Thanks for the responses, I thought it might be a switch lever but couldn't find a switch where it belonged. I believe the crank arm connection should be a roll pin, but this might have been a hack repair where it was a cotter pin. Should be able to get it fixed up. Mystery at least partially solved

New Mod for Star Trek The Pinball Experience! Plasma Disc for the Command Decision location. Enjoy

Finally got it all put back together and found the flipper issue. The "New" opto boards that everyone claims are a direct replacement don't fit. The Optos are visibly larger on the new boards. Swapped my old boards back in after re-soldering and voila, working pin!

Home Pin work fine

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Those work fine, yes, I was referring to the Flipper Optos only. Sorry for any confusion.

Can you post some pics of the old and new boards?

Interesting. These are the trough optos? I bought replacement boards and mine fit just fine. Maybe a different manufacturer?

No he was replacing the flipper opto boards, not the trough opto boards. However he mentioned soldering, so wondering whether he replaced the optos on the flipper opto boards (rather than doing a full board swap).

There are several opto boards for the flipper buttons. There really isn't any soldering required if the mini .100 connectors are in good condition. On those boards, certainly cleaning them with a Q-Tip and windex is good, and a must.

A friend of mine did an extensive restoration of a STTNG pin, and documented the entire process in photos. Thought posting this might benefit some people.
http://purcellvillepinball.net/STTNG2013-03.html

The solder joints on the actual optos on the flipper boards can crack too, especially if the diverter has been rubbing on them over time.

Would love a little guidance from fellow TNG owners. Any tips for adjusting the central neutral zone switch, pictured here? I can't seem to get mine sensitive enough. Unless I score an absolutely direct hit the ball is counted as if it fell through the advance rank hole.

The switch works and in test mode it takes only a light tap to trigger just like any of the stand-up targets, so I'm not sure if there's nuance to this one. Appreciate any help!

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No pics currently, I will try and grab some soon. The issue I found was that Marco's lists part A-20207-P as the direct replacement for the opto board compatible with STTNG. The manual lists this part number as A-20207.1, which Marco's also sells but claims is only compatible with the Indiana Jones pin. Going with Marco's recommendation I order the -P parts instead of the .1 parts. The sensors themselves are roughly 1/8th of an inch larger on the -P boards than they are on the .1 boards. My experience with them installed was that when the machine DID register the switch it would act like it was being hit repeatedly, most of the time it would say the switch was not engaged at all. I am currently waiting to hear back from Marco's on whether they will let me return the -P boards. I did extensively clean the original boards and reinstall them and am getting much better results. The quick solder job I had to do was on the resistors on one of the boards, no solder on the "top" of the board(outward facing side) at all.

As for the trough optos, those I replaced net new as well. They originals were a little hacked and scorched and once you've replaced most of the other boards, why not?

OK, pics! First photo shows the original board on top of the new board matching up the optos. You can see the size difference between the two. The new board is larger. Second pic is them side by side, original on left, new on right. They look very much the same. Some more visual inspection on Marco's website of the A-20207.1 part makes me fairly certain that would be the correct board for this machine.

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Hmm.. yeah that's a pretty common thing with many TNGs I have encountered.

Mine seems ok_.. but it became much more difficult after I installed the neutral zone cliffy. Have not checked it out yet as for adjustments.. but def following. Thanks-

The subtle difference in the size of the opto won't be an issue as long as the interrupter can still break the beam and best not to rubbing against the sides of the opto. Is your interrupter white or black? I have read where people have discovered the white ones can cause issues. Did you try breaking the beam with something else?

Didn't even occur to me that would be part of the issue. I installed one right after I got this table. Hrm.

First thing I’d do is throw that shot-blocking enterprise toy into the trash

Shot blocking Enterprise? Do you actually need to see where the ball shoots from? Strange, most players make decisions based on the changing choices on the DMD. Well when you have my machine, you can toss the ship in the trash, until then certainly keep your worthless opinion. Better, let's see your machine...so we can all take turns insulting you with our non asked for opinions.

It's a public forum, grow some thicker skin!

I have the black interrupters. I don't know the logic or physics behind WHY the new ones aren't working, but I can definitively tell you they do not. Whether a "fatter" interrupter is meant to be used for these or there is some logic built into the CPU for machines that use this larger opto is way beyond my skill level. The new boards either do not register at all or "flutter" when the machine is on.

I agree that it should not make a real difference if the opto is simply a beam being broken by an object, then the distance between the two points generating and terminating said beam is irrelevant as long as it is still being interrupted.

Also, the interrupters on the old cards don't come close to rubbing the sides, the gap is much larger on the new cards but ample on the old ones as well.

I've also noticed most part supply sites want to include the metal springs, my machine does not have these and when I tried to put them in, they don't fit in the clearance under the right side of the playfield. Anyone else have them and if so, did you alter them in any way?

I don't have any optos . Previous owner replaced them with regular flipper switches. Works great.

Someone put leaf switches on the game I bought too. Surprisingly the two main flippers worked but not the upper right flipper. Got two reproduction opto boards, plastic interrupters, return springs for the interrupters, and repin New connectors. Now they work like they should.

There is a small difference in the position of the upper flipper opto, so the interrupt allows for individual control of the flipper. I really can't imagine someone choosing a physical or mechanical contact verses an opto. The 20 machines I work on at the Vortex all have leaf blade contacts, and over time, they wear down.

The reason you may find a STTNG pin with a traditional flipper mech installed, is most likely they did not have a replacement on had when the machine was on a route. I could be wrong, but it seems like "get it working no matter what thing".

Here is an example of misalignment and proper alignment

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Continuing my work replacing the small crank arm. I disconnected the motor and pulled the gear box. From there I got the old roll pin out and put the new crank arm on. I reassembled everything and the cannon didn’t turn. If I pull the motor off it spins. I disassembled everything again and the small crank arm will spin when not connected to anything else. It’s a little choppy and there is a clicking noise. Cannon was smooth before I started this, any ideas?

This is not a likely answer, however be sure to remove the metal shaft which goes through the playfield and clean clean clean it to get the old hardened white grease off. Also use a small wire brush to clean smooth the hole. When assembling, oil it. There should be NO resistance at all and easily move. The original motor may move, but may also have some damaged gears. Certainly there are several blogs on taking it apart to clean and oil it, but it is like a watch inside. New motors can be purchased. After you've done this, reassemble the system but don't attached the top plate with the cannon assemble on it yet. During the cannon test, the assemble should move back and forth. You will need to check the 2 switches which tell the cannon where HOME is. Seriously, it's a challenge when I finally got mine right. INSPECT the plastic arms (large one and small one) for cracks. This is also a fantastic time to install NEW cannon looms as they get damaged over the years

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QUESTION for anyone who is experiencing or knows about this problem. DROP TARGET CHATTERING

Richard Lavallie has been doing a lot of research into the issue of the STTNG rear drop target "chattering", and there is a video he produced included in this post. I have the issue in my machine as well.
Summery. New Drop Target Assembly, all wiring checked and connected correctly, LX7 operating system, new ribbon cables, tie back mod completed, new connectors through out machine, new mini driver board, and finally...the game plays perfect.

Issue is the shuddering the target mech seems to do. In some of his documentation he claimed it was a faulty micro switch. I ordered a replacement so I haven't installed it yet.

thoughts?

Sounds like one of the relays is firing because it doesn't know which state the drop is in while down.
I'd check for proper operation of the switch when "down".
IE does switch register correctly when the drop target is down.

Thanks. I looked back in this blog and had seen some conversations related to possibilities. The "bad switch" video he had made using a meter really showed the likely cause. When the new switch comes in, and I have the playfield up, more information will be known.

Several interesting aspects of issue: It's a new assembly. The problem doesn't continue but only for a few moments. (as you know, most things in the pinball world are either working or broken)

You may have read Richard was designing his own Mini 8 Driver Board to include some components not included on his new RD board. Certainly it's above my brain level to fully understand if he was considering the problem was related to his (new board) verses the old Williams board.

Technical thoughts please. Mini 8 Driver Board comparison
First, let me state I like Rottendog products and had good luck with them.
So this post is not about someone's general opinion about brands......

I would like to understand technically the difference, if any, from the Williams designed Mini 8 Driver Board and the Rottendog Version please.
I have included photos of both, so why are there less components on the RD board? In the posted information on the board, they mention "Simplified solenoid driver design using FET technology". ok cool.

Why am I asking? When I first got my machine, I didn't know about the mandatory TIE BACK mod, and the result was burning up a coil and a mini 8 driver board. Ok, I learned from this mistake. So on replacing the board (I will honestly admit my replacement skills of board components is lacking) I purchased the Rottendog board. It works, as well as other products from them. Recently I came across a post related to the Drop Target chattering issue, which I am still investigating. I have the same issue. Now let me state, it may be a bad switch, however the mini 8 driver board controls the drop target.

Anyway, thank you in advance for your worthwhile information and thoughts.

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In regards to understanding the technical differences between the 2 designs, the B/W board outputs are driven by TIP-102 transistors with a 2N4403 pre-driver - the 2 transistors are used in the circuit to "amplify" the power. The 74ALS576 octal latch turns on the 2N4403 transistor that can only handle a comparatively small amount of current, which in turn activates the TIP-102 transistor that can handle a much greater current load. While on the RD board the latch drives a single FET per output (rather than the pair of transistors), hence the comment you found stating the RD board has a "Simplified solenoid driver design using FET technology". I don't know what specific FET the RD board uses however there are a range of Youtube clips on FETs and also on the differences between bipolar transistors (BJT) such as the 2N4403 and TIP-102 verses FETs.

My suggestion would be get the original 8 Driver Board repaired (it'll be 1 or 2 transistors that'll need to be replaced) and you'd be able to swap over the boards as a way to confirm whether or not the RD version is the cause of the behaviour you're seeing. If you end up sticking with the RD board, you can sell off the B/W board to recoup the repair costs (plus some) or you could keep it as a spare.

Thank you for all of that information. The FET information is what they provide in the description of the RD board. As I mentioned, I have their Power Driver Board for the STTNG and think it's fantastic and the redesign seems perfect. It's refreshing to get wisdom and great information on this page, thanks again.

I'm looking for a link to a site to buy Cliffy's for my STTNG machine. Anyone have a go-to?

He does it all through email. Fairly quick to respond too considering: http://www.passionforpinball.com/protectors.htm

http://www.passionforpinball.com/sttng_scoop.htm

It has pricing and ordering details at the bottom of the page

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Has anyone considered using this Bluetooth version of the Enterprise D as a topper? Some modifications would be required for external power and to somehow bypass the on buttons. However this one is inexpensive and has leds installed. (not the bulbs as in the 1993 playmates toy ship)

If someone has, certainly learning your details of the experience would be worthwhile and interesting. thank you so much

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Do you have any pictures of your wiring in the backbox where it connects to the driver board and also the cannon wiring under the playfield. The wiring on many of these games gets hacked up, etc and maybe one of us can spot something. There are so many variables that it is difficult to help without more details.

Can you check for this issue? Maybe it is a short on the mounting?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/warning-to-rottendog-wdb089-owners-check-it-now

You mention your old driver was burned up, etc. Were any of the connectors burned too? Were those fixed and wired exactly the same and verified against the manual? What did it do with the old board in it? Do you have pictures of your old board and details on the messed up areas?

Often people pop in a new board but that won't solve issues that are in the game itself.

MORE INFORMATION to share.
Tests are in. In the case of the 2 boards in the post, the A-16100-2 Driver Board did NOT change anything related to the noisy chattering drop target, however did NOT work controlling the functions of the Cannons returning to their home.

It's possible the absence of a resistor at location R36 may be the issue. On the Rottendog board, a resistor (switch 4) must be in place for the STTNG pin.

You are using the wrong board unless someone has changed the configuration on the board. Double check the configuration on the board matches the configuration specified in the parts list and verify it against the schematic.

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Consult the schematic that is documented in the manual.

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This is exactly why is group is so amazing. I had no idea this was the wrong board. Purchased it from Planetary Pinball, however it not their fault, they just sold me what i asked them too.

Your information is great, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!!

Yes the 8 Driver board has 2 variants depending upon the game it went it, and as per the PPS webpage the A-16100-2 in used on Demolition Man, Roadshow.

A-16100 has jumpers on SW2, SW4, SW6 and is used in TZ, STTNG and IJ; while A-16100-2 has jumpers on PW1, PW3, PW5 and is used in DM and RS.
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Auxiliary_8-Driver_Board_.28A-16100.29 has more details if you're intersted

So this eliminates the board as being the cause of the noisy drop target, although not the cables/connectors to it. I re-watched your clip of the drop target and that chatter can also briefly be heard at the 29s & 34s mark of the clip - in these cases the drop target is down and seems to move slightly upward, but whether this is the main "up" coil or the small "drop" coil firing (or trying to fire) is hard to confirm and it'd be interesting to see what the switch state was in. Also at the 35s mark, the target is put up - at the start of it when the coil is being energised you can very briefly hear the chattering before the target comes up.

Couple of things:
1. Have you received/installed the replacement micro switch you ordered? Think this is probably the next thing to try
2. Reading back through your posts, you indicated you had a tie back issue that burnt out a new RD board and some coils - was one of the coils the "Up" coil? I assume you replaced the coil and sleeve, but wondering whether it has done some partial damage to some of the other components (eg wires, connectors or on the mech)

Definitely a strange issue - keep us informed what you find

thank you so much

Note: the video clip is from someone else's machine who has the same problem......Yes, early on in the restoration of my machine, the tie back mod wasn't done correctly (or at all), and I have the lock on issue and burnt driver issue on the mini 8 driver board. Now, the board has been replaced with a Rottendog 8 mini driver board, tie back has been added, all connectors are perfect.

The drop target assembly is new, everything. So tomorrow evening I will be seriously investigating the micro switch issue, the part came in.
Yes, something is energizing briefly the coil, in rapid order.

If by chattering you mean the rapid reset (3 times) after the ball is plunged then you are chasing a non-existent problem. On the plunge(for the modes that do not let the ball go in the top hole) the ball bounces around a lot after hitting the target and there's a chance it may go in. All STTNG will rapidly reset the target UP 3 times when hit on the plunge. It's a way to decrease the odds that the ball will go in the hole unintentionally. In regular gameplay it will not do that 3X reset.

I find it odd that people try to find problems where there aren't any. Is the game working? yes? leave it be!

Thank you sir for the information. I have had (2) of these machines, and read all the blogs and information out there, yet have never came across your information. So thank you. STTNG is a complex pin to get working correctly, and I work on many machines as well. Knowing what "normal" is can change day by day. Several other individuals have posted on this topic with similar concerns

Thank you

All good. I would have responded earlier if I had realized the chattering was about the triple reset. If the drop target switches aren't working properly you will get the credit dot. I think the important thing to take away here is unless there are gameplay issues or a credit dot, there is likely nothing wrong with the game. A prime example: there is the common question on why the game fires 3 balls when 6 balls are in the trough and the assumption that it's a problem. It's usually accompanied with "but the game works ok". If the game works OK then it's normal!

Right. Someone had posted last week related to this issue, to the point he was convinced the issue was in the mini 8 driver board, or possibly the micro switch on the drop target. And in 95 percent of issues with pinball machines, it actually is a physical problem the machine has (age, wear, tear...)
However in my case, without joking, all but the coin door board is new. All the connectors are replaced with new ones. Target assembly, new....
Even the ribbon communications cables, new. Even LX-7 cpu firmware. So when this odd behavior came up, it seemed like wth??

Yes you are correct, all the Sttng’s reset the drop target multiple times by design, I think he’s chasing a problem that’s not a problem.

Just like most STTNG episodes