(Topic ID: 194800)

STTNG - One row of switch matrix out.

By SideTrackTap

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

So, thanks to this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/100-sttng-fix-me-challenge-experienced-techs-only, I have gotten to this point. However, I need input/confirmation from the pros here on Pinside that my bridge rectifier(s) are indeed bad.

Quick history: The game has not been used in years. I had grand plans of stripping the playfield and doing a ground-up resto but it just never happened. The only thing that did happen was the installing of a Color DMD. Conceding to my procrastination and laziness, I just decide to get the game playable again. Once I got everything back in (I had removed the playfield) and hooked up, I fired her up. Everything seemed fine except it was continually trying to launch balls.

After diagnosis, I realized row 6 on the switch matrix is out. Of those are the optics for trough #1, under left hole, and under left gun sw. I'm pretty that's why the game was continually launching balls.

After reading through the above thread, I did the test in post #2 from zaza and came up with these numbers:

1= 6.0 mV
2= 13.7 mV
3= 17.8 mV
4= 10.3 mV

I guess they should all read 460 mV? Given that and my weird readings am I to assume my BR is bad?

My game's characteristics were very similar to others that were solved with BR replacements. Also, from other reading, it seems adding a Color DMD can cause power problems on the STTNG.

Am on the right path? Should more tests be made? Thanks in advance for any help.

Chris

#3 6 years ago

Thanks for the reply @pin_guy.

Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I would check J209 pin 7 on your CPU board, it should have a white-blue wire attached to this pin, with the game in switch edge test, give it a wiggle and see if you have any change; if not, try moving the connector from J209 to J208 and see if anything changes.

Nothing changed when I wiggled the white/blue wire or when I moved the connector to J208.

Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I'm not sure I trust the validity of those numbers. Are you seeing issues with your controlled lamps and additional switch matrix problems other than on row 6? What do you measure on your 12VR and 18V test points?

I don't see any issues with controlled lamps; they all seem to be functioning in test modes and attract mode - flashers too. The rest of the matrix seems ok too. 12VR = 11.97V and 18V = 17.99V.

One thing I've noticed is the white/blue wire for that line 6 on the matrix seems to be reading at about 11V (on the playfield) and it tends to fluctuate a little. Could there be anything with that. Maybe I have a short somewhere?

Chris

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Chris,
I don't think you are on the right track.
Take a look here. There is an outstanding zaza diagram to help you trace the logic.
Is the entire row out?
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Yes, the entire row 6 is out. Thanks Chris. I'll have to try this tomorrow night and report back as soon as I can.

Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Unfortunately you can't really check this signal check with a volt meter, even with all columns pulled low the row wire will be held high 75% of the time. I would have to say based on the readings you provided that there is nothing wrong with your bridge rectifier.

Ok, was just an idea. I should add, I don't believe there is any corrosion from battery leakage on the CPU board. But I haven't had it off to examine the back. That's probably something I need to check and maybe eliminate.

Thanks guys for the help. I'll report back as soon as I can.

Chris

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

A quick check you can make to isolate the problem to either your playfield or MPU, is to grab one of your switch column signals and toss it directly onto the switch row input to the MPU, you can accomplish this by placing a jumper wire between J206-9 or J207-9 (Column 8 drive) and either J208-7 or J209-7 (Switch Row 6) while monitoring the switch edge test. If you see switch 86 activate, your MPU board is likely ok. If nothing happens then the problem is likely on the MPU, make a very close inspection of the connections to U19 as this is the most likely component to cause all switches in row 6 to fail.

Well guys, let me first say I apologize for wasting your time. @pin_guy, as I was looking for the test points you mentioned above, I noticed damage on the board from the batteries. This thing sat for some time, and although I though I got the batteries out in time, clearly I did not. I didn't notice it until I got really close tonight.

In addition, I did try the test you mentioned above and no-go. Most assuredly it's due to the battery damage.

Needless to say, I'm pretty mad at myself. I'm not an expert within this hobby by any means, but I know the potential for batteries leaking and reeking havoc and I let it happen anyway.

See the attached picture. I can only imagine what the back looks like, but I'll try and get the board removed tonight.

Depending on how bad it is, is it repairable? I see Rottendog replacements for about $150. I'm tempted to go that route.

Thanks again for your help.

Chris

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#9 6 years ago

The back of the board is actually fine. Here's a little closer picture of front with more light.

IMG_6552 (resized).JPGIMG_6552 (resized).JPG

IMG_6553 (resized).JPGIMG_6553 (resized).JPG

#10 6 years ago

I've spoken with Rob at Pinball Classics and it probably could be repaired, but possibly at nearly the same or more cost than a new board, so it looks like I'll go the route of a new board.

Chris

3 weeks later
#12 6 years ago

Thanks again for all the help with this. New board in and she's playing just like new.

Chris

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