Yes those games use the same MPU board - you just need to swap the game ROM

This will show you which MPU each game requires. They are compatible, just need proper ROMs...

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#WPC-89_.26_WPC-S

It‘s seriously several kinds of awesome. My favorite part is the new randomized Shuttle Simulation!!!

How did your team get the source code? Or did you use a decompiler?

Congratulations ingo!!

Thank you for your amazing work on this. The bug fixed play is night and day for the playing experience of this beloved game.

The level of detail in better understanding the game code is also amazing just to identify how many nuances and details were taken for for granted.

Thank you again. It's amazing!

speaking of proper game ROMs...
Exactly 29 years after the release of LX-7 - which came out on Feb. 17 1994 - I'm really proud – and a little surprised - to announce the release of something really cool:
[quoted image]

Any idea when and where this might be available in the purchased ROM world? I want this but don't have the ability to write my own ROM's

If you don't want to run the patching utility on your computer I found an online site where you can do it:

https://www.marcrobledo.com/RomPatcher.js/

[12:43:24 PM] Original file "trek_x7.rom" selected.
[12:43:25 PM] Applying patch, please wait... (don't panic!)
[12:43:25 PM] An error has occurred: xdelta3: target window checksum mismatch: XD3_INVALID_INPUT
(turned off checksum validation on my original lx7 rom)
[12:43:58 PM] Applying patch, please wait... (don't panic!)
[12:43:58 PM] Patch successfully applied!
(didn't work)

(downloaded lx7 from ipdb)
[12:46:48 PM] Original file "TREK_X7.ROM" selected.
[12:46:57 PM] Applying patch, please wait... (don't panic!)
[12:46:57 PM] An error has occurred: xdelta3: target window checksum mismatch: XD3_INVALID_INPUT
(turned off checksum validation)
[12:47:03 PM] Applying patch, please wait... (don't panic!)
[12:47:03 PM] Patch successfully applied!

Sorry, doesn't work. Had to turn off the checksum validation, rom is directly from ipdb. Resets ram in pinmame fine, but then on bootup goes into a boot loop.

I've tried quite a few of these online patchers.. I didn't find anything working as it should.

trek_x7.rom from ipdb is the correct file. It must be the special speech version from the link in the "how_to_create_LX8.pdf.

Don't turn off checksum validation.

it's an xdelta3 patch. not xdelta. you can also use:

apt get install xdelta3

if you are using Linux.

here are the md5 checksums of all files involved:

24b52ce325bc4f2706a95d5e241d3b15 trek_LX-8_AD41_BE08.rom
9d9cee575ace3f89e05f2631b3e300a1 trek_x7.rom
60dcd12c3f25b1b8f826f4d4098bcef6 trek_x8.xdelta

and you can apply the patch like this:

xdelta3 -d -s trek_x7.rom trek_x8.xdelta NEW_LX8.rom

But if you follow the pdf, everything should be working.

This one produces valid output, but it doesn't check the input files. So it's a bit dangerous.

Please use xdelta3 with Linux (like described above) or the DeltaPatcher.exe contained in the zip file (there is also a link where you can find the original source of that file). you might end up with a corrupted file otherwise.

edit: this is the md5 of the resulting LX8: 24b52ce325bc4f2706a95d5e241d3b15

I used the version of xdelta that was in your zip file.

And the trek_x7.rom from the link? I did this 3 times today - zero problems.

trek_x7.rom from Special Speech sttng_x7.zip on ipdb.org (md5: 79d9cee575ace3f89e05f2631b3e300a1)

with the trek_x8.xdelta from the zip (md5 should be: 60dcd12c3f25b1b8f826f4d4098bcef6)

gives you an error with the DeltaPatcher.exe from within the zip?

I can confirm the patch process functions as documented on my Windows 11 Home Edition PC.

It's not clear from ipdb's site that the special sound roms also included the game rom, so I was using the regular lx7 rom that was posted. Working now.

Looking forward to the tech info as well (well.... honestly, probably looking forward to that more than the upgrade itself. Hopefully a T2-8.3-esque multipage PDF?)

great you've got it working now.

looks like Averell has set a new standard here .... it's currently around 50 pages and counting...

Patcher worked fine for me on Win10 x64 bit running as a sandboxie app.
Haven't tested the rom yet. does anyone remember which EPROM the game needs? 27C010 ?

Parts list claims :
2137 ...4 5343-12881-00 e prom 27c040 4meg 120nsec 1

this is amazing news! and i would love to buy a beer or two to the guy/guys that made the code.
And also, if someone can do one for me in europe i can pay for it ( plus the rom and the shipping of course )

Yeah, the C010 is too small.. needs to be 512K (27C4001 / 27C040) AFAIK.

Size of patched file on disk is 512kb.
27C010 is a 128kx8 chip and has the same pinout but as you stated; won't fit 512kb.

And here I just bought a new weebly MPU with an LX7 rom! For those of us who don't have rom burners, is there somewhere we can purchase an LX8 rom to just swap in?

I’m assuming “special speech” and “silly speech” are referring to the same thing?

I'd recommend picking up a GQ-4x4 USB programmer.. quite cheap ~~$100, and has served me well for all of my SS machines, and this will ensure you can upgrade for any subsequent patches and so forth.

Alternately, I'd reach out to the local pinball clubs.. I'm sure there is always someone willing to do it, usually the ask is that the person can replace the part (rom) for the person helping out...

Yes. And as mentioned somewhere hidden inside the manual, it's optional. You don't need the Special Speech audio ROMs.

And if you have them installed, you can enable and completely disable (<- this is new) them via adjustment "A.2 28 Special Speech".

I used a 27C4001 and it work fine. Easy with the Superpro 280u programmer (previously hacked to run on 64bit windows).

I had some weirdness when first upgrading to LX8. Had infinite ball ones. eventually; I took out all the balls via clear balls menu and put them in one by one while the game was on and it "fixed" itself.

Overall; no real change to my game play. The "no flippers" during ball selections feels weird by overall a welcome change to keep flipper usage down.
I feel like there is some "lag" somewhere I can quite place. A couple of times I pulled the trigger and either didn't register the trigger pull or was delayed by 500-1000ms. I also had some weirdness around "start game".

Hopefully; this doesn't translate to poor convention operation as the game is going to be present TPF'23 with these LX-8 roms. Smart me would take LX-7 "just in case".

We've tested on ~10 machines and there where one or two reports of lag, but nothing that could be reproduced by the others... But something you might want to try: take out the batteries for a few seconds... it's mentioned in Chapter 4 Troubleshooting.

I've switched between LX-7 and LX-8 a few times, but haven't seen any issues.

If you are speaking of "right flipper starts game" and "trigger doesn't work" - that happens also when you switch back to LX-7 or LX-5, so it seems that's normal after a ROM change. Once you have pulled the trigger, the next game should be fine.

Wait until you are used to it and go back to LX-7 ... that feels really weird then. And actually we didn't want to change your game play, it should still be LX-7. But if you like to, you can now use Launch-A-Probe and Skill Shot, they might give you an extra ball... you could set Ferengi MB to 90s... or the Return To Duty to 30s... Holodeck is more interesting and the NZ Lock is definitely a nice thing... but you are right... it's actually still STTNG... =)

I didn't try pulling batteries. Good tip before I get too many high scores. I did see "restore factory reset" so thought that was good enough.

Meaning I pushed the start button and nothing happened. I actually got "locating balls" on the second game after installing new rom. This is what prompted me to clear the balls and then re-add them 1 by 1.

I <3 my STNG. I wouldn't have changed the roms because I acutally like LX-7 with ghost patch. But I figured; when it rome... install the latest.

No reports of that until now... and we've played a lot... maybe it was just the ROM change.

we love our STTNGs too =)... that's why we've fixed LX-7. And all the tweaks, can be disabled. But maybe you should try to put your game play aside, forget all you know about how to play STTNG, use Launch-A-Probe, hit the NZ often and enjoy crashing against walls in the shuttle simulation... you may actually like it.

Going to try to get some lx8 in stream... Now. Lol

https://www.twitch.tv/kojis92

Can anyone burn me a rom?

More than happy to pay for it. Pls DM me.

Thx!

This is great work and complete notes too, in and working fine (with NV Ram too), thank you!

Well Done! Watched you for an hour! lol

Hi i can provide this rom . Way to go Ingo. One of the all time greats is greater.

Same here. I need one also.

I have a handful of blank 27C4001 eproms. DM

Can anyone post photos of the trough board connectors on their STTNG. On mine, the LED PCB connector is chewed up pretty bad and the photo transistor PCB connector has been reconstructed, but on both connectors the +12V and ground wires don't match the manual.

Upgrade to something new which you will use every single game.
This works fantastic for $59 for the SET

a-17982_a-17981_2 (resized).jpg

https://www.pinballlife.com/7-opto-trough-board-set-for-williamsbally-widebody-pinball-machines.html

+10 on the home pin set. Swap and go. Through problems no more

Yes, the pin came with new homepin boards, its the connectors that are suspect.

Understand the need. I am away at the moment. I can help please with photos after the 27th if you do not get any in the meantime.

Cheers

You can post images of your wiring as well. The wiring in the manual is correct.

sttng_ball_trough_wiring.jpg

Trying to patch the LX-8 file and followed the pdf instructions after first downloading the LX-7 from IPDB.

Get this error : An error has occurred: xdelta3: target window checksum mismatch: XD3_INVALID_INPUT

And does someone know what is version LG-7 ? (IPDB)

Anyone ?

You need to download the file from the link inside the pdf:

"1. Download sttng_x7.zip from here: https://www.ipdb.org/files/2357/sttng_x7.zip"

there's a "trek_x7.rom" inside. That's the file you want to patch.

Not sure if I would need to replace speech and game roms?
If so who is selling both?

Hi this new INgo rom is now available in my pinside store. Pinballrom. It is a one stop shop for all your rom/chip needs. Feel free to message me with any questions.
Thanks
Dave Astill

What is the readme/updates for the new rom?

ingo 333 has made an amazing booklet. It has many changes, Too many to list.

https://drive.proton.me/urls/WZV79221ZC#SFQiTtAwWYm2

This is what I have, likely the cause of my switch issues

6010D284-E2C2-48E1-8252-0E536EEB4289.jpeg

7A8BB1F1-1991-4C2E-ADD9-003A016570ED.jpeg

For those that don't want to pay Canada to USA shipping; direct message me.