(Topic ID: 47092)

St:tng owners welcome aboard the uss enterprise


By Pinballgeek

7 years ago



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#5001 15 days ago

Down to the final reassembly steps... Does anyone have photos of how the wiring harness wraps around the column? Trying to get everything to line up correctly

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#5002 15 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

Do they use a lot of power? And is it 12 volt power? Anyone have any installation tips or suggestions??

Never installed the lasers as I thought they'd be pretty cheatable.
That said; It really depends where the lasers install. I "assumed" they attached to the blinking cannon insert / bulb under the cover - but I'm not sure.
Regardless; I wouldn't think the laser would draw more than a 100 or two milliamps. I can't image they are any more stressful than three or for #555 lamps.
Honestly; that is a question of Mick's pinball:
https://www.mickspinball.com/star-trek-tng-laser-cannons
I'd contact them if you need support.

#5003 15 days ago

You are likely right, however the question is outside my level of experience.

#5004 15 days ago

Have a "Lock is Lit" question. You hear this a lot in game play. "Lock is Lit". I see (2) green inserts which are labeled "LOCK". However neither are actually lighted. Lamps work fine.....so what gives? Are there "several different types of "LOCKS"?

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#5005 15 days ago

Added the Eaglemoss Goddard Shuttle, replaced the Rio Grande I had there. Put it on a lighted star post to give it some 3D feel and to allow seeing the ramp better.

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#5006 15 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

Have a "Lock is Lit" question. You hear this a lot in game play. "Lock is Lit". I see (2) green inserts which are labeled "LOCK". However neither are actually lighted. Lamps work fine.....so what gives? Are there "several different types of "LOCKS"? [quoted image]

Firstly check that all 3 lock lamps work in test mode - there are the 2 green Lock inserts on the PF (right orbit and neutral zone) and a 3rd Lock lamp on the Delta Quadrant ramp.

Shoot the right orbit and knock down the drop target to light the right orbit lock and then shoot the orbit again to lock a ball.

The other 2 locks have more software rules that determine when the light or not. The delta ramp "skill lock" will only light if you have achieved multiball in less than a defined percentage of your recent games (default is 20%). Sometimes the ramp light comes on once you have one ball locked and you light lock the 2nd time. Also I think if you shoot the skill lock, the right orbit lock will remain lit.

Lock at the Neutral Zone (NZ) can be lit by lighting the NZ for one of it's multiballs - completing the round, then lighting the NZ again. But again I think it might also depend whether you are below the defined percentage of games that multiball are achieved in.

#5007 15 days ago

Thank you, I must not have looked and the LOCK light off the playfield, possibly that is the light being referenced. Super detailed information on this topic. You rock!!!

#5008 15 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

Thank you for the Borg Game Play comments....Useful!! LASER CANNON question....I made the plunge and ordered them today. And I understand they are powered off the motors themselves. Do they use a lot of power? And is it 12 volt power? Anyone have any installation tips or suggestions??
Even though I've taken steps to reduce the 12 volt usage on the machine, the last thing is needing something else which may affect the machine's ability to "know" where the ball is.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Eric,

Thank you for asking, the lasers really do not draw much power at all, I have been making these since 2002, and never has there been any power issues, also they are only lit when the motor is running, (yes, 12V dc)....a few seconds at a time...with no affect on "real" power consumption.

Mickspinball.com

#5009 15 days ago

Ha, hi Mick, I was just going to text you. I have the Color DMD, (1) 12 volt small light strip, and the led flipper buttons which are on the system. I know previously with another strip on there, the F116 I believe fuse was blowing. Just for reference, all the boards in the pinball except for the CPU board have been updated / upgraded including the more efficient opto board rebuild. So what I have been reading is, if a lower voltage than 12 volts is present, the optos get flakey and the machine gets the whole "I can't find the ball" crap.
I will admit this is outside my knowledge area greatly

#5010 14 days ago
Quoted from Digduglus:

Does anyone have photos of how the wiring harness wraps around the column?

I have pictures of everything!

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#5011 14 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I have pictures of everything![quoted image]

Dude thank you! How about how the wiring harness wraps around the post under the plastics?
Also heya from Cedar Rapids

#5012 13 days ago
Quoted from Digduglus:

How about how the wiring harness wraps around the post under the plastics?

I'm not sure what you are referring to, the cannon harness goes straight through the playfield and shouldn't wrap around anything, the playfield hole this cable runs through can be seen in the picture I posted. When installed properly this cable experiences very little movement and practically no stress when the cannon is in operation.

If you find yourself in the Des Moines metro, look me up; well have a beer and play some pinball!

#5013 13 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I'm not sure what you are referring to, the cannon harness goes straight through the playfield and shouldn't wrap around anything, the playfield hole this cable runs through can be seen in the picture I posted. When installed properly this cable experiences very little movement and practically no stress when the cannon is in operation.
If you find yourself in the Des Moines metro, look me up; well have a beer and play some pinball!

I figured it out, thank you! and Heck yeah, I like UpDown, but have been wanting to check out Operating Room at some point. (If either are open)

#5014 13 days ago
Quoted from Digduglus:

I figured it out, thank you! and Heck yeah, I like UpDown, but have been wanting to check out Operating Room at some point.

Both the Ankeny and West Des Moines Operating rooms are open; the owner is a distributor for Stern, JJP and American Pinball so he has all the latest games on location. JJP GNR LE is at the Ankeny Location. I maintain the machines at the Ankeny location so they should all have the latest code and play flawlessly

Typical Sunday morning crowd at the Ankeny Location:

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#5015 13 days ago

Worth noting: the top three failures on new machines are:

1) Stern flipper coil stops. There's no good way to say it, these just suck, the brass rivets holding the stop to the mount breaks before there is any wear.

2) Broken wires, switches and coils, all makes; high vibration areas, it happens

3) Game mechs failures ... apparently neither JJP and American Pinball have heard of, or know what Permatex or Loctite is Stern does a better Job at this but also has substantially fewer Mechs.

#5016 13 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Both the Ankeny and West Des Moines Operating rooms are open; the owner is a distributor for Stern, JJP and American Pinball so he has all the latest games on location. JJP GNR LE is at the Ankeny Location. I maintain the machines at the Ankeny location so they should all have the latest code and play flawlessly
Typical Sunday morning crowd at the Ankeny Location:
[quoted image][quoted image]

That's an impressive lineup of machines - how often are you having to there to fix issues?

#5017 13 days ago

Not that often, most of the common issues like broken rubbers or stuck balls the staff handles, there are no coin mechs so these issues don't exist. I do more code updates than actual repairs, maybe 1 repair every couple weeks. That being said, a lot of the folks playing the machines don't really know if they are working properly so I usually find/fix problems on machines that I'm there to play. New machines have the most issues when they first come in, this is not uncommon as they are played the most and any manufacturing defect (loose mech, bad solder connection, etc...) show up in the first couple weeks and then the machine is fine.

#5018 13 days ago

CANNON SET-UP QUESTION:
The STTNG Manual provides no documentation or illustration of the CORRECT positions of the motor arms. Note: I rebuilt my cannons, optos, etc. AND they are working, finding the "HOME" position and so on.

The real question come from the strange activity they sometime do. Picard will say "Launch A Probe", and the left or right cannon will cycle through, return to home, and then the ball will load. The RIGHT SIDE ONLY will not allow you to fire the ball until it's on the "return" swing back.

Does anyone have good photos of a proper and good setup? Showing the arm positions related to the contact switches underneath the playfield. I am installing the laser mod and now is the time to address this issue, IF it's an issue.
Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

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#5019 13 days ago

Help! I broke my ST:TNG and it’s my fault! I’m 2 weeks into troubleshooting with 2 parts orders and have not fixed it. It’s my favorite game and I’d appreciate any help I can get.

BLUF: 4 Solenoids don’t work associated with J2 on daughter 8-Driver PCB assembly after I plugged something in backwards. Put in new 8 PCB and replaced fried Solenoids, still doesn’t work.

What I did:

I removed the CPU board (A-12742-50023) to throw in my Twilight Zone to troubleshoot (I fixed TZ!). Upon putting the CPU board back in, I plugged the ribbon cable J204 (left side of Board in backwards). I turned on the machine, and after about 30 seconds smelled smoke, so turned it off, rechecked all my connections, and realized what I did. J204 connects directly to the 8 Driver PCB assembly (A-16100).

What I’ve done:
1. I left the machine alone a few hours to let smell clear, and then reseated the ribbon cable in the correct direction.
a. Upon firing up the game, the game does the thing where it cycles balls continuously trying to stage the ball for the game. Shoots into drop target, then pops ball out left side continuously.
b. Cannot start a game
c. Solenoid test reveals last 4 items in test don’t work including up/down drop target and under playfield diverters.

2. I assume I fried my A-16100 daugterboard and order a new one… wait a week and install.
a. Fire machine up, fuse F103 blows immediately. Replace fuse, same thing.
i. Unplug J connectors on 8 Driver PCB one at a time, when J2 is disconnected, fuse does not blow.
ii. Trace those wires, they lead to the 4 solenoids not firing.
iii. Disconnect the brown wife from the top underplayfield diverter and plug in J2, fuse does not blow… It must be the solenoids shorting
iv. Realize I cannot physically move the diverters associated with solenoids, order 2 new ones. Removal reveals old Solenoid completely melted. I already have a drop target in hand.

3. I install new solenoid into top underplayfield diverter. Plug in J2 into 8-Driver PCB assembly. I enter test mode and Solenoid still does not fire. So… with new 8-Driver PCB assembly and new Solenoid, test Solenoid fire does not work. I have not yet replaced the drop target and or 2nd solenoid. At a loss for what else to do to fix.

Thank you all!

8-PCB (resized).pngCPU Board (resized).pngOld Solenoid (resized).jpg
#5020 13 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Worth noting: the top three failures on new machines are:
1) Stern flipper coil stops. There's no good way to say it, these just suck, the brass rivets holding the stop to the mount breaks before there is any wear.
2) Broken wires, switches and coils, all makes; high vibration areas, it happens
3) Game mechs failures ... apparently neither JJP and American Pinball have heard of, or know what Permatex or Loctite is Stern does a better Job at this but also has substantially fewer Mechs.

Haha. So timely. I just added a stern JP couple weeks ago and the left coil stop broke at the rivet. I was like “wtf!!!???”

#5021 13 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

Help! I broke my ST:TNG and it’s my fault! I’m 2 weeks into troubleshooting with 2 parts orders and have not fixed it. It’s my favorite game and I’d appreciate any help I can get.
BLUF: 4 Solenoids don’t work associated with J2 on daughter 8-Driver PCB assembly after I plugged something in backwards. Put in new 8 PCB and replaced fried Solenoids, still doesn’t work.
What I did:
I removed the CPU board (A-12742-50023) to throw in my Twilight Zone to troubleshoot (I fixed TZ!). Upon putting the CPU board back in, I plugged the ribbon cable J204 (left side of Board in backwards). I turned on the machine, and after about 30 seconds smelled smoke, so turned it off, rechecked all my connections, and realized what I did. J204 connects directly to the 8 Driver PCB assembly (A-16100).
What I’ve done:
1. I left the machine alone a few hours to let smell clear, and then reseated the ribbon cable in the correct direction.
a. Upon firing up the game, the game does the thing where it cycles balls continuously trying to stage the ball for the game. Shoots into drop target, then pops ball out left side continuously.
b. Cannot start a game
c. Solenoid test reveals last 4 items in test don’t work including up/down drop target and under playfield diverters.
2. I assume I fried my A-16100 daugterboard and order a new one… wait a week and install.
a. Fire machine up, fuse F103 blows immediately. Replace fuse, same thing.
i. Unplug J connectors on 8 Driver PCB one at a time, when J2 is disconnected, fuse does not blow.
ii. Trace those wires, they lead to the 4 solenoids not firing.
iii. Disconnect the brown wife from the top underplayfield diverter and plug in J2, fuse does not blow… It must be the solenoids shorting
iv. Realize I cannot physically move the diverters associated with solenoids, order 2 new ones. Removal reveals old Solenoid completely melted. I already have a drop target in hand.
3. I install new solenoid into top underplayfield diverter. Plug in J2 into 8-Driver PCB assembly. I enter test mode and Solenoid still does not fire. So… with new 8-Driver PCB assembly and new Solenoid, test Solenoid fire does not work. I have not yet replaced the drop target and or 2nd solenoid. At a loss for what else to do to fix.
Thank you all!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Your shorted coils probably fried the transistors on the new board 8-driver board. Use the 8-driver board from TZ to test things if you are SURE that no other associated coil has melted and shorted.

You have likely melted all coils related to the 8-driver board, as well as destroyed the associated flashers (and maybe even warped plastics as the flashers overheated). I have seen it before (on a TZ as it turns out - not mine!)

#5022 13 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

Help! I broke my ST:TNG and it’s my fault! I’m 2 weeks into troubleshooting with 2 parts orders and have not fixed it. It’s my favorite game and I’d appreciate any help I can get.
BLUF: 4 Solenoids don’t work associated with J2 on daughter 8-Driver PCB assembly after I plugged something in backwards. Put in new 8 PCB and replaced fried Solenoids, still doesn’t work.
What I did:
I removed the CPU board (A-12742-50023) to throw in my Twilight Zone to troubleshoot (I fixed TZ!). Upon putting the CPU board back in, I plugged the ribbon cable J204 (left side of Board in backwards). I turned on the machine, and after about 30 seconds smelled smoke, so turned it off, rechecked all my connections, and realized what I did. J204 connects directly to the 8 Driver PCB assembly (A-16100).
What I’ve done:
1. I left the machine alone a few hours to let smell clear, and then reseated the ribbon cable in the correct direction.
a. Upon firing up the game, the game does the thing where it cycles balls continuously trying to stage the ball for the game. Shoots into drop target, then pops ball out left side continuously.
b. Cannot start a game
c. Solenoid test reveals last 4 items in test don’t work including up/down drop target and under playfield diverters.
2. I assume I fried my A-16100 daugterboard and order a new one… wait a week and install.
a. Fire machine up, fuse F103 blows immediately. Replace fuse, same thing.
i. Unplug J connectors on 8 Driver PCB one at a time, when J2 is disconnected, fuse does not blow.
ii. Trace those wires, they lead to the 4 solenoids not firing.
iii. Disconnect the brown wife from the top underplayfield diverter and plug in J2, fuse does not blow… It must be the solenoids shorting
iv. Realize I cannot physically move the diverters associated with solenoids, order 2 new ones. Removal reveals old Solenoid completely melted. I already have a drop target in hand.
3. I install new solenoid into top underplayfield diverter. Plug in J2 into 8-Driver PCB assembly. I enter test mode and Solenoid still does not fire. So… with new 8-Driver PCB assembly and new Solenoid, test Solenoid fire does not work. I have not yet replaced the drop target and or 2nd solenoid. At a loss for what else to do to fix.
Thank you all!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Damn. Bummer. First of all. Breathe. Stop panick replacing.

I’m no expert, but did you start with the obvious stuff? Validate that your fuses are all the exact right ones for their holders and check for functioning. Replace as appropriate.

#5023 13 days ago
Quoted from MrMikeman:Your shorted coils probably fried the transistors on the new board 8-driver board. Use the 8-driver board from TZ to test things if you are SURE that no other associated coil has melted and shorted.

Quoted from holminone:

Damn. Bummer. First of all. Breathe. Stop panick replacing.
I’m no expert, but did you start with the obvious stuff? Validate that your fuses are all the exact right ones for their holders and check for functioning. Replace as appropriate.

I'm hesitant to steal from Twilight Zone based off of my experiences here. What you are saying is very helpful though. I was working off of the assumption that the new 8 PCB board was known good as it is brand new. I may have damaged it by hooking it up to fried coils. I am guessing that my next course of action would be to, continue replacing fried coils. If they are melted slag they have to be replaced anyways. Figure out which portions of the 8PCB board are associated with the broken Solenoids. Test, test, test. I think I have replacement small parts, but with 2 boards I should be able to bastardize one working board if only a portion of the board was fried.

Thanks and if I'm missing anything please let me know. I've got work to do tonight now!

#5024 13 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

I'm hesitant to steal from Twilight Zone based off of my experiences here. What you are saying is very helpful though. I was working off of the assumption that the new 8 PCB board was known good as it is brand new. I may have damaged it by hooking it up to fried coils. I am guessing that my next course of action would be to, continue replacing fried coils. If they are melted slag they have to be replaced anyways. Figure out which portions of the 8PCB board are associated with the broken Solenoids. Test, test, test. I think I have replacement small parts, but with 2 boards I should be able to bastardize one working board if only a portion of the board was fried.
Thanks and if I'm missing anything please let me know. I've got work to do tonight now!

It's a piss poor design IMHO. Connecting backwards grounds all circuits which fires all coils. They could have easily had all connected to +5v instead in which case nothing would work but at least you aren't destroying circuits.

#5025 13 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

I'm hesitant to steal from Twilight Zone based off of my experiences here. What you are saying is very helpful though. I was working off of the assumption that the new 8 PCB board was known good as it is brand new. I may have damaged it by hooking it up to fried coils. I am guessing that my next course of action would be to, continue replacing fried coils. If they are melted slag they have to be replaced anyways. Figure out which portions of the 8PCB board are associated with the broken Solenoids. Test, test, test. I think I have replacement small parts, but with 2 boards I should be able to bastardize one working board if only a portion of the board was fried.
Thanks and if I'm missing anything please let me know. I've got work to do tonight now!

Test the driver transistors on the 8, you probably have one or more shorted from the bad coil(s). Make sure if you replace a coil that if the old one has a diode so does the new one and that you wire it up exactly the same with regards to the diode, not the legs of the coil. Check all the other coils that board fires for easy operation and replace any others that might be melted. After you get it back up and running and the solenoids firing check the flashers too, some may be cooked.

#5026 12 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

Upon putting the CPU board back in, I plugged the ribbon cable J204 (left side of Board in backwards).

Feel you pain mate. Someone did this on an IJ just in the last week, so seems to be a common issue - because the ribbon cables are not keyed, you need to check you are connecting pin1 to pin 1, to make it easier they have a red line on the ribbon cable for pin 1.

So just to confirm all your other solenoids and flashers are working, it's just the top underplayfield diverter? In which case you need to check Q16 driver and Q8 pre-driver

#5027 12 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Feel you pain mate. Someone did this on an IJ just in the last week, so seems to be a common issue - because the ribbon cables are not keyed, you need to check you are connecting pin1 to pin 1, to make it easier they have a red line on the ribbon cable for pin 1.
So just to confirm all your other solenoids and flashers are working, it's just the top underplayfield diverter? In which case you need to check Q15 driver and Q7 pre-driver

Underplayfield diverter top, underplayfield diverter bottom, drop target up, drop target down. Gonna get out the multimeter tonight.

Thanks all!

#5028 12 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

Picard will say "Launch A Probe", and the left or right cannon will cycle through, return to home, and then the ball will load.

Your cannon home switch closure zone is too tight; the cannon has a little drift to it once it reaches home and the motor turns off. just increase the "closure zone" by having the switch close a tiny bit earlier than it does now and you should be fine.

#5029 12 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

I removed the CPU board (A-12742-50023) to throw in my Twilight Zone to troubleshoot (I fixed TZ!).

No one should be allowed own BOTH of these amazing games at the same time!

#5030 12 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

Underplayfield diverter top, underplayfield diverter bottom, drop target up, drop target down. Gonna get out the multimeter tonight.
Thanks all!

Also check if your Romulan Flashers (J3-2) and Right Ramp Flashers (J3-3) are working as well

#5031 12 days ago
Quoted from MrMikeman:

It's a piss poor design IMHO. Connecting backwards grounds all circuits which fires all coils. They could have easily had all connected to +5v instead in which case nothing would work but at least you aren't destroying circuits.

In the era this game was created it was common practice to ground all unused pins to help reduce noise from being induced on the cables; on the ribbon cable in question here nearly every other wire is grounded and is providing optimal noise suppression.

Please keep in mind the people working on these machines were ALL supposed to be certified electronics technicians.

#5032 12 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

In the era this game was created it was common practice to ground all unused pins to help reduce noise from being induced on the cables; on the ribbon cable in question here nearly every other wire is grounded and is providing optimal noise suppression.
Please keep in mind the people working on these machines were ALL supposed to be certified electronics technicians.

Agreed but in this particular case we’re not talking about a data bus. It’s a simple high/low trigger. I doubt noise could affect it much.

Also true that ppl working on these would be trained and/or experienced.

Having a keyed cable socket would also prevent that but probably would have cost a few pennies on the BOM times thousands of boards. Not many games use that expansion connector and so not worth it.

#5033 12 days ago

I had to replace the 8 power driver board also due to the tie back wire. Definitely perform the tie back wire mod/upgrade before replacing the driver board.

#5034 12 days ago
Quoted from MrMikeman:

Agreed but in this particular case we’re not talking about a data bus.

You sure?

pasted_image (resized).png
#5035 12 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

Help! I broke my ST:TNG and it’s my fault! I’m 2 weeks into troubleshooting with 2 parts orders and have not fixed it. It’s my favorite game and I’d appreciate any help I can get.
BLUF: 4 Solenoids don’t work associated with J2 on daughter 8-Driver PCB assembly after I plugged something in backwards. Put in new 8 PCB and replaced fried Solenoids, still doesn’t work.
What I did:
I removed the CPU board (A-12742-50023) to throw in my Twilight Zone to troubleshoot (I fixed TZ!). Upon putting the CPU board back in, I plugged the ribbon cable J204 (left side of Board in backwards). I turned on the machine, and after about 30 seconds smelled smoke, so turned it off, rechecked all my connections, and realized what I did. J204 connects directly to the 8 Driver PCB assembly (A-16100).
What I’ve done:
1. I left the machine alone a few hours to let smell clear, and then reseated the ribbon cable in the correct direction.
a. Upon firing up the game, the game does the thing where it cycles balls continuously trying to stage the ball for the game. Shoots into drop target, then pops ball out left side continuously.
b. Cannot start a game
c. Solenoid test reveals last 4 items in test don’t work including up/down drop target and under playfield diverters.
2. I assume I fried my A-16100 daugterboard and order a new one… wait a week and install.
a. Fire machine up, fuse F103 blows immediately. Replace fuse, same thing.
i. Unplug J connectors on 8 Driver PCB one at a time, when J2 is disconnected, fuse does not blow.
ii. Trace those wires, they lead to the 4 solenoids not firing.
iii. Disconnect the brown wife from the top underplayfield diverter and plug in J2, fuse does not blow… It must be the solenoids shorting
iv. Realize I cannot physically move the diverters associated with solenoids, order 2 new ones. Removal reveals old Solenoid completely melted. I already have a drop target in hand.
3. I install new solenoid into top underplayfield diverter. Plug in J2 into 8-Driver PCB assembly. I enter test mode and Solenoid still does not fire. So… with new 8-Driver PCB assembly and new Solenoid, test Solenoid fire does not work. I have not yet replaced the drop target and or 2nd solenoid. At a loss for what else to do to fix.
Thank you all!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Okay… I am at a loss.

This morning I replaced the bulbs in the 2 flashers (the Romulan and top right) with LED flashers, put new solenoids on both underplayfield diverters, as well as the Up/Down target. I threw in a new fuse, and entered the test mode. None of the new solenoids or flashers work (everything else still good except now phasers can’t find home… will troubleshoot later).
I popped in a new slow blow fuse, and after about 2 minutes it popped. To top it off, I smelled smoke. I shut of the machine, lifted the playfield, and the same diverter had locked on again and melted itself.
What I don’t understand is the situation that led to the melting of the solenoid was different this time. Previously when this happened I had the ribbon cable going to the mini drive board in backwards. This was not the case this time. Any ideas on why this happened and where I can go from here?

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#5036 12 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

No one should be allowed own BOTH of these amazing games at the same time!

If it makes you feel any better they have never both worked at the same time.

#5037 12 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:Okay… I am at a loss.
This morning I replaced the bulbs in the 2 flashers (the Romulan and top right) with LED flashers, put new solenoids on both underplayfield diverters, as well as the Up/Down target. I threw in a new fuse, and entered the test mode. None of the new solenoids or flashers work (everything else still good except now phasers can’t find home… will troubleshoot later).
I popped in a new slow blow fuse, and after about 2 minutes it popped. To top it off, I smelled smoke. I shut of the machine, lifted the playfield, and the same diverter had locked on again and melted itself.
What I don’t understand is the situation that led to the melting of the solenoid was different this time. Previously when this happened I had the ribbon cable going to the mini drive board in backwards. This was not the case this time. Any ideas on why this happened and where I can go from here?[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

You really need to stop just chucking parts at these problems and get much more methodical about your troubleshooting approaches. Did you test the driver transistors on the 8 driver board as we suggested? I'm going to guess you did not and that when you put the new board in with the previous melted coil it shorted said driver transistor and now that is bad (again). Also, when you are trying to solve these problems you need to be certain the coil isn't locking on again when you fire it up, that means leaving the playfield up and watching the diverter so you can quickly turn it off again if it or anything else locks on. Waiting for fuses to blow is just throwing good money, time and effort away. Now, break out that DMM and get to testing the driver transistors and replacing the shorted one(s)!

P.S. Sorry if I come across as "preachy", just trying to get your attention.

#5038 12 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

You really need to stop just chucking parts at these problems and get much more methodical about your troubleshooting approaches. Did you test the driver transistors on the 8 driver board as we suggested? I'm going to guess you did not and that when you put the new board in with the previous melted coil it shorted said driver transistor and now that is bad (again). Also, when you are trying to solve these problems you need to be certain the coil isn't locking on again when you fire it up, that means leaving the playfield up and watching the diverter so you can quickly turn it off again if it or anything else locks on. Waiting for fuses to blow is just throwing good money, time and effort away. Now, break out that DMM and get to testing the driver transistors and replacing the shorted one(s)!
P.S. Sorry if I come across as "preachy", just trying to get your attention.

I'll take any help I can get. I did get out the multi meter and look at the 8 driver board that was already out of the machine. I watched some youtube videos but I guess I really don't know what I am looking for. 7 of the 8 transistors had the same readings when tested in the same way. THowever, regardless of how the driver board tested, I was under the impression I would have to replace the solenoids, which I did. What is getting me is the condition that I thought led to the damage, the reversed ribbon cable had been corrected. I am also using a different board than I did when the ribbon cable was plugged in so don't understand how this could lead to another short of this magnitude.

Sometimes talking through this stuff can really help. In coming up with a response I think I have a mostly logical conclusion to what is going on.
Although I don't understand the readings or the logic behind them, Q16 is getting a different reading than the other Q transistors. This corresponds directly to the Solenoid that is locking on... at least in the manual. I should be able to take a part from one of the blown boards, say Q12, and replace Q16 on the board I am going to install. At the same time, I should replace the Solenoid that has been melting. From here, I should plug everything back in, turn it on with the playfield lifted, and check for smoke, smell, strange behavior from the top diverter. Assuming all goes well I should break it into test mode and check the Solenoids and two flashers. If this works, troubleshoot cannons if they are still broken (which I'm treating seperately for now).

With a logical way forward there is only one thing bothering me now. F103 is the part that has been blowing... and that is not associated with these pieces at all.

Thanks for your help and feel free to call me out.

Blowing (resized).pngFuse (resized).pngboard2 (resized).png
#5039 12 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

I'll take any help I can get. I did get out the multi meter and look at the 8 driver board that was already out of the machine. I watched some youtube videos but I guess I really don't know what I am looking for. 7 of the 8 transistors had the same readings when tested in the same way. THowever, regardless of how the driver board tested, I was under the impression I would have to replace the solenoids, which I did. What is getting me is the condition that I thought led to the damage, the reversed ribbon cable had been corrected. I am also using a different board than I did when the ribbon cable was plugged in so don't understand how this could lead to another short of this magnitude.
Sometimes talking through this stuff can really help. In coming up with a response I think I have a mostly logical conclusion to what is going on.
Although I don't understand the readings or the logic behind them, Q16 is getting a different reading than the other Q transistors. This corresponds directly to the Solenoid that is locking on... at least in the manual. I should be able to take a part from one of the blown boards, say Q12, and replace Q16 on the board I am going to install. At the same time, I should replace the Solenoid that has been melting. From here, I should plug everything back in, turn it on with the playfield lifted, and check for smoke, smell, strange behavior from the top diverter. Assuming all goes well I should break it into test mode and check the Solenoids and two flashers. If this works, troubleshoot cannons if they are still broken (which I'm treating seperately for now).
With a logical way forward there is only one thing bothering me now. F103 is the part that has been blowing... and that is not associated with these pieces at all.
Thanks for your help and feel free to call me out.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Yep, you need to take things one at a time so get the problem that's smoking your solenoid fixed first but when you power it up don't wait for smoke, watch that diverter and if it moves as soon as the game comes on turn it back off and figure out why.

F103 is for the flashers and you most likely have one of those locked on from a damaged transistor or something may have melted at the socket. Pull those flashers out of their sockets until you get the other issue fixed then see if it's still blowing the fuse with them removed. If they are / were LED flashers you may have a bad / shorted flasher LED(s). In fact I'd just leave F103 blown until you fix the diverter issue.

#5040 12 days ago

TIE-BACK is a MUST. Everything else means nothing. And don't just do the little wire down to the drop target. There are several different solutions including a jumper wire from the mini 8 driver board to the Power Driver Board. Look these up, AND DO THEM ALL. It will not hurt anything. Also, where you have TWO wires joining on a coil. Combine them to a single wire, solder them together to a single wire, and make the single wire THE CONNECT to the coil. In the event it should break off, you will only have a non working coil, not a fried board.

I fried my board AFTER thinking I had the Tie Back installed. I guess not good enough, so new coils (melted the original) and a new Rottendog 8 driver board later, I put effort into addressing the Tie-Back issue. My coil which fried was the same as yours. The is also another solution of doing redundant diodes on the coils themselves. You can to be careful to get the direction correct if you do that. Williams relocated the diodes to the driver board, and in years later would go back to having them on the coils again.

Sounds like a lot of hype, overkill, and worry....but it's not. When you hear the sound of a coil locked on, see the smoke and feel the heat, it's WAY TOO LATE

#5041 12 days ago

TIE BACK issue and fried boards. NOTE: Williams put some flashers and led controls on the Mini 8 Driver board (I don't know why).
So, until you address fixing the Tie Back issue, some of your flashers and playfield leds and NOT going to work, and you will continue to blow fuses

#5042 12 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

TIE-BACK is a MUST. Everything else means nothing. And don't just do the little wire down to the drop target. There are several different solutions including a jumper wire from the mini 8 driver board to the Power Driver Board. Look these up, AND DO THEM ALL. It will not hurt anything. Also, where you have TWO wires joining on a coil. Combine them to a single wire, solder them together to a single wire, and make the single wire THE CONNECT to the coil. In the event it should break off, you will only have a non working coil, not a fried board.
I fried my board AFTER thinking I had the Tie Back installed. I guess not good enough, so new coils (melted the original) and a new Rottendog 8 driver board later, I put effort into addressing the Tie-Back issue. My coil which fried was the same as yours. The is also another solution of doing redundant diodes on the coils themselves. You can to be careful to get the direction correct if you do that. Williams relocated the diodes to the driver board, and in years later would go back to having them on the coils again.
Sounds like a lot of hype, overkill, and worry....but it's not. When you hear the sound of a coil locked on, see the smoke and feel the heat, it's WAY TOO LATE

Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

TIE BACK issue and fried boards. NOTE: Williams put some flashers and led controls on the Mini 8 Driver board (I don't know why).
So, until you address fixing the Tie Back issue, some of your flashers and playfield leds and NOT going to work, and you will continue to blow fuses

Gotcha,

Before doing anything else I will be adding a connection from J4, pin 1 of the 8PCB board to the J107 pin 1 of the PCB board completing the "tieback" mod as described here. https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation

Thanks!

715px-8DriverModPinWiki1 (resized).png
#5043 12 days ago

Perfect. And you found one of the good references. Great. If you dig around, you will find references to the other items I mentioned. I think I did a total of 4 or 5 of them. I suffer from OCD, and not proud of it. I even installed the diodes (correct direction) although that is likely overkill.

I thank all the members of this fantastic STTNG Blog for all the information shared. This information came from your contributions to the information resource. Some things like the Tie Back Mod are UNIQUE to the STTNG machine, although some of the practices of combining wiring pairs is good advice no matter the situation.
Rock On

#5044 12 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

Gotcha,
Before doing anything else I will be adding a connection from J4, pin 1 of the 8PCB board to the J107 pin 1 of the PCB board completing the "tieback" mod as described here. https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation
Thanks!
[quoted image]

I thought I had read you'd already done this mod but I guess I'm thinking of someone else, sorry about missing that as this is step #1 for any STTNG machine you acquire or work on.

#5045 12 days ago

Some people get excited about putting toppers on machines, or toys in the pinball. That's cool, I do too. HOWEVER, you have a 27 year old machine! And unless someone with OCD has maintained the machine over the years, you WILL have issues, especially with STTNG. It's NOT a beginner machine to work on.
Replace BOTH cannon looms - Just do it
Know you will have Opto problems, clean or replace them ( I did all of them)
Know the machine has divit issues in the ball trough, where balls get stuck. Don't do the insert, it doesn't work. You will or should likely install on new one

Look up the Williams Tech bulletin parts 1,2 and 3 about things to do BEFORE playing and using your game. Original boards are going to have heat damage and broken solder joints around the high power connector (burned). You ignoring the problem to buy toys for the game, is like not servicing the car engine because the fussy dice look cool

Get the old bulbs OUT, and get the LEDS, the power savings and reduced heat alone is manditory

and just LOOK through the machine underside, and see if something looks out of place. Example. Wire hanging loose, it shouldn't be.

Also look at the wiring on the Drop Target at the bottom of the playfield, certainly a problem area.

You have a Collectable, Classic Car you have no idea about it's maintenance history, so ASSUME it's got none, and provide tons of TLC

#5046 11 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

What I don’t understand is the situation that led to the melting of the solenoid was different this time. Previously when this happened I had the ribbon cable going to the mini drive board in backwards. This was not the case this time. Any ideas on why this happened and where I can go from here?[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Reversed cable —> melted/shorted coils and fried/shorted transistors

Then you replaced the board but:

Shorted coils —> fried/shorted transistors on new board

Then you replaced the coils but:

Fried/shorted transistors —> melted/shorted coils

You have to replace all blown components or you will keep blowing the new stuff you put in.

As others have said u need to be on the power switch. Ready to power off immediately when/if a coil locks on. Playfield up so you can see it/hear it.

#5047 11 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

Williams put some flashers and led controls on the Mini 8 Driver board (I don't know why).

The why is easy, Williams packed so much into this game that there was no where elso to add more flashers since every solenoid control on the Power driver board were already used elsewhere; its the same reason that the spinner isn't on the switch matrix but is instead is connected to the flipper 4 EOS switch on the Flextronics board, there was literarily no other open switch spot left on the switch matrix to add another a switch. Yes, I really do know everything about this machine

#5048 11 days ago

May I suggest something simple. You are NOT ready to power your game on yet. Read the suggested stuff (You need to translate to English) but this is the BIBLE of repair.
NOTE: There is a list of stuff to do, BEFORE ever powering up a 27 year old game. This LINK, is a 3 PART series. Tons of information, photos ect. Read ALL 3.
and there isn't any shame in the game, to call for help from someone locally.

Be honest everyone, we all have, so no shame to do that. However READ and absorb all of this cool stuff.
http://steffe.net/stuff/flipper/PINBALL%20%20Repair%20Williams,%20Bally%20Pinball%20Games%201990-1999%20part%20one.htm

#5049 11 days ago

All right. Got the old Q16 out and the new one in. It tests the same as the other ones to other points on the board. It is ugly, but correct. This part of the tie back is ready. Will hook into j107, replace blown solenoid, and do a brief turn on tomorrow morning with the playfield up. Thanks all!

20210115_202729 (resized).jpg
#5050 11 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

May I suggest something simple. You are NOT ready to power your game on yet. Read the suggested stuff (You need to translate to English) but this is the BIBLE of repair.
NOTE: There is a list of stuff to do, BEFORE ever powering up a 27 year old game. This LINK, is a 3 PART series. Tons of information, photos ect. Read ALL 3.
and there isn't any shame in the game, to call for help from someone locally.
Be honest everyone, we all have, so no shame to do that. However READ and absorb all of this cool stuff.
http://steffe.net/stuff/flipper/PINBALL%20%20Repair%20Williams,%20Bally%20Pinball%20Games%201990-1999%20part%20one.htm

Might be easier reading the English version of Clay's guide .... they are still floating around out there.

That said I think Pinwiki is pretty good these days https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC

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