? Thanks
Yes it could be any of those things - it’s just about troubleshooting the issue to diagnose the actual problem. For example can you freely move the plunger (eliminate the coil sleeve), can you manually kick the ball out of the trough (try to eliminate an alignment issue), go into solenoid test mode and test ejecting balls (could be a coil issue or bad coil stop). By eliminating some of the possible causes will help you work out the issue, and helps the experts on the forum to pinpoint the potential issue for you.
It’s just part of the hobby (& fun) of owning pinball machines....
Quoted from ajfclark:Finally got a chance to have a look at this and it didn't align with the pinout given in the manual?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I feel like the orange in 120-1 should be 120-2, the yellow in 120-2 should be 120-3 and The brown in 121-3 should be 121-1? That would explain why the insert and shields GI are swapped around at least, right?
Some of the others seem a bit out of place too? 120-7 and 120-8 should be 120-8 and 120-9? 121-9 should be 121-7?
Mine is as per the manual (except white-green on J121 which is in 121-8 rather than 121-10 as indicated in the manual)
Quoted from TimBoch:I use the pinside battery tracker too, but have also made a Google Sheets form to track the play of each machine and also include the date of battery change. I have never noticed a leakage issue with my lithium batteries and they are going strong after a couple years.[quoted image]
Do lithium batteries leak (like alkaline)? And if they do, does it cause any issues?
It is interesting checking out the game stats, how many games you put on machines and your average ball times. I also like comparing things like left vs right outlane drains and left vs right flipper usage.
Quoted from Pin_Guy:I personally use lithium batteries in everything that takes a battery and have for decades and have yet to see one leak. The current set of batteries in my STTNG were installed in November 2015, I never check them and don't loose any sleep over it.
Getting a good life out of them - maybe they're dilithium?? 
Quoted from gunstarhero:Next Gen absolutely has some weird lock rules I never quite figured out. Like lighting the Delta (borg) lock, or the one at the Neutral Zone. I did that the other day and was like, whaaaa?
I thought it was maybe if you didn't take a lock at launch and then hit the lock shot... but then I hit it and apparently not as far as I can tell.
Quoted from Pahuffman:This is only lit when you get multiball on 50% or less of your recent games. It's referred to as "Skill Lock" in the settings if I remember correctly.
Neutral zone I believe works in a similar fashion although the "Lock Lit" insert that points to the Neutral Zone was only written into the attract mode show and never into the actual game code. You can still lock a ball that way though.
Quoted from bobukcat:Skill Lock setting is actually used to control or disable how many times you can use the skill shot to lock a ball. I think the other NZ and Advance Rank locks are indeed used to help achieve whatever threshold is configured for MB% in the adjustments.
While browsing pinball related websites I came across mention of Ask Uncle Willy articles (answering questions the public sent in to Williams) and consequently found them nicely archived on PPS http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/Williams/archives/index.htm. Anyway in the 2nd issue (actually called Issue #1: June 23, 1995) it addresses the rules for the Neutral Zone lock and I recalled this being queried here on the owner's thread
Question: On Star Trek: the Next Generation, when does the Neutral Zone
"LOCK" light come on?
Answer: Warning, very dry, technical rules discussion ahead. Uncle Willy
says you may want to skip down to the next question.
The standup targets in the Neutral Zone either start one of the
Neutral Zone modes, or light "LOCK". Depending upon the current
percentage of multiballs on a particular ST:tNG, the "LOCK" is
lit on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th Neutral Zone sequence. The
"LOCK" is then lit every 4th sequence after that.
I haven't confirmed this yet on my machine but thought people would be interested - enjoy
Quoted from Xtraball:Awesome, glad you solved it. Now may I ask, when you hit the ball up the right side to the drop target, where does the ball go most of the time? Back down the right side to the upper flipper or does it fall thru a lane into the pops? Mine always seems to bounce hard off the drop and retreat back down the right side.
Never had that happen on mine, most of the time it'll go down one of the top lanes but sometimes it'll bounce off the top of the left most lane divider post and go into the top hole (as the drop target has been been pulled down)
Quoted from Jaybird815:Is this ship I circled part of a stock sttng or is this a mod? Mine has nothing in back left corner, Thanks[quoted image]
The original machine came with the Romulan Warbird (back left corner), Klingon Bird of Prey (left side), Borg ship (back centre) and shuttle craft (back right corner). Note in the picture the original shuttle craft has been replaced with one that predominantly appeared in Deep Space Nine. It is also common to replace the Warbird and Bird of Prey with Hallmark versions as they have more detail.
Edit: What everyone else said ... didn't see the thread had gone onto a new page of posts 
Quoted from Jaybird815:That pic I posted is not my sttng, I have all the original ships except the Romulan Warbird is missing, I’m wondering if I should go original or put one a modded one back there
I wonder if you'd be able to find an original ... then again people do swap it out for the Hallmark, so you'd probably be able to get one if you want to go that way
Quoted from misterman:I really need those steel lane extenders, the tip of previous plastic extenders broke off today on right outlane. Machine is now spanking me. Where can I find these? Pinbits says sold out.
That's what I first thought when I got my STTNG, but I resisted the urge to getting the lane extenders and just learnt to hit my shots more accurately and now have no need for them. So patience and practice, you'll get there. 
BTW congrats on the pickup, great looking examply you've got there and nice TZ as well (2 of my favourites that aren't leaving my collection)
Quoted from Pinless:What could cause the top drop target go move up and down rapidly during certain times in the game?
For example it may go up and down 5 or 6 times after a ball is launched.
Is the drop target correctly locking in the up position? Otherwise the micro switch on the drop target isn't sensing it in the up position - the machine is trying to continually push the target up.
In the picture below item 24 (also shown with the red arrow) is a clear plastic called an actuator guide, it holds the micro switch actuator arm in place to be triggered correctly by the target, sometimes if the guide is not there the actuator can get pushed sideways out of the way and then gets caught on other parts of the mech
Plastic Guide (resized).JPG
Quoted from Pin_Guy:A little high but not really that bad given how hard it is to find these anymore; you will also need the sensor cable assembly A-17064.
The way the Aussie dollar is falling, that board is getting cheaper by the day ....
I have Tangles sensor boards in my MB and have had no issues, works a treat
Quoted from SDVmnt:Holy crap. At first it looked like it was broken but looking further at your pictures actually it is definitely not installed right. I need to move the arm above the bar[quoted image]
Yes in your case that plunger would push the target into the up position and the switch would turn off, but once the coil deactivated the plunger and the metal arm would drop back down (leaving the target up). More that likely the switch would be closed again by the falling metal arm and machine would believe the target had failed to lock in the up position and would re-activate the coil to push the target up. This would continue until the machine disabled the drop target.
The switch activator arm should be activated by the tab on the back of target itself (shown by the red circle)
Drop target 1 (resized).jpg
Quoted from ArcadeDanger:Hey folks... past few weeks my STTNG developed a habit of resetting during a game. I went through the backboard, pushed down on the connectors, replaced the batteries while it was on, and it seems like that helped, played a few games, no problem.
Over the past couple of days, I moved the game and the problem is back, and seemingly worse - you start a game and it resets, and it continues to reset, never coming back. I unplugged it for the moment. I'll check voltages, but what else should I look for?
The reset doesn't seem to happen at any particular action in the game, it just seems random...
What you are experiencing is a common issue whereby the watchdog circuit monitors the 5 volt power and will reset the machine if the voltage drops below a preset value. Googling WPC 5v reset will give you a raft of links and information.
I found a post that the majority is word-for-word from "Repairing Williams/Bally WPC Pinball Games from 1990 to 1999" but it has some additional comments on pin pointing the problem that I found most useful. It's basic troubleshooting but broken down into the steps and well explained.
"+5 volts DC: TP2 (TP101 on WPC95). Should be 4.92 to 5.1 volts DC. If this is below 4.92 volts, the game will most certainly reset easily, as this is the voltage the "reset watchdog" examines. Often the problem is bridge rectifier BR2 (diodes D7-D10 on WPC95) and the related filter capacitor C5 (C9 on WPC95). Sometimes it could also be the +5 volt voltage regulator is failing (Q1 LM323K or LM317 on WPC95). Or it's very common for the input connector (J101 or J129 wpc95) or 5 volt to CPU board output connector (J114 or J101 wpc95) on the driver board. At this point do NOT remove/reseat the connectors!
This is very important. Removing or reseating the connectors will make finding the actual problem nearly impossible. So don't touch them yet!
Check for +5 volts on the CPU board. Yes I know, you checked the +5 on the driver board TP test point. But there are *two* connectors (or sometimes a third/fourth "Z" conector too) that go from the driver board to the CPU board. If these connector(s) are having problems, the +5 volts will be lower on the CPU board than it is on the driver board. The best place to test for +5 on the CPU board is right at the CPU board game EPROM pin 32 (the last pin). If the CPU board's +5 volts is even just a bit lower than the Driver board's Test Point +5 volts, that means the connector(s) between these two boards need to be re-pin'ed with new Trifurcon connector pins. This is very common and just re-pin'ing these two connectors can fix a lot of reset problems (without having to change any driver board parts).
Next reseat the right side driver board connectors J101. Power up and re-test the +5 volts on the driver board Test Point. If the voltage has gone up, then the input connector J101 is bad. Repin this connector with new Trifurcon connector pins. If it's the original connector (IDC), you will have to replace the connector housing too.
Recheck the voltage on the CPU board at the game ROM pin 32. Now reseat driver board connector J114 (J101 on wpc95) at the lower left. Recheck the CPU board +5 volts at game ROM pin 32. If the voltage has gone up, connector J114 needs to be replaced. Repeat this procedure for CPU board connector J210, and then repeat with the "Z" connector (if the game has one). Again if voltage changes after a connector reseat, the connector MUST be repinned with new Trifurcon connector pins. (And wire brush the male connector pins or replace them too.)
If the CPU and Driver board +5 volts are very close to each other and are 4.92 volts DC or higher, try this. Remove driver board +5/12 volt connectors J114 (power to CPU board), J116 (cabinet), J117 (backbox), J118 (playfield), and measure the 5 volts at TP2 on the driver board (on WPC95 connectors J101, J139, J138, J140/J141 respectively). If you still below 4.92 volts, BR2/C5/C4/LM323K regulator are the likely culprits. If the +5 volts goes up with these four connectors removed, one of the other boards/devices is dragging the +5 volts down. Replace the connectors one at a time to try and find the culprit."
Quoted from Mathazar:New personal best tonight - x3 Final Frontiers / x24 Missions, x14 Artifacts, and collected x4 Extra Balls along the way. All the parts I was waiting on to do a topside teardown/clean/shop job/wax (including new ramps and plastics!) have come in but I can't stop playing this pin.[quoted image]
With scores like that I think you should leave the game as it is
Quoted from ArcadeDanger:Voltage at TP2 (test point 2) on the Power Driver Board is 4.98vdc. (for ground I went to the plane screw cause I couldn't find the ground TP).
Voltage at the CPU board (ROM Pin 32) is measuring 4.93vdc. I did re-seat the connectors, the voltage at the CPU is now 4.95vdc. Given the difference it seems like I need to re-pin the connectors between these boards.
Where does one source 'trifurcon' connectors to re-pin the connectors?[quoted image]
To replace an original IDC connector to a trifurcon - you'll need trifurcon terminals, connector housing, and a good crimping tool to ensure a proper connection.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CT156T
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CF15613 (get the right sized housing to suit the connectors you're replacing)
https://www.pinballlife.com/search.html?Search=trifurcon (shows the various housing connectors and the terminals)
https://www.pinballlife.com/molex-crimp-tool-for-0156-terminals.html
Quoted from andrewket:Hey all...
Just purchased a STTNG. This will be the first time I’ve owned one, and it’s been on my wishlist for awhile. I haven’t played one in at least 10 years. The specimen I purchased is in very good condition. It was owned by a collector for a long time and had been shopped. I’m crossing my fingers that it doesn’t give me any problems ... at least for awhile. Sold an IJ to make room for it.
Congrats on the purchase - I have both IJ and STTNG, but think you've made the right choice Love my STTNG!!!
Quoted from holminone:Ok.... so..... just sayin.... but as top 100 superfan of the show (not verifiable, but I'm probably close), I can say with certainty... PINSOUND, and pinballshark's ultimate (and alternate) mix is in particular, is the GREATEST thing I've ever experienced in Pinball... Pinballshark gave the fans an incredible gift. It's really spectacular.
Probably doesn't hurt that I'm running RCA out from the pin sound board to a Nakamichi AV-2 receiver and bowers and wilkins speakers. It's literally STUNNING in its clarity and emotional reproduction. I got TEARS in my eyes TWICE when reaching final frontier... Cardassian Multi-ball is RIDICULOUSLY fantastic, as is Romulan Multiball now... And don't get me started on the Ferengi... wow.... Borg... perfect. Details, timing, volume builds... check. Lotta love and passion went into this. The videos on youtube while great don't do it justice.
Anyway... I read another post where someone regretted pinsound for the STTNG, and the ONLY scenario I can imagine someone having that reaction is if they weren't a fan of the original show or really just love the nostalgia of unmolested machines.
Thank you pinballshark !
Almost makes me want to go out and buy a Pinsound for mine
Quoted from Mathazar:While troubleshooting that multiball-ending-early issue, I gave the trough board and optos a look-see as eaglepin recommended. I found this mess at J1 that I now cannot unsee. Everything appears to be working so I'm not in a great hurry, but I've got to clean this up or it'll drive me nuts. There were a few other hacks I found during the shop job, but none as egregious as this![quoted image]
Well if you have any issues in the future, this is the first place I'd look! You can pick you replacement trough boards but you might need to look at the wiring loom and whether those wires are being used due to some dodgy wires in the original loom
Quoted from dmacy:Yes on the shield although this one here has the single unused wire clip. A lot of machines have that unused.
Edit: maybe just early production so things were robbed? But it is odd on all.
This game has FL-17636 flipper coils - weren't these only on prototype or early production games? As the switched to FL-11629 for the main release of the game
Quoted from Dreadreaper:Searched and can't seem to find a post about this: When I leave the machine alone during the ball launch selection, the selector keeps accelerating faster and faster between the ball launch options. It starts out at the normal speed, and the flippers aren't firing or anything like that. I recently installed a LCD colordmd, but the machine had a LED colordmd before. Is there a big power difference? Thanks.
It has nothing to do with having a colorDMD - it's just the way the game is
Quoted from ArcadeDanger:Another thing I discovered - seems like there is some screws that cut through the playfield (I'm guessing humidity and expansion/shrinkage in heat?). they're behind the flippers but what would you do to fix this?[quoted image]
They're flipper positioning holes, you align the bottom edge of the flipper to the hole. You can put a toothpick in the hole and rest the flipper on the toothpick when tightening the flipper bat - remove the toothpick afterwards
Quoted from ArcadeDanger:Always a fun adventure with STTNG - it's now complaining about 'CHECK SWITCH F4 - L. FLIPPER BUTTON'. Flipper is working fine, however, selecting items by pressing left button does not trigger it (Command Decision, Shuttle Craft through tunnels video mode - won't turn left).
I cleaned the optos on the left side with alcohol+qtip, but no fix. I did notice one of the resistors on the board got extremely warm to the touch. Do I have a fried opto and need to replace it? Is there something else I should check first?
Thanks as always!
The flipper opto boards have 2 switches - one switch is used for the lower flipper and the other switch is used for an upper flipper (if there is one - eg on the right side) and also used for other game features such as video mode, command decision etc. Try swapping the flipper boards and see if the problem now occurs on the right flipper - I'm guessing the upper flipper won't work. You can then either replace the flipper board as a whole (most pinball companies carry these) or you can try repairing your existing board. Maybe buy a set of new boards and drop them in to verify that you now have no other issues, and then you can work on repairing the faulty board to have a spare set.
Quoted from Pin_Guy:and 77 days (yep 11 weeks) later:
Arrived at facility
UNITED STATES
Date & time Wed 3 Jun • 6:40pm
LOL that beats mine (2 months to the US). Postal shipping from Aust is really poor atm as they mainly use passenger commercial flights which are currently almost non-existent, while the international couriers manage their own cargo flights to handle the load.
I'm interested to know how good the STTNG translite is compared to the original - is the sharpness of the image the same or better? I have seem some STTNG repros (not from MrPinball) that I thought weren't as sharp as the original and it put me off.
Quoted from BCpinhead:Thank you so much Captain Pin!! I was hoping you would be able to chime in, I have read many pages of this thread but not the entire thread combing of that EXACT PICTURE!! I have a lot to learn , just gotta get a dedicated space for rebuild and allocate some time. The unit has to come out of the machine. A few months ago I completed a tie-back mod, new tray opto board, played a few awesome games then....click...click...click wtf is that??!!!! Sadly, havent played it since but Im itching to play it now.. I will report back w progress.
Another issue on these drop target can be the micro-switch actuator arm alignment and position (sits below the tab protruding from the back of the drop target) and whether your drop target has the actuator guide (see the blue arrow in the diagram)
Plastic Guide1 (resized).jpg
In test mode, check if the target stays up (if not then this is the problemas Pin_Guy has mentioned) and check if the switch is correctly activating on dropping and raising the target (if the switch is correctly reporting the target position the game will try raising the target multiple times)
Quoted from Pin_Guy:Just giving a shoutout to MR. Pinball. I liked this translite enough to buy two more for different Bally/Willams machines and both are awesome! I did pay for 1 level higher shipping then the cheapest method and had them in about a week and a half ... I assume Australia Post must have resumed normal shipping once again.
Good to hear mate! Can I ask which translites you purchased?
Quoted from BCpinhead:Thank you for chiming in Manny75 for the advice above. The target does try to reset several times but fails to catch (for a few reasons above) I have to investigate and start by taking out the entire unit.
Q) on reassembly would you recommend using a tiny amount of super lube Teflon gel on the drop target slide (if that makes sense) ? Or leave the plastic channel /slide area dry?
Yep similar to Zitt 's comment, I'd clean all the parts thoroughly and replace anything that is looking worn/broken. There shouldn't be any need for lube on this drop target.
Quoted from holminone:Anyone know where to find a replacement spinner?
Seems everyone is out of stock (except for aftermarket spinner decal) from the searches I ran
Wasn't sure which part you needed to replace - below might help refine what you are looking for
A-17022 Spinner target assembly https://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/a-17022.html
01-11715 Bracket spinner target https://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/01-11715.html
A-17023 Wireform & target assembly https://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/a-17023.html
20-9922 Foil decal spinner target http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=PDG257 (these are aftermarket and not an exact match of the original)
Quoted from FireballAK:Just picked up The Next Generation. Looking for a spinner and bracket. Thanks
All retailers seem to be out of stock, so hopefully someone has a spare or is parting out a machine. Hope you can find one
Quoted from Zitt:Is this a temporary situation or do you think it's the beginning of "unobtainium" problem?
How many people really need this spinner assembly?
Well Planetary have done a run of the spinners in the past, but you wouldn't think there'd be much demand for the whole assembly. I certainly hate for my spinner to throw it in now, if there are no replacements ...
I think (or would hope) that there are enough STTNG's out there to warrant having these sorts of spares available, maybe we need to start lobbying Planetary to do another run of them??
Quoted from Aquapin:On boot my right cannon "re-homes" itself while my left just stays put. Is this a software thing or do I need to fine tune the switches? Everything appears correct in test mode.
At least one cannon will re-home, this is normal (mine is the same as yours with the right cannon being tested at startup). Pin_Guy posted some time back that this test might be due to all the switches on Column 9 being closed at startup and the game is verifying that the column is working.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/89#post-5766429
Quoted from Mathazar:I recently rebuilt the upper right flipper (new coil and sleeve, new springs, new prawl, new bat/rubber) and I find getting up the Delta ramp much, much easier now. I was getting up it and to the Borg ship fairly regularly before, but it would usually require hitting the ball as it's coming down the playfield to get the best speed to make it. Now I can make it up the ramp and to the Borg ship almost from a standstill where the ball is just hovering or moving very slowly near the upper right flipper bat.
The hit ball speed up the ramp is now way faster than before (which I initially thought was great). However, I've since noticed that about 2 times out of 10, the ball gets kicked back down the Delta ramp after hitting something when it turns the first right corner....and I think it's the divertor arm. I can't quite see it when it happens as it happens so fast and I'm usually still looking at the upper right flipper after just hitting the ball, and I've been unable to capture it clearly on video so far.
Could too fast of a ball speed up the Delta ramp mess up the timing of the divertor activation? I cleaned all of the optos a few months ago when I did a teardown/shop job, so I'm pretty sure the opto switch is ok. The new coil I put in is the same part number as the original OEM, i.e. not a bigger spec'd coil.
I've not seen a timing issue previously. I think the best way is to get someone to help in taking a slo-mo video when you're making the shot, this will help determine what is actually happening.
Quoted from Mathazar:OK - I think I've got it figured out. I couldn't capture this issue very well on video, so I had my son stand there and watch until I could do it a couple of times. He noticed that the ball was flying up the Delta ramp fast enough that it's actually catching air and doing one of two things: 1) flying all the way to the backboard and bouncing back down the Delta ramp, or 2) flying up in the air and hitting the mounting bracket for the Romulan ship and bouncing back down the Delta ramp.
I decided to make a "cover" for that portion of the Delta ramp to keep the ball from getting airborne and going too far off of the playfield. I had some PETG plastic laying around from a previous project, so I whipped out a proof of concept cover in about 20 minutes thinking that if this works, I'll make something nicer/better looking. Well....it appears to work well. I've been playing ST:TNG for the last 4 days (around 50 games) and no more issue with the ball getting kicked back down the Delta ramp if I hit it up there really hard.
Pretty pleased with the PoC - maybe someday I'll design and make something a bit more professional-looking but for now, I'm very happy.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Arhh a picture says a 1000 words - you're missing the plastic 31-1803-28 which covers exactly what you've manufactured. The cover you have on the lower part of the ramp isn't original, as the original goes from there all the way to the back corner. Here's a pic of a nice dirty one to make it easy to see
Replacements are available:
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GS-STTNG31-1803-28
or if you wanted to replace all the clear plastics (the delta ramp cover is the big one in the middle)
ebay.com link: Williams Star Trek the Next Generation pinball machine clear plastic set
Quoted from luckycreature:In the club as of yesterday. Time to start reading through this forum for all the fixes I'll need to do.[quoted image]
Welcome to the club!!
To be honest if you have no errors, just focus on playing the crap out of your machine
The only preventative maintenance would be the tieback - there are plenty of sites showing details (Google "STTNG tieback") here are a few:
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation#Diode_.22Tie_Back.22_missing_causes_8-Driver_Board_transistor_to_fail
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-tieback
There are various things that can fail on STTNG but I wouldn't worry about them until they do fail
- cannon wire looms are known to fail from the constant twisting
- there are a lot of optos used, especially in the VUKs for the cannons as well as the trough. These are prone to colder solder joints.
- the single drop target, on the right orbit above the pops, can sometimes need a bit of attention
Have fun!!
Quoted from luckycreature:Can you tell if mine is done already from these pictures or if I still need to do it? [quoted image][quoted image]
As Pin_Guy said it doesn't look like any tieback has been done.
Also check the drop target coil has the original 2 thicker purple-green and 1 thinner purple-green wire all coming from the same lug, but I'd suspect that it's as it came out of the factory.
Quoted from luckycreature:Guys I'm gonna do the zaza method of no soldering by attaching the wires direct in the head but I'm not 100 percent sure which purple wire I should be cutting away from the coils? Thanks for the help.
[quoted image][quoted image]
The thin one on the green coil - red arrows point to the wire and the terminal it is connected to
z (resized).jpgQuoted from Scoot:I have been chasing gremlins on my newly acquired STTNG all day and found this. Notice anything wrong with this picture?
[quoted image]
Diode direction needs to be swapped and the white-blue wires switched to the other terminal as well
Pinball switch with diode wiring (resized).pngQuoted from Cryland:Any one know how I can get a set of Extended Exit Lane Ball Guides? Another option is if someone has a set and can take a few measurements, I could make them myself.
Thanks
Charlie
KJS is selling them - send him a PM
Quoted from monkfe:thank you sir...but Marco out of stock....who else may have one?
I use https://www.pinballsearch.com/#gsc.tab=0 to search for parts from pinball suppliers around the world.
Unfortunately no one seems to be carrying replacement ball deflectors - these typically don't wear out and need replacement, so a low volume replacement component to make and stock. You may have success picking it up from a parted out machine or someone who happens to be carrying a spare - you should place a wanted ad on pinside and scourer the internet (Google, eBay ...). Note that the 01-11160 ball deflector is used on multiple machines Dracula, Popeye, No Fear, STTNG, Indiana Jones.
Quoted from Pin_Guy:This makes perfect sense as all the coils in the same group with the drop target are powered through J107-1 which is tied to F103. Not sure how you got to F105, but it doesn't matter since its irrelevant.
The melting coil was a symptom of a larger problem and not the actual cause, probably one or more shorted transistors on the aux driver board, and even these can be secondary failures of the original problem that can be as simple as a reversed ribbon cable or broken tieback wire.
Please take a look at the information in this forum:
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation
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Hey Pin_Guy did your second pic come from the PB schematics (that shows J107-1 is tied to F103)?
Guessing the STTNG Op Manual is wrong and F103 should say Solenoids #37-#40 - right?? This would make more sense ... I enjoyed trying to work out this one myself, but got thrown off by the manual. Clearly pays to double check the schematics
STTNG Power Driver Fuse List (resized).JPGSTTNG Solenoid-Flasher Table (resized).JPGQuoted from Cheeks:This is exactly what happened.
Thanks for this. I checked my game and there is a tie-back going from the larger drop target up coil to J4-1 on the 8-driver board. For reference, it was the small drop target down coil that burnt. I checked continuity from the large coil lug to J4-1 and it checked. I also checked continuity from J107-1 to J4-1 and it checked as well. So, it seems the wiring is OK.
If I put a fuse in F103 and power on, it blows and the game entire game resets. If I disconnect either J4 or J107, the fuse does not blow (and the game boots fine). Any ideas where to go next?
And on the other issues with the switch rows, I determined it was a faulty ribbon cable (the one that connects in 4 places).
I'm no expert here ... still got my training wheels on, although I'd be checking the diodes and transistors on the 8 Driver PCB, but best wait for one of the guys who really knows this stuff - hopefully they'll be along shortly and we can all learn.
Quoted from Jherre6:Quick question, I have a game that’s randomly throwing switch errors. Looking at the switch the contacts are good. Going into the test menu, the switch registers fine, but the error doesn’t go away unless I factory rest. Always a different switch.
Why would the factory reset only clear it, and are there any suggestions you guys have? Latest code, btw.
Thanks as always.
If the game does not see a switch activated over a certain number of games/balls it'll flag it as an error, however sometimes it is simply because that shot hasn't been made and there is nothing wrong with the switch. Although I thought going into switch test and confirming it works would normally clear the error and definitely not require a factory reset. You mention that the particular switch registers fine in the switch test, does it also work correctly during game play? Also you mention that it's always a different switch, have you taken note of which specific switches they've been (just trying to looking for some correlation)?
Quoted from Cheeks:the burnt drop coil is SM1-26-600, and it's totally fried. So, it's hard to tell if the center is supposed to come out or if it's just melted in there. From looking online, it looks like this small coil has the center "pin" permanently connected, since this is how it screwed onto the bracket. Correct?
Correct it comes with a built-in core. The coil magnetises the core and pulls in the actuator, that pushes the drop target off the target stop
Quoted from Baron_VonLoppnow:Hi all -- this weekend I am going to check out a ST:TNG that likely hasn't been played much or maintained much over the past 15+ years. Any advice on likely trouble spots / issues to look for prior to potentially making an offer? I don't have experience working with / maintaining ST:TNG, but it certainly has a reputation of being a very-high maintenance pin. Thx!!!
The things that typically fail on a STTNG can be easily repaired. I'd checked it out like all pins
Cabinet
- check the structural integrity (cab corners, base, any water or rodent damage)
- cab artwork (replacement cab decals are available)
- condition (rails, lockdown bar and receiver, inside of the cab - dirty is typical but look for rusty or dented parts)
- check the back of the translite for any scratches or damage (replacement translites are available)
- check the speaker panel for any scratches or damage (replacements are available)
- if the machine is not working then check all the boards are in the backbox
Playfield (the PF itself is probably the most important thing)
- any damage from flipper drag or from using old rusty balls
- raised inserts and if so is there any associated damage
- check for broken plastics, ramps and toys (Klingon, Romulan, Borg and shuttle ships)
- the overall condition of the PF (dirty is ok but look for rusty, broken or missing parts)
Operation
- check if the credit dot is displayed. If so what are the errors?
- check the DMD (is it an original plasma DMD, if so run the display test for missing lines and any dim areas of the display)
- in test mode check all the solenoids, switches (you may not be able to reach some), lamps & flashes, sound
- check the 2 rotating cannons work and fire the ball
- play some games (it's better if you have previously played the game so that you know what to expect however it's not a big deal)
STTNG typical issues but these aren't that hard or expensive to fix
- cannons
- the optos in the VUKs to the cannons and the trough can have issues causing the game to have issues tracking where the balls are
Quoted from Pinless:Here are some random pictures of my top drop target assembly.
I was having some issues that I believe were related to the switch arm being too short and getting stuck under the metal plate.
The arm that pushes the drop target to drop it down was also farther away than it should have been.
There are some side by side pics of a new assembly next to the original assembly.
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The reason the actuator arm on the drop target coil is sitting too far out is that the bracket is broken - see the red circles compare the original with the new assembly. Part is A-14913 the long slim piece of steel on the bracket is bent around to hold the actuator arm in place - this bit tends to break off (like on yours). Note some to the replacement version of this part don't have the brass ring (used near coils to stop becoming magnetised) so I'd go one like this http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPS-A-14913
Also you original drop target has a home made reset plate (blue circle), which you should replace at the same. Part is 01-10380
I don't think the switch actuator arm is too short, rather you may need to adjust the angle to the switch such that the actuator arm is lower (note the position of the 2 switch arms between the old and new drop targets - see the green cricles)
I would say that my STTNG is one of my more reliable machines, not that I've had major failures on any of my machines. I've had my game for 4 years and the only thing I've had to do was reflow the optos in the left VUK and adjust the drop target switch. I don't really think of these sorts of things as anything major, more just typical pinball maintenance
Quoted from midcoastsurf:Head is off and almost ready for its maiden voyage to the basement. I tried taking the playfield out...but heavier than expected. Holy crap. Excited to start repairing and cleaning up my first STTNG.[quoted image]
Congrats! looks like you've scored a very nice one and such a fun game to play
Quoted from mrossman5:Could anyone do me a favor and post a picture of the back drop target switch wiring? Mine has stopped working and it seems the two green wires came off.
Thanks so much!
Both green wires go to the middle switch terminal
Drop Target Switch (resized).JPGPinball switch with diode wiring (resized).pngQuoted from Mathazar:My 17-year-old son and I went for it....taking our STTNG down to the basement with both the head on and the playfield in and letting gravity do its thing. Two really tight turns and more than once I thought it was stuck and mentally thinking of a backup plan to call for help. In the end, it came down unscathed and we both breathed a big sigh of relief. I did take the railings off the wall to get a couple extra inches of clearance.
Good thing I love this pin....no way in hell I'm taking it back upstairs. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
That's a fair effort - it would certainly discourage rotating your games on a regular basis. Nice line up - the old and new of each (actually you could add a 3rd one to each of those themes )
Quoted from Rkrall:Thanks, this actually looks like it might be a bad spring, not pulling the drop target down quick enough!
The speed the drop target comes down shouldn't matter, however sometimes the drop target will become gummed up and just needs to disassembled and cleaned for it to slide easier. Make sure the switch arm is below the plastic tab on the plastic drop target
Drop target assembly (resized).jpg
Also you should have a plastic actuator guide (number 24 on the diagram and also shown with the red arrow), which keeps the switch arm correctly in place
Plastic Guide (resized).JPGQuoted from SantaEatsCheese:Diverter help:
Okay, my top left back diverter has been acting weird. I have not hit borg lock in ages, and got the bong, so decided to investigate. The electronics work, but the shaft is hard to move. I lubed it up the best I could but can't actually get it to come apart to clean it properly. I took the coil out, replaced the sleeve, and removed those two weird allen wrench screws from within but even with those out the diverter doesn't turn freely left and right and is meeting resistance. Is there something else that can be done to adjust this? Thanks!
Could you try using some WD-40 or soaking it in some petrol to free it up?
Quoted from Pin_Guy:WD-40 should never be used on any part of a pinball machine, you just need to take it apart and clean it, when you put it back together, use a tiny bit of PTFE grease to lube the shaft.
You are going to have to remove this mech from the machine to clean it properly; you should only have to take out the coil stop to remove the coil from the mech and just let it hand on the wire harness, then remove the six screws attaching it to the bottom of the playfield and the whole thing will come right out. Once you have it out you will be able to see how it works better, you may have to twist the diverter arm back and forth while pulling it out of the sleeve, but it will come out. Make sure you sure to use a bore brush and the degreaser of your choice to get all the gunk out of the shafts sleeve.
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My comment was associated with the query on trying to get it apart - if it's gummed up / rusted you may need something to penetrate the joint to help pulling it apart. Once it's disassembled you'd thoroughly clean (and potentially polish depending upon your level of OCD) the item which would remove any residue.
I agree you shouldn't use WD-40 as a lubricant in a machine.
Quoted from Jherre6:You know I saw that, but those aren’t new boards add those? Just looking at all the options.
Yes https://pinballbasement.com/collections/wpc89-boards are new boards made under license - "Genuine Williams and Bally Replacement Boards – Authorized by Planetary Pinball Supply, Inc, under License from Williams Electronics Games Inc, © 2020, All Rights Reserved"
Quoted from Rkrall:Hello, still having random top drop target issues (ball lock on trigger fire doesn't always count lock but does light lock).
Quoted from Rkrall:To add to this, holodeck doesn't launch either at times when plunged. Both always work when shot with flipper!
Lock will be lit by dropping the drop target (switch #57), whereas getting the actual lock or launching holodeck is triggered by the top hole opto (switch #45). Can you check that switch 45 is working - in switch test mode drop a ball in the top hole, you will get multiple switches being triggered as the ball goes through the subway however the first switch triggered should be 45. I'm wondering whether the game is compensating for a failed switch during game play, but not at ball launch.
Quoted from Rkrall:Thanks I'm almost ready to rip that entire thing out and clean/resolder everything!
Thought you had already fixed your drop target - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/97#post-5983872
If it is still causing issues, then the easiest way to work on it is to remove the entire mech and give it the full once over
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:My machine is MISSING this part. Can anyone help me with the PART NUMBER or NUMBER (s) of what this is?? Star Trek Next Generation outer loop gate.
I have the manual and everything, but can't identify the part. Also I know the gate is a "one way" gate. Certainly I would be interested to know how this might impact game play and such.
Thanks all you super cool pin people!!!
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It's A-16959 Switch Gate Assembly - shown as #41 on the Upper Playfield Parts Location Page 2-36 of the manual
STTNG upper PF parts (resized).JPG
Here's a picture of it from the Parts Catalog
Doesn't look like any of the pinball suppliers carry this gate, you might want to create a wanted post in Pinside marketplace as someone might have parted out a machine ...
Not having it wouldn't overly impact gameplay, potentially a ball bouncing around above the top lane rollovers or a slower hit right orbit could go incorrectly down the left orbit rather than through the top lane rollovers into the pops, however I wouldn't think that this would happened that often
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:There are (4) lighting circuits within the ship. Left Flashers, Center Flashers, Right Flashers, and Borg Ship (inside) itself. None of this lighting is on any other rows or column.
The Borg ship lamps are #78 on the lamp matrix while the flashers aren't controlled lamps.
However you're correct the lamps don't seem to be used during game play (unless it's in conjunction with the Borg Flashers during Borg MB but without removing the borg ship I can't tell). Whether this was an oversight or the coders decided not to leverage them to make Borg MB more special we'll probably never know.
STTNG Lamp Matrix (resized).JPGQuoted from Pin_Guy:I don't believe you can find these teal inserts anywhere anymore.
Since I was doing a full restoration that involved stripping EVERYTHING from the playfield, I just replaced it with new.
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPS-36-50023&Category_Code=GS-2357
Looks like the new playfield doesn't have the teal inserts anymore either.
Looks like MrPinball (Aust) and PPS now have them in stock, although I've not seen them in person to know how the colour compares to the original teal
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PP&Product_Code=PPS-50-26-25&Category_Code=INS
https://shop.mrpinball.com.au/product/playfield-insert-cresent-transparent-teal/
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:Our family joined the club a couple of weeks ago. I have a Stern Star Trek Pro and the entire family loves STTNG more including my 15 year old.
It looks to be in pretty good condition but needs to have the rubbers changed out and probably a really good cleaning. I think everything works currently.
Are there things that I should do to this game to prolong its life? Someone told me that there are board repairs that need to be done to preemptively fix it. I was hoping someone could give me an idea of what is involved along with anything else that I need to do to make it more reliable down the road.
They're most likely talking about the tieback - if you google STTNG tieback you'll find a raft of links
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation#Diode_.22Tie_Back.22_missing_causes_8-Driver_Board_transistor_to_fail
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-tieback
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:Any good decals or mods that make this cooler looking?
Also should all the ugly switches on the playfield have grey covers?
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I've never seen the switch covers installed on a STTNG however there are decals to cover alot of the bare steel on the playfield
Zitt sells these http://pinball-mods.com/oscom/game-specific-products-williams-star-trek-the-next-generation-stng-vukbracket-dressing-p-25.html
STTNG (resized).jpgQuoted from PinJim:Good call on the tie-back mod. I’d do the cannon looms too if they are older. And have a bunch of optos on hand...
Yep really depends upon the condition of the machine, some STTNG's seem to be quite troublesome in which doing these can be quite fortuitous, although mine has been pretty good (only had cracked solder joints on the VUK optos). I guess it depends how much you want to bulletproof your machine upfront versus fix it if/when something fails, of course failures mean troubleshooting the issue but at least with those you haven't burnt out any coils and transistors.
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Current mod for the STTNG pin restoration also the newly painted Borg Ship by Back Alley Creations (they totally rock!)
The backboard image was custom created in Photoshop and printed by Walmart photo.
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Oh having two birds of prey looks cool!
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:The inserts have gone from teal to clear on replacement playfields in the past 20 or so years as teal inserts are no longer available from anyone. Anytime you see those it is a preproduction playfield.
I believe the teal ones are now available again - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/100#post-6047931
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Thank you everyone. Here is the website which has them. Planetary Pinball
When I had the game 15 years ago, nobody knew what LED bulbs were. And recently I didn't notice what the shields looked like before I turned everything off, and began the restoration. The LEDs now in the machine are blue flex ones. So certainly the bulb color will influence the results.
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The insert used for the shields in STTNG is part number 50-26-25 (the top image). Don't use the 50-26-11 (bottom image) as that is the wrong part/colour.
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:This is likely a dumb question, so go ahead and laugh at me....What is the purpose of the round colored lens in the corner of the playfield on STTNG??
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The red insert under the apron was put there for testing purposes to test the strength of the adhesion of clearcoat on the playfields, some playfields of a run were scratched over the inserts. They originally did this test on some of the actual playfield inserts which of course ruined the playfield, so it was more cost-effective to add an extra insert to every playfield in an invisible place. That way playfields used for testing could still be installed in games.
Here is some information on the various PF manufacturers, their process and identification stamps https://www.flippers.be/pinball_playfields.html
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Have a "Lock is Lit" question. You hear this a lot in game play. "Lock is Lit". I see (2) green inserts which are labeled "LOCK". However neither are actually lighted. Lamps work fine.....so what gives? Are there "several different types of "LOCKS"? [quoted image]
Firstly check that all 3 lock lamps work in test mode - there are the 2 green Lock inserts on the PF (right orbit and neutral zone) and a 3rd Lock lamp on the Delta Quadrant ramp.
Shoot the right orbit and knock down the drop target to light the right orbit lock and then shoot the orbit again to lock a ball.
The other 2 locks have more software rules that determine when the light or not. The delta ramp "skill lock" will only light if you have achieved multiball in less than a defined percentage of your recent games (default is 20%). Sometimes the ramp light comes on once you have one ball locked and you light lock the 2nd time. Also I think if you shoot the skill lock, the right orbit lock will remain lit.
Lock at the Neutral Zone (NZ) can be lit by lighting the NZ for one of it's multiballs - completing the round, then lighting the NZ again. But again I think it might also depend whether you are below the defined percentage of games that multiball are achieved in.
Quoted from Pin_Guy:Both the Ankeny and West Des Moines Operating rooms are open; the owner is a distributor for Stern, JJP and American Pinball so he has all the latest games on location. JJP GNR LE is at the Ankeny Location. I maintain the machines at the Ankeny location so they should all have the latest code and play flawlessly
Typical Sunday morning crowd at the Ankeny Location:
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That's an impressive lineup of machines - how often are you having to there to fix issues?
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Upon putting the CPU board back in, I plugged the ribbon cable J204 (left side of Board in backwards).
Feel you pain mate. Someone did this on an IJ just in the last week, so seems to be a common issue - because the ribbon cables are not keyed, you need to check you are connecting pin1 to pin 1, to make it easier they have a red line on the ribbon cable for pin 1.
So just to confirm all your other solenoids and flashers are working, it's just the top underplayfield diverter? In which case you need to check Q16 driver and Q8 pre-driver
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Underplayfield diverter top, underplayfield diverter bottom, drop target up, drop target down. Gonna get out the multimeter tonight.
Thanks all!
Also check if your Romulan Flashers (J3-2) and Right Ramp Flashers (J3-3) are working as well
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:May I suggest something simple. You are NOT ready to power your game on yet. Read the suggested stuff (You need to translate to English) but this is the BIBLE of repair.
NOTE: There is a list of stuff to do, BEFORE ever powering up a 27 year old game. This LINK, is a 3 PART series. Tons of information, photos ect. Read ALL 3.
and there isn't any shame in the game, to call for help from someone locally.
Be honest everyone, we all have, so no shame to do that. However READ and absorb all of this cool stuff.
http://steffe.net/stuff/flipper/PINBALL%20%20Repair%20Williams,%20Bally%20Pinball%20Games%201990-1999%20part%20one.htm
Might be easier reading the English version of Clay's guide .... they are still floating around out there.
That said I think Pinwiki is pretty good these days https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Whelp, it's worse now.
I put the 8pcb back together with a new TIP102 in Q16, installed the tieback mod, and fired her up with the playfield up.
No smell! Coil that was melting (top playfield diverter) is cool.
Go to the menu, do the solenoid test, last 4 solenoids and last 2 flashers still don't work.
Turn it off. Check fuses, throw a replacement fuse 103 in (was left out for 1st test).
Turn it on with playfield up... no smell, coil stays cool. Look around the playfield to run solenoid test, screen isn't on. Turn it off, see 103 is blown, remove it. Lower playfield, turn it back on to see if screen pops back on, fuse 104 and 105 immediately pop.
I now have a dead machine. I am going to think on this one but at this point I may have to have someone come over or sell it at a discount as I think it's beyond me. I'm going to think on it a week.
I am open to suggestions but at this point I'm going backwards.
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Ok so you have a Rottendog CPU and Fliptronics board - good to know.
You can start with the very basics. I'd disconnect the PD connectors at J106 and J107 and (J108 shouldn't be used), these are associated with F103, F104 and F105, and the DMD controller connector J605 then power up your machine to check if everything else is working. Verify the CPU LEDs (not sure if Rottendog has the same as the original WPC89), check the LEDs and measure the voltages of the Power Driver board Test Points, check the D10 LED on the DMD Controller board is on and did you get one audio "bong" when powering on (this confirms the audio board is good). If everything is good so far, power off check fuses F601 and F602, plug in J605 and power on - does the DMD work? If not, are one of the 2 fuses blown? If not you'll need to check the voltages of J604 - these are high voltages and best read https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Testing_DMD_Controller_Power
This will help get you back to a known point from which we can work from. We want to get the DMD back working before we start on the solenoids
Let us know how you go - while it can be frustrating, we're all here to help you.
Shows the LEDs on the boards and their expected behaviour - more detailed info can be found here https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Power-On_LEDs_and_Sound_Tones_.28Bongs.29
Shows the Test Points (TP) and the associated voltages that are expected - courtesy of Pin_Guy
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:That would explain the behavior that caused F103, F104, and F105 to all pop about the same time.
Now the question is... why isn't the blanking circuit working?
I'm not so sure - remember that you have a Rottendog CPU board so not sure if it is "exactly" the same as the original WPC is regards to what should be expected. There seems to be a brief flicker of D19 as D21 turns on, but all the rest is as expected, just not sure if this is what happens on a Rottendog. Is your TZ CPU board an original WPC or a Rottendog? If it's a Rottendog how do the diag LEDs behave?
My suggestion would be to swap the CPU board over from the TZ to confirm it the CPU board is an issue - leave J107 disconnected initially to avoid any issues.
Quoted from midcoastsurf:Pulled F114 out of game and it tests good.
I’ll replace F904, F104, new connector on J115 and report back.
UPDATE: Geeeeeez, I feel like an idiot. It helps when your ribbon cable is hooked up. I left it disconnected to tuck wires behind it and didn’t see it behind the wires. [quoted image]
LOL I looked at the schematics after reading your original post and the only thing I could come up with was J113 but thought that's not right because you wouldn't need to touch the ribbon cables if taking the head off, so didn't post anything. Anyway I'm glad you got it sorted
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Ok all you brilliant Star Trek Next Gen Pinball owners...please allow me to ask a (hopefully not stupid) question. For years I have seen STTNG pinball machines with some variation of this.
A washer installed on the Cannon. Sometime only (1), on one side. Sometime several, sometime none at all. What is the purpose??? Is it needed to help raise the Cannon entry to the wire rail? Is it to help "level" the cannon? If it's between the base and cannon mounting, ok. But I have also seen the washer on TOP, for what purpose???
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The red arrow points to the plate on the gun shaft (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-17080) but with the washer at the front they're tilting the cannon up a little - maybe the cannon was firing the ball into the PF and making it impossible to shot the scoops??? I don't see any purpose of having the washer on the top, unless the screw they were using was too long and it's to stop the thread from catching the plastic underneath
Mine doesn't have any washers and none are mentioned in the manual
Quoted from Pin_Guy:Not a stupid question at all as the washer seems to have no purpose at all; however, it actually serves a very important function.
AND THE ANSWER IS:
When the cannon is siting in its parked position as it normally is the washer does nothing, however, when the cannon swings out to the firing position a gap large enough to catch a ball is crated between the cannon and the wireform ramp when the cannon is returning to home. These washers creates a small extension in front of the cannon that will push any ball trapped there back onto the playfield. Without this washer, if a ball is trapped there and the cannon returns, the ball will jam between the wireform ramp and the cannon; there are lots of issues with this as the cannon won't reach home and the motor/gearbox will continue to try and get it there.
I would have to guess that the game manuals were printed before this fatal flaw was discovered which is why the washer is not shown in the manual; that being said, it is listed in both the Williams Green Parts catalogue and the full parts list.
Links:
http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_Green_16-9932/files/mobile/index.html#298
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2357/Williams_1993_Star_Trek_The_Next_Generation_Parts_List.txt
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I actually tested this when I had the cannon drive arm disconnected and its a brilliantly simple fix to what could have been a major issue.
For further clarification, the washer should be on top of the gun housing as shown below.[quoted image]
In the words of Picard, "Brilliant"!!
I wonder when this issue was found, as there is no Service Bulletin relating to this yet my machine doesn't have the washers (unless someone took them off). Does anybody else not have them or have seen games without them?
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:I have posted before on my "MISSING OUTER LANE ONE-WAY GATE".. And through help of several cool Pinside Pin People, determined that there are (2) pieces which comprise the part.
The A-16959 Switch Gate Assembly: which is 01-11688 mounting bracket and a 12-7118 Wireform.
Nobody has this part I have discovered. And so I took the suggestion to order something "close". Macro had something and went with that. Here is the detail. The "wire" is nearly unbendable, and any adjustments to it just breaks it. So with creative design, and put a screw into the side (and NO, I am too embarrassed to show the photo). Needless to say, it works and stops the ball. If you DON'T have the gate, the machine works, but can get confused related to the location of the ball.
Final note: With the correct part ( I had one on a STTNG machine 10 years ago), the ball slides off down into the 3 lanes. Mine isn't quite right, and the ball can sometimes get STUCK there.
SO my quest is to find the part, and as you can imagine, it's in a hard to get to location, under the Borg Ship!!!
Anyone with a thought, direction or resource would be appreciated.
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My suggestion would be to put an advert in the wanted marketplace - you just never know someone might have a parted out machine or have a partially populated PF with one on. No harm in posting one and there are a few overseas guys that sells parts who watch the wanted section
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Stack Brackets for stand up targets, huh! Ok, I will check into that. The ball must hit the right side of the RIFT target enough, it shoves it over.
You the Man!! Thanks
ADDED: Here is the Bracket you mentioned. Says it's for Stern, however I wonder if it would work for NEXT GEN
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The 3D bracket for these older Stern targets doesn't fit B/W targets. Normally you don't have the leaning issue with the B/W standup targets - Stern's targets were notorious and hence the after-market bracket was made, although now Stern have an anti-lean bracket on standups in all their new machines.
Quoted from midcoastsurf:Can finally start a game now that trough opto is fixed.
All 3 flippers are super weak. I cleaned the flipper board opto and checked and cleaned both EOS switches. Flipper coils only getting 20vDC. Trough kick out coil is at 70vDC. All other coils seem strong.
Check the BR on the fliptronics board - it gets 50V AC from the transformer (via J102 -> J104 on the Power Driver board) and converts to 50V DC specifically for the flipper coils
The other PF coils use a separate BR on the Power Driver board.
WPC Fliptronics (resized).JPGQuoted from Eric_Manuel:Thanks Mr Mikeman. For whatever reason the schematic wasn't very clear enough to read, however it's appreciated it was provided. Understand all of the LED and GI OCD info, and why they do it that way. Yes, the machine came from France is my guess, based on the coin door slots and inserts.
Certainly you have a great amount of experience with the hardware in pinballs. Even though I have rebuilt 14 machines, I am still learning, every single day.
Understand what boards get what volts in the header, just couldn't understand why hacking wires, and such are left that way in a machine. Speaking of lazy techs, wow. As I am going through the machine, INSTEAD of replacing the connector on a Power Driver Board, (you know the ones which always burn up), this dude spliced wires into the board and connected them directly to the wires, bypassing the burned up connectors all together.
The word "BAD" was written in the corner of (3) boards. So based on this, and all of the poor conditions throughout, I replaced the bad board, one being the Power Driver Board.
Again, appreciate the time it took you to step through the power line uses coming out of the transformer. Thank you
Hey Eric - just as an FYI as the guys have said you can set the input voltage depending upon your specific country using jumpers on the 9 pin connector from the transformer (later WPC models use a 12 pin connector on the power box to set the voltage). Anyway here are the 2 pinouts (on the board side of the connector) for 115V US and 230V EU for your reference https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Early_WPC_Transformers_.289_pin_connection.29 Note that what has been done on your machine is to cut and join the transformer wires before the 9 pin connector - this effectively is doing the same thing as the jumpers however it's hatchet job.
The only way you could change this back to looking normal would be to redo all the connections to the 9 pin connector and do the jumpers at the connector. It would shorten the leads from the transformer (you'd firstly check you have enough length) and you'd only do this if you were COMPLETELY comfortable with what you were doing and how the wires should be connected.
Quoted from sparksterz:Alright...thinking I must not be having trough issues. Or at least it doesn't seem too likely to me. Here's my rationale:
I took a spare Wyze cam I had and plopped it under the playfield and played through to Borg multi-ball twice on two different games and didn't see any unusual behavior (unfortunately). My LEDs appear to be on, the emitter for ball 3 does look a little weak to me, but I didn't see them flicker at all during the entire couple games. No balls hung up on divots either. The only unusual cases are when the ball fails to pop out of the trough and make it into the shooter lane. The ball then makes it all the way to the start of the trough and rolls back down. It's possible that might be causing issues...I'm not ruling that out yet.
I've got a video and a night vision shot of the trough emitters with the camera: [quoted image]
What problem do you have or are trying to solve?
In regards to the trough kickout failing occasionally, check the tip of the coil plunger is not worn or you may need to adjust the ball guide at the kickout hole that deflects the ball into the shooter lane - taking a slo-mo of the kickout and comparing one that fails to others that makes it can help work out what is happening.
Quoted from sparksterz:The issues I outlined here in post #5111
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/103#post-6088852
Sometimes a ball drain isn't registered, sometimes a lock that wasn't lit in the neutral zone is registered and times when it wants me to randomly launch a probe from the right gun. Everyone almost always points to trough...but I think mine is subway related.
I'll check the tip of the plunger though, thanks!
To me the trough kickout not always managing to put the ball in the shooter lane is a mechanical issue and is unrelated to the other issues you are seeing.
The other 3 issues you've mentioned seem quite varied - could possibly be switch/opto related or alternatively the CPU board. I see that you have a Getaway HS2 in your collection - try swapping over the CPU board (changing out the game ROM) and see whether it fixes any of the issues.
Quoted from Kjarkur:Like your yellow plastic protectors. I have replaced the clear ones by light blue.
The printed ones are a bit tricky. Especially the ones under the vuk gun ramps. Did they fit without issues? I have made new printed plexis out of lexan 0.5mm strength. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I really like the light blue - looks great!!
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:For those who have PinSound, you already know it's certainly a drastic, huge upgrade for all pinball machines, especially for STTNG. That said, thought I'd help the subwoofer out some.
Like a home speaker, I gave mine an enclosure to call home.
The bass response was increased, in addition to keeping things out of the subwoofer cone.
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I've not seen this done before - it's a great idea. I wonder if any of the audio savy guys have done any testing as to the optimal box size and whether a ported box would be better
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Manny65
I don't actually know. Seriously I wouldn't want the box to be any larger, as the Drop Target adjustment screw is extremely close when moving the playfield. On porting or installing a hole, I truly don't know. I'm not an audio guy. However at least the box prevents dirt, screws, solder and tools from having an accident with the speaker cone. Anyone who works on the machine, mods and tweaks and do add-ons will know the hazard.
If there had been more room, possibly some sound dampening material inside the box would be a plus. However the box was installed fully assembled, and that was such a tight fit, anything larger would have been impractical.
It's the volume of air in the speaker box that is important, so you don't need the box to be higher (as you indicated you don't have much room with the mechs under the PF) but the box could potentially be wider or deeper. If going a ported box then the hole size is important and determines the frequency being enhanced.
Quoted from MrMikeman:It'll never sound as good as an external powered subwoofer, and one of those can support multiple games too. I went crazy stupid once with a gigantic sub& on a WWF Royal Rumble. There was gale force wind coming out around the lockbar and you could see the glass flexing up and down in the middle. Still didn't sound as good as an external sub and lot's of rattling to eliminate.
True an external sub is specifically designed for optimal audio performance, however putting the cabinet speaker in a speaker box would definitely improve the sound (one of the main issues is the volume of air in the cabinet as you experienced). It just depends how much you want to spend on the audio side - Pinsound, Pinwoofer (amp), Speakers, external sub .... 
Quoted from MrMikeman:Here is my tight fit when I had the WWF-RR. An enclosure would not have been possible in this case without reducing the size of the sub. (it was a 10 incher)
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yep tight fit with a 10" sub .... that'd blow ya socks off lol
Quoted from Phantasize:I had the same issue. Turned out to be a bad ribbon cable. The design is bad, because if one of the data lines loses connection, that triggers the coil to fire. So a bad connection or a bad ribbon cable can cause this.
I saw a fix for this at some point, but have been unable to find it. It involved adding pull-up (or down?) resistors to the datalines. Does anybody have a link?
It's in Pinwiki under game specific issues - it's after the tie-back fix (there's not a direct link to it)
Edit: Oops, what Eric said lol
Quoted from Phantasize:Thank you! That was exactly what i was looking for. In my book that is nearly as important as the Tie-Back mod (which I already did, the correct way )
Yes ribbon cables and their connection in general can be a common issue and the last thing you want is to damage boards. It's a good reminder as I should check whether mine is done
Quoted from Mathazar:Oy....I'm down a rat hole now. Was going to have a look around in Settings to check the LIGHT LOCK setting and I can't get into the settings now. None of the 4 service buttons on the coin door are acknowledged, including the two volume control buttons. Machine otherwise starts a game and plays normally, and properly cuts off solenoid power when the coin door is open. Doubtful that all 4 button/switches would fail at once, and wiring looks to be direct from the coin door interface board to the CPU board. Reseated J1 and J3 on the Coin Door Interface board and J205 on the CPU board - connectors look good, still no joy.
Any suggestions?
Looking at the schematics, the coin door interface board simply passes the connectivity through for the diag switches from J1 to J5 (Page 3-3 of the manual states J1 and J3 but that is wrong - I double checked on my machine and the orange-xxx wires for the coin door switches go in and out of J1 & J5).
I'd suggest testing the CPU board first by jumping the pins on J205 - Pinwiki is a good reference to troubleshooting this issue https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Direct_Switch_Problems
Quoted from Mathazar:Yep, that's where I was going, too. During one of my breaks from work I set up some jumpers on J205 and I am indeed now able to get into Setup, navigate, and adjust volume from there. Need to get back to work....next step later tonight is to check continuity in the wire harness from J1 on the Coin Door Interface PCB to J205 on the CPU and keep working my way backwards.
Yep there's not a lot that can go wrong on these - CPU board, wire or switch. Given all 4 switches are inoperative I'd be looking at the ground wire and connectors
Quoted from mappy24:So like this? It looks as though somone before me has wired the switch up wrong by putting the white wire to C, rather than NC![quoted image]
Correct - here's the official diagram
Pinball switch with diode wiring (resized).pngQuoted from SDVmnt:My bad.. Meant say. NO board works on the left side. Out of the 3 of them I have . I can get them all to register if I pass a ball over the removed sensor. But not though the playfield.
If you remove the right sensor and install it into the left position, does it detect the ball in the return lane? This will help determine whether the original left sensor or it's connector is faulty or PF is slightly thicker where the senor goes than the right side. Note that repro PFs have had these issues previously but I assume you have the original PF - right?
Quoted from SDVmnt:Entire assembly that works on the right, will not sense the ball on the left. Which is making me think the playfield is just thicker? It's definitely an original playfield.. May Would hate to try auger out that hole and go to far
Have you tried adjusting the sensitivity on the board to compensate?
Quoted from Mathazar:New personal best for me this afternoon! No I did not take the glass off! It was just one of those games where most everything went right.
- Game took 52 minutes to complete
- 3-ball setting
- All factory default settings except for kickback....set to Easy
- Picked up x5 extra balls along the way
- Had 10B after the first ball (25 minutes!) with x3 extra balls stacked up
- Completed all missions on the first ball with x2 of each element for 2B extra points
- By the end of the game, I had x5 of the first three elements and x4 of the Singing Stone
- Completed all missions x3 times collecting 2B, 3B, and 3B
- Completed Warp 9 task on the first ball
- Completed Romulan and Cardassian missions x2 each but oddly I did not trigger the Ferengi mission the whole game
- I lost count of how many Picard Maneuver callouts I got
- Battled the Borg x4 times
- Out of x8 total balls, x3 were drains within 30 seconds of launching
- Previous best was 25B but that was on a 5-ball setting
Whew! That was fun!
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Wow - impressive score. Well done!!
Quoted from mkael:Hi all,
I have an issue with my STTNG, during game, for no reason, it gives me a mutliball and also jackpots without putting a ball in "the start mission" hole. It could sent an holodeck too while the ball is on the playfield.
on power board
TP1 : 13.42v
TP2 : 5v
TP3 : 11.85v
TP6 : 105v !!!
TP7 : 21.3 v
TP8 : 16.2 v
Thanks
Have you tested all your switches in test mode? Look for multiple switch matrix activations when triggering a single switch. If you shake the machine while in test mode are there any switches being triggered?
Quoted from Watkinsd13:Thank you! So I have been looking through all the wires and havnt found anything out of the normal. Still have no way to access menu but you might be on to something. Checking the back box there are two led not doing what they are supposed to (I think). So I circled led3 is on and led 5 is off. I havnt been able to test anything with a multimeter yet because I have lost it but getting one later today. Could these narrow anything down?
[quoted image]
Are the CPU board LEDs correct? I also see you have a Judge Dredd in your collection - if it is working correctly, you'd be able to swap the power driver board to confirm whether the PDB is the issue
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:I have posted before on my "MISSING OUTER LANE ONE-WAY GATE".. And through help of several cool Pinside Pin People, determined that there are (2) pieces which comprise the part.
The A-16959 Switch Gate Assembly: which is 01-11688 mounting bracket and a 12-7118 Wireform.
Nobody has this part I have discovered. And so I took the suggestion to order something "close". Macro had something and went with that. Here is the detail. The "wire" is nearly unbendable, and any adjustments to it just breaks it. So with creative design, and put a screw into the side (and NO, I am too embarrassed to show the photo). Needless to say, it works and stops the ball. If you DON'T have the gate, the machine works, but can get confused related to the location of the ball.
Final note: With the correct part ( I had one on a STTNG machine 10 years ago), the ball slides off down into the 3 lanes. Mine isn't quite right, and the ball can sometimes get STUCK there.
SO my quest is to find the part, and as you can imagine, it's in a hard to get to location, under the Borg Ship!!!
Anyone with a thought, direction or resource would be appreciated.
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Have you posted a wanted ad in the Pinside marketplace as someone might have parted out a machine?
Quoted from Pinkitten:I need help with a new prob that I can’t figure out. I recently installed new canon lasers and they work great. But today I installed mirror blades and when I put the playfield back down and turned the game on, I had 5 switches out - the entrance switches to Alpha and Beta ramps, and the 3 neutral zone switches. I raised the playfield and noticed one alligator clip to the canon motor on the left had come off (perhaps touching something it shouldn’t). I reconnected the clip and the canon works fine, but the 5 switches do not respond in test or in play. All other lamps and switches are fine. Can anyone suggest what might be happened with these switches?
Thanks very much for your help!
In switch test mode does the slam tilt and coin door switches work, you may have knocked out a whole column on the switch matrix??
STTNG Switch Matrix (resized).JPGQuoted from Pinkitten:The coin door switches barely work, I have to push them a bunch of times to get the game to go into settings. This seems odd, shouldn’t it either work or not work at all? Something on that matrix is definitely glitchy.
What’s the fix for that, if it’s that entire matrix? It does seem to be all of that column.
Sorry I meant the coin door open/closed switch and the slam tilt switches are the same in the column - do they work? As for the diagnostic/service switches on the coin door, they don't go through the switch matrix but rather are direct switches.
Do you have a spare WPC89 CPU board you could try or swap one out from one of your other machines? Just need to swap over the game ROM to test it
Quoted from Pinkitten:The game recognizes the coin door is open, because it will allow the settings to be accessed, but the coin door buttons are barely responsive (have to push them repeatedly). But all 5 switches on that matrix are out.
I don’t have another board for that system. Looks like just 5 pins (demo man, Indy Jones, Popeye, STTNG, and JD) shared it? Assuming something happened on that matrix, would it then be a transistor or something on the board?
Looks like bobukcat has helped you out - let us know whether replacing U20 works
From the parts list the WPC89 (A-12742) CPU board is used across a much larger range of machines (not just the super pins)
1 A-12742-20001 wpc cpu assy HD
1 A-12742-20003 wpc cpu assy GI
1 A-12742-20004 wpc cpu assy PZ
1 A-12742-20006 wpc cpu assy DW
1 A-12742-20013 wpc cpu assy BR
1 A-12742-20017 wpc cpu assy TAF
1 A-12742-20018 wpc cpu assy CftBL
1 A-12742-20020 wpc cpu assy-judge dredd JD
1 A-12742-50001 wpc cpu assy BSD
1 A-12742-50002 wpc cpu pcb assy BoP
1 A-12742-50003 wpc cpu brd assy FH
1 A-12742-50004 wpc cpu assy HS2
1 A-12742-50005 wpc cpu assy FT
1 A-12742-50012 wpc cpu assy Hurricane
1 A-12742-50013 wpc cpu assy T2
1 A-12742-50017 wpc cpu assy IJ
1 A-12742-50018 wpc cpu assy WH2O
1 A-12742-50020 wpc cpu assy TZ
1 A-12742-50022 wpc cpu assy-popeye Popeye
1 A-12742-50023 wpc cpu assy-star trek STTNG
1 A-12742-50028 wpc cpu assy-demolition man DM
1 A-12742-50038 wpc cpu final assy TAFG
1 A-12742-60001 wpc cpu assy-baseball Slugfest_92
1 A-12742-60017 wpc cpu assy Hot_Shots_Basketball
1 A-12742-60020 U wpc cpu assy-pinball circus Pinball_Circus
1 A-12742-60022 wpc cpu assy TAF
Quoted from Pinkitten:What would the fix be for that? I ordered a couple switch matrix chips, so I’ll try that just in case. If I can’t diagnose it I’ll take the board to a local repair guru, he’s talented at that. He can solve it fast. Thx.
Did you do the jumper tests, as per bobukcat post https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/113#post-6272303?
Here's some more info on isolating the issue https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems - basically if the jumper test shows the switches working then the issue is in the PF wiring, if you can't trigger column 2 in the matrix with the jumpers then the issue is on the board.
Quoted from Invader:Hi all, new happy owner of a STTNG game
Machine plays very good, just one issue that is happening randomly:
When the ball needs to popup to the cannon (either left or right), nothing happens, then the game will search for the balls, activates all coils, but the ball does NOT come out to the cannon.
Eventually a new ball is launched (from shooter lane or from left upkicker).
And the game keeps looking for the 'missing' ball, then after a few rounds, everything is OK again.
Can somebody put me in the right direction where to look for the cause of this issue?
If the ball search doesn't kick the ball out, then I'd say that the VUK is not firing to kick the ball up to the cannon. Go into Solenoid Test and check that the VUK coils work. Also the optos under the PF quite often have issues (eg cold solder joints) however the ball search would typically find the missing ball if this were the issue - worthwhile going into switch test mode and verify all your switches especially in the trough, VUKs and subway all work.
Quoted from Gingerbloke:HI Guys - new and happy owner of a STTNG - its a restore job. Somebody dropped the Cabinet head onto the bottom - shattered the glass and killed the Glass guides and parts of the cabinet - all restored already.
New trough Opto boards are is ready to install rather than tackle that nightmare and the subway coil mechs are full of gunk and very sluggish.
Apart from that it is in OK shape - I want to get the electronics sorted before I attack and clean it up.
1st and basically only item of business - left cannon. It rotates so the under cabinet motor is good and it registers a ball with the Opto.
But the Lamp is dead and the Coil isn’t firing in gameplay and in test mode. Right Cannon 100%.
Is the Lamp and Coil on the same Ground cable? I assume if both are dead its a probably cable issue and not a transistor?
Yes, I swapped the bulb!
Any advice appreciated, I know the cannons are major source of issue…
Possibly the issue is the cannon wiring loom, these often break from twisting with cannon rotation - replacement wire looms are typically available
Quoted from Lostcause:Back in the club, picked it up yesterday for £500/$700!!! Missing legs and back glass/translite.
Everything else there, cab and playfield good. Few glitches but got it all running in the end, need to strip it down and fit new ramps etc
Great to play this again and some nice new mods I see.
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Great pickup - well done!! Clearly no one's going to be stealing it from your place
Quoted from Kombi:I was lucky enough to have my wife buy me my first 2 pinballs this week. Fish Tales, which i picked up yesterday, and then returned today to pick up the other - STTNG. It has Nvram installed, some LEDS and Humour Callouts. Everything works great, except the right flipper it gets hung up for a second or two at times before returning or even twitching a bit before returning to start position.
Have started reading all the posts in this thread to learn and get ideas - up to page 40/116 so far. Anyway so excited and wanted to say Hi.
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With the power off, take the glass off and manually raise the flipper bat - does it move and fall back easily, or does it get caught a bit? If the latter it is a mechanical issue and as oradke as suggested a flipper rebuilt is probably the best thing. This will address issues such as a worn coil stop, mushroomed plunger, dirty/worn coil sleeve, worn spring all of which are replaced with a flipper rebuild kit. The other possibility is an electrical issue - the flipper coil has 2 windings, the power winding is what pulls the plunger in causing the flipper bat to raise, while the second winding is the hold that keeps the flipper raised while you keep your finger on the flipper button. While the power winding would hold the bat up, it draws a lot of power and would over heat and melt the plastic components. Hence there is a leaf switch on the flipper mech itself call the End Of Stroke (EOS) switch that it used to turn off the power windings leaving the hold windings to keep the bat raised. If when playing a game the flipper bat flutters while you have the flipper button pressed then the EOS switch needs adjusting - if you buy a flipper rebuild kit it'll come with replacement EOS switches, so most likely the rebuild will address the issue you have.
As to where to buy a rebuilt kit, given you are in Brisie hit up Kurt (https://kjspinball.com/ or on facebook) as I believe he stocks them or alternatively you can gets parts from rtbb.com.au or pinballspareparts.com.au in Melb. Oh and welcome to the club
Quoted from Pin_Guy:Good Information to follow:
Great information for older machines, but a little dated for DMD era machines:
While this was true of older games, flippers of this era game have computer controlled flipper timings that de-energies high power side of the coil after the EOS closes or around 90ms...whichever occurs first; the main function of the EOS switch in these games is to re-energize the high power side of the coil if a fast moving ball strikes the bat and makes it fall to a point that the EOS re-opens.
From the STTNG manual:
[quoted image]
Yep you're right. Where I was trying to lead to was if getting a flutter due to the EOS switch re-energising the high power side of the coil, that the switch needs to be adjusted.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Anyone know where I can get a working proximity board for the lane returns? I couldn't find it when I looked last year and the aftermarket piece I got was the wrong thing. If anyone has an extra one or has successfully replaced theirs, please let me know.
Here's Tangle's website URL https://www.tanglestech.com/TPP-1023 if you want to get them direct. I've not used his STTNG board but worked with him on the MB eddy board - great bloke and his boards work well.
Quoted from koji:Anyway, had a question with regard to the extra ball in the shuttle sim. Originally, we were collecting this every game (once) on the first use of the shuttle sim... and subsequently, the same path will have 10m.
Recently however, this is now never there and only the 10m.
I read something about it perhaps not being available after it had been collected so many times.
I am wondering what criteria determines this, and if it is possible to adjust this so that it might appear once per player 100% of the time?
Thank you-
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You can set the precentage of extra balls given in the settings A2 Feature Adjustments 02. If you start consistently getting extra balls from some of the other modes in the game you'll find that the extra ball won't be available in the shuttle sim.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:So I had a chance to dig into my project game and it is going to be a much longer road to travel before it will be playable. Numerous wiring hacks to sort out. Biggest surprise was the flippers. The upper right flipper is dead and noticed someone had removed the fliptronics II boards and replaced them with standard leaf contacts like my old Bkackout. I’ll have to reterminate the wires there but now I need to track down a pair of those fliptronics boards for the flipper buttons along with all the hardware that goes with them. The flipper board is still in the head and not sure yet if that was bypassed soon.
Seems to have been a common thing back in the day for ops to use flipper leaf switches as replacements for flipper opto boards. The leaf switches will still use the fliptronics board in the backbox to activate the flipper coils. To swap the leaf switches out, you'll need the flipper opto boards plus the flipper actuators (that the flipper button presses to open or block the opto signal) and possibly the IDC connectors (unless they have been left in the cabinet) to connect the flipper wires to the header on the new flipper opto boards.
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:QUESTION:
Has anyone heard any follow-up on Soren's progress updating the STTNG Firmware Code? Planetary Pinball will distribute the revision, when available.
Thoughts?
[quoted image]
Soren has an agreement with PPS to produce updated B/W code and so far has released CFTBL 5.0, Junk Yard 2.0, Radical 3.0, and Red & Ted's Road Show 7.0. While there has been plenty of suggestions on his thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades) as to the games that need updates, Soren has not stated what games he is now working on or even which games he plans to update.
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:QUESTION:
Has anyone replaced their WPC Pinball Backglass with an HD Monitor? I want to keep the Color DMD laptop / speaker configuration currently in the machine. Interested in the model/brand/size screen you went with. Also the specific details related to mounting.
Thought this would be an extremely cool mod, allowing for animated graphics / video instead of the traditional plastic.
Thoughts?
Suggestions?
Ideas?
thanks in advance for your kind advice and help.
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Have you looked at what the guys' use that build DIY virtual pins? They reuse a pinball cabinet and have a monitor to display the BG/translite of the game being played, so they'd know what monitors fit and how best to install them. I know Aussie Arcade have a virtual pinball sub-section in the pinball forum https://www.aussiearcade.com/forum/pinball
Quoted from Trindawg:Oh Man! Thank you for this ! I was going crazy trying to find it!
If you are struggling to find a replacement part you can use https://www.pinballsearch.com which will specific search all major pinball suppliers around the world of the part number or description you are wanting. For example https://www.pinballsearch.com/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=03-8318-18
Quoted from Trindawg:So I’m trying to find out how many Star posts are on my game, and I referenced the manual , but it doesn’t say how many posts there are. It just lists it. Unless the “#8” is the quantity ? Anyone ?
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You can use https://www.moll.no/pinball/parts/ to look up how many are used in a machine - it leverages the IPDB Parts List for the machines
STTNG Part Lookup (resized).JPGQuoted from Gingerbloke:Hey guys - do any of you gurus have some detailed photos of the single drop target at the back? Specifically the small coil that is attached?
In my machine it looks like the part that gets attracted to the Coil iss too far away so somebody made it stay closer by just putting a long screw into the playfield that kept is close to the coil - I guess I need to adjust/bend it back - so any images of it fully built - away from the playfield would be perfect[quoted image]
The Frame & Eyelet bracket (A-14913) on your assembly is broken which is quite common. The red arrow shows the bit that gets bent down to hold the actuator plate in place - here's the replacement http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPS-A-14913
Looks like the plunger plate (01-10380) in your mech is broken. It's the blue arrow - http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPS-01-10380
The screw (green arrow) that holds the small coil in place is loose on your assembly and needs to be tightened up.
If you wanted to replace the rusty springs they are 10-433 (is the long one on the drop target) and 10-363 (is the small spring on the knock down assembly)
Drop target assembly (resized).jpgQuoted from Trindawg:Anyone know where I can purchase this assembly? Mine came loose from the bracket. Marco doesn’t have them in stock
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Doesn't look like anyone stock this particular part. You could fix it be removing the 2 rivets holding the switch stack to the bracket and then bolt them together.
Alternatively Action Pinball lists http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=SW-1A-114-120-BKT as a replacement. Also Pinball Life have similar to this that could work https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-set-of-slingshot-switches-with-brackets.html
Quoted from koji:Exactly. Also of note is that STTNG is quite a higher production run AFAIK of those other remake titles. Can only imagine the valuation and demand for TNG is it had a run of 50% of what it did.
Yep there were more STTNG machines made than all of AFM, MM & MB put together
Star Trek: The Next Generation (Nov 1993) 11,728 produced
Attack from Mars (Dec 1995) 3,450 produced
Medieval Madness (Jun 1997) 4,016 produced
Monster Bash (Jul 1998) 3,361 produced
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Is it possible to purchase the original Williams boards?
Yes - from time to time you'll see someone selling off NOS spare boards but they are usually quite expensive (as you'd expect). Also you'll find used boards from parted out machines on eBay, of course most will need to be tested & repaired. You can buy the original PCBs and build the board yourself if you are so inclined or there are people that build & sell them - just depends what you're after and prepared to pay for
Quoted from Trindawg:I guess not. I’ve asked for some advice and help on multiple occasions and I get no responses. Did I do something wrong ?
Not at all - I (and I'm guessing others??) haven't shopped out a STTNG, so can't offer advice on those specific questions you've ask. But we chime in when we see a question that we can answer
Quoted from Trindawg:One of my items I ordered was socket extensions for a cordless drill. Junk. The sockets aren’t deep enough for say, nuts that have the screw sticking out some under a playfield. They work ok with hex head screws , just not nuts.
Yes that is quite common, even with the manual hex drivers as well - need to look for deep socket versions
Quoted from Pinkitten:Thanks! All 5 are switches. It’s the 3 neutral zone targets and the entry gate switches for the Alpha and Beta ramps. I did a visual check and made sure all the wires are soldered on each of the 5 solidly. Could still be a cold solder, but they appear fine. I didn’t think about a diode, certainly could be. The other symptom I’m having is rebooting during play. I just checked all the fuses again and they seem fine. I’m gonna bring the game down to my super-tech and let him fix it for good. It’s beyond my skills. He’s got tools to diagnose these things better and replace diodes and bridge rectifiers, etc. Thanks very much for your help! I bet it’s something like a diode.
Do the other switches in the same column work - slam tilt and coin door closed?
Have you checked connectivity of the wiring with a DMM?
STTNG Switch Matrix (resized).JPGQuoted from Pinkitten:Yep, coin door closed works. Just the 5 switches. It’s weird because the coin door buttons for the settings also stopped working, so I tried simply replacing the door. That solved everything for a few days, all control buttons worked and even the 5 switches came back. But now the switches are back out, but the coin door buttons work. I can go into test mode and all switches work except those 5.
The Slam Tilt and Coin Door Closed switches (that are on the same switch matrix column as those 5 PF switches) go via the coin door interface board, so there is an association but if the issue is there I'm unsure how/why it leaves those 2 switches working but knocks out the 5 PF switches. I'd be interested in hearing what your techs find is causing the issue
Quoted from DumbAss:Bear in mind that there are two switch column headers on the CPU board. They are J206 and J207. The header at J212 is for the cabinet and also has connections for switch column 1 and 2. There are two separate column 2 wires that leave the CPU board. One at J206 or J207 that goes to the playfield and the other at J212 that goes to the coin door interface in the cabinet. This is why the cabinet switches work but the playfield ones do not. It indicates that there's probably nothing wrong on the CPU board and the problem is in the playfield. Of course ... not having done any further investigation and only with briefly reading the information provided this may not be a correct assessment.
Yes although he mentioned that the PF switches worked for a while when he connected a new coin door (which would have been plugged into the coin door interface). So coincidental or somehow related??
Quoted from Pin_Guy:Clock time, gets a bad rep because it seems to be off by days or months at a time, but if you actually looks at the time its always correct ... odd right ASIC keeps solid time but not the dates.
Any idea why that is? Is the date calculated from the time offset to a given date (similar to Unix/Linux systems) and there is a bug in the software??
Quoted from Trindawg:Is there a guide anywhere for rebuilding flippers? That’s next on my to-do for my machine. Flippers need work badly.
https://homepinballrepair.com/pinball-flipper-rebuilding-how-to-fix-and-replace/#rebuilding covers various vendors and ages including WPC. And while Vid's Guide is more on Sys11 flippers it still has some good info and is worth a read https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers
Quoted from monkfe:question on the ball launch...when ball lock is picked upon opening play, the rear drop target drop and the ball is "locked" the next ball is launched and the drop target is then up and the ball is supposed to kick back and feed the upper right flipper for a shot to the borg ship correct?...mine just seems to drop into the lane guides...I'm guessing I need to ajust the circular ball guide that feeds ball, but wanted to make sure this is the correct way its supposed to work...
As far as I'm aware your game is working as expected. The STTNG rules http://pinball.org/rules/startrekthenextgeneration.html states "When the target is up (most of the time) the ball will bounce around and go into a bonus multiplier lane to the bumpers" and this is how mine and others I've played work. Sometimes rather than going through the rollover lanes, the ball can bounce back off the top of a lane guide and into lock (as the drop target was knocked down from the launch) - this is also mentioned in the rules guide "Shoot the right orbit... This locks the ball if it's lit, lights the lock if it isn't (and sometimes locks it anyway; the ball bounces off the target blocking the lock, off the top of one of the lanes, and back up into the lock), and feeds the ball into the lanes and bumpers". So I don't think it's supposed to rebound back around the orbit to the upper flipper.
Quoted from Gingerbloke:Hi Guys - SO I am nearing the end of the refurb….
I had a cannon issue that i think is resolved - well it is working right now - some intermittent connection issue…. When I have a day to look I will investigate (I already replaced the entire cannon cable)
BUT, whenever I play a game, it resets?
I tried a few times - I could get it to reset when I get to shoot a cannon and then the next time i press the right flipper - game resets. Power down and reboot.
Any steer from you guys? Could this just be the 5v circuit? I had hoped that was going to be OK because i swapped to LED’s but i guess that is the AC circuit…
Any advice appreciated.
Take a read of https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets - this will help steer you in the right direction to solving the problem
Quoted from Axl:last year (!) my son was playing my game and shouted from the basement that it was on fire.
Found out the hard way that the tieback mod was not done.
I have tried to fix the old board, no go. I have bought a new board and coil. I have done the tieback mod with the tieback going to J08 as suggested
at pinwiki.
I have checked all my fuses, all good. still, all the diverter coils are dead.
I bet this has come up like 100 times, but I am stumped. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.
Check that your coils are ok
- Verify the resistance of your coils against their specs https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html
- Make sure the plungers can move freely in the coils
Check that you have voltage at the coils
Quoted from Pinkitten:Hiya all. So my quest to solve the 5 switches out on my STTNG continues…(all 5 switches are on the same switch matrix, the 3 neutral zone switches and the ramp entry switches for Alpha and Beta). So I dropped a new backup power driver board into my game to see if that was the trouble, same thing - game works fine except those 5 switches. Hoping that narrows it down for you smart/tech guys. Is it one of the 5 switches that’s bad? Anything else to check? Thanks!
Those 5 switches connect to the MPU via J207-2, check the connector and wire connectivity from the J207-2 to the first switch
Quoted from Pinkitten:I misspoke. I replaced the MPU. The board on the left with the batteries on it. That one is fine, both are working the same. So the issue isn’t the MPU. If not the board, what would be affecting those 5 switches?
Thanks. Sorry for the confusion.
Have you checked the connector pin J207-2 and tested the wire connectivity from J207-2 to the daisy chain of 5 switches?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/130#post-6442831
Quoted from radium:I’d reflow solder on those headers and re-pin the connectors.
I think J120 and J121 are interchangeable, but let someone confirm first. You can plug backbox to the other header and see if any change.
Did you check power saver in adjustments? I think that effects when the game is idle only though?
Yes J120 and J121 are interchangeable as the header pins are linked on the PCB.
Quoted from Pinkitten:Yep, I agree. I had this issue on my TZ last year. I’m concerned that if I spend $40-50 for a daughter board as temp fix to prevent 5v from dropping, it will just come back or persist. Might as well fix the power board the right way now.
The reset board is a great temporary fix but it doesn't address the underlying issue. Best to diagnose where the issue is before sending the board off for repair, as it may not necessarily be the PDB.
Quoted from Redwizard000:Hi guys, I am having an odd issue with my left cannon. On startup it does it's thing where it rotates out and back and it fires the plunger. But then the plunger doesn't retract back in to the cannon and the cannon can't find the "home" position.
If I go into the left cannon test, and manually run the motor back and forth it finds its home and mark no issue. But then when it leaves test mode and resets again it does the same thing.
The shooter plunger seems like it is getting stuck. If I tap the plunger with my finger it will snap back in and then I run my finger past the opto sensor in the cannon it will reset and go back to home.
Then the game will play fine until the next time it is power cycled and then it usually (not always) will do it again.
It also seems like the resting position of the left and right cannon plungers are different. The one on the left goes all the way back into the housing, the one on the right sticks out just a little bit.
Is it a problem with the coil? Is something just getting stuck? I don't think it's a switch problem. I think the problem is that the plunger is getting stuck out and that is upsetting the ball load opto and for some reason the game is reporting that as a missed home switch. There is definitely nothing wrong with the home or mark switches.
Any tips? Thanks.
The cannon plunger sticking is a common issue and is most likely due to the plunger becoming magnetised.
Possible options:
- try demagnetising it (if you have a wand) or hit it several times with a hammer (I've not tried this but have read that it works)
- replace the plunger
- mappy24 added a 1mm foam spacer to prevent the plunger from fully plunging so it can't stick to the metal plate
Quoted from djsoup:I just started getting an issue where the game wont start (pressing the start button). Upon further investigation (edge switch test) it looks as though the whole column on the matrix is is out. I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to read this, but does it mean something is up with the green-brown wire? I didn't see any metal touching under the pf and I reseated all the connections. I did notice in the back box that a couple of the connectors were plugged into different sockets but looking through the thread I see that these connections are interchangeable. Hopefully its not too difficult to narrow down and fix. Appreciate any info if anyone else has run into an issue like this. Thanks!
[quoted image]
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems describes how to test if your MPU board is functioning correctly - this will highlight whether the issue is on the board or on the PF (connector, wire loom, switch or diode)
Quoted from danczaz:Are there special mirror blades for this pin since it’s a widebody? Who is best source for mirror blades.
What about that backboard decal?
Anyone sell just the backbox side decals only? See with ministry of pinball but that’s an oversea shipment.
Zitt’s pop caps… if I go purple what color pop bodies and skirts are people using?
Thanks
Dan
The B/W Superpins (aka widebody) use the standard B/W mirror blades, as the PF length is the same
Quoted from mappy24:The only other problem I'm having at the moment is with the popper that feeds the left cannon, occasionally the ball will fail to make it out and fall back down again causing the machine to search endlessly. I think I'm correct in saying that coils generally don't go bad so I'm considering replacing the sleeve, spring, plunger again, unless there's anything else I can do? I can't see how optos would come into this one, unless there's an opto to detect a ball in the plunger and it's not being detected?[quoted image][quoted image]
Raise the PF (after removing the balls) and manually check how smoothly the VUK plunger moves and also if either the coil bracket screws or the screws holding the mech to the PF have come loose. I'd look at replacing the VUK's sleeve, and clean the plunger - also inspect the plunger and mech for damage or wear while you have it apart. The sleeve can collect grim, which roughens the sleeve surface and causes additional friction on the plunger - often replacing this is all that is needed
Quoted from marioparty34:Hi!
Just picked up a STTNG. Can someone pls send me a pic of their upper right flipper?
I cannot hit the delta quadrant ramp for the life of me. I wait until the very last moment to flip and it only goes to the 'advance in rank' hole.
I may need to make an adjustment or perhaps just play better.
Thanks!
I have found some machines harder to make the ramp than others. Have you checked that it's the correct coil? Also check the plunger, sleeve and coil stop for damage/wear - might be worth doing a flipper rebuild.
In regards to the alignment, the back of mine is slightly off the ball guide such that the flipper tip sits marginally out into the orbit lane - in the pic I've put a straight edge from the orbit ball guide to give you an idea of the angle. To be honest this was the way mine was setup when I bought it and I've not needed to change it (that said mine isn't the easiest of shots but is doable)
STTNG upper flipper (resized).jpgQuoted from Nacman:Hi all,
I am chasing a weird problem with the lock popup/drop down. In order to troubleshoot it I need to understand when the post should be raised, what causes it to raise for a playfield perspective and what makes it drop.
I am not asking about the electrical mechanical aspect but the logic.
For instants on the first ball of a new game I have observed the lock bar down if I fire the ball in warp four mode as it’s being fired the drop-down target pops up blocking access to dropping down into the subway.
1) Is that correct logic?
When the ball hits that raised target it bounces back toward the three lanes.
2)Does the drop target drop because the ball impacts it?
3)If it does drop does the machine pop it back up or does it leave it down?
The reason I’m asking for the logic is I am getting times when it’s down, making a chattering or light grinding sound trying to pop up. Sometimes it does pop up and sometimes it doesn’t but I can’t find anything binding the solenoid underneath. I’m going to attempt to make a video of it while I play a game.
At 43 seconds in the video it chatters and partially moves up 3 times in rapid succession. Is this normal? It happens prior to :43 secs but chatters only 1 time in the two occurances prior. Help if you have any input or ideas.
The game can raise and lower the drop target itself depending upon the gameplay; and a hit from the ball will knock the gate down (if it is in the up position). So if when launching the ball you choose "Warp Factor" the game will raise the target (if not already raised) whereas all other options it'll drop the target (if not already down) such that the launched ball will go into the top subway hole.
So in answer to you questions when choosing "Warp Factor"
1. Correct - it'll raise the drop target on launching the ball
2. Correct - if the launched ball hits the raised drop target it will go down
3. In this case the game will leave the drop target down - on some machines the ball can bounce off the top of the rollover lanes and back into lock however the intention is that the ball will fall into the pops.
The drop target switch and actuator arm can cause issues requiring it to be adjusted, but I've not heard a noise like that previously - can you recreate the issue/noise in solenoid test mode?
Edit: Fixed the typo it should have said I've "not" heard a noised like that previously 
Quoted from jazc4:I'm trying to finish up a restore and the cannons are holding me up. The game says both launchers can not find home. I've tried all I know but no go. They won't budge. I put external voltage to the motors and they work. All of the backbox boards are verified good. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Are you saying the cannons don't move? Or do the cannons swing out and back but the "home" switch is not being triggered?
Quoted from jazc4:They won't move. Even using test mode. They will fire the launcher in test mode but won't move. I removed the motors and tested them with a 12v power supply and they work. It's like the game won't give them the voltage to move. Being novice at the electronic part, I went through the schematics and such with no luck. I also tested the home and mark switches and they are registering.
Firstly check that you have 12v being supplied to the motor EMI boards - you could have a bad connection on J118
Alternatively do you have mods on your machine that are tapped into the 12v power? If so try disconnecting those and seeing if the problem persists
STTNG Motor Connection (resized).JPGQuoted from PinHigh1:Where did you buy these looms? Is there somewhere in the US to get them? Thanks!
Marco has them but they're pretty expensive https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/H-17067
Might be cheaper to buy them from OS https://www.pinballshop.nl/parts-by-game/star-trek-the-next-generation/star-trek-the-next-generation-williams-sttng-cannon-cable/?sl=en
Quoted from mtadams29:The coin door is closed and that switch is working. All of the switches are working, but none of the actual poppers are firing. So, no slings, no pops.
I recall you said the flippers weren't working either, so check Fuse 112 - you need to remove the fuse to verify, otherwise you can get a false reading. Also with the coin door closed check the voltage at TP6 on the Power Driver Board - it should be 50-70V DC, what voltage do you have? This voltage is used for all solenoids excluding the flippers. Let us know what you find
Quoted from mtadams29:I have a very old, hand-me-down meter. So setting it on 200 in the DCV section the test points give me the following readings: TP1 - 16.3 (labeled 12VP)
TP2 - 5.1 (5V), TP6 - 88 (50V), TP3 - 12.1 (12VD), TP8 - 20.9 (18V), TP7 - 26.1 (20V), TP4 - 0.4 (not labeled). Some seem fine, 6 seems VERY high, and the others just a little high.
Thoughts?
TP2 (5V) and TP3 (12V) are regulated voltage hence why they are pretty well right on the money. The TP1 (12V), TP6 (50V), TP7 (20V) and TP8 (18V) are unregulated hence it's what is coming from the main transformer (although converted from AC to DC via bridge rectifiers). What country are you in and what is your country voltage (eg 110V or 230V etc)? And can you take a pic of the 9 pin connector from the transformer showing the jumpers - just need to ensure the jumpers (which set the input voltage) align to your country voltage
Quoted from mtadams29:I am in the United States and my country voltage is 120V. Attached are the 2 9pin connectors coming off the transformer, I wasn't sure which one you meant.
At this point I am not having any luck with most of the solenoids. Everything except the cannon motors is basically non-functioning. No plunger, no diverters, etc.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Looks like DumbAss and
MrMikeman have sorted your power - the first page of the WPC schematics manual has the various voltage configurations. Here's the 100V (which we believe is how your machine is configured) and the 120V which is how it should be configured - see the red circled areas. Your need a pin extraction tool to pop the pin out in order to relocate to the pin.
In regards to the solenoids, so you've replaced fuse 112 and now have working flippers and voltage at TP6 - right? So the next step is to check Fuses 103, 104 and 105 which the solenoids (excluding the flippers) connect off. I see in an earlier post that you had the J204 ribbon cable (which connects the 8 drive board) installed around the wrong way - I suspect that it may have locked on one or more coils and hence blew the fuses.
Quoted from mtadams29:Sounds very possible. F105 keeps blowing, maybe because of the power issue? The crazy thing is this machine worked before the CPU board was replaced. then everything went to hell.
Disconnect all the connectors on the 8 driver board, replace F105 and power it on - see if the fuse blows? I suspect that the ribbon cable being installed the wrong way around has fried some transistors on the board and their coils. If the fuse doesn't blow, then you know the issue is associated with the 8 driver board. Check each of the coils it drives (ensure the plunger moves freely and no sign of being burnt/melted), also check the resistance of each of the coils and confirm they match the specs https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html. You'll also need to remove the 8 driver board and check the transistors with your DMM https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Coil_Locks_On
Quoted from mtadams29:Disconnected everything on the 8 driver board and replaced f105, powered it on and the fuse blew right away. Inspection of the coils appears fine visually, everything moves freely.
No issues on the 8-driver board either. It's also brand new, Rottendog replacement.
The power issue will have to be addressed when I can get my hands on a pin extractor. Ordering one from Marcos tonight.
Yep this makes sense F103 is the fuse associated with the coils on the 8 driver board (not F105 - sorry). F105 is associated with the below coils - check each of these coils ensuring that their connectors aren't shorted (touching any metals components), also check the plunger moves freely and look for signs of burning/melting. If you find a damaged coil, you'll need to check the associated transistors on the Power Driver board - is this an original B/W WPC board or an aftermarket board (eg Rottendog)?
STTNG F105 Coils (resized).JPGQuoted from mtadams29:Checked and double-checked, no damage to any of the coils. Everything moves freely, though the diverter assembly is "tight". I'm not sure if this is supposed to be this way or not, but it appears to be coming from the part the turns the actual diverter, not the coil.
This is an aftermarket rottendog board as well. I have also installed the Pin-Tek CPU board, New Fliptech board, Pinsound sound board, Pinsound DMDLux board, and ColorDMD.
You only need to focus on the 8 coils listed in the above post, as these are the ones connected to F105. With your machine off, do a continuity test with your DMM between one of these 8 coils to ground - put one test probe on one of the coil lugs and other probe on the earth braid in the cabinet. None of the coils should be grounded, so if you find that it is grounded then disconnect J107 and J130 and re-test that coil to see if the grounding remains (in which case the short is in the wiring or on the PF) or if the previous short is no longer present (in which case the short is on the Power Driver board). Let us know what you find
Quoted from mtadams29:I have checked every coil listed with my meter and I can detect no short in any of them.
Well if there's no short in the PF, then you've got a shorted (failed) transistor on your Power Driver board ... but I've no experience or knowledge on a Rottendog board so can't offer any advice regarding testing the transistors associated with those coils (not sure whether they work in the same way as an original WPC board and use the same types of transistors)
Quoted from mtadams29:I have checked every coil listed with my meter and I can detect no short in any of them.
In thinking about it further, verify that J107-3 has the Violet-Yellow connected to it. Then disconnect J130 and power the game on - if F105 doesn't blow this confirms that there is no short in the PF and the issue is one of the transistors on the Rottendog board
Quoted from Thehipster:Is the transmitting led not red? Like I say I am a total novice when it comes to optos. I just thought it was an indicator of it receiving power.
As horseflesh has indicated they are infrared - so they are not visible to the naked eye however if you have a camera that doesn't have IR filtering (typically the facetime camera on your phone but not the main phone camera as it will have IR filtering) you can use that to confirm if the opto emitter is working.
Quoted from Thehipster:I have no power to the opto switches. I am basing this on a you-tube repair video
www.bing.com/videos/search?q=switch+circuit+problem+star+trek+tng+pinball&docid=608016826398829576&mid=94D2B0343B7B4170356394D2B0343B7B41703563&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
where there is an led lit before the guy checks the infra reds with his phone. Just have to check the connector on the power supply for voltage.
Any suggestions at this stage would be gladly received, especially about the power to the opto switches.
12V power for you opto boards comes from J118-2. Section 3 of the STTNG manual shows the connections of the various boards - below shows the power for the trough board (that was being discussed in the Youtube video you referenced) and also the 16 opto board (which is the opto board for the PF opto switches).
STTNG Trough LED board (resized).JPG
STTNG Opto board (resized).JPG
Quoted from Thehipster:So here we go. I am embarrassed to admit this but if it helps someone in the future it will be worth it.
I went to check the voltage for the optos at your suggestion at J118. I pulled back the wire harness that was obscuring it to find that the connector had been pulled off the board along with the other two.
Switched on and everything worked as it should.
The cable loom is pulling it down and bending the wires so I am going to have to secure it somehow.
After a couple of games the pin could not locate balls and I discovered that J118 connector was slack and being pulled down by the weight of the cable loom. I reseated it but the trough was sending out two balls at a time during gameplay so I may have to check the opto IRs.
I will keep you posted as I have some free time tomorrow night UK time.
Glad to hear you've got it sorted - we're all here to learn and help each other
Quoted from tonyf1965:I had my power board out. I did not do a good of labeling the wires. Can someone please let me know where this connector goes? The connector with 2 black wires.
[quoted image]
Connects to J103 (top right hand side of the power board) - the black wires connect to the pins on the top
Quoted from Thehipster:I know that these question may have been answered several times on this forum but could someone give me an idea what might cause the two following things please.
1. When firing the right cannon launcher I have to press the trigger three or four times to release the ball.. Left launcher no problem.
2. in 'Borg' mode multi ball a ball goes missing and is stuck somewhere in the under-playfield tunnels. Do I just need to clean the coils in the divertor system or is it something else?
Thanks in advance.
1. As Zitt posted, possibly an issue with the right cannon wiring loom.
2. There are multiple optos at the VUKs where the diverters in the subway direct the balls to. I'd first check in switch test mode that all the optos are all working
Quoted from Thehipster:What does this tell you? Are all optos supposed to be open or closed in test?
[quoted image][quoted image]
When the opto receiver can detect the IR beam from the opto emitter, the switch is closed. For example in the image Switch 38 (left cannon) is closed, meaning that there is no ball in the cannon as the beam is being detected; however switch 36 (the VUK to the left canon) is open meaning that a ball is there as it is blocking the beam from being detected.
So the image shows me that you have 2 balls in the trough (sw 65 & 66) and 4 under the PF (sw 36, 37, 41 & 35). Typically the game will stage 3 balls under the PF, so normally I wouldn't expect sw 35 to be open (ie have a ball there) - I'm assuming you weren't in the middle of a game when you took this image. To confirm I'd remove all balls and get the game to reload them, then check what the switch matrix looks like
Quoted from mtadams29:Got to this as well. Repinned as suggested and testing the 50V TP now reads 74V instead of 84. I believe I read somewhere that this is OK as it's the high-end of the range. Is that correct? Should I be looking at something else too?
Yep looks much better- how about the other TP's?
Previously you had: TP1 - 16.3 (12V), TP2 - 5.1 (5V Reg), TP3 - 12.1 (12V Reg), TP6 - 88 (50V), TP7 - 26.1 (20V) and TP8 - 20.9 (18V)
Quoted from mtadams29:Was finally able to get back to this. I disconnected J130 and powered on the game, F105 did NOT blow. So, down to the board being the culprit. I have my old board still, but it has visible scorch marks so i'm not sure I trust it. It's the main reason I just bought a new one! Any thoughts on where/how I should start with troubleshooting transistors?
Also, speaking of old boards, I have all of my older boards, some probably need some work and that is not something I feel capable of doing. If anyone wants some older boards to rebuild, let me know. I'm not looking to get rich, so, whatever they're worth to you.
The Solenoid Table in the manual shows the main drive transistor for the solenoids connected via J130 - this is for the original WPC board but possibly the Rottendog board uses a similar naming. But the easiest way of getting the full chain of transistors associated with each of the J130 solenoids is to go into Solenoid test mode, and find the solenoid you are interested in, then press the Start Button which will display details of the particular coil - use the "+" to scroll thru the details to the last page where it'll show the 3 transistors that drive the solenoid. The original board used TIP-102 and TIP-36c transistors and the Pinwiki page shows how to test them https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Coil_Locks_On but again it depends what type of transistors the Rottendog board uses as to how to test them. Alternatively you could simply send you board to a repairer to find the fault and fix it.
STTNG Drive Transistors (resized).pngQuoted from mtadams29:Knowing that having J130 connected causes F105 to blow, should I run the Solenoid test with J130 connected or not? Seems like it should be to make sure everything is trying to route as designed, but I want to make sure before I waste another fuse.
No, as simply powering the machine on with J130 connected will blow the fuse. The point of going into solenoid test mode (with J130 disconnected) was simply an easy way to find out which transistors are associated with a coil - the other way is to look at the power board schematics.
To narrow down which of J130 transistors is causing the issue, as Zee has indicated you can use you DMM in resistance/Ohm mode between the ground braid and each of the J130 pins - the shorted pin will have little to no resistance. From knowing the pin with the issue, you can determine the specific transistors by either using the schematics, or get the affected coil from the below image and then use the solenoid test mode (go to the specific coil, press the start button and then the "+" button to scroll through to the Drive transistors). One of more of these will be blown
STTNG F105 Coils (resized).JPGQuoted from MrMikeman:Keep in mind there are 2 switches on the canon position (underside of the pf). One is the home position (to load the ball in the canon). The other switch is the point at which the canon CAN fire safely. This is to avoid having the canon firing back into the VUK or at a place that could break things. If this switch is misaligned or sticky or intermittent, it would cause the issue you are mentioning. If the game thinks the canon isn't clear of the VUK then it will NOT fire.
The problem isn't necessarily the loom. The loom only affects the canon light (insert), the coil firing, and the opto to detect the ball in the canon. Go into the launcher test and check out the switches.
Actually this is what I thought as well, however when I tested my machine it can fire the ball once the cannon is not at home (ie the home switch opens) even though the "At Mark" switch isn't yet open. In the right launcher test, I noticed that the "At Mark" switch opens slightly after the cannon has swung past the Alpha ramp, which I thought was odd given in a game I can make the Alpha ramp when launching a probe ... in further testing it seems that STTNG uses the At Mark switch as to when to release the ball if the trigger hasn't been pulled, but it is not used as to when the cannon can safely fire
Quoted from horseflesh:I would recommend not buying anything for that unless the machine misbehaves. When it does, you can learn to diagnose it and then purchase exactly the right parts to fix it.
One thing you SHOULD do ASAP though is make sure the batteries are moved to a remote mount!
Enjoy the game, it is one of the best... especially if you are a fan of the show!
Gambit_DTM - just to elaborate on horseflesh post
The CPU board (lower left in the head box) has 3 x AA batteries, which were directly on the PCB. You may find the batteries have moved off the PCB to a remote mount (as horseflesh recommended), or alternatively the batteries could have been replaced with a coin style battery or even removed altogether by using a NVRAM (non-volatile memory). If any of these modifications have been done then you don't need to anything other than replace the batteries, however if the batteries are still located on the PCB then you should be replacing them asap (I would recommend using lithium batteries which are not prone to leaking like the alkaline ones), you can then remotely mount them at a later date.
Note if you replace the batteries while the machine is turned on, then you won't lose your settings. If however the 3 x AA , the the first thing to
Quoted from mtadams29:Contacted Rottendog about this issue as this started when the board was installed. Turn the game on, F105 blows, finally and after much looking traced it back to Pin 7 on the J130 connector. When I asked them about it they said in no uncertain terms that it was absolutely, unequivocally, impossible for it to be the board and that it MUST be the plunger coil that is the issue. That I should verify by cutting the coil wire to ensure the fuse doesn't blow, then replace the coil once this test had proven the coil was the problem. I then explained that I had tested the resistance at the pin on the board and it was very low, to which they replied with the correct size transistor to buy to replace Q68 on their board. It would be funny if it weren't so annoying!
What type of transistor is Q68 on the Rottendog board?
Quoted from Thehipster:New problem. The ball won't empty from under the playfield and the tests show under divertors are non responsive. Is this just a switch problem?
Was the coin door open when you were trying to empty the balls or test the diverter solenoids? Note that with the coin door open the 50V power that is used for all solenoids is disabled.
Quoted from Thehipster:Okay so I changed the arm on the switch and re-soldered the wires, checked the diode and did a cannon test.
Test says that the switch opens just as it leaves the docking area and then stays open out and then back in and changes to closed just as it gets to the docking area. I am assuming that it is registering as correct in the test sequence.
In gameplay the cannon will not fire until three or four pulls of the trigger. Does this indicate the whole switch is the problem?
Also could anyone, when they get a chance, post a picture of the orientation of the right launcher micro switch.
Thanks.
I don't believe the "At Mark" switch is your issue, as based on my testing it is not used to enable the canon to be fired.
When you caught the wire looms raising/lowering the PF, was J130 pins bent or damaged? I wonder whether you have a bad connection or cold solder joint (cracking) on pin J130-2 which is the driver connection for the right cannon. If you go into solenoid test for the right cannon does it fire consistently (the same as the left cannon) when on repeat?
Quoted from Thehipster:Door was closed. It cleared one ball from the trough then nothing.
Go into switch test mode and look at which switches in the subway and trough are open (ie a ball is there). Then go into solenoid test and fire the coils where the balls are to eject them.
Quoted from Thehipster:Test report says missing ball. Can a ball get stuck under the playfield?
A ball can get stuck in a subway, although typically it is due to a faulty coil or diverter. I'd suggest removing as many balls as possible (either manually or as above) and if the missing ball hasn't been located, then slowly raise the PF - note that a stuck ball can become unlodged and potentially break plastics or subways. Once you've found the missing ball and all the balls are out of the machine, I'd suggest verifying all your coils are working correctly and then test all your switches (particularly the opto).
Also it sounds like you have multiple issues (eg cannon not firing), so trying to troubleshoot them concurrently can mislead you ... I'd suggest going back to basics and working through resolving the basic issues before moving on to the more complex ones. For example don't worry about troubleshooting the right cannon issue, while you have missing ball errors - once you get those resolved and have an operational game, then if the cannon still has the problem you can troubleshoot it.
Quoted from MrMikeman:179m if you do LLRRLLRLLL
What version of the code are you on? As this is how I transverse through the tunnels and I only get 159M and an artifact (or 149M, an EB and an artifact) - and it also matches what is stated in the rules http://pinball.org/rules/startrekthenextgeneration.html
Also note that there are multiple paths where you can score the maximum points
Quoted from kool1:Newer owner of a STTNG so bare with me - have a smaller issue that just started the last week or so..
Some target lights are not coming on when they used to. The 2 that happen regularly now are :
1. During a battle simulation when the left gun is loads (after you fire the right one) there is no target light. Seems OK with the right gun. All the lights are functioning.
2. During Asteroid Threat the center "start mission" light doesn't come on for the initial shot, again that light works for everything else, used to light every time
Anyone ever experience this? Your comments or ideas are appreciated, game works fine otherwise.
I saw a couple of other people mention these exact issues before but I could never find an answer.
The insert that should light up when the left cannon is loaded in Battle Simulation is the centre scoop insignia, which is also the same insert that should light at the start of the Asteroid mode (just to clarify this is not the start mission insert).
Quoted from kool1:This isn't that- lights work perfectly at other times. It's specifically in those 2 modes at those times.
In Asteroid mode, after you shoot the center scoop to lock in the asteroid value (or it times out) does the centre scoop insignia then light as one of the targets to collect?
Quoted from mtadams29:Thanks! It was a huge help, the one in the current board is definitely bad. Will try and replace it soon. Wish me luck!
One thing I'm not sure about is whether you can test the 13n10l while it is on the board - ChrisHibler (or anyone else) are you able to confirm?
Edit: mtadams29 did you test any of the other FETs on the Rottendog board - if they showed up as good using the test method and only the suspect FET tested bad, then this would imply that you are able to test a FET on the board
Just as a reference this is the Chris's FET test we are referring to
Quoted from smalltownguy2:My target has been all the way down for many months, because I wasn't aware that the switch actuator arm was broken. Each and every time the launcher sent the ball it's been headed right for the subway entrance. Not knowing how the regular operation worked, I was alerted when the "check switch" error came up on game start-up. That's what led me to lift the playfield for the first time since getting the game (yeah, I know)
Bonus: I found the manual envelope, complete with schematics, so that's nice.
I'm thinking this is the switch I need, from Marco. They also sell one with a longer arm too though. Anyone near their machine that could tell me how long the arm *should* be? This one is 1.25 inches, they also have one that is 2.25"
[quoted image]
The manual (pg 2-27) shows the switch that is required - Part # 5647-12693-31 this has a 1.9" flat actuator
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5647-12693-31
https://www.pinballlife.com/sub-microswitch-with-19-straight-flat-actuator.html
Quoted from smalltownguy2:My concern is what happens when the drop target is down on launch, i.e. during the "launch a probe" mode. The ball sometimes glosses right over the subway hole and bounces back to the rollovers, missing the hole.
There should be a ball deflector (01-12227) behind the hole that directs the ball down into the subway. Verify that your game has the deflector and that it hasn't come loose and is causing the rejects. The other alternative is that the ball is hitting the post just below the subway hole and bouncing back - it'd be good to take a slow motion video of this area when launching the ball, as this will help to determine what the actual issue is.
Quoted from smalltownguy2:I cannot transfer the actuator arm from the broken switch over to a new switch because it's the actuator arm that damaged. It appears the end of the arm has either broken off or has been worn short by being mal-adjusted and the drop target shaft sliding past it for what could be a very long time. I'd like to replace the entire switch/arm assembly and get it adjusted correctly so the drop target operates correctly.
Just for your reference the switch actuator arm (circled in green) is activated by the plastic tab (blue arrow) on the back of the target. When you say the drop target "shaft" is not triggering the switch, if you are referring to the lower of the 2 metal shafts with e-clips, these are permanently fixed to the bracket and is what keeps the target in position as it slides up and down (hence the slots in the target) and has nothing to do with triggering the switch.
It'll probably be easier to take the mech out to install and adjust the switch in the right position. When you reinstall the mech, check that when the drop target is down that the top of the target is flush with the PF, this is adjusted up/down by the screw (red arrow).
Drop target assembly2 (resized).jpgQuoted from BriannaWu:You all are so helpful for keeping this game running, I am going to admit I can't figure this out myself and ask for your expertise. Can you all help me chase my last few bugs? The game is playing fine, but I have this cascade of check switch errors. I'm not sure what is wrong or how to fix it.
Check Switch 32 under Gun SW2
Check Switch 38 Left Gun Shooter
Check Switch F1 R. Flipper EOS
Check Switch F5 UR Flipper EOS
Check Switch F5 UR Flipper EOS
I'm guessing one thing is off causing an entire bank to fail.
Also, this post for the Delta quadrant ramp is broken, but I'm not sure what part on Marco it is. Can someone verify for me?[quoted image]
The last 2 check switch in your list are the same - was that supposed to be another switch or was just a duplicate by mistake? If you go into switch test mode do each of the above switches work properly?
In regards to the delta ramp post, it is made up of 2 posts - https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/02-4659-1 goes into the PF and would have a rubber sleeve on it, and then https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=02-4934 screws into the top of the first post to help secure the wireform. These parts are listed in the manual on Posts page (pg 2-33)
Quoted from BriannaWu:You are correct. I accidentally transcribed the same error twice.
Thank you for that part number and the suggestion. I’ll go try that now. What is the best way to correspond these errors to the switches? Just guess and see which one fires? Or is there a table in the manual.
I guess when I identify which is not working, the best idea is to resolder and if that fails, replace the part?
Thank you for sharing your expertise. It means a lot to me.
Need to identify the issue first
Go into Switch Edge test (T1), look at the switch matrix picture on the DMD - none of switches on the far right column should be highlighted. Then stage the right flipper button - this will trigger the lower right flipper and on the screen it'll light F1 and F2 (the top 2 switches on the far right column), then push the flipper button fully in which will trigger the upper right flipper and on the screen it'll also light F5 and F6 on that column. Is this what you see?
Quoted from pinfarmer:I was cleaning my machine today and noticed this bit in the bottom of my game. I can't figure out what it is for and my game appears to be working just fine.[quoted image]
That is part of the single drop target - used to drop the target
It's listed in the parts list but not in the manual - here's the part you need to replace (as yours as broken) https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-8647-L
Quoted from BriannaWu:Not quite. Nothing is highlighted in that quadrant when I start the test. Left flipper triggers f4 and f8. Right one triggers F2 and F6. [quoted image]
Ok that shows none of the EOS switches are working
1. Lift the PF and activate the flippers - while the flipper bats are up (aka energised) look at the EOS switch on the flipper mech and verify that it has physically closed
2. Check and reseat J906 on the fliptronics board which connect to the EOS switches - retest in switch test mode
3. If no luck, remove J906 and while in switch test mode jumper J906-6 (far left pin) to one of pins 1, 3, 4 or 5 - do you see the switch closure on the DMD? Given each of the board's two LM339 chips do a combination of EOS and flipper switches and the flippers work I suspect that they are fine and issue is with the common ground pin/wire. If this test shows EOS switch closures on the DMD then the issue is with the ground wire or the socket; if the jumpering test doesn't show switch closures then I'd suspect solder cracking on pin J906-6
Quoted from mtadams29:Well, I finally got those pesky transistors replaced in my power board and the machine powers on and everything SEEMS like it's working.... EXCEPT.... When I turn the machine on it cycles up like normal and then continuously puts a ball in the launcher, launches it, diverts it to the left side of the playfield, then dumps it again. When I start a game I get two balls initially and the flippers and targets seem badly underpowered. Flippers will barely get the ball to the back of the game, going up a ramp is not happening. Where do I start troubleshooting?
Clear all the balls from the machine, then go into switch test mode - look at what switches are closed on the switch matrix on the DMD, then check all the switches work - including subway and ball trough switches. Verify that the subway diverters are working. To me either one of the diverters is not working properly or one of the subway optos is not registering the ball.
Can you explain what you mean by "targets seem badly underpowered"?
Quoted from Nacman:Interesting tidbits you bring up. I literally only have had the PS+ for a month installed. I have not submitted yet. I want to wrap my head around what I want to say to them in terms of sound kill files and why they have "mission start" in a jingle folder. It may go to why they have a jingle folder at all. With the Altsound files for STTNG they also do not reference the kill files, but it was clearly in the production notes from back in 1993.
See here
Star Trek The Next Generation Pinball (c) 1993 Wil (11/04/93 11:40:25) page 9
995 ($03e3) 0 0.0 0.0 SYSTEM Kill sound on track 0
996 ($03e4) 1 0.0 0.0 SYSTEM Kill sound on track 1
997 ($03e5) 2 0.0 0.0 SYSTEM Kill sound on track 2
998 ($03e6) 3 0.0 0.0 SYSTEM Kill sound on track 3
Depending on pinsound and what they tell me, maybe I can get them included. I know the MPU call them as I have seen it on my scope....Just don't know how they are handled on pinsound.
You say you are into Video...Does this make any sense to you? This is also from the production notes on STTNG
I think it is video calls for aspects in the game.
FMOREPLS 0x03E1A6 3936 162 0:01.244 25.309 BOB[6.50] -vb47 -vi15 -vr15
FNEEDNOW 0x03F106 4156 180 0:01.382 24.051 BOB[6.50] -vb47 -vi15 -vr15
FRNGI2 0x040142 6174 101 0:00.776 63.676 BOB[5.00] -vb63 -vi7 -vr47
FRNGI3 0x041960 8720 152 0:01.167 59.759 BOB[5.00] -vb63 -vi7 -vr47
I need to watch the DMD to see if Video plays on there when they say these things
The first line is F- for Ferengi and MOREPLS for when they say More please.
Same thing for FNEEDNOW - (F)erengi saying we need them now. Does a separate video play then?
I need to ask slippifishi about this. He does colorization and seems to really know his stuff.
-Nacman
Yes there are several clips that get displayed during Ferengi MB, showing the balls in play, when the Ferengi is talking and the Ferengi ship leaves at the end of the MB. There did seem to be different clips when the Ferengi is talking - I think it might play one clip when hitting the start mission scoop and the other plays when hitting the Neutral Zone scoop. There are multiple call-outs when hitting the start mission scoop but from what I could tell it was the same clip that is displayed.
Edit: Took the glass off this time to pay closer attention to the DMD.
Here is what I can observe when playing a game:
1. Ferengi MB start clip
2. "Need them now" is displayed once during the period Neutral Zone is active for Add-A-Ball (has the Ferengi on the screen with the message "Neutral Zone Adds Balls") - in fact it could all be part of the start clip or just a separate clip while add-a-ball is active
3. The balls in play (aka duranium spheres) clip is displayed if you add-a-ball - this pauses the above clip while it is displayed
4. Ferengi MB screen has the banner, score and jackpot value - this is the default screen during MB unless something is triggered
5. "More Please" is displays when you shoot the Start Mission Scoop (has the Ferengi on the screen with the Jackpot value)
6. Ferengi MB end clip
Quoted from mtadams29:Well, I'm losing my mind with this machine. I had everything working except the left flipper was occasionally weak. So, I replaced the flipper optos, new everything. Easy swap right? Well, now my machine is doing this: (see photo) What the photo doesn't show is the 2nd to right column, the far right inside the box, is flashing on and off, then it randomly fires a bunch of switches. I don't know what the hell happened! Like I said, I pulled the old flipper boards and put in new. Doing so blew fuses F114 and F115, which I replaced but still don't understand. Now this. Anyone seen this particular problem before?
[quoted image]
Did F114 and/or F115 blow after replacing them? You may have a short on the MPU board - worth taking a read and maybe running some of the checks https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message
Given the blown fuses I'm wondering if the problem is on the MPU board - here's how to verify the switch matrix is still ok https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems
Quoted from mtadams29:Yes, by way of an update, I swapped out the ULN2803A chip from my BOP machine just to see. Switches started working as expected. So the chip is bad. I still have an issue with flippers as only the upper right one works. Is is possible that I did something to the coils of the other two when I caused the short?
As MrMikeman indicated, check F903 and F904 which are the fuses for the lower flippers - they should be 3A SB fuses
Quoted from mtadams29:Fuses pulled and checked. All 4 are fine. Seems my issue is either at the coils, or on the flip board itself. I have a backup, so I will swap them out shortly as a first attempt.
Before swapping anything out, I'd suggest you check the voltage at each of the flipper coil lugs (3 lugs per coil)? If you have voltage on all 3 lugs, then it not only shows the power side is fine but also the coil is fine as well.
Also did you go into flipper coil test mode and see if the flippers work in test (this doesn't use the flipper opto switches to trigger the switches) - remember to close the coin door so the 50V power is enabled?
Quoted from mtadams29:Flipper coil test: Works for UR for flip and hold, left for flip and hold, LR for only flip, the HOLD does not engage the flipper. Voltage of each flipper coil lug reads 66.4(ish). Consistent across all three coils. Not sure what the lack of HOLD from the LR flipper indicates.
The hold test won't necessarily raise the lowered flipper, it is simply used to hold the already raised flipper - so maybe do the hold test and raise the flipper with your finger and see if the hold coil grabs the flipper and holds it up.
Your tests show that the flipper mechs are working fine, therefore I suspect a flipper opto switch issue - have you gone into switch test mode and verified they are working?
Quoted from radium:Been playing Godzilla lately and haven’t played STTNG in a long time till tonight. OH MY GOD my back is killing me from trying to nudge this beast. Machine kicked my ass all night and was a total drain monster.
That was to remind you not to ignore STTNG
That said I played Godzilla recently and yes it's a great game and very captivating
Quoted from frodak99:Working my way through this thread as I’m a new owner. The small crank arm on my right cannon broke yesterday. This part fell from the assembly, can anyone help me identify?
[quoted image]
Can you post another pic of the part showing it from the side? Might help identify it. Also put your hand or something in the pic so that we can get an idea of it’s actual size.
When you say it fell from the assembly, was it from above the PF or from the mech below the PF? Also in test mode, does the cannon motor run? Maybe take a video showing the mech (under the PF) running as it will help identify what is wrong
Quoted from mtadams29:Finally got it all put back together and found the flipper issue. The "New" opto boards that everyone claims are a direct replacement don't fit. The Optos are visibly larger on the new boards. Swapped my old boards back in after re-soldering and voila, working pin!
Can you post some pics of the old and new boards?
Quoted from Nacman:Interesting. These are the trough optos? I bought replacement boards and mine fit just fine. Maybe a different manufacturer?
No he was replacing the flipper opto boards, not the trough opto boards. However he mentioned soldering, so wondering whether he replaced the optos on the flipper opto boards (rather than doing a full board swap).
Quoted from mtadams29:No pics currently, I will try and grab some soon. The issue I found was that Marco's lists part A-20207-P as the direct replacement for the opto board compatible with STTNG. The manual lists this part number as A-20207.1, which Marco's also sells but claims is only compatible with the Indiana Jones pin. Going with Marco's recommendation I order the -P parts instead of the .1 parts. The sensors themselves are roughly 1/8th of an inch larger on the -P boards than they are on the .1 boards. My experience with them installed was that when the machine DID register the switch it would act like it was being hit repeatedly, most of the time it would say the switch was not engaged at all. I am currently waiting to hear back from Marco's on whether they will let me return the -P boards. I did extensively clean the original boards and reinstall them and am getting much better results. The quick solder job I had to do was on the resistors on one of the boards, no solder on the "top" of the board(outward facing side) at all.
As for the trough optos, those I replaced net new as well. They originals were a little hacked and scorched and once you've replaced most of the other boards, why not?
Quoted from mtadams29:OK, pics! First photo shows the original board on top of the new board matching up the optos. You can see the size difference between the two. The new board is larger. Second pic is them side by side, original on left, new on right. They look very much the same. Some more visual inspection on Marco's website of the A-20207.1 part makes me fairly certain that would be the correct board for this machine.
[quoted image][quoted image]
The subtle difference in the size of the opto won't be an issue as long as the interrupter can still break the beam and best not to rubbing against the sides of the opto. Is your interrupter white or black? I have read where people have discovered the white ones can cause issues. Did you try breaking the beam with something else?
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Technical thoughts please. Mini 8 Driver Board comparison
First, let me state I like Rottendog products and had good luck with them.
So this post is not about someone's general opinion about brands......
I would like to understand technically the difference, if any, from the Williams designed Mini 8 Driver Board and the Rottendog Version please.
I have included photos of both, so why are there less components on the RD board? In the posted information on the board, they mention "Simplified solenoid driver design using FET technology". ok cool.
Why am I asking? When I first got my machine, I didn't know about the mandatory TIE BACK mod, and the result was burning up a coil and a mini 8 driver board. Ok, I learned from this mistake. So on replacing the board (I will honestly admit my replacement skills of board components is lacking) I purchased the Rottendog board. It works, as well as other products from them. Recently I came across a post related to the Drop Target chattering issue, which I am still investigating. I have the same issue. Now let me state, it may be a bad switch, however the mini 8 driver board controls the drop target.
Anyway, thank you in advance for your worthwhile information and thoughts.[quoted image][quoted image]
In regards to understanding the technical differences between the 2 designs, the B/W board outputs are driven by TIP-102 transistors with a 2N4403 pre-driver - the 2 transistors are used in the circuit to "amplify" the power. The 74ALS576 octal latch turns on the 2N4403 transistor that can only handle a comparatively small amount of current, which in turn activates the TIP-102 transistor that can handle a much greater current load. While on the RD board the latch drives a single FET per output (rather than the pair of transistors), hence the comment you found stating the RD board has a "Simplified solenoid driver design using FET technology". I don't know what specific FET the RD board uses however there are a range of Youtube clips on FETs and also on the differences between bipolar transistors (BJT) such as the 2N4403 and TIP-102 verses FETs.
My suggestion would be get the original 8 Driver Board repaired (it'll be 1 or 2 transistors that'll need to be replaced) and you'd be able to swap over the boards as a way to confirm whether or not the RD version is the cause of the behaviour you're seeing. If you end up sticking with the RD board, you can sell off the B/W board to recoup the repair costs (plus some) or you could keep it as a spare.
Quoted from mtadams29:I'm looking for a link to a site to buy Cliffy's for my STTNG machine. Anyone have a go-to?
http://www.passionforpinball.com/sttng_scoop.htm
It has pricing and ordering details at the bottom of the page
STTNG Cliffy pricing (resized).jpgQuoted from Eric_Manuel:This is exactly why is group is so amazing. I had no idea this was the wrong board. Purchased it from Planetary Pinball, however it not their fault, they just sold me what i asked them too.
Your information is great, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!!
Yes the 8 Driver board has 2 variants depending upon the game it went it, and as per the PPS webpage the A-16100-2 in used on Demolition Man, Roadshow.
A-16100 has jumpers on SW2, SW4, SW6 and is used in TZ, STTNG and IJ; while A-16100-2 has jumpers on PW1, PW3, PW5 and is used in DM and RS.
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Auxiliary_8-Driver_Board_.28A-16100.29 has more details if you're intersted
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:MORE INFORMATION to share.
Tests are in. In the case of the 2 boards in the post, the A-16100-2 Driver Board did NOT change anything related to the noisy chattering drop target,
So this eliminates the board as being the cause of the noisy drop target, although not the cables/connectors to it. I re-watched your clip of the drop target and that chatter can also briefly be heard at the 29s & 34s mark of the clip - in these cases the drop target is down and seems to move slightly upward, but whether this is the main "up" coil or the small "drop" coil firing (or trying to fire) is hard to confirm and it'd be interesting to see what the switch state was in. Also at the 35s mark, the target is put up - at the start of it when the coil is being energised you can very briefly hear the chattering before the target comes up.
Couple of things:
1. Have you received/installed the replacement micro switch you ordered? Think this is probably the next thing to try
2. Reading back through your posts, you indicated you had a tie back issue that burnt out a new RD board and some coils - was one of the coils the "Up" coil? I assume you replaced the coil and sleeve, but wondering whether it has done some partial damage to some of the other components (eg wires, connectors or on the mech)
Definitely a strange issue - keep us informed what you find
Quoted from MrMikeman:If by chattering you mean the rapid reset (3 times) after the ball is plunged then you are chasing a non-existent problem. On the plunge(for the modes that do not let the ball go in the top hole) the ball bounces around a lot after hitting the target and there's a chance it may go in. All STTNG will rapidly reset the target UP 3 times when hit on the plunge. It's a way to decrease the odds that the ball will go in the hole unintentionally. In regular gameplay it will not do that 3X reset.
I find it odd that people try to find problems where there aren't any. Is the game working? yes? leave it be!
But that's not what is happening in the video that was provided, the chattering occurs when the drop target is down and the target remains down - it might be that the game is trying to put the target up but it doesn't go up. Check out the video at the 29s, 34s and 38s marks
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Yes...Exactly. Way after the ball hits the target and moved on, the target buzzes (3) time. (within the last 10 seconds of the video it's very obvious)
For what purpose would that need to happen? The target resets properly, or drops as needed for the game play operation. But to bump the coil (3) times multiple times, and countless times during game play seems like a bug or flaw to me. Wear and tear on the machine alone should be an issue....
I have the new micro switch to swap into the target tomorrow, if needed.
If the machine was really attempting to "reset the target", wouldn't it come up further??
I am not trying to overstate the problem, just uncover what to expect on restoring this machine. Thanks for your comments in advance.
I’d be swapping the switch and making sure it’s adjusted correctly, to see if that makes any difference.
After that I’d suggest checking the voltage you are getting at the 2 coils and also verifying the resistance of each of them as well. Following that I’d check that the drop target moves up & down freely (might be worth checking the coil stop nub hasn’t come lose or is mushroomed, and the bottom of the plunger isn’t damaged)
Quoted from NYP:I don’t think the game is trying to reset the target when it pulses 3 times, it’s trying to make sure the target is knocked down.
Yes if the switch is not working correctly then the game could be trying to drop the target yet the target is already down. In the video there are 2 times where there seems to be a single pulse (maybe the game then senses the target is down) and then another time towards the end of the video it pulses it 3 times.
Quoted from Thehipster:Question. If I damaged one opto would it make the game mis-load the balls?
Sorry thought you'd already verified all your switches, as per radium advice and information he'd shared, yet the game still wasn't staging the balls properly.
So first thing is to unload all the balls, go into switch edge test and take a pic of the switch matrix image on the DMD. Then load the six balls while still in switch edge test mode and take another pic of the switch matrix image. Then exit out of the service menu and close the coin door, the game should now attempt to stage 3 balls into the various subway locations, once this is complete (or even if it cycled more than 3 balls) open the coin door and go back into switch edge test and take another pic of the switch matrix image on the DMD. Post the 3 pics you've taken and let us know whether it was able to stage the 3 balls or if it kept continually cycling beyond that
Quoted from Days:hi, what is it the "ball through board" sets? thanks
Think it was a typo or auto-correct error; and it was supposed to read "ball trough boards".
One comment I have, is that swapping out working components such as optos and opto boards in doing a restoration is really up to the individual, their personal preference and the condition of the machine, so don't take it as something that you must do.
Quoted from Thehipster:I followed steps 1 and 2 but when I exited test mode nothing went to staging. The balls stayed in the trough.
1st image no balls loaded. 2nd image all balls loaded into the trough.
When I press start the game is looking for ball but does not send them to staging.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Yep that’s very interesting - looks like columns 3 & 4 aren’t working. These are all optos and they are showing open, when they should be showing closed. It’s like the main opto board isn’t working. Sorry I can’t think straight atm to tell you the next steps (currently in Emergency at hospital & struggling to focus through the pain). Hopefully one of the other guys will jump in and help out.
Quoted from Days:ok, thank you
Because i have a problem with my right gun, when the ball needs to go to the gun from the right the game blocks, the coil to make the ball jump to the gun it works correctly, but i think the problem is the opto, need to check that.
More i play to other pinballs the more i love my stng.
Yep I’d suggest following the guide I posted for Thehipster on removing the balls and reading them taking pics off the switch matrix. This will help identify what is happening and which opto is causing the issue
Quoted from radium:Ugh hope you are ok!
Quoted from Thehipster:Yes me too
Quoted from DumbAss:Get well wishes here too!
Thanks guys - much appreciated. Been diagnosed with kidney stones and will need to go under the knife due to the size (most likely today).
Looking at Pinside was a nice distraction … but didn’t last long
Quoted from PinFever:where oh where did that 6th ball go?
got to be in the bottom of the cab.
Could not have been playing it w/o 6 balls w/o the game going nutz.
Or hung up somewhere on the PF, like behind the mission start hole - an airball can land in there if there is no plastic covering that area
Quoted from Thehipster:I'm pretty sure it's a switch problem but I will work through all suggestions because the guys and girls on here are fantastic and I want to learn.
I believe that Robotworkshop and
PinFever posts are relating to
Days issue - not yours
Quoted from Thehipster:So tested all connectors and F116 is still intact.
Switch edges test is back to showing the missing opto rows. Would this indicate an opto problem or a short somewhere?
You can sometimes have a fuse blow for no apparent reason but vast majority is caused by a short, whether this be be due to a failed component or a shorted wire.
If it fails again, then follow the procedure you’ve used to troubleshoot and identify where the issue is.
Quoted from DumbAss:Things keep changing and with the delay of days and posts between each response I get confused quickly. Are you saying that the missing opto columns (all optos not showing up in switch tests) is back? Or are you saying that the entire row short (all rows in switch tests are showing closed) is back? These are two different problems but may be a manifestation of a problem from the 16-opto board. Or they could be coming from two completely different causes anywhere in the machine.
If things change without an obvious cause it is sometimes "positional" in that it may be related to the playfield position where an exposed wire is bent or contacting a grounded part of the cabinet. I have no proof/evidence for this because this is not stated anywhere but it is something that should be considered at the back of the mind because this kind of detail is often left out when people ask for help.
Yes and from the latest post it would seem to be an intermittent short and an exposed wire is a definite possibility. Looks like the shorted rows have also disappeared, which makes it hard to work out if the two are related or separate issues
Quoted from Thehipster:Single switch test says top left target and time target not functioning. In same row.
What was the issue with the 2 opto columns being out again? Was the fuse blown again? How did you fix the issue?
Previously you showed rows 7 & 8 were all closed (row was shorted), did you find out what was causing it? How did you fix the issue?
So other than the top left (sw# 51) and time (sw# 81) targets now not working, are you saying that the game is fully working with no other issues? Note that it is important to for us to know what has happened since you last post, otherwise it becomes extremely hard to troubleshoot given the issues are continually changing.
In regards to the 2 switches no working, have you verified if the left pop bumper (aka left jet) switch# 71 is working correctly?
Quoted from dscapo:Having a difficult time finding these if they exist… does anyone sell full replacement wiring harnesses for sttng besides the cannon looms?
I'm not aware of anyone selling the game specific wiring loom for STTNG (or any other WPC game). I have seen replacement secondary wiring harness previously for sale though
Quoted from dscapo:Why? Same reason many other replacement parts exist I guess. Generic “x number” pin harnesses cut to certain lengths didn’t seem outside the realm of possibility.
Thanks for the tip
Most likely the reason is that there wouldn't be enough demand to manufacture & stock these for each of the individual games.
Quoted from Thehipster:Yes the number 1 square at the top is not there in new test mode.
If switch# 61 is showing open, either the ball is being seen correctly (ie the ball is blocking the IR beam) or the IR LED (aka opto emitter) isn't working. Note that optos are normally closed (ie the opto receiver can detect the beam from the IR LED) and the switches go open when the ball blocks the IR beam. Can you remove all 6 balls and take a new photo of the switch matrix? Then reload all 6 balls and take another pic? Post the 2 new pics
In regards to switches 51 & 81 not working, I wanted you to test the left jet bumper switch (not the solenoid). Go into switch test mode and press the pop bumper skirt and verify that switch# 71 is being triggered
Quoted from mikehoss1414:Can someone help me out? I'm putting back together a star trek that I completely stripped...I bagged and took pics, so I know this is where these posts go, but it doesn't make sense as the star posts are about an eighth of an inch shorter than the far corner post. Am I missing something here or are these the wrong posts? It can't have been meant to be like this, but it makes sense that both front corners were broken off my plastics!
Thanks in advance
[quoted image]
That's how the games were made - you'll often see the cannon plastics are bent due to the different post heights
STTNG cannon plastic (resized).jpg
It was possibly originally designed to have star posts all-round and the plastic would have been flat but was then changed for some reason prior to production - pure speculation on my behalf
Quoted from TheMickster:That is the ugliest and very dull cannon cover I have ever seen,, I remade these many years ago, perfect original color, with some great physical enhancements and of course with the factory intended red domes, I really only sell these with my laser cannon kits, but I will offer as is, without the laser assembly for those that have these very old, and ugly covers...
https://www.mickspinball.com/star-trek-tng-kit-options
Thanks for looking,
Mick
I just grabbed a pic off the internet that showed the issue being discussed ...
Quoted from Thehipster:First image ball out of machine. 2nd pic balls in machine.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Ok so columns 3 & 4 (ie 16 opto board) are all open again - troubleshoot (as previously posted by @dumbass) please document each step you do and the result
1. Check the LED on the 16-opto board is illuminated. If illuminated go to Step 8 otherwise continue with Step 2
2. Check F116. If the fuse tests good go to Step 6 otherwise continue with Step 3
3. Disconnect J116/J117/J118. Power on the machine. If F116 blows you have a shorted BR5 and this needs to be fixed before proceeding.
4. If the fuse didn't blow, reconnect each of J116/J117/J118 one at a time until the fuse blows.
5. Post the steps you've done and results
6. Measure voltage at TP1 on the Power Driver Board
7. Test for +12VDC at J116-2 (or J117-2 or J118-2). You can measure red lead to J116-2 and black lead to J116-3 or black lead to ground braid.
8. Test for +12VU at the 16-opto board. Measure for +12VDC at J5-12. You can measure red lead to J5-12 and black lead to J5-13 or black lead to ground braid.
9. Post what you've done and results
In regards to switch# 61 being open, you previously mentioned that switches #51 and #81 weren't working either, so wondering if you have an issue on row 1. Go into switch test mode and confirm which (if any) of the row 1 switches are working?
Quoted from Thehipster:I think I will have to leave these tests until the weekend as my wife has been admitted to hospital.
I have asked the question before but had no answer. I think ir1 on the trough opto is not working. Would this cause the problem with staging?
Yes it would - see the second part of DumbAss post, as he gave a more indepth answer https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/152#post-6888548
Hope you’re wife is ok
Quoted from Thehipster:I checked the switch row and top left pop is OUT but top left bank target is ok. I didn't check under borg switch
Strange as you previously posted that top left bank (#51) and time (#81) were not functioning - have you fixed these?
Go into switch test mode and test each of the below switches (double check that the switch number displayed on the DMD matches the below)
1. Buy-in button - sw# 11
2. Slam Tilt (that's the one on the inside of the coin door) - sw# 21
3. Left Bank Top (that the top Ferengi target just above the left cannon) - sw# 51
4. Left Jet (aka left pop bumper) - sw# 71
5. Time (the left switch of Time Rift) - sw# 81
Let me know exactly which switch works and which ones don't. Also take note if multiple switches show up as being activated on the DMD's switch matrix image when triggering a switch.
Quoted from Thehipster:Results as follows.
S11 ok
S21 ok
S51 X
S71 X
S81 X
The ok switches all register where they should on the dot matrix. The x reads do not register a noise or a position on the dot matrix.
Hope this gives us a clue.
Great - nice work! So the row 1 switches are split between the cabinet (11 & 21) and PF (31, 41, 51, 61, 71 & 81). Due to the 2 cabinet switches working, we know that row 1 in the switch matrix is functioning. As for the PF switches, we know that 31 & 41 are not functioning due to the 16 opto board issue and you've previously confirmed 61 is non-operational. Hence your tests show that the remaining row 1 PF switches are all out, and therefore I suspect the J209-1 (right-hand pin on J209) connection on your CPU board or the white-brown wire that goes to it has a break in it. Check the white-brown wire is firmly held in the IDC connector, look for any potential connectivity issues with the white-brown wire, pull the J209 connector and check the header pins (particularly the right hand end one) are good, reseat the connector and go back into test mode to see if switch 51, 71 & 81 are operational. If they are still out, then you'll need to use a DMM to confirm the break in the white-brown wire. Let us know how you get on.
Quoted from Thehipster:The number 1 pin on J209 was actually bent at 90 degrees to the others and was in a shadow but I spotted it with a bright lamp. So ALL switches are working now.
I changed the trough opto for a new one and it did not register anything when I loaded the balls.
So I changed it back and it recognised all 6 balls in the trough.
Just no staging happening. Very frustrating. I will check the 16 opto board voltages and reseat the connectors at the weekend.
When switched on the cannon spin for a while and the vuks fire so the game is trying to locate the balls.
Your machine has multiple issues. Troubleshooting and fixing one issue, does not necessarily mean it’ll address all the other issues. Be happy that you fixed one issue and we can move onto the next one.
In regards to the replacement trough board, it’s always best to diagnose the problem before buying parts. The fact that multiple switches in row 1 all concurrently stopped working made me suspicious that the issue was not related to the individual switches (eg the opto on the trough board). Troubleshooting it has then confirmed and identified the issue. I say this to hopefully help you if/when facing any future issues.
Given the main opto board is not working (previously having blown 3 fuses), there is no surprise that the game will not functioning correctly. Just follow the steps I previously posted in order to troubleshoot the issue and let us know what you find. You will get there but you just need to be quite methodical when troubleshooting
Quoted from Thehipster:Are these any good? I tested J5 - 12 counting from right to left when on the board while attached to the playfield. It was 12vdc.
Should all of the mini opto leds be on when power is on?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I was just taking a look back at the pics you've posted of the 16 opto board header pins - a couple of pins appear bent as if the wrong connector could have been inserted and I recall that you had F116 blow which could potentially happen in this scenario, also you have previously bent pins when seating connectors (ie with the row 1 issue being caused by a misaligned J209-1). While the fuse did blow, it may have still damaged one of the chips on the opto board. Either way I suggest that you straighten those pins to make it easy to seat the connectors and while the connectors are keyed to the specific headers, it's useful to write the associated header connection (eg J1) on the connector.
Still worth excluding the CPU board using the Pinwiki test procedure, as per DumbAss's post
16 Opto - J1 (resized).jpg16 Opto - J3 (resized).jpgQuoted from Thehipster:Update!
16 Opto and cpu en route to an engineer who has a ST:TNG.
He is great guy who has fixed things for me before so fingers crossed
Why are you getting a CPU board, as you confirmed that the CPU board is working correctly?
Quoted from Brewchap:Where Is the top diverter? Is it located under the Borg ship? So I can understand, how does the diverter work with the ball launcher?
STTNG stages 3 balls at various VUKs prior to a game being played - the subway has 2 diverters which that game triggers to direct the balls to the appropriate VUK. So if you remove all the balls from the game and then put them back in, the game will then proceed to launch 3 balls to stage them; depending upon where the balls are located at the end of a game, the machine may need to restage 1-3 balls.
To check the diverters, remove all the balls and raise the PF - you'll see the diverters in subway. Then go into Solenoid test and scroll through to you get to the diverters - remember to close the coin door to verify the coils are working.
Quoted from Jeff1960:Does anyone have a photo of the ball trough wiring and I'm unsure of the connector size that connects to the opto board.
5 pin for the LED board and 12 pin for the Photo Transistor board
STTNG Trough connectors (resized).jpgQuoted from Jeff1960:Would anyone have a photo of how the wiring goes under the cannon cover I’m not sure on the new looms.
Thanks Jeff
[quoted image][quoted image]
Does this help https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/128#post-6422191
Quoted from tectonyc:Test report keeps telling me to check the top drop switch, but it goes up and down perfectly fine in the solenoid test. Any ideas?
Even though the drop target goes up & down in solenoid test, it doesn't mean the drop target switch is registering it correctly. You need to raise the target in solenoid test, then change to switch test and verify the status of the drop target switch (#57), then manually drop the target and see if it correctly reflects the change in state in the switch status. It could be a failed switch or solder joint, or simply the switch just needs some adjustment.
Quoted from SNES:Hey everyone, I just joined the club a couple of weeks ago! On game turn on, are both cannons supposed to run a test? My right cannon goes back and forth but the left one doesn’t move. It works fine during gameplay though. Any idea what that is about?
Thanks!
That's normal, nothing to worry about.
Pin_Guy (resident expert on all things STTNG) stated "I believe the game tests only one cannon to check the validity of the column 9 pulse on startup, if more than one cannon is being tested, the game is checking for cannon switch operation prior to flagging a switch error for failure to change states in X games."
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:There are (2) switches per cannon located under the playfield. One switch tells the cannon position when it's HOME, the other switch "activates" the ability for the player to shoot the ball (preventing you from shooting it too soon thus back down the ramp.
If you just got the pin, you've got some TLC to do on it. Due to the age, the motors and the mech is likely gummed up. The LOOMs (wiring harnesses which control the opto, light, coil) in each cannon often break somewhere in the harness. You should (in all cases) replace the cannon looms.
If the motor isn't working, it's could have it's own issues, or the gears are gummed up. Trust me, it's a pain to take them out, however you can buy new motors. Also, each motor is controlled by a little board. Trace the wires underneath and see if everything seems connected.
Roll up your sleeves and welcome to the world of pinball service!
LOL ... how is this relevant ???
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Has anyone heard anything about Soren's progress on working on a STTNG Firmware update??
Soren has never shared the list of machines he's actually working on or what is planned.
Quoted from ingo333:regarding the turning cannons again... I have a theory about the plungers:
- if the home switch is not closed at start-up, cannons turn until they find home.
- if the home switch is closed at start-up, the interruption of the opto (with the plunger) causes them to turn.
- I've been adjusting my mark switches, and if they are not closed at start-up, the plunger does not fire... even if the home switch is closed.
now to the interesting part:
- the plunger pulse at start-up is exactly the same as when you don't shoot the ball out of a cannon AND the mark-switch gets triggered (from 0 to 1)...
and now a pretty simple explanation for the plunger action at startup:
- probably the plunger pulse is just the switch matrix handler for the mark-switch being initialized and going from 0 to 1...
I'm just starting with WPC PinMame Debugging (in for 3 days now) but once I'm at speed and have found and fixed that 6+2 bug that has haunted me for months now....I'm going to find out why the cannons are firing at startup... and what causes them to turn exactly. =)
but for now, my theory sounds pretty solid. right?
What’s the 6+2 bug?
Quoted from tectonyc:Can anyone take a pic of their J126 connection?
Found this pic of J126 in the thread's gallery (courtesy of MrMikeman)
If you're after the pinout wire colours, this is from the manual
STTNG J126 wiring (resized).jpgQuoted from Mathazar:Time to fix a previous owner's hack that I should've fixed 2 years ago when I first got the machine. When I got this STTNG back in March 2020, I did the following:
- Full top-side tear down, cleaning (including ultrasonic and tumbling for metal bits), and waxing
- New balls and rubbers
- Tie Back mod
- LED conversion (both GI and Control)
- Added ColorDMD
- Added PinSound, including new speakers and stereo cable
- Re-pinned most connectors in the backbox and corrected some fairly bad wiring hack jobs
The hack job left over is in trough wiring. I left it alone because, frankly, it was working, reliable, and I wanted to play.
Now a couple of years later, I'm getting intermittent opto issues in the trough and the game loses track of how many balls are in play. It's usually Trough SW1 and Trough SW2 that are incorrect. The PCBs seem ok....I can wiggle the wires at the IDC connector and get the switches to work. Here's the ugly looking hack, with Ground and +12V soldered directly to each of the trough PCBs and not part of either connector housing:
[quoted image]
I can wiggle the flaky wires into place and keep playing, but it's time to fix this right. I'm not fan of IDC connectors and had planned on re-pinning these as Molex, but most of these wires "loop" into the IDC connector. How do I convert to the Molex type pin? Cut the loop of the wire, creating two ends, and crimp a pin onto those two ends?
If crimping two 22G wires to a molex crimp terminal, depending upon the terminal/housing series some have 2 crimp terminal sizes available, so you can use a larger 18G crimp terminal to help cater for the additional wire. Of course putting 2 wires into a single crimp is not what Molex recommend or test - so the other method is to have a single wire going into the terminal and then splicing the 2 wires to that single wire behind the connector (covering the splice with heat shrink).
Quoted from tectonyc:The start and buy in buttons flash as expected in the test despite being disconnected?
The cabinet controlled lamps (eg start and buy-in) connect to J133 and J136, whereas I'm guessing your lamp test board is only connecting to J135 and J138 (which are only the PF lamps).
Quoted from Crispy77:Broken left vuk, can't seem to find the part # in the manual? For now I have epoxy'd it back together and swapped it with the right vuk (less abuse), but would like to find a new replacement.[quoted image]
You have to buy the complete armature (A-13270), as they don't sell the top and bottom components separately.
Looks like A-17767 replaces the original A-13270
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-17767
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-bell-armature-plunger-assembly-a-17767.html
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Melbourne
Winston-salem, NC