almost definitely not -- for one thing, there were almost 12,000 produced. it's one of the easiest games to find.

second, you don't really have anyone making games with such extensive mechs anymore. two cannons, a subway with 3 entrances, 3 exits, and two diverters, another diverter by the borg ship, 3 VUKs, physical kickback, another kicker in the borg ship, a custom drop target mech under the borg ship, and a decent amount of wireform.

third, it'd probably be not just expensive, but a pain in the ass logistically to get the licensing from not just CBS (which owns TNG i think), but also permissions from all the cast members to use their voices and likenesses. Patrick Stewart alone would probably be pretty expensive today.

You're talking about this video?

If so, both of the LEDs shown look pretty bad to me. They do dim, but they both flicker at lower brightness. The author of that post also says:

It sounds to me like he wasn't satisfied with the results.

I don't care if you buy a board or not, but I've seen you asking this question in what feels like half a dozen threads, and some very knowledgeable people have responded. I do not think that good results for both dimming and flicker rejection are possible in a standard sized LED. To avoid the flicker, you end up using capacitors, assuming you can find high enough values that are small enough to fit. Those end up charging to the input voltage and the LEDs will show near full brightness.

That's flipping right!!!!

STTNG made today would be a Super-Ultra-Galactic Limited Edition, worth $20k.

herg , it’s been 3 threads, one I started and drained when I found the video and got responses elsewhere.

I’ve asked if the Comet LEDs work as well as NOFLIX, and if cointaker premiums are comparable.

I’ve seen NOFLIX in person, it’s slightly better than the Comet in the video.

Compared to LED OCD or GI OCD it’s like comparing a Camaro and a Ferrari.

Your boards are amazing. However, they are expensive, and in the case of my STTNG incompatible(without a mod I’d rather not make) since I have a kbop led mod.

It’d be nice for those of us who have to trade up over years to get into nice pins had a more economical solution...even if it isn’t nearly the performance level of your gear.

The issue for me was that NOFLIX are expensive and have to shipped from Germany. I was hoping Comet would work. That’s about when I found the video.

I also want my shields to be blue, but even those noflix LEDs won't cut it for me. Eventhough herg's board is well worth the expense, I'm not sure I'd want to go with entirely LED based GI...

Has anyone tried just using blue incandescents for the shields?

https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=45

Honestly, I’ve never said anything but good things about the OCD boards.

They ARE worth the money, I’d have one in every machine, and I’d have a lot more DMD titles.

I’m just trying to find an alternate solution that provides better performance than what I have, that’s more in my budget.

I mean I think a WOZ ruby red is worth it, but I’ll never have one.

I have Herg's GI OCD in my STTNG and LOVE it. IMO it is a must have on this title if you use LEDs in the GI. As I have said elsewhere, the dimming effects in Borg multiball are awesome.

Next best GI OCD feature - you can configure the backbox lights turn to off when you in game eliminating glare from the PF glass. Add a DMD glare filter (~$15 from Comet or PBL) and it's like having PDI glass included free!

It’s really weird to go back and read the thread the video is in, and compare the “it does work, but not perfectly ” “it helps a little” reactions and interest in seeing some progress being made.

To today, where apparently trying to find info about a more cost effective solution that isn’t close to the level of perfection of the OCD boards....generates a lot of, “it doesn’t work at all, either OCD or turn off dimming” feedback.

Herg's work has raised everyone's standards.

Fair point.

I can't remember the details but I believe you can run a very limited number of incandescent bulbs with the GI-OCD board before you'll exceed the current draw and blow a fuse. Herg or someone else would have to chime in with the specifics of that as it's been too long since I converted mine.

I have Comets in mine, but no OCD (yes the shields flicker). It's been years since I've played one with regular bulbs and don't remember the Borg multiball dimming effect. I'm obviously missing a cool part of the game.

Each GI string is fused at 2A on GI OCD. You can run a max of probably 5 incandescent or so per string, along with the remaining LEDs.

I don't think that's Mocean was getting at, though. It wouldn't make much sense to leave a bunch of bulbs incandescent AND install a GI OCD. If you want to keep to a budget, which is entirely understandable, keeping all incandescent in the GI is a viable option.

Good options I can think of:
1. Leave it incandescent.
2. Install LEDs in the GI, but leave the shields incandescent to avoid flicker right in the middle of the playfield.
3. Install LEDs and turn off dimming.
4. Find LEDs that work well enough for your personal performance tolerance. There are none that meet this for me, BTW.
5. Other options I'm sure to forget about.
6. Buy a GI OCD and install LEDs.

...and dammit, I've tried really hard to not post any advertisements about my boards, and now I have. I really don't want to push them on anyone who doesn't want to buy or even read about them.

Nearly none, IIRC I had read somewhere that Stern Pinball had purchased exclusive rights to produce Star Trek themed pinball machines.

If there is anywhere I would not want incandescent bulbs its in the shields, I feel the heat from the incandescent getting trapped under the shields is one of the main reasons that these specific inserts end up with ghosting issues. For this reason, my game has LED's for the shields and nacelles as I actually prefer the traditional incandescent bulbs for this title.

I’ve really tried to make it clear that I love your product @herg.

Honestly, I think a machine with your boards and NoFlix are the best you can get.

Maybe one day I’ll have enough hobby income to play with the big boys

Another cool feature of the GI OCD is you don't need to use non-ghosting or non-flickering LEDs like NoFlix. The Pulse Width Modulated DC it uses to run the LEDs doen't produce any flickering even with the cheapest LEDs.

There were some suggestions here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-mixing-gi-ocd-and-kbop-mods-issue#post-2783358
basically; you'd want to bypass the OCD for the Hallmark KBOP.

One of these days; I'm going to "get around" to buying an OCD for my STNG... Just haven't been overwhelmed with a desire to join the crowd. I still like the incandescent look in many games (in GI).

Anybody put one of the CPR backglasses in their STTNG? I like the mirroring but I'm not sold on the artwork. Such as Jean Luc PiGorbachev. I'm hoping to hear from someone that has seen these in person before ordering.

http://www.classicplayfields.com/photo207.html

I’d love to know too...I just can’t seem to pull the trigger.

Understood, but my shield inserts are already heat damaged. Sure my machine is not a beauty, but still plays like a dream. There are already incandescents in there, and I'm not running it on location.

I'll toss a box into my next PBL order and try to come up with an answer for those of us who have (now) expensive pins and a limited budget....

Would it be a super-stupid idea to use incandescent bulbs in the inserts, coupled with a DC fan to move the heat away from the bulbs?
(DC fans used in computers).

Stupid?

I'd use 47s instead of 44s, no fan:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bulbs-44-vs-47#post-192574

Heat damage seems to be a greater concern on certain shapes of inserts or if there's a lot of heat/bulbs under them (like the shields)

I run 44's in most of my inserts and don't really worry too much since most of the inserts aren't on all the time like the shields and nacelles are, plus my machine isn't on that much, and I rarely have it on for more than an hour on any given day. Essentially it all depends on how you run your machine, if you like your having all your machines on even if they aren't being played (they were designed for this) then you may want to consider some cooling options if you plan on using incandescents

I do not have a logic probe .. I’ve got a multimeter, if that helps.

Is it possible the whit/purple wire could be to blame? Thats the wire i resoldered to fix the drop target, and there does appear to be a white/purple going into the trough board.

My favorite.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-ultimate-pinsound-mix

Still trying to figure this thing out. The optos are sending — I can see them light up strong with a cell phone camera. When we cover opto 3, all hell breaks loose and multiple rows all fire at once. Does that mean anything to anyone?

pezpunk Can you post a two pictures of your switch edge test screen, one with all the balls removed, and one with all the balls in the trough please?

pezpunk

Any luck on repairing your issue yet?

thanks for asking! i haven't gotten back to it yet, i was on a ski vacation sunday/monday and then i've been swamped with work since then. but i will take a video this weekend.

I hope Stern/Kapow make a Next Generation machine.

What they’re doing with Batman 66 would work great with 7 seasons of Next Generation.

Really would work with TOS. Shatner will approve and maybe do some voice overs if asked.

I would jump at that in a heartbeat too.

After seeing what can be done with so much material, I hope it’s somethinf Stern will look to do more of.

Pin_Guy here's a video. hope it helps. thanks for your assistance!

pezpunk

The first part is easy; the game is seeing balls in the trough and is trying to remove them; that is why the it keeps kicking a ball to the launcher; when in game the same is sort of true except the game also sees that there is a ball blocking switch 67 (trough up) this tells the software that the ball never made it into play, plus the program sees all your balls are in the trough...

So why is the ball trough photo transistor board not working and causing a ground short on Row 7 when 6 balls are in the trough?

This is a very odd indeed...but, all these problems point to a failure of your ball trough photo transistor board. A shorted D5 on this board would cause a ground short on Row 7 whenever it was pulled low, but this should only be when the opto is clear which would also be a closed switch 67. Normally opto switch 67 would be closed all the time, but yours isn't; your S67 doesn't close until you install a sixth ball in the trough, this makes no sense as the sixth trough ball is switch 61 and is on a different LM339 from switch 67.

In order to really see whats going on you are going to need an o'scope...maybe you have one?
I'm going to speculate that when your drop target switch wire broke, it came in contact with the solenoid voltage for a moment, this voltage would be sufficient to damage your LM339's on the trough board...the only thing I don't like is that this happening will usually take out U20 on you MPU.

I've included a couple images that show the normal operation of the LM339 on the opto board.

Unblocked Opto - Row is driven LOW while its column is active, this is why unblocked optos show as a closed switch.
Opto Clear (resized).png

Blocked OPTO - Row is driven HIGH while its column is active.
Opto Blocked (resized).png

If you would like to send me your trough board, I would be more than happy to take a look at it for you...Just PM me.

thank you! are you fairly confident that replacing this board would solve my problem?

pezpunk

Yes, I am fairly confident that replacing the board will fix your machine, I would be a little more confident if I knew for sure your column 6 drive was working even though it appears to be based on switch 68 working.

I'm more confident that your original board (assuming it's original) can be repaired, so my offer still stands to repair your board if you desire. While this repair technically would be cost prohibited over buying a new board, I'll do this repair for you as one STTNG owner to another so all you are paying for is the shipping cost.

More proof that Star Trek fans are one of the best people out there!

Hey guys, picking up a STTNG next weekend, as its one of my absolute favorite pins to play, so I'm pretty excited. I had one years ago, but I do have some questions/concerns,

I've talked with a few people and have noticed on other next gens I've played, it's a tough game to get 100%, including a previous one I had. What truth is there to this?

I remember the optos being a pain, and the diverter in the subway needing to be just right, or you can end up with premature games or added balls in play, losing track of balls, etc.

What are the results from long term owners, can you get it to stay 100% reliable for the long haul? What are some tips to getting it there if so, change out all the optos?
Thanks!

I've had my STTNG for over 4 years. I had a couple issues to work out when it arrived. Only issue in the last 4 years was a broken cannon arm. It hasn't been any more troublesome than any of my other 80-90s pins. It is one of them most complex games out there so there are lots of potential things to go wrong. I think it comes down to condition and the quality of maintenance it received over its life.

First of all ... welcome back!

This is a tough question to answer as it's very subjective as the skill level of the people working on it varies greatly; fortunately, you have already found this thread and should you run into issues with your game you cant resolve, its likely you will find the answers here.

I would definitely be concerned with both the subway diverters and the Borg diverter based on the age of the game, this would even hold true if you found a NIB machine...if these assemblies have not been disassembled, cleaned and rebuilt, the 25+ year old grease on them will be hardened and result in mechanisms that operate poorly. Taking the time to properly rebuilding these mechanisms should allow them to operate trouble free for decades.

Clean the diverter mechanisms. Just replace all the optos in the subway VUKs (4, 2, 2). You can get them cheap. Get new trough opto boards from Great Lakes Modular if you can. Check all your voltages at the test points on the power board in attract mode and while playing or doing tests. Test all the 5 large capacitors on the power board and the smaller capacitors. Test the 5 bridge rectifiers. Do the tie-back mod on the wire on the drop target coil. Rebuild all the flippers including new flipper bats. Rebuild the slingshot mechs and pop bumpers if they are weak. Go ahead and resolder all the solder joints on all the solenoids. Replace all the playfield rubbers. Check for cracks on the ramp plastics where the ball hits when entering. Either replace the ramps if cracked/broken or install metal ramp protectors. Install a set of plastics protectors under the plastics around the playfield. Install LEDs if you want. Some of the bulb holders (like for the shields) get loose solder joints, so you may have to clean and resolder them if the lights are flaky.

What is the easiest way to adjust the upper flipper so it is perfectly aligned?
I can make the shot, but not consistently, and would just want to make sure it is perfect.

if you find an angle that lets you make that shot consistently ... holy shit share that with the class. i bat about 20 percent on that ramp at best.

Ha. +1

+1. They are great. Here's the model numbers for STTNG:

Original Part: A-16927 - 7 Ball Trough LED PCB Assembly
Original Part: A-16926 - 7 Ball Trough Photo Transistor Assy.

From Great Lakes Modular:
1 - DCS-TBS - Widebody Ball Trough Board Set - $60 (price was from back in 2016)

Quick Question: Backbox lights(LEDs) will dim a little when flippers are activated.

Culprit?

(or is this normal?)

Thank you in advance, Voodoo Heroes of STTNG maintenance land.

Mine does the same thing, as have most of the older games I've had over the years. I'm guessing there is some capacitor somewhere that could use replacement. My driver board has been rebuilt.

Could anyone snap pictures of their left cannon home switch wiring under the playfield?

Also has anyone had trouble with their plunger launcher missing the top hole (the hole behind the single drop target)? Mine bounces off the metal backstop somehow and does not fall in the hole most of the time. Really annoying and I'm having a tough time telling why it's bouncing off.

Thanks for all the help so far! My STTNG is on its way to 100%.

I'm not sure where it's hitting the metal backstop, but one thing to check is that the plunged ball isn't hitting the habit trail above it that leads back to the right inlane. If the top habit trail is not aligned directly on top of the bottom one it will interfere with the ball and slow it down enough that it doesn't reach the hole.