(Topic ID: 234478)

STTNG: Left Cannon / Left Ball Lock Issue (Yeah, I tried that)

By bibbster

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by bibbster
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 5 years ago

    Hey gang! So I have poured over the forum and have tried several things in order to resolve this issue, but I have yet to 'pin' it down. I'll list the things I have done so far, and hope I don't forget one as there have been many, so hopefully we don't have to beat the dead horse known as #STTNG Opto Issues.

    What the game is doing currently:
    With the game turned on, I drop 6 balls in the trough. The game loads a ball to the right cannon, then a ball to the left cannon, and then attempts to load to the left lock. Instead of that happening, it cycles the third ball to the left cannon, making two balls at the left cannon. The cycle repeats since there is yet to be a ball in the left lock. I eject all six balls from the game, turn it off, and manually stage a ball at each cannon as well as the left lock. I then turn the game on and the game is ready to play. Game play is normal until a ball is to be locked in the left lock. The ball goes into the subway to be locked, but then the game searches for a ball, cycling several coils and such and fails the first time. It tries again, this time cycling the right upper flipper followed by the left cannon coil, then mysteriously this 'missing' ball appears from the left lock, where it thinks it isn't, and into the habitrail. This sequence of searching for a ball will occur every time a ball is to be locked. It seems like the left cannon switch 1 isn't registering the ball, though I know it is based on the below info, so it tries to send a second ball there instead of to the left lock.

    Here are things I have done:

    1. Verified all Opto emitters are visually working using a digital camera.
    2. Verified all Opto emitters are getting voltage with the game on and coin door open in test mode (~1.37V).
    3. verified all Opto emitters are clean using 91% isopropyl alcohol.
    4. Verified all Opto receivers are getting voltage with the game on and coin door open in test mode (closed circuit ~.18V, open circuit 9.8V).
    5. Verified 12V at T1 with game on and coin door open in test mode (actually 14.28V).
    6. Verified each Opto works in test mode Switch T3.
    7. Verified that all diverter coils work in Coil Test.
    8. Verified that all diverters move freely.
    9. I reflowed solder on all the Opto circuit boards, including the Opto PCB Assembly.
    10. I tested each resitor, dioded, etc. and found one resistor on the Opto PCB to reading a little low, R23, so I replaced it.
    11. Seated each wire in its connector a bit more.

    I took a pic of the switch matrix with no balls in the game, first pic, as well as with all 6 balls where they are supposed to be, second pic. It looks okay to me but maybe I am missing something?

    I think that is everything I've done to this point. Needless to say, I feel like there are Klingons on the starboard bow and Jim isn't here to get them off. :/ Any help is appreciated. I'm also willing to do more tests, take pics, vids, etc. to figure this out.

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    #2 5 years ago

    The diverter that stages the "left ball lock" is likely out of alignment just enough to not allow the ball to go where it needs.

    This often happens when the coil locks on and is replaced. The assembly is disassembled and put back together slightly off. I'm definitely not saying you did this, just that it's happened to this game in its life and needs to be corrected.

    You need to get a camera situated in such a way to catch the diverter trying to stage the ball to see how it's failing. I've also lifted the playfield up above the cabinet to get a look at how the diverter is failing, but this is *very* difficult to do. This is probably the heaviest playfield Williams produced. A couple of 2x4s, and a couple of strong friends to lift the playfield and place the 2x4s will be needed.

    The idea is to get a visual on when the diverter is trying to stage the ball to see what needs to happen to align things properly.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #3 5 years ago

    Hi Rob, it's good to hear from you. Been a long time since I met you at the Heartland show.

    The diverter appears to be working just fine. It actually activates well before the ball gets to it. You can see in the vid below that the game diverts the first ball to the right cannon, then the second to the left cannon, then the third again to the left cannon. Something is telling that diverter to send a second ball to the left cannon.

    #4 5 years ago

    I had this problem, my diverters were working fine, but like Rob said, the diverter was not aligned correctly and the ball would get hung up on the diverter/subway edge, and not got the right way, and then when the diverter disengaged the ball would continue down the subway.

    #5 5 years ago
    Quoted from bibbster:

    I took a pic of the switch matrix with no balls in the game, first pic, as well as with all 6 balls where they are supposed to be, second pic.

    Your pictures are out of order as the second picture shows no balls blocking any of the optos (closed). You also have two obvious failures of mechanical switches 17 and 25 (stuck closed).

    Quoted from bibbster:

    Something is telling that diverter to send a second ball to the left cannon.

    One of two things is happening, 1) the diverter that sends the ball to the left cannon is getting stuck and not returning properly due to mis-alignment, gummed up mechanism, bad return spring, or melted coil sleeve; or 2) The ball getting sent to the left cannon isn't seen being seen due to a malfunctioning opto (sw36), but this is clearly not the case since all three ball stages are clearly show as open in picture 1 and closed in picture 2 verifying they are working as intended.

    My expert opinion is that this is either a mechanical issue of the lower subway coil, or an electrical issue caused by a locked on drive transistor on the 8 driver board (you should be able to hear this).

    Additional information: I am not able to access your video. There is a ton of information on this type issue as well as many other informational nuggets in the STTNG owners forum, IMO every owner of STTNG should take a look through these posts.

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Your pictures are out of order as the second picture shows no balls blocking any of the optos (closed). You also have two obvious failures of mechanical switches 17 and 25 (stuck closed).

    Good catch! In my haste to load pics I failed to reorder them. I'll leave it alone as to not confuse any future readers of this thread. I have fixed switches 17 and 25. It was on my list but not as high a priority as this issue.

    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    My expert opinion is that this is either a mechanical issue of the lower subway coil, or an electrical issue caused by a locked on drive transistor on the 8 driver board (you should be able to hear this).

    I don't think it is the coil. It activates every time it is asked to either in test, manually, or with the balls in the game. The upper diverter moves out of the way every single time instead of only to load the left cannon. Something is telling it that there is no ball in the left cannon even though there is.

    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Additional information: I am not able to access your video. There is a ton of information on this type issue as well as many other informational nuggets in the STTNG owners forum, IMO every owner of STTNG should take a look through these posts.

    Try accessing the video now. I think I have fixed the link. I have scoured dozens of posts about this same or similar issue and I have tried everything, including many in the STTNG Owners forum. I only started this thread because I am at a loss. This is the last thing that needs fixed on this pin, and of course it is a pretty important one. I appreciate the input and help thus far.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from bibbster:

    Try accessing the video now.

    Ahhh I see whats happening now, thanks for the new link. This is indeed very odd behavior given the switch matrix pictures. I'm sure you tried a lot of things but I have to ask this...have you pulled your processor and pressed down on your ASIC on a flat surface, and have you tried reversing both ends of the ribbon cable that goes to the 8-driver board?

    #8 5 years ago

    I have reseated the ASIC as well as all the plugs and cables. Even went as far as testing diodes, resistors, etc., and reflowing solder. However...GOOD NEWS! I figured it out yesterday afternoon. See if you guys can figure it out from the picture below. I know I shouldn't have assumed, but I'd like to get hold of the guy that worked on this pin last. There were several 'DOH! Why did someone do that?!' moments.

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    #9 5 years ago

    OMG...they put the VUKs in the wrong spots. I had considered the possibilities of them having connectors swapped, but the thought of them being physically wrong never occurred to me. The dead giveaway is the cardboard insulator that should be in between the 2 VUK's ... not to mention 4 pairs of optos on your Left cannon VUK

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    #10 5 years ago

    Yep! I completely overlooked that at least a half dozen times. I finally broke out the manual and was comparing wired colors to be sure all was good and that is when I noticed it. Game is playing great now. Go figure. lol

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