No, it can't go on forever, so it would need to have an end point, like you can do up to 10 caverns before escaping, or something like that. (Isn't it already like that though? I honestly can't remember since I always skip it.)

I think it would be great if the guaranteed points choice had something to sweeten the pot... an artifact, a mode bonus, maybe it starts a mini mode which could light EB... something to make the decision between the two tougher. But that ship has sailed, sunk, and burned down. We'll get whatever Soren wants and it will be great!

It is but Dwight talked about this in an interview somewhere, sometime and discussed how they originally planned for more randomniss but eventually they all decided the released result was better. Of course no one and nothing is perfect, they were coding for arcades and not home users, etc. so someone else may come up with a very clever solution but I don't see how truly random could ever work to the point you choose it over the points.

Just speed it up slightly after each cavern, eventually it’s impossible to continue. Tune it for 10-15 caverns.

What if there were 3-4 variations and it randomly picked one each time you selected it?

Not truly random, but at least some variety.

I kinda like it being static as I can get better at it over time. I think it’d be too fast if truly random (or maybe the color DMD just has lag).

I like the static shuttle mode as is.
I used-to remember the pattern... and was about 50-70% effective.
But now I'm more like 20 percent because I don't play enough.
I wouldn't' want a random cavern or unlimited caverns.
There really isn't Much I would change on STNG... personally; I think Soren is wasting any time on it.

Yes, well said.
The original bulbs did all they could do, but you are totally right. RGB lighting, which changes light in the newer Stern Pins, is over the top cool.
And why wouldn't you want that? The "romance of the old yellow dim, too hot bulbs" is silly. I work on too many machines, replacing the burned out board connectors, and fried circuit boards to appreciate the load needed to make "old and dim" work. Also replaced many warped and melted plastics, due to heat.

To each their own, it's not my business to suggest what anyone "should like", it's your pinball machine. However if you "ask me" advice on how to make your machine operationally more sound, and better looking? I will share my opinion.

Thanks for all the conversation discussions.

For sure.. Riker Poker and points are pretty silly in comparison to what you can get from a completed holodeck.

159m vs 50m with a Straight flush in Riker Poker? and even less with the guaranteed points.

If your goal is making it to Final Frontier, the Holodeck is also pretty over powered for obtaining easy artifacts.

-----------

When I think of Random holodeck, I think the first and last tunnel stay as they are (1 mine and 10 mill in tunnel 1, and the artifact in the last tunnel), but the other tunnels are randomized so it's not about the route.. any route leads to the last tunnel, but it's more about dodging mines and collecting points.

Ability to randomize but keep the same order of neutral zone encounters between players for competitive play is a must.. this is a pretty common WPC fix that for example, is already applied to demo man.

Some balancing in mission scoring.

Boost up the Romulan mode.

--------------

Anyway.. just optional settings in general.. but good to have for home tournaments etc.

There are a few ways to solve this. Maybe slowing it down by 10% and taking away one or two tunnels might work. I posted about it over in the Soren thread. Here's what I said:

Another alternative could just be to randomize and slow the mode down a bit.

For home play, you could simply award the artifact in addition to the 25 million option when selected. If you know the route, the only reason you play it at home is to go for the additional artifact. By just awarding it anyway, you cut down on the amount of times you have to play it, which would really only be when you want to. It's not as much fun to do it that way though. I'd rather earn it.

Maybe instead of having to take the correct route, you just have to make it through X number of caverns. That way it's really the bombs you're avoiding. However, this option isn't exactly in keeping with the spirit of the game.

Yet another option would be to program several fixed routes that are selectable in the settings. Maybe something a little harder than left left right right etc. like it is now. You could close your eyes and randomly select a route on the settings. That would provide some challenge until you figure out which one it is, then you could randomly change it again.

You could also have several passages (maybe 4) that lead to the end, but the awards are randomized at the end of each route. So going to the end of route A would result in 100M one game and then maybe an artifact next time. For multiplayer games, they would stay the same based on how many times each player has played the mode. If player 1 plays the mode and gets 100m at the end of route A, then player 2 will know 100m is there for their turn. They would still need to know the exit patterns for the other routes though, and even then they only have a 1/3 chance to get the artifact.

Finally, it could be fun to have an option of actually randomizing the video mode itself! Instead of shuttles, you randomly get the hidden Breakout game or Riker's poker.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades/page/11#post-6303806

Also, it would be nice to actually incorporate the Neutral Zone lock light since it's on the playfield but left out of the software. Maybe we should start a wish list as a community and send it to Soren?

Yeah,. it would be great to agree on a comprehensive list of must-haves for score/mode balancing etc, and nice to haves for things like random shuttle modes and what not. Def a popular enough game.

What's the best way to accomplish that? Google Doc?

I have no idea if Soren wants a hundred pages of our ideas, haha... but a Google doc seems fine. Even if no one uses it, it would be fun to have a organized, curated list of enhancement ideas.

To make the document useful I think it's important keep the notes carefully edited ... items should have a priority or cost/benefit rating, labeled as benefitting tournament play or home play, and so on.

I'd like to know more about how the work is done... part of writing a good spec is understanding how much work a given idea is to implement. Sometimes, things that seem easy are not due to the way the technology works. There are probably some very interesting limitations in reworking these old games.

I'd be more than happy to put in my two cents, most of my career was being a game designer. But there are good ideas all over, this isn't warp field calculus, and my expertise certainly isn't in pinball design.

The only thing I might change is Romulan mode. Risk reward out of wack. I like the pattern and free artifact but could see the appeal of random.

But really, not much to change. This game is a gem.

Would you like a custom made "Borg Alcove Display" for your STTNG Pin?
Yes, it's cool! No, it's not cheap, however it's LESS than the Indiana Jones Ark of the Covenant Topper, and does way more!!!! Contact me by texting my phone 501-249-8628
[email protected]

332795a1ff90715b343355e1d1cf1d27a552ba00 (resized).jpg61637a547e83d4a4e9ecb2377a54df3da5f48a05 (resized).jpga2628b46ad72e7a2a816de99b5506f4fc57fb71d (resized).pngaa620dd645b5eb01b6db7534e01680acc2093c44 (resized).jpgfdf10d8d7f592ccb67840884b16d6542ab52af56 (resized).png

The skills shot on the Data East Jurassic Park worked like this. 5 or 6 random animations where had to pull the trigger to shoot the dino. Originally they were in the same order. The awesome 6.0 code randomized this.

Holy crap that looks cool. How does it work in terms of the display changing for different modes?

The display doesn't need to connect or alter your machine electronics in any way. The video media changes continuously to enhance a wide range of gameplay moments.

With the additional of an external sound system (sound bar or external speakers) there is a soundtrack designed to go with the video. A must do if you ask me, to go with the display.

And the sound doesn't interfere with original gameplay sounds, or even PinSound upgrades. The soundtrack only makes it better.

For your interest, here are some screen shots of the Borg Alcove Display.

Borg Screen Live Wallpaper.00_11_47_21.Still007 (resized).png

Borg Screen Live Wallpaper.00_22_38_19.Still005 (resized).png

Borg Screen Live Wallpaper.00_29_30_01.Still008 (resized).png

Borg Screen Live Wallpaper.00_30_01_22.Still006 (resized).png

IMO Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you always should. I don't want to sound disrespectful but this is way too much for me.

While everybody has different tastes and I get that you like what you've done, I feel like you've done the equivalent of this:

Modded car (resized).png

Certainly you are welcome to your opinion. Even though nobody asked you for it. But thanks. Every group needs an outspoken hater. Some people even keep the old incandescent bulbs in their machines too.

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https://c.tenor.com/hP5vnQEvRJMAAAAC/patrick-stewart-laugh.gif

Daymn. Harsh. It's his game... and he's obviously a fan... *maybe* even a bigger fan than me.
You aren't wrong... but I can't fault him for going all in. Some of his work is very tasteful.

You don‘t have to like it, you certainly don‘t have to do it on your own machine. I personally wouldn‘t want it either, but I have a lot of respect for the quality of the work he has done. If he likes it and it makes him happy - great. If he makes some others happy as well - even better.

Totally agree, not good pissing on peoples fire.

Wow you guys. I didn’t say I hated it. I said it’s too much for me. I think the level of detail and care he put in his mods is off the charts good.

Nice to see there is no room for ANY opposing opinions. What was I thinking. Here I am behaving like this is a forum for discussion. Sheesh.

It’s beautiful. Keep up the good work.

Apologies for pissing everybody off. I forgot we are now in a generation where everybody is a winner and gets a medal.

Hey man, tone it down! You're the one acting all butthurt.

Now back to pinball please.

I think he just said what a lot of people were probably thinking but knew someone would give them crap for saying.

Agree. I am reminded of a quote from the rec.games.pinball usenet group in 2002: "...it belongs in there about as much as a ham sandwich does."

It’s good to be nice, I hate negativity it just puts a downer on things. Best just to think it sometimes, not everyone is thick skinned.

Essential Meaning of opinion
1: a belief, judgment, or way of thinking about something : what someone thinks about a particular thing.
Recently posted my STTNG Borg Alcove Display Mod on PinSide. Got a lot of positive and great feedback.

I never asked for you to endorse my work, art, passion or mods. If you don't like it, perfectly fine. However attempting to discredit someone's work is neither helpful or constructive.
If I was, certainly the STTNG Pinball Group would provide it. The talent of the individuals on this amazing page is vast and very technical. From fixing an old machine to get it working again, to the most cool and extreme mods it's possible to imagine.

Sure, I see stuff on here where someone does things to there machine, that makes me sick...granted. I assume they like it, great. At least they are engaged in their passion. Other things blow my mind, and push the boundaries of imagination. And I think to myself, wow, wish I would have thought of that. Cool. Wow. And I will post my compliments and in some cases ask them to share more information.

I only post on here helpful answers to questions, or share the mods I do because it makes me happy. In the case of the Borg Mod, thought other fans of the show would enjoy something like that in their machine.
thanks for reading.

If you're going to post your mods and stuff on Pinside, or really any public website you should expect and be able to handle someone saying they don't like it without getting hurt or caring very much. I don't think anyone discredited your work, one person said it was too much for them, that's all. Surely you know that for every person that's modding the hell out of their game there are "traditionalists" kind of shaking their heads and thinking it's too much or over the top. This isn't new in this hobby at all and it's common in other hobbies like classic cars (cargument!) too. Bottom line is don't be surprised if someone doesn't like your work and let it roll like water off a duck's back and you'll be fine.

Great looking addition ,still thinking of moving STTNG out or I would already have it. I wish I had the ability to do that and I would make the whole darn backbox an LCD.

Anyways…

Absolutely fine not to like something...because it makes no difference to me whatsoever. Guess it's age and education thing. Can't say something good, why go out of your way to say something bad?

I’m waiting for an extra large pin2dmd and custom speaker panel for my STTNG
Blast away

Oh I forgot about that project. Curious to see how it turns out. Was it tricky to figure out the parts needed?

CURRENT STTNG Pin Project:
Replace the old and crummy punch down connectors with these. NO, I am not using the crimping tool, it's a pain. I am soldering each wire to the connector itself. Yes, it's a pain, but best electrical connection ever.

Working on several other machines, sometimes the wires are just too small to make a reliable connection. What a bunch of work...lol

molex-6-pin-.156-wire-h_284-0 (resized).jpg

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Sorry; but that is incorrect.

NASA has proven that crimping is the best possible way:
https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/201%20General%20Requirements.html

Stick with pinned connectors!

Look what I found in the parts stash... a brand new Bird of Prey ornament! I forgot I had it!

People have been putting these into the pin since the beginning... can anyone point me to the current best practices?

I see an under-wing lighting mod here, which also powers the built-in LED. Looks good but are there other options I should know about?

http://pinball-mods.com/oscom/kbop-wingleds-p-1.html
BOP (resized).png

Piling on. Please tell us you aren’t going to proceed… this is really a terrible idea on many levels.

As the designer of that board/kit... I have nothing to add.
You can of course just do a resistor mod and use the existing bulbs if you wish. A google search for the original rec.games.pinball post might yield some results... but I couldn't find it just now when looking it.

Edit: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation#Klingon_Bird_of_Prey_Mod has the resistor value.

Thank you kindly @zitt! Looks like I will be happier laying out for your board, it does look nice!

I have one Warm White PCB set and 4 red-LED sets. I do not know if I'll be able to restock in the current Chip Shortage environment.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stng-wingled-kit/page/2#post-6563145

Davey is making the kits from pinfo, only thing not so good is it has to use 3” speakers due to the screen size but I’m just going to add an 8” sub with filter and level control so should sound ok. Should look pretty good on this pin.

Warm white is what I want—getting out of bed and ordering now, heh. Thanks!

EDIT: Qapla'

Anyone go over to the HEP thread and see that STTNG? Such a beautiful sight. I gave myself a 4 month goal in getting mine.

Where do I get these 3 piece lane guides… in purple?

D4831466-5203-4F0F-BAFE-0E73F5334E13 (resized).jpeg

Following. I want them too.

I got mine in purple from Marco. I can't remember what size, but measure them. They only come in a few sizes.

I ordered these; https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8318-10 for mine but haven't installed them yet. They look more purple than blue to me.

Exactly what I got as well. They're definitely purple.