(Topic ID: 47092)

St:tng owners welcome aboard the uss enterprise

By Pinballgeek

9 years ago


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#8101 13 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I still love Inner Light and actually stop what I'm doing and watch it if I'm channel surfing and it's on (BBC America runs a lot of STTNG back to back). That, and Darmok.
"I'm not crying, you are!"

Shaka, when the walls fell.

#8102 13 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I still love Inner Light and actually stop what I'm doing and watch it if I'm channel surfing and it's on (BBC America runs a lot of STTNG back to back). That, and Darmok.
"I'm not crying, you are!"

My wife and I make lots of jokes at Darmok's expense. "Shakah, when the walls fell"

My fave is when we were both kinda drunk and she asked "How the hell would someone ask to see a doctor when speaking through metaphor?"

My response:
Darmok on the ladder;
Darmok on his head;
Darmok needs a doctor;
Or Darmok will be dead!

You kinda had to be there I think but we reminisce this one a lot.

#8103 13 days ago

You know you've met your life match when you can share jokes like that

I keep cracking Big Lebowski jokes, and the civilians in the house look at me like I am crazy. Playing the long game...it will all make sense to them when my TBL gets here next year

#8104 13 days ago

Hi! I just purchased a ST:TNG pinball machine and this is my FIRST pinball machine. Unfortunately it has a problem preventing me from playing. As soon as I turn on the machine (switch at the bottom):

- all the balls get kicked out one by one
- there is a loud thumping noise that repeats continuously

Video of the issue - https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5z1d432ng6rv5z/Video%202022-09-20%2C%205%2043%2040%20PM.mov?dl=0

If the coin door is open before I turn on the machine the above two don't happen until I try and start the game.

From speaking with someone more knowledgeable than me, they mentioned as a first step I should inspect the connectors in the backbox and make sure all the connectors are plugged in securely, which they are. However, there is one black wire just sticking out not plugged into anything. It's near J118 and this connector is bent downwards making me think the wire got snagged somewhere and pulled the connector its socket's prongs down before getting unattached completely. Image attached.

From looking at J118 in the manual I believe the wire is supposed to connect to J118-3 (J118-3 Black, ground, to playfield boards). Right now only a gray wire is attached to J118. Does that sound right to you all? If, so what are the chances this would solve the issue I'm seeing? I should mention my knowledge in electronics is non-existing.

image (resized).jpg

#8105 13 days ago

GI is 5 volts and drives the Hallmarks just fine. Hookup to any
5volt GI bulb you like. I tested out that the voltage is indeed about
5 volts for the Hallmarks by hooking up to 1.5volt batteries in
series. 1.5volts = no work. 3.0volts = no work. 4.5volts =
Works! I supposed I could have calculated or measured the voltage
applied to it on a string of christmas lights or by checking the rated
voltage of christmas bulbs, etc., but it was more fun to conduct a
hands on experiment.

This was on Google groups not sure if it helps.

#8106 13 days ago
Quoted from Jeff1960:

GI is 5 volts and drives the Hallmarks just fine. Hookup to any
5volt GI bulb you like. I tested out that the voltage is indeed about
5 volts for the Hallmarks by hooking up to 1.5volt batteries in
series. 1.5volts = no work. 3.0volts = no work. 4.5volts =
Works! I supposed I could have calculated or measured the voltage
applied to it on a string of christmas lights or by checking the rated
voltage of christmas bulbs, etc., but it was more fun to conduct a
hands on experiment.
This was on Google groups not sure if it helps.

Thank you, using the pinwiki/google groups stuff and John's KBOP conversion kit, I've actually successfully (and happily) converted the older Klingon BOP, Romulan Warbird, and Enterprise D to work with the machine. I also have a plasma disk wired to PF power in place of batteries (works great).

The hassle is the more modern battery operated Hallmark ornaments that don't do anything unless you press a button (regardless of how it's powered). To John's point, it may be time to sacrifice an ornament to crack it open, and figure out how to crack one open in a reversible way, rewire the insides to bypass the button, then put it back together. If I figure something out, I'll be sure to document and share here.

#8107 13 days ago
Quoted from Jeff1960:

GI is 5 volts and drives the Hallmarks just fine. Hookup to any
5volt GI bulb you like. I tested out that the voltage is indeed about

Categorically horrible advise.
There are many documented instances where people melted ships using this advice

A currently limiting resistance of at least 6.8 ohms is required. Look at rgp.

"Modern" ortdments the op was talking about won't work at all because the. Need a button press.

ray-dude,
Look over my uss Kevin install doc. I'd be surprised if the little circuit board in the ship isn't similar

#8108 13 days ago

Key post from 3 years ago from Pinguy about the older Romulan model

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/52#post-4753118

#8109 12 days ago
Quoted from redpotion:

Hi! I just purchased a ST:TNG pinball machine and this is my FIRST pinball machine. Unfortunately it has a problem preventing me from playing. As soon as I turn on the machine (switch at the bottom):
- all the balls get kicked out one by one
- there is a loud thumping noise that repeats continuously
Video of the issue - https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5z1d432ng6rv5z/Video%202022-09-20%2C%205%2043%2040%20PM.mov?dl=0
If the coin door is open before I turn on the machine the above two don't happen until I try and start the game.
From speaking with someone more knowledgeable than me, they mentioned as a first step I should inspect the connectors in the backbox and make sure all the connectors are plugged in securely, which they are. However, there is one black wire just sticking out not plugged into anything. It's near J118 and this connector is bent downwards making me think the wire got snagged somewhere and pulled the connector its socket's prongs down before getting unattached completely. Image attached.
From looking at J118 in the manual I believe the wire is supposed to connect to J118-3 (J118-3 Black, ground, to playfield boards). Right now only a gray wire is attached to J118. Does that sound right to you all? If, so what are the chances this would solve the issue I'm seeing? I should mention my knowledge in electronics is non-existing.
[quoted image]

Congrats on your first pin (it won't be your last as they have a habit of multiplying) and also on a great job in identifying the issue.

When balls are continuously launched either the diverters in the subway aren't working and/or the opto switches at the VUKs or trough aren't working. Now J118 provides 12V unregulated power to the opto PCBs that the opto switches hang off, with J118-2 Grey-Yellow being 12V and J118-3 Black being Ground. Given that the black ground wire has come off the opto switches won't be functioning and the machine cannot determine the true state. Turn the machine off and try reattaching the ground wire to J118-3, note that it's best to use a proper IDC punch tool (eg https://www.pinball.co.uk/tools/molex-idc-tool-0-1/ and https://www.pinball.co.uk/tools/molex-idc-tool-0-156/ these are the 2 sizes used in the machine)

FYI https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC is also a great reference and helps walk you through various issues and how to troubleshoot.

Let us know know how you get on

#8110 12 days ago
Quoted from redpotion:

Hi! I just purchased a ST:TNG pinball machine and this is my FIRST pinball machine. Unfortunately it has a problem preventing me from playing. As soon as I turn on the machine (switch at the bottom):
- all the balls get kicked out one by one
- there is a loud thumping noise that repeats continuously
Video of the issue - https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5z1d432ng6rv5z/Video%202022-09-20%2C%205%2043%2040%20PM.mov?dl=0
If the coin door is open before I turn on the machine the above two don't happen until I try and start the game.
From speaking with someone more knowledgeable than me, they mentioned as a first step I should inspect the connectors in the backbox and make sure all the connectors are plugged in securely, which they are. However, there is one black wire just sticking out not plugged into anything. It's near J118 and this connector is bent downwards making me think the wire got snagged somewhere and pulled the connector its socket's prongs down before getting unattached completely. Image attached.
From looking at J118 in the manual I believe the wire is supposed to connect to J118-3 (J118-3 Black, ground, to playfield boards). Right now only a gray wire is attached to J118. Does that sound right to you all? If, so what are the chances this would solve the issue I'm seeing? I should mention my knowledge in electronics is non-existing.
[quoted image]

I know you are excited to play your machine. I certainly would suggest technically going through your machine FIRST. (why?) It's nearly 30 years old. And this Blog is fantastic to read, yes, all 162 pages which will answer every question you have and more. The TIE BACK MOD is a must, if it's not already done on your machine. Look for burned up connectors in the backbox. You've got a worthy and great machine to now care for, and immediately playing it will be frustrating and possibly damaging unless checking it over first.

#8111 12 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Congrats on your first pin (it won't be your last as they have a habit of multiplying) and also on a great job in identifying the issue.
When balls are continuously launched either the diverters in the subway aren't working and/or the opto switches at the VUKs or trough aren't working. Now J118 provides 12V unregulated power to the opto PCBs that the opto switches hang off, with J118-2 Grey-Yellow being 12V and J118-3 Black being Ground. Given that the black ground wire has come off the opto switches won't be functioning and the machine cannot determine the true state. Turn the machine off and try reattaching the ground wire to J118-3, note that it's best to use a proper IDC punch tool (eg https://www.pinball.co.uk/tools/molex-idc-tool-0-1/ and https://www.pinball.co.uk/tools/molex-idc-tool-0-156/ these are the 2 sizes used in the machine)
FYI https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC is also a great reference and helps walk you through various issues and how to troubleshoot.
Let us know know how you get on

Thanks for the quick and detailed response! Without knowing the name of the tool I needed I had a rough time searching for it so I very much appreciate the links. Just ordered them, so will let you know how everything turns out.

Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

I know you are excited to play your machine. I certainly would suggest technically going through your machine FIRST. (why?) It's nearly 30 years old. And this Blog is fantastic to read, yes, all 162 pages which will answer every question you have and more. The TIE BACK MOD is a must, if it's not already done on your machine. Look for burned up connectors in the backbox. You've got a worthy and great machine to now care for, and immediately playing it will be frustrating and possibly damaging unless checking it over first.

Well said! Unfortunately it looks like the TIE BACK MOD wasn't done and the machine is still using the AA batteries. Looks like a bit more work before I can play. From what I gather though all the work is worth it in the end.

#8112 12 days ago
Quoted from redpotion:

Thanks for the quick and detailed response! Without knowing the name of the tool I needed I had a rough time searching for it so I very much appreciate the links. Just ordered them, so will let you know how everything turns out.

Well said! Unfortunately it looks like the TIE BACK MOD wasn't done and the machine is still using the AA batteries. Looks like a bit more work before I can play. From what I gather though all the work is worth it in the end.

There is no reason why you can't start putting some games through your machine (once you've reconnected the 12V ground wire). On the AA batteries, immediately swap them out for some new ones (preferably lithium as they are not prone to leaking like alkaline batteries), down the track you can decide whether you want to move the batteries to a remote holder (if not already done) or replace the battery with either a coin style battery or NVRAM. As for the tieback mod, while this is good practice and recommended, if you double check the solder connection of the existing tieback wire (the thinner purple-green wire) on the drop target, there no reason why you can't power on your machine to test it and even put some games on it. The issue is that solder connections on coils fatigue over time especially due to the vibrations from the coil/plunger firing and those wires can come off, typically with most coil wires this doesn't cause an issue (unless the 50V wire touches some else) however if the tieback wire comes off on a STTNG then it'll damage the 8 driver board. So if your game doesn't have the tieback mod, just ensure for the time being that the existing factory installed tieback wire is solidly connected.

#8113 11 days ago
Quoted from redpotion:

Thanks for the quick and detailed response! Without knowing the name of the tool I needed I had a rough time searching for it so I very much appreciate the links. Just ordered them, so will let you know how everything turns out.

Well said! Unfortunately it looks like the TIE BACK MOD wasn't done and the machine is still using the AA batteries. Looks like a bit more work before I can play. From what I gather though all the work is worth it in the end.

There are several solutions for the Tie Back, I did them all after burning up the mini 8 driver board and locking on a subway coil (burned up). Certainly looking closely through the machine (inch by inch with a bright light) will allow you to look for burned up connectors, etc. Under the playfield, look for hanging loose wires or wires no longer attached to a nearby location.

Look for things which are broken, possibly missing (loose parts in the bottom of the cabinet). You will find several people in past blogs detail their restoration process. Yes, get those batteries OFF the board. If it doesn't have leds, get the old bulbs out. They draw power and create heat. Remove and examine each fuse for correct size. Some will fall apart as they are removed. And check for grounding straps, there should be one from the backbox down to the inside of the cabinet. Make sure you've got a grounded plug on the machine. Also the machine should have LX-7 firmware, viewable upon power up.

#8114 11 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

There is no reason why you can't start putting some games through your machine (once you've reconnected the 12V ground wire). On the AA batteries, immediately swap them out for some new ones (preferably lithium as they are not prone to leaking like alkaline batteries), down the track you can decide whether you want to move the batteries to a remote holder (if not already done) or replace the battery with either a coin style battery or NVRAM. As for the tieback mod, while this is good practice and recommended, if you double check the solder connection of the existing tieback wire (the thinner purple-green wire) on the drop target, there no reason why you can't power on your machine to test it and even put some games on it. The issue is that solder connections on coils fatigue over time especially due to the vibrations from the coil/plunger firing and those wires can come off, typically with most coil wires this doesn't cause an issue (unless the 50V wire touches some else) however if the tieback wire comes off on a STTNG then it'll damage the 8 driver board. So if your game doesn't have the tieback mod, just ensure for the time being that the existing factory installed tieback wire is solidly connected.

Just grabbed some lithium batteries to hold me over until I'm ready to go with one of the other solutions. Out of curiosity which of those options did you go with? Just checked and thankfully the solder connections look good! I may be able to playtest sooner than I thought

Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

There are several solutions for the Tie Back, I did them all after burning up the mini 8 driver board and locking on a subway coil (burned up). Certainly looking closely through the machine (inch by inch with a bright light) will allow you to look for burned up connectors, etc. Under the playfield, look for hanging loose wires or wires no longer attached to a nearby location.

Look for things which are broken, possibly missing (loose parts in the bottom of the cabinet). You will find several people in past blogs detail their restoration process. Yes, get those batteries OFF the board. If it doesn't have leds, get the old bulbs out. They draw power and create heat. Remove and examine each fuse for correct size. Some will fall apart as they are removed. And check for grounding straps, there should be one from the backbox down to the inside of the cabinet. Make sure you've got a grounded plug on the machine. Also the machine should have LX-7 firmware, viewable upon power up.

Definitely going to have one of the experienced pinball techs local to me help with the tie-back. It looks easy enough, but given the importance of it I'd like that extra bit of insurance. Checked under the playfield and everything looks good save for a broken bulb at the bottom the cabinet. Quick question, when I pull out the playfield and lift it up can it go fully vertical and rest on the backbox? None of the bulbs are LEDs, so I'm going to have to replace them all. Actually looking forward to that. Got the grounded plug, but just realized I forgot to check for grounded straps. Will also need to check for LX-7 when I'm ready to power up again.

As always, thank you both for your responses!

#8115 10 days ago

An alternative implementation for the tie back modification can be seen @ https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/13#post-6637329 for those interested in other options.

#8116 10 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

To check the diverters are working correctly empty all the balls, turn the game off, put all the balls back in (so that they're all in the trough), then turn the game on - the game should automatically plunge 3 balls, placing a ball at each to VUKs (ie VUK that feeds the left inlane, the right and left cannon VUKs). If it cannot divert a ball correctly and it ends up at the left inlane VUK, the ball will be kicked out and another ball plunged.

I finally had the time/motivation to get back in here. The problem is definitely the top diverter. It fires and ends up holding the ball and then releasing it to the left VUK instead of having it roll to the right cannon. I've adjusted the arm all kinds of ways, though, and it still does this. This seems like such a simple thing and it's driving me bonkers. Any tips on aligning the arm?

(What's also frustrating is that it worked great for about five games after I first took out and cleaned the subway and diverters. I had a similar problem with the borg ship diverter but solved that one with a single adjustment.)

Added 11 days ago:

I've continued messing with it with no success. Looked at photos I took before I broke it down, and have it in the same place as far as I can tell. If I manually load a ball I to the right upkicker, it loads fine into the left cannon. Game plays fine with probes and such... once. As soon as it's time for it to send a ball to the right again, it fails. So switches and everything else seems fine. It's just something about this diverter that I can't figure out!

I can hear it firing, it works in test, and I even stuck my phone underneath to verify it was firing correctly.

Ugh. Hopefully I'm just doing something stupid. Any thoughts?

#8117 10 days ago
Quoted from redpotion:

Just grabbed some lithium batteries to hold me over until I'm ready to go with one of the other solutions. Out of curiosity which of those options did you go with? Just checked and thankfully the solder connections look good! I may be able to playtest sooner than I thought

Definitely going to have one of the experienced pinball techs local to me help with the tie-back. It looks easy enough, but given the importance of it I'd like that extra bit of insurance. Checked under the playfield and everything looks good save for a broken bulb at the bottom the cabinet. Quick question, when I pull out the playfield and lift it up can it go fully vertical and rest on the backbox? None of the bulbs are LEDs, so I'm going to have to replace them all. Actually looking forward to that. Got the grounded plug, but just realized I forgot to check for grounded straps. Will also need to check for LX-7 when I'm ready to power up again.
As always, thank you both for your responses!

I upgraded my CPU board to something which doesn't need batteries. That was a "nice to have". Typically, the board which get damaged in these machines is the Power Driver Board, big board on the right. Heat burns up the connectors and other parts. You have a worthwhile machine, so take your time. Granted, it's one of the most complex machines out there, and a challenge for anyone, let alone first time pinball machine owners.

Something to consider. Look for problems mechanically first, before wondering why the game is running weird. It doesn't matter if the guy who sold it to you says it was "shopped out". I work on dozens of machines and 90 percent of them only get bulbs and rubbers replaced, sadly.

So the more important issues rarely get addressed. Your machine has been on a route somewhere for years, most likely, and has a history of mega use. That is why we RESTORE these valuable machines, instead of just FIX them.

DSC02889 (resized).JPG
#8118 10 days ago
Quoted from redpotion:

Just grabbed some lithium batteries to hold me over until I'm ready to go with one of the other solutions. Out of curiosity which of those options did you go with? Just checked and thankfully the solder connections look good! I may be able to playtest sooner than I thought

Definitely going to have one of the experienced pinball techs local to me help with the tie-back. It looks easy enough, but given the importance of it I'd like that extra bit of insurance. Checked under the playfield and everything looks good save for a broken bulb at the bottom the cabinet. Quick question, when I pull out the playfield and lift it up can it go fully vertical and rest on the backbox? None of the bulbs are LEDs, so I'm going to have to replace them all. Actually looking forward to that. Got the grounded plug, but just realized I forgot to check for grounded straps. Will also need to check for LX-7 when I'm ready to power up again.
As always, thank you both for your responses!

Some of my games have remote battery holders (this was how they were when I bought them), while others are their original design (ie on the CPU board). Running lithium batteries I'm less concerned about leakage and I use Pinside to track when I last replaced the batteries on each of my games.

Grab one of DumbAss tieback boards (posted above), as this is a plug & play solution.

In regards to lifting the PF, yes after pulling it forward each side will lock allowing you to fully raise the PF (slightly past vertical) where it will sit quite happily such that you can work on it.

To check the ROM version, it'll come up when you power on the game and also when you first go into the service menu (using the diagnostic switches on the coin door).

#8119 10 days ago
Quoted from goldgrae:

I finally had the time/motivation to get back in here. The problem is definitely the top diverter. It fires and ends up holding the ball and then releasing it to the left VUK instead of having it roll to the right cannon. I've adjusted the arm all kinds of ways, though, and it still does this. This seems like such a simple thing and it's driving me bonkers. Any tips on aligning the arm?
(What's also frustrating is that it worked great for about five games after I first took out and cleaned the subway and diverters. I had a similar problem with the borg ship diverter but solved that one with a single adjustment.)

Added today: I've continued messing with it with no success. Looked at photos I took before I broke it down, and have it in the same place as far as I can tell. If I manually load a ball I to the right upkicker, it loads fine into the left cannon. Game plays fine with probes and such... once. As soon as it's time for it to send a ball to the right again, it fails. So switches and everything else seems fine. It's just something about this diverter that I can't figure out!
I can hear it firing, it works in test, and I even stuck my phone underneath to verify it was firing correctly.
Ugh. Hopefully I'm just doing something stupid. Any thoughts?

I haven't worked on the diverters, but suggest you post some pics as somebody might notice something amiss or out of alignment. If you lift the PF right up and go into solenoid test mode, you'll be able to watch it firing - even take a video of it (you'll need to load it up on Youtube and then post the link here for people to view).

#8120 10 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Some of my games have remote battery holders (this was how they were when I bought them), while others are their original design (ie on the CPU board). Running lithium batteries I'm less concerned about leakage and I use Pinside to track when I last replaced the batteries on each of my games.
Grab one of DumbAss tieback boards (posted above), as this is a plug & play solution.
In regards to lifting the PF, yes after pulling it forward each side will lock allowing you to fully raise the PF (slightly past vertical) where it will sit quite happily such that you can work on it.
To check the ROM version, it'll come up when you power on the game and also when you first go into the service menu (using the diagnostic switches on the coin door).

If you have to use AA batteries then the only ones I would use are teh lithium versions. They last for a long time and I haven't heard of any of those leaking yet. I have them in a couple machines. Others like my own STTNG the battery holder was removed, I unsoldered the SRAM, put in a socket, and installed an NVRAM chip. On games where you don't care about the clock then the NVRAM is a great option.

#8121 10 days ago

Okay, I got it working.

But not in a way I expected.

I adjusted that arm so many different ways. Checked and double checked against YouTube videos. Etc.

And then it occurred to me that the new balls I put in a few weeks back had been acting funky. I had chalked it up to more spin with new rubbers, new balls, cleaned field, etc.

But I thought, maybe there's a magnetic thing going on? After all, the coil for that diverter is right underneath the subway, and it's basically an electromagnet?

So I changed out the balls. And it works now.

Maybe it's just gremlins, or a fluke. But the engines are back online, captains.

#8122 9 days ago

If the balls are magnetized they will stick together in the ball trough sometimes. This causes all kinds of hard to diagnose issues with the machine.

#8123 9 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Postal:

If the balls are magnetized they will stick together in the ball trough sometimes. This causes all kinds of hard to diagnose issues with the machine.

Another issue with balls not dropping down, are divits. Divits are like "low" spots in the ball trough where the ball has sat for years. The metal dips in these locations and the ball will "hang" there, unless to jolt the machine to make them move. An trough insert is sold to eliminate this problem, however they are JUNK!! The new ball trough design eliminates the issue completely, and also have a ball lock. The ball lock holds the balls in place when raising the playfield. Hope this idea helps...
DSC02968 (resized).JPG

#8124 9 days ago

Haven't had any problems with the trough or loading the launcher. But when raising the playfield you'd still need to remove the balls because of the ones stored on the playfield, or else you'll still have those crash to the back of the subway. No?

#8125 9 days ago
Quoted from goldgrae:

Haven't had any problems with the trough or loading the launcher. But when raising the playfield you'd still need to remove the balls because of the ones stored on the playfield, or else you'll still have those crash to the back of the subway. No?

Yep that’s exactly what happens. I’ve seen a few STTNG’s with cracked/broken subways that have most likely been caused by the PF being raised while the balls were still in the subway.

#8126 9 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Yep that’s exactly what happens. I’ve seen a few STTNG’s with cracked/broken subways that have most likely been caused by the PF being raised while the balls were still in the subway.

Well that's good to know. But how do you get all the balls out of the subway?

#8127 9 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Well that's good to know. But how do you get all the balls out of the subway?

Go into the game's setup, select TESTS, select the last test CLR OUT BALLS, close the coin door, and catch all 6 balls as they're ejected out onto the playfield.

#8128 8 days ago

Pinwiki shows STTNG power driver board as an A-12697-1. The manual also specifies A-12697-1. However, I see many other references that show an A-12697-3 used, and the one currently in my game that I need to replace is an A-12697-3 out of a Popeye.

I also see on Pinwiki that the earlier TZ's originally came with the -1 board and switched to -3, and also that a coindoor interlock switch was introduced. Was this the reason for the PD board change? My STTNG is a reimport from Germany and has a coindoor switch that's simpler than the usual American switch (fewer terminals & wires), if that makes a difference.

I need a new PD board for my game but now I'm completely confused as to whether to get the -1 or the -3. What are the differences between these two boards? Any help is appreciated.

Edit: Was also just reading that since STTNG was such a overly complicated game, Williams used parts on boards to control things that weren't normally controlled by those boards because they just ran out of room on the correct boards, could that have something to do with it? Flipper components on PDB may have controlled something not flipper-related?

#8129 8 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Pinwiki shows STTNG power driver board as an A-12697-1. The manual also specifies A-12697-1. However, I see many other references that show an A-12697-3 used, and the one currently in my game that I need to replace is an A-12697-3 out of a Popeye.
I also see on Pinwiki that the earlier TZ's originally came with the -1 board and switched to -3, and also that a coindoor interlock switch was introduced. Was this the reason for the PD board change? My STTNG is a reimport from Germany and has a coindoor switch that's simpler than the usual American switch (fewer terminals & wires), if that makes a difference.
I need a new PD board for my game but now I'm completely confused as to whether to get the -1 or the -3. What are the differences between these two boards? Any help is appreciated.
Edit: Was also just reading that since STTNG was such a overly complicated game, Williams used parts on boards to control things that weren't normally controlled by those boards because they just ran out of room on the correct boards, could that have something to do with it? Flipper components on PDB may have controlled something not flipper-related?

The mini-8 driver board handles the extra tasks the main board didn't have room to handle. Has nothing to do with the flipper board. Overly complicated? The machine has a lot of features for sure. The two eddie sensors add to the complexity, where other switches would have worked.

If you are going to replace a Power Driver Board, this is the way to go. Love mine
Part Number WDB089

Williams / Bally WPC89/WPC89-S Driver Board

wpfe72f2ff_05_06 (resized).jpg
#8130 8 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Pinwiki shows STTNG power driver board as an A-12697-1. The manual also specifies A-12697-1. However, I see many other references that show an A-12697-3 used, and the one currently in my game that I need to replace is an A-12697-3 out of a Popeye.
I also see on Pinwiki that the earlier TZ's originally came with the -1 board and switched to -3, and also that a coindoor interlock switch was introduced. Was this the reason for the PD board change? My STTNG is a reimport from Germany and has a coindoor switch that's simpler than the usual American switch (fewer terminals & wires), if that makes a difference.
I need a new PD board for my game but now I'm completely confused as to whether to get the -1 or the -3. What are the differences between these two boards? Any help is appreciated.
Edit: Was also just reading that since STTNG was such a overly complicated game, Williams used parts on boards to control things that weren't normally controlled by those boards because they just ran out of room on the correct boards, could that have something to do with it? Flipper components on PDB may have controlled something not flipper-related?

You should be able to use either power driver board. The -1 should have the extra relay populated that is needed for earlier games and can work in just about any WPC89 game. The -3 was for later games with the flipper board which didn’t use or need the relay. Those only will work in the later games. I rebuilt a -3 for my STTNG and run that.

#8131 8 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Pinwiki shows STTNG power driver board as an A-12697-1. The manual also specifies A-12697-1. However, I see many other references that show an A-12697-3 used, and the one currently in my game that I need to replace is an A-12697-3 out of a Popeye.
I also see on Pinwiki that the earlier TZ's originally came with the -1 board and switched to -3, and also that a coindoor interlock switch was introduced. Was this the reason for the PD board change? My STTNG is a reimport from Germany and has a coindoor switch that's simpler than the usual American switch (fewer terminals & wires), if that makes a difference.
I need a new PD board for my game but now I'm completely confused as to whether to get the -1 or the -3. What are the differences between these two boards? Any help is appreciated.
Edit: Was also just reading that since STTNG was such a overly complicated game, Williams used parts on boards to control things that weren't normally controlled by those boards because they just ran out of room on the correct boards, could that have something to do with it? Flipper components on PDB may have controlled something not flipper-related?

The -1 PD board was predominantly used in the pre-fliptronics games (eg T2) as they include the flipper electronics and relay. With the introduction of the fliptronics board the flipper circuitry on the power driver board was not longer used and eventually removed in the -3 version of the board. So a -1 version board can be used in both pre-fliptronics & fliptronics games but a -3 board can’t be used in a pre-fliptronics machine. What’s wrong with the existing board (I prefer to get the original WMS board repaired rather than replace with new but that’s just me)?

The coin door interlock switch was introduced to disable the high power circuits (20v flasher and 50v coils, including flippers) when the coin door was opened. This switch was in addition to the memory lockout switch. Post a pic of you coin door switches (not the service diag switches).

While STTNG didn’t use any flipper circuits for alternative uses, other games such as IJ did (in addition to using the 8 driver board).

#8132 8 days ago

Some detailed information about the STTNG Pinball Borg Ship. Nice ideas about painting too. Back Alley Creations does amazing paint work, if you want to customize your ship.
https://backalleycreations.com/.../borg-ship-and-cannons...

133653961_880194772754865_5142049075622416439_n (resized).jpg3 (resized).PNG4 (resized).PNG
#8133 8 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

What’s wrong with the existing board (I prefer to get the original WMS board repaired rather than replace with new but that’s just me)?

It's a train wreck. Toasted connectors, numerous burned traces replaced by jumpers on the back, a replaced bridge rectifier jumpered to a capacitor for whatever reason, several test points were wired to a second power supply out of a computer for some reason, several other parts replaced and all of the solder work done very shoddily. I was considering sending it to Chris Hibler but honestly, I'd feel better just starting over with a new board. As long as I know the -3 board will keep everything fully working, that's fine by me and I'll get a new Dumbass board. Still curious why, in the middle of all the BW games that got the new -3 board, STTNG would specifically call for a -1 board.

#8134 8 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

The coin door interlock switch was introduced to disable the high power circuits (20v flasher and 50v coils, including flippers) when the coin door was opened. This switch was in addition to the memory lockout switch. Post a pic of you coin door switches (not the service diag switches).

Being a reimport from Germany, mine came with the 3-slot 09-6200-1 coindoor, and the interlock switch only had two lugs on this. This differs from the usual 2-slot door commonly seen on domestic STTNG, IJ, TZ, etc. and its interlock switch with more terminals.

You can see the wire harness to the coindoor only had terminals for the two switch lugs as well.
100_3483 (resized).JPG100_3484 (resized).JPG

#8135 8 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

Some detailed information about the STTNG Pinball Borg Ship. Nice ideas about painting too. Back Alley Creations does amazing paint work, if you want to customize your ship.
https://backalleycreations.com/.../borg-ship-and-cannons...
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Link is no good and I can’t find it on their website. Care to re-share?

#8136 7 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

Some detailed information about the STTNG Pinball Borg Ship. Nice ideas about painting too. Back Alley Creations does amazing paint work, if you want to customize your ship.
https://backalleycreations.com/.../borg-ship-and-cannons...
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

These are great! Do folks know of others that do this sort of painting for TNG? Would love to see other treatments and snaz up our cannons/borg ship/shuttle

#8137 7 days ago
Quoted from BriPin:

Link is no good and I can’t find it on their website. Care to re-share?

https://backalleycreations.com/collections/star-trek-pinball-mods/products/borg-ship-and-cannons-paint-job'

Here you go.

#8138 7 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Pinwiki shows STTNG power driver board as an A-12697-1. The manual also specifies A-12697-1.

The Pinwiki is a great source of information and you should trust it. Just like Williams manuals it is NOT error free. The best part of the Pinwiki is that you can change it to correct errors. The Williams manuals ... not so much. Just let someone like ChrisH or JimP know about the errors and they (or someone else) can fix them.

These are images from the Williams manual. Other than the one page that specifies A-12697-1 it specifies A-12697-3 everywhere else. The page that references A-12697-1 uses the -1 designation because the board layout is -1. The difference is the flipper relay components and F112. This game uses A-12697-3 = NO flipper relays and associated circuitry.

00_sttng_backbox_assembly.jpg01_sttng_power_driver_bom.jpg02_sttng_power_driver_layout.jpg03_sttng_power_driver_connections.jpg

Quoted from jibmums:

and the interlock switch only had two lugs on this. This differs from the usual 2-slot door commonly seen on domestic STTNG, IJ, TZ, etc. and its interlock switch with more terminals.
You can see the wire harness to the coindoor only had terminals for the two switch lugs as well.

I don't see an interlock switch at all. All I see is a Cherry SPST microswitch wired as switch 22 (GRN-RED + WHT-RED). This is a low voltage switch on the switch matrix to detect coin door open / closed state. It does not interrupt high voltage. The high voltage interrupt (interlock) switch is a DPDT switch.

Post an image of the transformer and the wiring coming off the transformer secondary. Odds are you don't even have the "tap" of the high voltage secondaries and those wires route straight to the backbox (J102).

#8139 7 days ago
Quoted from BriPin:

Link is no good and I can’t find it on their website. Care to re-share?

They do great work and have a wide variety of other mods too.

#8140 7 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Being a reimport from Germany, mine came with the 3-slot 09-6200-1 coindoor, and the interlock switch only had two lugs on this. This differs from the usual 2-slot door commonly seen on domestic STTNG, IJ, TZ, etc. and its interlock switch with more terminals.
You can see the wire harness to the coindoor only had terminals for the two switch lugs as well.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That switch you've taken a photo of is the memory protect switch (aka the coin door closed sw22 in the switch matrix); the white-red and green-red wires will go to J9-4 and J9-5 respectively on the coin door interface board and then through to the CPU board. This has nothing to do with the interlock switch.

Both the 2 slot (domestic US) and 3 slot (export) Entropy coin door used the same door frame (see the below pic from the manual showing the interlock and memory protect switches), however for some reason your machine has the earlier Sys11/WPC door frame that has the memory protect switch embedded in the upper left (when viewed from the front) of the door frame and did not have the interlock switch. Therefore I'm guessing that when you open the coin door, you'll get the DMD warning that the high voltage power is disabled (the CPU determines this from the memory protect / coin door closed switch) but in actual fact it is NOT - you could easily verify by testing your solenoids with the coin door open, if they fire then clearly the power is not actually disabled.

pasted_image (resized).png

As to why your game has the earlier Sys11/WPC door frame and no interlock, I'm wondering if it was a prototype or sample game (as the inside of your cabinet has no sign of the dual switch bracket having been mounted previously). Can you find the white-red (20V flasher) and black-yellow (50V coil) heavy gauge wires in the front left hand corner of the cabinet? This is part of the secondary cable that comes from the transformer, with these 2 wires being routed from the secondary bundle to the interlock switch and then back into the bundle that then goes up into the backbox. If those 2 wires aren't routed to the front of the cabinet (to the missing interlock switch) then this machine was never built with an interlock. Hence maybe this machine was a prototype or sample game and WMS was simply using up leftover stock - what is the build date on the serial label? I guess there is always the possibility that a German distributor requested machines with no interlock, however to retro-fit an interlock will require not only adding the coin door and switch brackets (as well as the interlock switch itself) but you'll also need to either replace the secondary cable bundle, or cut & reroute the white-red and black-yellow via the newly added interlock.

STTNG interlock switch (resized).jpg

#8141 7 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The Pinwiki is a great source of information and you should trust it. Just like Williams manuals it is NOT error free. The best part of the Pinwiki is that you can change it to correct errors. The Williams manuals ... not so much. Just let someone like ChrisH or JimP know about the errors and they (or someone else) can fix them.
These are images from the Williams manual. Other than the one page that specifies A-12697-1 it specifies A-12697-3 everywhere else. The page that references A-12697-1 uses the -1 designation because the board layout is -1. The difference is the flipper relay components and F112. This game uses A-12697-3 = NO flipper relays and associated circuitry.

Darn tricky manual! And corroborated at Pinwiki no less!

Quoted from DumbAss:

I don't see an interlock switch at all. All I see is a Cherry SPST microswitch wired as switch 22 (GRN-RED + WHT-RED). This is a low voltage switch on the switch matrix to detect coin door open / closed state. It does not interrupt high voltage. The high voltage interrupt (interlock) switch is a DPDT switch.
Post an image of the transformer and the wiring coming off the transformer secondary. Odds are you don't even have the "tap" of the high voltage secondaries and those wires route straight to the backbox (J102).

I assumed it was an interlock switch, they all look similar and the part description at Marco calls it an interlock switch.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=Switch+-+momentary+E68-00A-0.1A

Quoted from DumbAss:

Post an image of the transformer and the wiring coming off the transformer secondary. Odds are you don't even have the "tap" of the high voltage secondaries and those wires route straight to the backbox (J102).

I'm actually going to post some transformer pics in a near future post for help, as I'm not confident that whatever previous owner or op converted it to US voltage did so correctly, and last thing I want when I have everything reassembled is to turn the thing on for the first time and destroy all my new boards and parts.

#8142 7 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

That switch you've taken a photo of is the memory protect switch (aka the coin door closed sw22 in the switch matrix); the white-red and green-red wires will go to J9-4 and J9-5 respectively on the coin door interface board and then through to the CPU board. This has nothing to do with the interlock switch.
Both the 2 slot (domestic US) and 3 slot (export) Entropy coin door used the same door frame (see the below pic from the manual showing the interlock and memory protect switches), however for some reason your machine has the earlier Sys11/WPC door frame that has the memory protect switch embedded in the upper left (when viewed from the front) of the door frame and did not have the interlock switch. Therefore I'm guessing that when you open the coin door, you'll get the DMD warning that the high voltage power is disabled (the CPU determines this from the memory protect / coin door closed switch) but in actual fact it is NOT - you could easily verify by testing your solenoids with the coin door open, if they fire then clearly the power is not actually disabled.
[quoted image]
As to why your game has the earlier Sys11/WPC door frame and no interlock, I'm wondering if it was a prototype or sample game (as the inside of your cabinet has no sign of the dual switch bracket having been mounted previously). Can you find the white-red (20V flasher) and black-yellow (50V coil) heavy gauge wires in the front left hand corner of the cabinet? This is part of the secondary cable that comes from the transformer, with these 2 wires being routed from the secondary bundle to the interlock switch and then back into the bundle that then goes up into the backbox. If those 2 wires aren't routed to the front of the cabinet (to the missing interlock switch) then this machine was never built with an interlock. Hence maybe this machine was a prototype or sample game and WMS was simply using up leftover stock - what is the build date on the serial label? I guess there is always the possibility that a German distributor requested machines with no interlock, however to retro-fit an interlock will require not only adding the coin door and switch brackets (as well as the interlock switch itself) but you'll also need to either replace the secondary cable bundle, or cut & reroute the white-red and black-yellow via the newly added interlock.
[quoted image]

Found the white/red and black/yellow wires from the back of the transformer and they go directly to the cable bundle to the backbox. And like you said, no evidence of screwholes for the bracket for the interlock switch inside the cab, so it looks like mine didn't come with one.

Serial # is 50223211062 and build date is 10/22/93. I don't think that makes it a sample game but it's a very early machine.

#8143 6 days ago

It's a good thing this game is fun, because otherwise it'd be hard to keep chasing new problems!

I seem to be getting phantom Start Mission triggers. Sometimes it happens when I drain a ball (and then gives me a new ball from the VUK), but not exclusively -- sometimes it's just a free mission, or some free rescue transport, etc. It's not consistent, and seems to show up more after playing a few games.

The optos all test fine and have been cleaned. If I were going to start replacing optos to troubleshoot this, which would it be? Or something else altogether?

#8144 6 days ago
Quoted from goldgrae:

The optos all test fine and have been cleaned. If I were going to start replacing optos to troubleshoot this, which would it be? Or something else altogether?

Define "test fine".
Have you wiggled wire harnesses while in switch mode to see if the optos are false triggering?
Have you banged the middle of the PF while in test mode to see if any switch is triggering?
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#.22Jittery.22_Opto_Switches

I had a whole bunch of problems on my game... all opto related. I eventually just "shot gunned" the issue and replaced every yellowed OPTO emitter in the game with a new blue one. My issue was that while the camera showed the emitter working... the yellow epoxy in the OPTO (due to age) was preventing enough IR light from hitting the PhotoTransistor. Replacing them all just got me to the point of not having to worry anymore.

#8145 6 days ago
Quoted from goldgrae:

It's a good thing this game is fun, because otherwise it'd be hard to keep chasing new problems!
I seem to be getting phantom Start Mission triggers. Sometimes it happens when I drain a ball (and then gives me a new ball from the VUK), but not exclusively -- sometimes it's just a free mission, or some free rescue transport, etc. It's not consistent, and seems to show up more after playing a few games.
The optos all test fine and have been cleaned. If I were going to start replacing optos to troubleshoot this, which would it be? Or something else altogether?

Replacing components without determining the actual faulty component is an expensive way to troubleshoot an issue.

If you have an intermittent opto switch issue, it could be a faulty board or connector or wire or solder joint or opto. I'd start with Zitt suggestions, then check the opto connectors and the solder joints on the individual opto switches (a magnifying glass is useful in spotting cold solder joints). Videos of the gameplay highlighting the issue could be useful if still struggling to find where the issue is.

#8146 6 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Found the white/red and black/yellow wires from the back of the transformer and they go directly to the cable bundle to the backbox. And like you said, no evidence of screwholes for the bracket for the interlock switch inside the cab, so it looks like mine didn't come with one.
Serial # is 50223211062 and build date is 10/22/93. I don't think that makes it a sample game but it's a very early machine.

Production is slated as starting in Nov 1993 and Steve Ritchie only filed the US patent on ball staging for the STTNG on the 28th Oct 1993.

Post a pic of your game's neutral zone

#8147 6 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Production is slated as starting in Nov 1993 and Steve Ritchie only filed the US patent on ball staging for the STTNG on the 28th Oct 1993. Post a pic of your game's neutral zone

Neutral zone, and the serial # sticker.

neut (resized).jpg100_3684 (resized).JPG

#8148 6 days ago

Good job folks. Lots of help. Makes our nice games, look and play their best.

#8149 6 days ago

New member here, I just picked mine up yesterday. I only noticed this hole on the left side near the flipper button after I got it home, would anyone know what this may have been used for? It reminds me of a car lighter.

100_0698 (resized).JPG
#8150 6 days ago
Quoted from DarthPaul:

New member here, I just picked mine up yesterday. I only noticed this hole on the left side near the flipper button after I got it home, would anyone know what this may have been used for? It reminds me of a car lighter.
[quoted image]

Key switch. Probably remote service credit. Lets the bar employees give a credit if coin got lost/jammed without having access to the coin box.

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