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(Topic ID: 47092)

St:tng owners welcome aboard the uss enterprise


By Pinballgeek

7 years ago



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  • 365 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 17 hours ago by luckycreature
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There are 4704 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 95.
#501 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

Is there any way to make it more sensitive?

Maybe by bending the components closer together? Mine is super-sensitive. If it were me, I'd just replace the whole leaf switch. They're like $7 and only have 2 screws under the playfield.

#502 4 years ago

^^ this, and also look at the padding (foam) if it is mushroomed or feeling like it might absorb too much, replace it

#503 4 years ago

I guess I didn't take enough pictures when I tore my STTNG down. Any idea where this goes?

image_(resized).jpeg

#504 4 years ago
Quoted from rdbronko73:

I guess I didn't take enough pictures when I tore my STTNG down. Any idea where this goes?

Here, to the right of the delta ramp.

20160523_130658_(resized).jpg

#505 4 years ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Maybe by bending the components closer together? Mine is super-sensitive. If it were me, I'd just replace the whole leaf switch. They're like $7 and only have 2 screws under the playfield.

When you're ordering a new switch, also consider getting one of these:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518

At first, I thought it was silly to spend $9 on a little tool like that. But it works so well, I don't know how I ever adjusted switches without it.

#506 4 years ago

what is the default size of the screws in our game? I want to get more but have no idea what it is 8/32?

#507 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballholder:

Here, to the right of the delta ramp.

Thank you

#508 4 years ago
Quoted from mskoenen:

When you're ordering a new switch, also consider getting one of these:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518
At first, I thought it was silly to spend $9 on a little tool like that. But it works so well, I don't know how I ever adjusted switches without it.

Wouldn't have a pin without this tool! Just be careful not to put too much pressure on the end of the slot of the tool or use it to adjust thick leafs like flipper buttons.

#509 4 years ago

From the few pics you posted the game looks like it's in really good shape, looks like below average neutral zone wear, and the original silk screened apron looks very nice. To answer a couple of your questions, the switch matrix looks correct for a game with all balls removed and the drop target in the down position; the drop target isn't visible from the players perspective and is located at the top of the game under the Borg ship. It looks like this:
1122_(resized).JPG 1123_(resized).JPG 1124_(resized).JPG

The Neutral zone switch you are asking about is switch #27 as seen in this illustration:
Switch_location_(resized).png
Switch_matrix_(resized).png

This there are numerous reasons why the switch isnt reading properly, but if you can press it hard and get it to register it is probably, bent, corroded, or both. I think you can still buy replacement for this switch, but you can also just clean the contacts and adjust the leaf spacing.

#510 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Would you mind posting a pic? It's just that looks fine is really subjective as one mans "looks fine" could be another persons "WTF were you thinking"
Trust me it's me and I know ... for me everything is black and white, there is no grey; it's going to be either perfect or needs work
Knowing is half the battle ...

Here's a couple of shots. It's been about 10 years now, trigger is showing wear. It was a quick cheap fix to get it looking decent. Disassembled and cleaned with little sanding. Did not take down to bare metal. Was not a fancy restoration, just clean up.DSCN4601_(resized).JPGDSCN4602_(resized).JPG

#511 4 years ago

ugh.. I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have bought one of these and stuck to video games... now it shoots balls from the starting point like crazy, the switch tests fine. I really thought I would be able to figure these things out if there was a problem, I have a feeling I'll never be able to play with the glass on with this thing

#512 4 years ago

Look at your boards and see if anything is fried.

Clean/then dry all the optos with q-tips a touch of windex...sounds like it doesn't recognize the balls when they go to their areas...STTNG "holds" balls all over the place and if your optos are not working it'll go nuts.

#513 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

ugh.. I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have bought one of these and stuck to video games... now it shoots balls from the starting point like crazy, the switch tests fine. I really thought I would be able to figure these things out if there was a problem, I have a feeling I'll never be able to play with the glass on with this thing

You actually picked the worse game to cut your teeth on... STNG is one of the most complex and problematic machines out there.

I don't have any advise... other than try to take the emotion out of the troubleshooting. Eventually; you'll either learn or find someone who can teach you.

#514 4 years ago

can the opts be affected by light? If there is an led shining on them?

#515 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

ugh.. I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have bought one of these and stuck to video games... now it shoots balls from the starting point like crazy, the switch tests fine. I really thought I would be able to figure these things out if there was a problem, I have a feeling I'll never be able to play with the glass on with this thing

if you took the balls out or if you made multiball on the previous game, then before the next game starts, it will preload balls into all the VUKs by firing them from the launcher into the area under the borg ship. that's normal. if it launches more than 3-4 then you most likely have a problem with one of the two diverters in the subway, preventing the balls from getting to their preloaded positions.

#516 4 years ago
Quoted from Goner:

Here's a couple of shots. It's been about 10 years now, trigger is showing wear. It was a quick cheap fix to get it looking decent.

It's still looking good Goner.

#517 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

now it shoots balls from the starting point like crazy

Are they making it all the way to the top, and is the drop target in the down position so the balls can enter the subway? Or, do the balls shoot to the top then come back down to the ball trough?

#518 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

can the opts be affected by light? If there is an led shining on them?

Typically no, an LED flashlight will emit a specific wavelength of light in the visible light spectrum, the phototransistor that WPC games use is in the IR range ... 880nM.

#519 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

ugh.. I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have bought one of these and stuck to video games...

Nawww ... You are just not familiar with how the game operates; like Pez mentioned, the game preloads balls into the VUK's, the reason for this is very straight forward ... by doing this, there is no game delay caused from a ball entering the subway, as soon as the ball is detected in the subway, the VUK kicks out the ball that was pre-loaded rather than having to wait for the ball to roll all the way down into the VUK.

To help you out, you know what the switch matrix should look like with no balls in the game. With your 6 balls all in the proper spots, the matrix should look like this:

Normal_Matrix_(resized).png

The yellow arrows are showing where the balls moved to ... I realize this isn't entirely accurate since trough 1, 2, and 3 are now in trough 4, 5, and 6, position, and balls from 4, 5, and 6 were loaded to the VUK's ... but it's good enough to see what happened.

One thing to remember ... Mechanical switches are normally open unless they are triggered by something, optical switches are the opposite and are normally closed unless the beam is blocked by something.

#520 4 years ago

Anyone run into issues with the PROXIMITY SENSOR II ASSY. #A-16922-1. I am having a helluva time to get this thing to light up. I've replaced sensor and have concluded this is the issue. Unfortunately I have been unable to find this part anywhere.

The board is receiving current, however there seems to be an issue with current going to the Eddy Sensor.

Not sure how to fix this last remaining issue in my game.

#521 4 years ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

Anyone run into issues with the PROXIMITY SENSOR II ASSY. #A-16922-1. I am having a helluva time to get this thing to light up. I've replaced sensor and have concluded this is the issue. Unfortunately I have been unable to find this part anywhere.
The board is receiving current, however there seems to be an issue with current going to the Eddy Sensor.
Not sure how to fix this last remaining issue in my game.

You should post this to the TDM forum as this isn't a game specific part.

#522 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Nawww ... You are just not familiar with how the game operates; like Pez mentioned, the game preloads balls into the VUK's, the reason for this is very straight forward ... by doing this, there is no game delay caused from a ball entering the subway, as soon as the ball is detected in the subway, the VUK kicks out the ball that was pre-loaded rather than having to wait for the ball to roll all the way down into the VUK.
To help you out, you know what the switch matrix should look like with no balls in the game. With your 6 balls all in the proper spots, the matrix should look like this:

The yellow arrows are showing where the balls moved to ... I realize this isn't entirely accurate since trough 1, 2, and 3 are now in trough 4, 5, and 6, position, and balls from 4, 5, and 6 were loaded to the VUK's ... but it's good enough to see what happened.
One thing to remember ... Mechanical switches are normally open unless they are triggered by something, optical switches are the opposite and are normally closed unless the beam is blocked by something.

So if I have the balls in the correct places (which it should be after I start it up and it moves the balls) I should be able to go into the switches and then see the eyes set as open as the balls should be there? I think something is going on the left ones as once in a while it will send out a ball to my left side out of no where. Would one of my yellow targets in the upper left that has the odd piece on it, that is having problems registering hits, would that affect this? It'll go down the hole but not register a hit. I'm hoping to get that tool someone suggested so I can try bending that so it is more sensitive.

#523 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

I think something is going on the left ones as once in a while it will send out a ball to my left side out of no where. Would one of my yellow targets in the upper left that has the odd piece on it, that is having problems registering hits, would that affect this? It'll go down the hole but not register a hit. I'm hoping to get that tool someone suggested so I can try bending that so it is more sensitive.

as i said earlier, this is probably the most common problem with STTNG, and the cause is almost always a dirty opto or a bad connection on an opto board.

i don't think the yellow target could cause this issue.

#524 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

So if I have the balls in the correct places (which it should be after I start it up and it moves the balls) I should be able to go into the switches and then see the eyes set as open as the balls should be there?

Yes, it should look exactly like the matrix I posted.

Quoted from ibjames:

I think something is going on the left ones as once in a while it will send out a ball to my left side out of no where. Would one of my yellow targets in the upper left that has the odd piece on it, that is having problems registering hits, would that affect this?

Probably not, this is more likely related to an optical switch, or switch matrix problem. What is most likely happening is a poor connection (wired or soldered) is making the game think your ball is in the subway, so it kicks out one of the pre-loaded balls onto the playfield. You should see this type of problem in switch test; with the game in single switch test, shake the machine, tap on the playfield, etc ... to see if one of the switches changes state , if it does you know what needs to be fixed.

These type questions should be posted to the TDM (tech: modern games) forum since that's the thread where most of the experienced techs follow.

#525 4 years ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

I am having a helluva time to get this thing to light up.

Are you saying when you adjust it it doesn't light?

#526 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

as i said earlier, this is probably the most common problem with STTNG, and the cause is almost always a dirty opto or a bad connection on an opto board.
i don't think the yellow target could cause this issue.

ok, I checked them before, unscrewed them, cleaned them, all solders look good, I'll try it again

#527 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Yes, it should look exactly like the matrix I posted.

Probably not, this is more likely related to an optical switch, or switch matrix problem. What is most likely happening is a poor connection (wired or soldered) is making the game think your ball is in the subway, so it kicks out one of the pre-loaded balls onto the playfield. You should see this type of problem in switch test; with the game in single switch test, shake the machine, tap on the playfield, etc ... to see if one of the switches changes state , if it does you know what needs to be fixed.
These type questions should be posted to the TDM (tech: modern games) forum since that's the thread where most of the experienced techs follow.

Thanks, very helpful, I'll try it right now..

today I got to final frontier! It was awesome! I had to ignore the extra balls I'd get here and there during regular missions which was a pain though

#528 4 years ago

when I tap the playfield, I think I momentarily see trough, I think it is trough up, so I am taking apart the one that shoots the ball all the time onto the playfield, hopefully that is the problem

#529 4 years ago

welp.. took that one out, resoldered some of the connections, cleaned it.. still the same. I just wish there was a way to test this

#530 4 years ago

could targets affect balls coming in? it seems like I might be getting them when kickback is enabled... do I have to resolder the whole machine?

#531 4 years ago

Ran into another issue with one light not lighting up. I've changed it. I need to take a picture but it's under the subway and won't be fixing that this week. Probably a bad diode.

#532 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

could targets affect balls coming in? it seems like I might be getting them when kickback is enabled... do I have to resolder the whole machine?

no. if you're getting unexpected multiballs, it's almost certainly due to optos.

#533 4 years ago

I bought a STTNG a few weeks ago, heavily routed with a lot of intermittent issues. Mechanically wise, so far I've had:

- check there are only 6 balls in! Mine had 7
- was getting multiple balls launching into the trough and extra balls plunged into play at random points, an LED emitter was out on the trough board (check it using a digi camera, broken they appear dull, should be bright). Also check the resisitors are not broken and the traces are all ok. Empty the 6 balls out, go to you switch matrix and drop a ball in, you should see it pass all 6 optos one by one, then test the VUK into the trough - and check the switch in the shooter lane (mine was bent so not consistently reading right)
- drop target assembly damage. Had to replace frame & eyelet A-14913, and drop target, knockdown arm 01-8647-L. Also adjusted the microswitch so it reads the drop position correctly (check it in switch matrix)
- loose cables on the switch matrix row/column lead to the CPU board. When things got busy multiple rows would activate and the game went crazy. Also pushed in CPU just in case. Not had an issue since touch wood.
- resoldered left VUK opto - check the solder on all of the the optos is not broken, they look ok but if you press the opto you can see it's not fixed
- broken switch on delta ramp - picked up in switch matrix
- new canon actuator which was broken (canon would not turn)

For the trough optos, my next step was to order new ones which are not expensive.

Be sure to read through all the STTNG fix threads on here, I've linked below which I bookmarked. Some really good advice which I never knew was when you go through the switch matrix there is an audible noise telling you when something is not as expected (I never knew this, doh!!). I would advise clearing all the 6 balls out and go through the switches one at a time, if you hear that lower tone beep you need to investigate. Also touch/bang things including the head/cabinet, playfield, toys, etc. and look for flaky switches.

Good luck! Now that my game is running ok (just really dirty) it's a hell of a game

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-keeps-giving-2-balls
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-top-drop-target-questions
http://www.loriengreen.com/2013/09/pinball-maintenance-star-trek-next-generation/#.V0gKAOS1Z41

#534 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Are you saying when you adjust it it doesn't light?

The proximity sensor will not light up and the board is receiving power.
Rotating the pot does nothing.

#535 4 years ago

Thanks a lot for the replies, been getting a bit frustrated. Anyone have a recommendation on a solder iron? I have a cheapie one and I think I need to upgrade my setup.

#536 4 years ago

Hakko FX888D

#537 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

I just wish there was a way to test this

I don't think I read any failure description in your posts that couldn't be tested.

What exactly do you want to test?

As everyone else I definitely believe it's an opto issue. All the typical symptoms are there. It's either a bad opto, bad opto connection or the 12V are not stable enough (12V drive the optos, if that voltage takes a short dip all optos open briefly and confuse the CPU).
On most STTNG I repaired for friends "trough up" was the problem since that one is often overlooked when testing.

#538 4 years ago
Quoted from thewool:

- was getting multiple balls launching into the trough and extra balls plunged into play at random points, an LED emitter was out on the trough board (check it using a digi camera, broken they appear dull, should be bright). Also check the resisitors are not broken and the traces are all ok. Empty the 6 balls out, go to you switch matrix and drop a ball in, you should see it pass all 6 optos one by one, then test the VUK into the trough - and check the switch in the shooter lane (mine was bent so not consistently reading right)
I like this, I'm going to try this tonight!

- loose cables on the switch matrix row/column lead to the CPU board. When things got busy multiple rows would activate and the game went crazy. Also pushed in CPU just in case. Not had an issue since touch wood.
how did you determine this?

- resoldered left VUK opto - check the solder on all of the the optos is not broken, they look ok but if you press the opto you can see it's not fixed
I hear the term VUK, but I'm not 100% sure what that is..

- broken switch on delta ramp - picked up in switch matrix
you would flick the switch and it wouldn't trigger right? You would see that on the switch matrix?

For the trough optos, my next step was to order new ones which are not expensive.
Be sure to read through all the STTNG fix threads on here, I've linked below which I bookmarked. Some really good advice which I never knew was when you go through the switch matrix there is an audible noise telling you when something is not as expected (I never knew this, doh!!). I would advise clearing all the 6 balls out and go through the switches one at a time, if you hear that lower tone beep you need to investigate. Also touch/bang things including the head/cabinet, playfield, toys, etc. and look for flaky switches.
Good luck! Now that my game is running ok (just really dirty) it's a hell of a game
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-keeps-giving-2-balls
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-top-drop-target-questions
http://www.loriengreen.com/2013/09/pinball-maintenance-star-trek-next-generation/#.V0gKAOS1Z41

Thanks for the tips.

I just bought a solder iron, lead solder, wick.. all the stuff I've had to buy really adds to the cost of the pin! Sheesh! Just bought a ton of LED's also...

#539 4 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

I don't think I read any failure description in your posts that couldn't be tested.
What exactly do you want to test?
As everyone else I definitely believe it's an opto issue. All the typical symptoms are there. It's either a bad opto, bad opto connection or the 12V are not stable enough (12V drive the optos, if that voltage takes a short dip all optos open briefly and confuse the CPU).
On most STTNG I repaired for friends "trough up" was the problem since that one is often overlooked when testing.

I think it is an opto also. I took the main launcher off that spits the ball onto the track on the left side (I think that is a VUK?) I cleaned all the optos and resoldered them, and put them back in. I played last night, I had one or two times where it kicked out a ball randomly but it was reduced, I'm going to play it more and hopefully it is gone. I'll keep you posted

#540 4 years ago

Lift the playfield, go into switch test, and jiggle wires and listen for switch test activations. I had wires come loose on the molex connector right at the trough opto board.

#541 4 years ago
Quoted from spidey:

Lift the playfield, go into switch test, and jiggle wires and listen for switch test activations. I had wires come loose on the molex connector right at the trough opto board.

Thanks, I'll try this also

#542 4 years ago

I made a video of me trying the switch test with balls, I'm testing the targets because it seems when the ball bounces back and forth a few times between the targets and the flippers really quickly a new ball will kick out or a mission will start, so I am trying to test them at the same time

#543 4 years ago

If the ball is getting kicked out when flippers, slings are activated, it is probably because they are vibrating the game and causing an opto to break connection and appear to be blocked by a ball. Everything you describe is pointing to a flaky opto in your ball trough. The trough opto boards are notorious for failing. The resistor wires can break, the solder joints everywhere can break (cause a cold joint), the header can be tarnished and the plug to opto boards can be toasted.

You can take the boards out, reflow solder on everything and look for broken legs on resistors, or just get a new set of boards (improved design):

http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/index.html?http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/dcs_tr.html
http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/index.html?http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/dcs_tt.html

#544 4 years ago

First ... this is an excellent find, you have properly diagnosed a switch matrix grid problem and isolated the issue to a single diode, you just don't know it yet. As I explained in a previous post the triggering of a subway switch is supposed to kick a ball back into play. However, you are seeing this false triggering when you press the left target buttons .... why?

To explain the why, you have to understand the theory of the switch matrix, the switch matrix works because only one column can be active at any given time, the CPU drives a single column low then looks for these low pulses on all eight rows; any closed switch pulls the entire row low and any row that reports low means the corresponding switch for that row and column is closed.

Each switch has a blocking diode to prevent its activation from pulling the rows low when its own column is inactive, if this diode is shorted or installed backwards, the switch will operate normally; however, given the right condition this bad diode will allow the switch its installed in to pull the row low, causing whatever switch is in the same row, and on the active column to be read as closed.

Your video is pretty consistently pointing to bad drop target diode. I speculate that if you were to remove all the balls, press and hold your BUY IN button, then press your Left Top Bank target, you will see the Right Bottom lane switch activate. If this doesn't happen, my theory is incorrect.

A second way to verify this would be to go into coil test and raise your drop target switch, with this switch open, you should no longer see any of the left bank switches activate the Under Borg Hole switch.

Matrix_(resized).jpg

#545 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

First ... this is an excellent find, you have properly diagnosed a switch matrix grid problem and isolated the issue to a single diode, you just don't know it yet. As I explained in a previous post the triggering of a subway switch is supposed to kick a ball back into play. However, you are seeing this false triggering when you press the left target buttons .... why?
To explain the why, you have to understand the theory of the switch matrix, the switch matrix works because only one column can be active at any given time, the CPU drives a single column low then looks for these low pulses on all eight rows; any closed switch pulls the entire row low and any row that reports low means the corresponding switch for that row and column is closed.
Each switch has a blocking diode to prevent its activation from pulling the rows low when its own column is inactive, if this diode is shorted or installed backwards, the switch will operate normally; however, given the right condition this bad diode will allow the switch its installed in to pull the row low, causing whatever switch is in the same row, and on the active column to be read as closed.
Your video is pretty consistently pointing to bad drop target diode. I speculate that if you were to remove all the balls, press and hold your BUY IN button, then press your Left Top Bank target, you will see the Right Bottom lane switch activate. If this doesn't happen, my theory is incorrect.
A second way to verify this would be to go into coil test and raise your drop target switch, with this switch open, you should no longer see any of the left bank switches activate the Under Borg Hole switch.

Wow.. I would have never thought any of this.

The first test didn't work, the second one was correct though.

I put the drop target in the up position, and then tested the targets and they were fine. I then lowered the drop target, and then tried them and they were back to doing what they were doing in the video.

Do I need to replace the whole thing?

#546 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

Do I need to replace the whole thing?

No, just the diode; it's a 1N4004 and is located across the drop target switch, it could just be in backwards, the diode has a stripe on one side and the striped side should never have a wire on it.

Correct_Diode_(resized).jpg

#547 4 years ago

Joined the club a couple of weeks ago. Been having so much fun I haven't even taken a break to post here.

Two initial questions:
1) the diverter at the top of the delta ramp. I can't seem to decipher when it is supposed to be in each position. It does move back and forth, I think it's working, but I'm curious to know.

2)my colorDmd arrived. I have installed one in my PotC with no issues. Anything I should worry about with the ST:TNG install?

#548 4 years ago
Quoted from DrScoops:

Joined the club a couple of weeks ago. Been having so much fun I haven't even taken a break to post here.
Two initial questions:
1) the diverter at the top of the delta ramp. I can't seem to decipher when it is supposed to be in each position. It does move back and forth, I think it's working, but I'm curious to know.
2)my colorDmd arrived. I have installed one in my PotC with no issues. Anything I should worry about with the ST:TNG install?

First off, CONGRATULATIONS! You now have an iconic pinball machine!

Answer 1) The Delta ramp diverter should always turn unless...
a. The Delta Ramp Lock is lit
b. You are in Borg Multiball mode
Answer 2) No its super easy, as soon as mine was installed, I pulled both HV fuses from the Display board; by doing so, all of the high voltage components remain in a de-energized state. I did this because I would have no way to know if there was a malfunction with these circuits and didn't want to risk burning a card and to also to eliminate the heat produced by this section of the board.

#549 4 years ago

Pin guy, thanks for the response, could you please show me which fuses you recommend removing after installing the color DMD?

#550 4 years ago

Display_HV_fuses_(resized).jpg

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