No, the machine has been in my possession for years, I’m just getting in to it now.

But my supports look a bit like that

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

Yours are also installed in reverse. The tall end goes in the middle of the PF. You will be able to save them they aren't beyond repair I think. This is likely what's causing the pf to sit too high.

For the cabinet/transformer wiring, it's in the WPC Schematics manual on the first page. Here's a link:
https://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/PDF%20Pinball%20Misc/Williams%20WPC%20Schematic%20manual.pdf

A) Cannon domes are not POR. They were on protos; but cost reduced out.
B) I also have problems them. I don't think there is anything wrong with yours. It's unclear there is actually anything wrong.

thanks Mikeman. The crimps seem to be the same electrically as the jumper wires in the schematic (just uglier). I'll get to fixing that later.

I probably need to change the Varyistor to a 130V one. and add in a service outlet.

and clean,clean,clean

Update.. spent 30 minutes trying to reproduce this with glass off, no luck. If it is a thing, it is related to some sequence or amount of other switch hits..

hi koji,

I might be able to help you out. try this:

- with the glass removed, start a new game, select light lock
- then directly lock a second and a third ball (it really helps here to have 4 balls in the left VUK)
- now do the shooting part and don't let a ball drain, doesn't matter if you hit or miss..
- once the mb starts, you should start grabbing the balls directly from the left flipper and put them into the the neutral zone as fast as you can.
- do this 20 times.
- then stop and wait for 4 balls from the left VUK and the other two should come out from the cannons. works here every time.

it also works with the center shot, but not that reliably because there is this "Jackpot!" sound that most of the time interrupts the VUK.... that's why it bothering me: if you get good at hitting the center shot, you might have 10 or something consecutive hits, and that normally triggers 4, or sometimes even 6 balls.... what helps is saving one ball on the right flipper btw.. but I don't really like that as solution =(....

this is actually driving me crazy since Christmas... I've checked anything! new optos installed everywhere, changed MPU with ASIC and ROM, new ribbon cables, new 16-opto board, swapped Eddy sensors, new switches for the cannons, tried other (newer) VUKs, installed a gate at the VUK entry, shims for the left VUK, shims for the ball trough.. new opto boards for the through.... almost anything... an "endoscope" to check whats going on inside the VUK... everything works perfectly... still having this problem....

and as you said, nothing on the internet about it... (checked German and French forums too)... nothing.... so I thought it must be something weird with my STTNG.

What I (currently) think is going on: if the left VUK kicks a ball out, the other balls inside are being pushed back. when they are still moving and you feed other balls into the subway, the ball count somehow gets messed up...

Would be really interesting if more people have the same problem... or if it's just a mechanical or electrical defect we are having here.. currently I think it is a bug. maybe lowing the VUK firing rate would help: so that you never hit the center target in the moment it VUK kicks out a ball...

ps. not sure, but I think this is actually my first post here!! I've been here reading along for almost a year now.... thanks to all for all the great info!! and thanks to pin_guy for all his cool pics and explanations! really miss him.. hope he is doing well!

pps. and sorry for my English =)

Your English is great, and thank you for the reply.

Very interesting, I'll give this is a shot. With regard to staging, thank you, certainly could have been a factor for me as well, since it did happen to me in a 2 player game... man, do I wish I had it on video.

I think there may have been some variables for me, as I am pretty sure when it happened, I had drained a ball so it also launched from the shooter lane while loading the phasers.

Re the ball count, it would be great to know more about how this era was coded.. but it seems to me, this might be more common if there was a bug in this condition... or maybe I'm just really hoping it is yet another little easter egg in this crazy game.. .. even if it is a potential exploit to make something cool happen, knowledge of a repeatable way to produce it in game is gold!

Thank you for restoring my sanity.

I still need to try this and to more testing, but IIRC, the phasers operated just like they do in final frontier where you can fire them during the MB. If this were some kind of bug just related to clearing the VUK, I would presume that they would not operate like this? I guess as you say, more testing to break down the opto switches made which is triggering this.. alternately, checking decompiled code I suppose to try to determine if there is some functionality here.

I love it tho.. even if it is unintended.., just the concept of having an extension to borg MB like this is a great feature/idea

it also works in Ferengi MB. if you have 3 (or more?) balls in play and keep hitting the center hole. iirc I've also seen it only with two balls in play, but much less frequently...

The problem: you do not see the direct cause... to check if there has been a problem, you have to wait for the VUK to stop kicking out balls (just catch them with your hand)... if you get more than three, you know it must have happened earlier.

When the ball sits in the cannon the driver transistor is actually pulsing very rapidly. I wasn't comfortable with that being the ground for the voltage regulator.

I am not sure if it what I had was home made or a kit.

For those who use PinSound Studio Pro, there is a new update.
Version 22.05.1
Not yet clear on what the new features or fixes there are....
Enjoy!

pinsound (resized).JPG

Test report keeps telling me to check the top drop switch, but it goes up and down perfectly fine in the solenoid test. Any ideas?

Even though the drop target goes up & down in solenoid test, it doesn't mean the drop target switch is registering it correctly. You need to raise the target in solenoid test, then change to switch test and verify the status of the drop target switch (#57), then manually drop the target and see if it correctly reflects the change in state in the switch status. It could be a failed switch or solder joint, or simply the switch just needs some adjustment.

Hey everyone, I just joined the club a couple of weeks ago! On game turn on, are both cannons supposed to run a test? My right cannon goes back and forth but the left one doesn’t move. It works fine during gameplay though. Any idea what that is about?

Thanks!

Hi SNES,

also pretty "new" here.... if you search for it, you will find posts telling none of them should move, others stating that both should move. Posts that tell you to replace cables, and posts that tell you that it doesn't matter....

During the last year, I saw my cannons moving both, only the right one, and only the left one... I had replaced cables, optos, coilsleeves.. it seems to be pretty random actually....

last week I decided to have a closer look. here is what I've found:

- the plunger is pretty small, if you think that the opto is designed to be interrupted by a ball.

- remove the cannon cover, go to switch test and then push the plunger manually (leave the coin door open! there is a coil close by.....)

- if I do it here and push the plunger a little from the bottom, it interrupts the opto.

- if I push the plunger a little more from the top, the opto is not interrupted!!

- if I push it in the middle, then it is a bit random I would say....

then I removed the receiver on one cannon and checked what's going on there. (see picture 1 and 2)

1 (resized).jpg 2 (resized).jpg

I haven't replaced the coil-holders(?) so they might have an influence on the plungers "end-position".. (see pic 3).

3 (resized).jpg

anyway, adjusting the optos seems to be the key to get either both canons moving at start or none of them. the little pcb on which the optos are can be moved a little more up to block the beam, or you can lower the opto a little to get the cannons moving.

I've added a small spacer above the opto holder to get them more down... although people are saying that this is a test for the cannons - I've just checked 2 days ago, that if this is a test, it doesn't seem to be really testing something.. maybe if the "home-switch" is released when the cannons start moving, but for everything else (e.g. disconnected mark switches), there is no error triggered or reported.

pretty happy that my cannons are not moving at start-up anymore =)

it's not only working with Ferengi Multiball... it's also working within PinMame!!! I guess we really have found a bug..... thanks for reporting and restoring my sanity... I've rebuilt half of my pinball searching why this is happening.... =)

Awesome write up! I’ll have to dig into it a little and see what I can find. Thank you for the pointers!

That's normal, nothing to worry about.

Pin_Guy (resident expert on all things STTNG) stated "I believe the game tests only one cannon to check the validity of the column 9 pulse on startup, if more than one cannon is being tested, the game is checking for cannon switch operation prior to flagging a switch error for failure to change states in X games."

wow... I did miss that.... I had in mind, that pin_guy said that none of his cannons moves.... I found the post you are referring to here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/49#post-4648624

and some discussion there:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/89#post-5765668

Here only the right was turning, the left only sometimes...when I checked the optos and made the photos... adjusted the optos and now none of them moves... but maybe this opto-adjustment would be a too simple solution to the cannon mystery.... should I test 30 games without cannons and look for error messages? diagnostic code should then trigger it, right?

and a question: the interuption of the opto triggers the turning here... both cannons still fire at startup.... so do you only have one cannon firing? mine always has fired both iirc...

There are (2) switches per cannon located under the playfield. One switch tells the cannon position when it's HOME, the other switch "activates" the ability for the player to shoot the ball (preventing you from shooting it too soon thus back down the ramp.

If you just got the pin, you've got some TLC to do on it. Due to the age, the motors and the mech is likely gummed up. The LOOMs (wiring harnesses which control the opto, light, coil) in each cannon often break somewhere in the harness. You should (in all cases) replace the cannon looms.

If the motor isn't working, it's could have it's own issues, or the gears are gummed up. Trust me, it's a pain to take them out, however you can buy new motors. Also, each motor is controlled by a little board. Trace the wires underneath and see if everything seems connected.

Roll up your sleeves and welcome to the world of pinball service!

Has anyone heard anything about Soren's progress on working on a STTNG Firmware update??

LOL ... how is this relevant ???

Soren has never shared the list of machines he's actually working on or what is planned.

So, both the manual and the taped on label to these wires say J104, but theyre currently hooked up to J105. I should correct that, right?

PXL_20220531_163446326 (resized).jpg

They are identical connection points. It doesn't matter. It's on the WPC schematics available online.

You seem to be super motivated with your machine, maybe you could give a shot at making some patches, or rewriting the code.

Always thought what this guy did was pretty cool:
http://www.jamescardona.com/DM.html

Rewritten using:
https://github.com/bcd/freewpc

But there is quite a bit of documentation about disassembling actual WPC roms as well. (And quite a few pinsiders have shared steps and documented their efforts in custom rom work etc.)

It's fairly complicated, particularly if you do not have a background in assembler or low level programming, but since we are able to load it into pinmame for testing, there is def. an opportunity to learn and figure things out if you have the time and energy to do so.

Were you to be able to incorporate these rom changes to better integrate with some of your mods, the result could be even more amazing.

Thanks! As I keep working through the board, I see 138/137 are all connected on the pcb as well, and again its hooked up to the opposite of the manual. Same situation?

Yes

regarding the turning cannons again... I have a theory about the plungers:

- if the home switch is not closed at start-up, cannons turn until they find home.

- if the home switch is closed at start-up, the interruption of the opto (with the plunger) causes them to turn.

- I've been adjusting my mark switches, and if they are not closed at start-up, the plunger does not fire... even if the home switch is closed.

now to the interesting part:

- the plunger pulse at start-up is exactly the same as when you don't shoot the ball out of a cannon AND the mark-switch gets triggered (from 0 to 1)...

and now a pretty simple explanation for the plunger action at startup:

- probably the plunger pulse is just the switch matrix handler for the mark-switch being initialized and going from 0 to 1...

I'm just starting with WPC PinMame Debugging (in for 3 days now) but once I'm at speed and have found and fixed that 6+2 bug that has haunted me for months now....I'm going to find out why the cannons are firing at startup... and what causes them to turn exactly. =)

but for now, my theory sounds pretty solid. right?

What’s the 6+2 bug?

your right... it's the 4 plus 2 bug.

4 balls from the VUK, 2 from the cannons...

in a multiball with 3 balls in play (and one additional one in the left VUK), hit 10 or 20 times the center shot directly.. or the NZ, doesn't matter, but needs to be ending up at the left VUK again, then you get 4 Balls from the VUK and additionally 2 from the cannons...

and it works with PinMame too.

here is where we started talking about it: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/156#post-6947279

Hmm.. that is crazy you repeated it in pinmame. Did you stage this somehow in emulation?

How frequently does it happen in a normal game for you? I've only had my STTNG for just less than a year, but this is the first and only time I had noted it in regular gameplay.

the bad thing is: it only happens when I have a really really good game... hitting the center shot 10 or 20 times in a row is not the average game... but if you practice... you are getting better and better...

and now... I'm afraid of playing a good game.... and I mean.. I really shouldn't be, right?

=)

I did what I had told you first how to trigger/reproduce it:

- start BM
- keep hitting the center hole for 20 times... maybe I did 50
- PinMame STTNG gave me 4 + 2 balls (and they don't drain there by themselves =))

edit:

now I understand what you mean... you just have hotkeys for the shots... it's pretty cool. this is what it looks like:

Screenshot from 2022-06-01 00-17-49 (resized).png

2nd edit:

and here we are. 6 balls on the playfield:

Screenshot from 2022-06-01 00-30-05 (resized).png

Ahh I see. Thanks. Yes I finally agree it is a bug. I reproduced it with your initial steps and found that once I drained the original balls, the machine ball count is off, as it no longer recognizes the extra balls in play.. You can start a mission with 3 balls still.. Lol.

As you say something to do with overloading the left vuk and the machine loses count... Pretty cool.

now I only have to get you to adjust your cannon optos and we're on the same boat =)

Did I miss something? nothing wrong with any of the switches on my game?

I wish I had the skills too. Thank you for the suggestion

Hoping someone can point me in a direction to at least get me started troubleshooting. Was playing a game and the machine had been playing great for about a week after finally figuring out and swapping out the trough opto boards that had some hacks. In the middle of multi ball the display and flippers went dead and all the balls were released. After they all drained, some of the solenoids would continuously fire like the cannons. I decided to power down and think about it for a bit before opening it up, any help would be appreciated.

fuse 116 was bad and replaced, game is back up

Glad we could help!

Can anyone take a pic of their J126 connection?

Found this pic of J126 in the thread's gallery (courtesy of MrMikeman)

STTNG J126 (resized).jpg

If you're after the pinout wire colours, this is from the manual

STTNG J126 wiring (resized).jpg

So I definitely don't have a wire in pin 3. That...seems wrong.

That picture was posted as an example of how the wire looms are held in the backbox. It’s not a pic from my STTNG. It’s from Dr Who.

If a wire is missing check the bundle of wires that goes to that connector. That wire may be broken and shortened?

A friend made a custom topper for my STTNG machine. At the moment the color selection is manually controlled but I may try to make it a bit more interactive to change colors with the game. I think he is willing to make more of these. Probably just under $100 if it works out. Will get some pictures to see how this prototype looks on the game.

STTNGtopper (resized).jpg

Has anyone installed a display screen in place of the traditional back glass? This is done normally in a virtual pinball machine, however haven't seen this as a "mod" for a Williams wide-body machine.
The photo below is just a reference image showing the idea...
thanks for your information..

ThreeMonitorConfig (resized).png

ThreeMonitorCutaway (resized).png

I think that might take you to where no one has gone before...

exactly

Folks, I’ll soon be receiving a ST:TNG. It will need new cabinet stickers on the head. Any advice on who is selling the highest quality reproduction cabinet art these days?

Looking forward to playing this gem of a machine again!

Interested in new cabinet decals for the head as well.

You've asked this before in this thread and you were told at the time that you should make a new thread for this, since you are limiting yourself to STTNG owners when you should really ask the question about any WPC head. The heads are all the same size, widebody or not.

You would likely need to move all the boards to the lower cab.