(Topic ID: 47092)

St:tng owners welcome aboard the uss enterprise


By Pinballgeek

6 years ago



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#2901 6 months ago
Quoted from edward472:

Figured I'd ask here to get the most knowledgeable answer. I'm thinking about bringing the project STTNG pin in the marketplace back to life : https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/78268 STTNG has been on my list for awhile, but I can't justify the price they are currently going for.

This machine was kept in a damp environment for a LONG time ... I can only imagine how musty the cabinet smells

My thoughts are this:
I like that it has all original boards although the CPU is done for.
The playfield appears to be in fairly good shape, I don't see any ghosting around the shield inserts which is common for this game.
This game is going to be a corrosion nightmare, most of the upper playfield parts are stainless so will clean up pretty well, the underside is a different animal and the lamp sockets are going to be very problematic as once corrosion gets in them the only real fix is replacing them.

Since it doesn't boot, you have no way to know what all is wrong, you will need to get the game to a working state BEFORE you begin the restoration so you can find out what all you have to fix during the restoration as well as know what stopped working because of the restoration.

IMO the current owner paid way too much for it, I would be hesitant to purchase it at all without seeing it in person, and even then assuming I didnt find anything not in the pictures, I wouldn't want to spend more than $2500 for it in its current condition and wouldn't spend more than $2800. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost you at least $2000 ($3000 if you replace the playfield) on top of what the machine cost you to restore it to new condition.

#2902 6 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

This machine was kept in a damp environment for a LONG time ... I can only imagine how musty the cabinet smells
My thoughts are this:
I like that it has all original boards although the CPU is done for.
The playfield appears to be in fairly good shape, I don't see any ghosting around the shield inserts which is common for this game.
This game is going to be a corrosion nightmare, most of the upper playfield parts are stainless so will clean up pretty well, the underside is a different animal and the lamp sockets are going to be very problematic as once corrosion gets in them the only real fix is replacing them.
Since it doesn't boot, you have no way to know what all is wrong, you will need to get the game to a working state BEFORE you begin the restoration so you can find out what all you have to fix during the restoration as well as know what stopped working because of the restoration.
IMO the current owner paid way too much for it, I would be hesitant to purchase it at all without seeing it in person, and even then assuming I didnt find anything not in the pictures, I wouldn't want to spend more than $2500 for it in its current condition and wouldn't spend more than $2800. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost you at least $2000 ($3000 if you replace the playfield) on top of what the machine cost you to restore it to new condition.

Yeah, for that I could just buy a working one. When I started pricing out parts, which were surprisingly available it just got too expensive too quick. You wouldnt believe how fast the humidity down here destroys metal

#2903 6 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

The point you are referencing on the a driver board comes from your 50V source at J107-1 on the power driver board, through the tieback wire connected to J4-1; there is no other source of 50V on the power driver board. The the only reason you have 50V there is because its the voltage on the coil and its only there because the flyback diodes are located on this board and they must be connected across the coils in order to discharge the high voltage pulse that's generated when to coil power is removed and its field collapses.

Ok, So though it's shown as part of the circuit (logical), it's physically connected back through that pin. That makes way more sense.

J3 doesn't have a tie back because there's only flashers on those solenoid so there's no reverse voltage generated by the field collapse, right?

Would it not make more sense if the +50v went via the 8 driver board? That way there wouldn't be a need to tieback as such because the diode must be part of the circuit if the coil has power?

#2904 6 months ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

Anyone have a problem with their neutral zone cliffy being loose and floating around the hole too much? Maybe I have to bed the gripper parts in a bit?

I have this issue too. No matter how many adjustments I make it won't sit still.

I'm thinking about getting one of these Mantis protectors instead.

https://mantispinball.com/product/star-trek-the-next-generation-neutral-zone-protector/

#2905 6 months ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

I have this issue too. No matter how many adjustments I make it won't sit still.
I'm thinking about getting one of these Mantis protectors instead.
https://mantispinball.com/product/star-trek-the-next-generation-neutral-zone-protector/

Glad I’m not the only one. That looks like it would offer good protection but won’t hide wear.

I might try the old style Cliffy from Pinball Life. It has screw holes to secure the Cliffy.

https://www.pinballlife.com/williams-star-trek-the-next-generation-cliffy-neutral-zone-protector.html

28E0645B-1F48-4546-BA92-54C0666CCBA9 (resized).jpeg
#2906 6 months ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

I might try the old style Cliffy from Pinball Life. It has screw holes to secure the Cliffy.

I had the same problem so I just drilled a hole in the bottom center of the protector and screwed it in to the bottom of the playfield similar to the old protectors. Works great!

#2907 6 months ago
Quoted from BriPin:

I had the same problem so I just drilled a hole in the bottom center of the protector and screwed it in to the bottom of the playfield similar to the old protectors. Works great!

I was going to look into that as well. Might also just use the head of a screw to hold down the edge of the flap. I would think that would work too.

#2908 6 months ago

My STTNG is having a full restoration with the thread on https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-the-next-generation-complete-restoration. I will update this as we go. STTNG, an all time classic.

#2909 6 months ago
Quoted from BriPin:

I had the same problem so I just drilled a hole in the bottom center of the protector and screwed it in to the bottom of the playfield similar to the old protectors. Works great!

Smart! I’ll give this a shot before buying the old style.

#2910 6 months ago

My left return lane switch is stuck open and has been since I bought the game. Any ideas? Why do I get the feeling this is going to be a tough one to track down? The right side works fine. I pulled the 4 pin plug and it went out. Does that mean it's further up the chain past the board?
IMG_20190424_191701 (resized).jpg

#2911 6 months ago

Have you tried adjusting it? The round potentiometer (R2) controls the sensitivity, you turn it until the light comes on, then back it off until the light just goes out.

#2912 6 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Have you tried adjusting it? The round potentiometer (R2) controls the sensitivity, you turn it until the light comes on, then back it off until the light just goes out.

Thank you. I thought this might be the case but didn't want to go turning something that didn't need to be turned. I'll try this tonight when I get home.

#2913 6 months ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

Thank you. I thought this might be the case but didn't want to go turning something that didn't need to be turned. I'll try this tonight when I get home.

That's the eddy sensors, Alex. Adjust that pot as the you pass the ball through the lane until it starts registering.
Easy peasy.

#2914 6 months ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

Glad I’m not the only one. That looks like it would offer good protection but won’t hide wear.
I might try the old style Cliffy from Pinball Life. It has screw holes to secure the Cliffy.
https://www.pinballlife.com/williams-star-trek-the-next-generation-cliffy-neutral-zone-protector.html
[quoted image]

Ended up using a combo solution to my loose Cliffy. Cliff sent me some 3M adhesive strips (without even asking for them! Sweet!). And also drilled a hole in the bottom tab of the cliffy and used a small screw to secure. (bripin suggestion). Should be good now.

#2915 6 months ago
Quoted from Enaud:

That's the eddy sensors, Alex. Adjust that pot as the you pass the ball through the lane until it starts registering.
Easy peasy.

Yep that worked. I'm getting about 300% more hurry ups than I previously was getting. Can't believe I've had this game for 2 years and never thought about that once.

#2916 6 months ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

Ended up using a combo solution to my loose Cliffy. Cliff sent me some 3M adhesive strips (without even asking for them! Sweet!). And also drilled a hole in the bottom tab of the cliffy and used a small screw to secure. (bripin suggestion). Should be good now.

What kind of 3M strips? I ended up just using 2 screws with wide heads to grab onto the edges of the large flap. It worked well for the front part, but the sides are still slightly elevated.

#2917 6 months ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

What kind of 3M strips? I ended up just using 2 screws with wide heads to grab onto the edges of the large flap. It worked well for the front part, but the sides are still slightly elevated.

That’s what I was afraid of and the tape did the trick. I can see if I have the backing still laying around because I’m not sure off hand. Really thin pieces. He also included a little alcohol swap for prepping the surface which was nice.

#2918 6 months ago

I’m in the process or reassembling my sttng and have a question. I bought all new posts (star and straight). I was assembling the slingshot area today and noticed that the straight posts are taller than the star posts. So the slingshot plastic would be bent if I attach all 3 of the acorn nuts. Bowed in the center when it connects to the center star post. Is that normal? Seems odd, but I think I have the right posts...

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#2919 6 months ago
Quoted from PinJim:

I’m in the process or reassembling my sttng and have a question. I bought all new posts (star and straight). I was assembling the slingshot area today and noticed that the straight posts are taller than the star posts. So the slingshot plastic would be bent if I attach all 3 of the acorn nuts. Bowed in the center when it connects to the center star post. Is that normal? Seems odd, but I think I have the right posts...[quoted image][quoted image]

Not sure if it’s stock, but there are shorter orange colored straight posts which are the same height as the star posts. you may just want to order some, it doesn’t look like there would be an issue

#2920 6 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Not sure if it’s stock, but there are shorter orange colored straight posts which are the same height as the star posts. you may just want to order some, it doesn’t look like there would be an issue

Or file 1/16" off the straight posts you have. Agree, that doesn't sound right.

#2921 6 months ago

Waiting for pin_guy to answer your question in 3, 2, 1.........

#2922 6 months ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Or file 1/16" off the straight posts you have. Agree, that doesn't sound right.

I suppose I could. I guess my bigger question is, how did it ship from the factory?

Prior to tear down, I took the attached picture. You'll note that there's a large washer on the bottom star post. Perhaps it served two purposes: to protect the sling plastic, and to increase the height of the star post so it's the same as the straight post. Maybe. Still though, the middle star post would be at a lower height, and I suppose I could not fully tighten the nut on that one.

Surely others have seen this and can chime in on how theirs are set up?

pasted_image (resized).png
#2923 6 months ago
Quoted from PinJim:

I suppose I could. I guess my bigger question is, how did it ship from the factory?
Prior to tear down, I took the attached picture. You'll note that there's a large washer on the bottom star post. Perhaps it served two purposes: to protect the sling plastic, and to increase the height of the star post so it's the same as the straight post. Maybe. Still though, the middle star post would be at a lower height, and I suppose I could not fully tighten the nut on that one.
Surely others have seen this and can chime in on how theirs are set up?[quoted image]

Not sure if this helps you but here's a picture of how mine are set up:

STTNG Sling Posts (resized).jpg
#2924 6 months ago

is their a proven way to lube the gun/turit so the are smoother/faster?

#2925 6 months ago
Quoted from TZBen:

is their a proven way to lube the gun/turit so the are smoother/faster?

sillicon oil, very lightly, doesn't dry out, makes it turn very smooth

#2926 6 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Not sure if this helps you but here's a picture of how mine are set up:[quoted image]

Thanks, yours looks nice and level. I guess I'll have to ditch the full-under plastic guard and revert back to some sort of washer setup. Rather have that than bent plastics...

#2927 6 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Waiting for pin_guy to answer your question in 3, 2, 1.........

LOL...

I believe these plastics did have a bend to them when the machines left the factory. If you want them to be straight (who wouldnt?) all you need to do is add washers to take up the extra space...keep in mind if you add a plastic protective washer to the straight post you are amplifying the problem. I put my clear protective washers to the star posts as well as adding star post lighting (you wont be sorry) to offset the differences in length and it looks great! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/4#post-2885291

#2928 6 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

LOL...
I believe these plastics did have a bend to them when the machines left the factory. If you want them to be straight (who wouldnt?) all you need to do is add washers to take up the extra space...keep in mind if you add a plastic protective washer to the straight post you are amplifying the problem. I put my clear protective washers to the star posts as well as adding star post lighting (you wont be sorry) to offset the differences in length and it looks great! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/4#post-2885291

Wow! I just read the post you linked to and those blue pop bumpers and lit star posts look great! I just searched and found a star post lighting kit on the Pinball Life website. Don't know if those would be the right ones though. I'm new to pinball ownership. I got two machines late last year and STTNG was the first one. Would star post lighting installation be difficult for an accountant with limited mechanical experience & skills?

#2929 6 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Would star post lighting installation be difficult for an accountant with limited mechanical experience & skills?

you only have to solder the wires to the GI light under the slingshot plastic; if you know how to solder its simple, and would take less than a minute.

#2930 6 months ago
Quoted from PinJim:

I’m in the process or reassembling my sttng and have a question. I bought all new posts (star and straight). I was assembling the slingshot area today and noticed that the straight posts are taller than the star posts. So the slingshot plastic would be bent if I attach all 3 of the acorn nuts. Bowed in the center when it connects to the center star post. Is that normal? Seems odd, but I think I have the right posts...[quoted image][quoted image]

You could add #6/#8 washers to shim up the shorter posts.

#2931 6 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

You could add #6/#8 washers to shim up the shorter posts.

That’s what I ended up doing. Only downside is there’s not much thread for the nylon nut to screw onto. But it looks like it’ll hold....

#2932 6 months ago

Where is the Borg Lock switch? It says switch 31 but I don’t see it on the playfield picture in the manual.

0F5E104E-1B06-4B60-AE58-AD83CB5487FE (resized).png Added 6 months ago:

Found it at the top opt inside the back of the ship. Not sure why it isn’t in the manual..

#2933 6 months ago

Nevermind I found it.. I am having an issue with a couple of opt switches

Switch 33 right gun switch 2
Switch 43 Left lock switch 4

Both aren’t working correctly. Replace the transmitter for both. I am not getting power to either switch.

Added 6 months ago:

Fixed loose connection on opt board..

#2934 6 months ago

All the switches in the row are working except for those two.

82CC9E1D-12BE-4603-8C29-804B8FD80D72 (resized).jpeg Added 6 months ago:

Fixed bad connection on opt board

#2935 6 months ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Both aren’t working correctly. Replace the transmitter for both. I am not getting power to either switch.

Are you not getting power to the IR LED, or to the photo transistor board? What points are you measuring to determine this?
Optical Emitter (resized).pngOpto receiver (resized).png

Ignoring the voltage reading as a potential issue, the most like failure point to cause a failure of both switches would be a broken connection between J5-3 (row outputs) on the 16 opto board and J209-3 (row inputs) on the CPU board.

#2936 6 months ago

Thanks, I checked all connections and everything is working now except switch 37 under right gun switch 1 so I checked switches 27 and 47 around that switch and they are both working.i have continuity on the white/violet wire between all three switches in that row too. Thought maybe there would be a broken connection. I don’t see any broken wires off those switches. The voltage isn’t correct on the transmitter it says -12

66BCD5C2-44E8-4223-9250-206A64E0163D (resized).jpeg

#2937 6 months ago

According to the switch matrix that switch 37 is on the white/violet wire but I don’t see that color wire on the opt.. I see a grey/yellow, black, orange/black, and grey/purple attached to the transmitter and receiver -colors could be off I am recalling from memory earlier. Am I reading this switch matrix wrong?

33AF070B-35EB-4864-B38E-161583337420 (resized).jpeg
#2938 6 months ago

The optos feed to the 16 opto controller board don't they? So you'd have the correct colours at J5 on that board?

#2939 6 months ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

The optos feed to the 16 opto controller board don't they? So you'd have the correct colours at J5 on that board?

Yes, I believe that is correct. But my question is once it goes into the 16opt controller board the wires must come out of the board a different color for that switch back to the cpu correct? I get continuity from the switch to the 16opt controller board, but when I go from the switch 37 to the cpu I don't get continuity. Any thoughts?

#2940 6 months ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Yes, I believe that is correct. But my question is once it goes into the 16opt controller board the wires must come out of the board a different color for that switch back to the cpu correct? I get continuity from the switch to the 16opt controller board, but when I go from the switch 37 to the cpu I don't get continuity. Any thoughts?

Did you check all the switches in that row? When I had 2 bad optos like that a wire disconnected from a different switch in the row. And bc STTNG is notorious for opto problems I didn’t look for a loose wire at first.

#2941 6 months ago
Quoted from jathomp22:

Did you check all the switches in that row? When I had 2 bad optos like that a wire disconnected from a different switch in the row. And bc STTNG is notorious for opto problems I didn’t look for a loose wire at first.

All the other switches work in that row. I'll double check later tonight..

#2942 6 months ago
Quoted from pacman11:

ccording to the switch matrix that switch 37 is on the white/violet wire but I don’t see that color wire on the opt.. I see a grey/yellow, black, orange/black, and grey/purple attached to the transmitter and receiver -colors could be off I am recalling from memory earlier. Am I reading this switch matrix wrong?

I thought the 2-opto VUKS have the same part number and are interchangeable, this would meant they have the same wire colors; if I'm incorrect on this, then someone may have swapped the positions of two of the VUKs since they are mechanically and electrically identical. See Images:
1131 (resized).JPG
1132 (resized).JPG

Quoted from pacman11:

But my question is once it goes into the 16opt controller board the wires must come out of the board a different color for that switch back to the cpu correct? I get continuity from the switch to the 16opt controller board, but when I go from the switch 37 to the cpu I don't get continuity. Any thoughts?

pasted_image (resized).png

pasted_image (resized).png
#2943 6 months ago

Thank you I will check continuity between those points.

#2944 6 months ago

Question after my nightly butt whoopin on STTNG. I've noticed a few things over the month or so I've owned the machine. First, the time rift targets are deadly and seem to send the ball SDTM. Second, THOSE OUTLANES! Is there any way to save the ball once it gets over on the top of the pops? I've tried nudging up, sideways, seems to just be luck of the draw and how fast the ball comes off the top of that pop.

My game does not have lane extenders on it BTW.

#2945 6 months ago

Alright I have continuity at all points, switches around 37 in row and columns. Continuity to the 16opt board and to cpu.

Picture of switch 37 below.
Transmitter appears to be grey/blue
Receiver appears to be orange/violet

FC2BB2AD-3AF7-458D-B58A-D141A00D5BB8 (resized).jpegB59BC0FD-B606-4B55-A546-33FFB90EBCDF (resized).jpeg

#2946 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Question after my nightly butt whoopin on STTNG. I've noticed a few things over the month or so I've owned the machine. First, the time rift targets are deadly and seem to send the ball SDTM. Second, THOSE OUTLANES! Is there any way to save the ball once it gets over on the top of the pops? I've tried nudging up, sideways, seems to just be luck of the draw and how fast the ball comes off the top of that pop.
My game does not have lane extenders on it BTW.

Yeah, that sounds like a STTNG alright! BTW they are slings on the sides above the flippers, "pops" are pop bumpers that are up in the top right corner under the ramp. As for methods to save balls headed anywhere close to the outlanes or top of the slings, this game is very different than any other I've played because of the odd shape of the slings and the outlane guide position. On the right you can sometimes have success trying to make it go farther right and bouncing back in, which is counter-intuitive. On the left it's just nearly impossible, even slow rollers can easily end up in the outlane so you better hope you have the kickback lit.

#2947 6 months ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Alright I have continuity at all points, switches around 37 in row and columns. Continuity to the 16opt board and to cpu.
Picture of switch 37 below.
Transmitter appears to be grey/blue
Receiver appears to be orange/violet
[quoted image][quoted image]

Did I miss something and you fixed the problem where you have 12V at the emitter instead of ~1.5V but the switch still doesn't work? If you point your cell phone camera at the emitter is it glowing?

#2948 6 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Yeah, that sounds like a STTNG alright! BTW they are slings on the sides above the flippers, "pops" are pop bumpers that are up in the top right corner under the ramp. As for methods to save balls headed anywhere close to the outlanes or top of the slings, this game is very different than any other I've played because of the odd shape of the slings and the outlane guide position. On the right you can sometimes have success trying to make it go farther right and bouncing back in, which is counter-intuitive. On the left it's just nearly impossible, even slow rollers can easily end up in the outlane so you better hope you have the kickback lit.

Ok I’ll try that. Looking at that part of the playfield on the right I was wondering about trying to nudge it into the rubber that’s to the right and see if it would bounce back into the inlane. It’s a tough spot over there for sure!

Yes, I meant slings, not pops! My bad!

Also I am wondering how often people use the upper flipper unless the ball is traveling with enough momentum to have a decent shot at making the delta ramp. My experience is sending the ball sideways on the playfield often ends in a post hit and a drain.

#2949 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Ok I’ll try that. Looking at that part of the playfield on the right I was wondering about trying to nudge it into the rubber that’s to the right and see if it would bounce back into the inlane. It’s a tough spot over there for sure!
Yes, I meant slings, not pops! My bad!
Also I am wondering how often people use the upper flipper unless the ball is traveling with enough momentum to have a decent shot at making the delta ramp. My experience is sending the ball sideways on the playfield often ends in a post hit and a drain.

I go for Delta even when I probably shouldn’t. Always trying to get my warp up.

The outlines are tough. I nudge like crazy trying to stay away from the outside.

#2950 6 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Did I miss something and you fixed the problem where you have 12V at the emitter instead of ~1.5V but the switch still doesn't work? If you point your cell phone camera at the emitter is it glowing?

I'll double check this evening..

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