(Topic ID: 74698)

STTNG just went crazy

By Arcadegarage

10 years ago


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#1 10 years ago

My STTNG has never worked properly since I got it last year. I've worked on it off and on and can't seem to get anywhere. Some new problems came up today on top of the old ones unfortunately.

-flashers do not work. I changed br3-4 and 1 of the caps (I only had one cap so I forget the number but it was the top cap that I replaced). Did not fix the issue.

-when I put the board back in, the game started going haywire. It sounded like the game was in test mode with all the upkicks looking for a ball. It kicks the balls to the shooter and stages all the balls in the pf. When you start a game, it won't kick out any ball to the shooter, both guns constantly activate, and then the dmd freezes on Light Lock. Never had this happen before.

-in the coil test, the left flipper power and hold work, but the right and upper flipper only go through the power test ok (no hold). However, when you play the game all flippers flip and hold...just weakly.

-game constantly locks a ball when entering the subway. I cleaned the optos and they register. One seems like it easily falls out of alignment. Cleaning and realigning didnt fix.

Video...ugh:

#2 10 years ago

Double ck your connectors for the board you took out. Make sure no connectors are in the wrong place or off by one pin. After confirming that, I would go into switch test mode and ck all ball trough switches and the upper mini-trough, and the locks under both cannons. Also ck for proper diverter action on the subway ramp.

#3 10 years ago

If the problem arose after re-installing a board you worked on then that is where I would start. As LOTR said, check all of the connectors, and then check your board work for correct component orientation, shorts, bad connections. Check across board and through-hole connectivity.

#4 10 years ago

-flashers do not work. I changed br3-4 and 1 of the caps (I only had one cap so I forget the number but it was the top cap that I replaced). Did not fix the issue.

Did you diagnose the bridges, or are you shot-gunning your game with parts? It is bested to diagnose the parts first.

-when I put the board back in, the game started going haywire. It sounded like the game was in test mode with all the upkicks looking for a ball. It kicks the balls to the shooter and stages all the balls in the pf. When you start a game, it won't kick out any ball to the shooter, both guns constantly activate, and then the dmd freezes on Light Lock. Never had this happen before.

Inspect each and every switch in the switch matrix, in test mode.
Report back *all* switches that are not working correctly.

-in the coil test, the left flipper power and hold work, but the right and upper flipper only go through the power test ok (no hold). However, when you play the game all flippers flip and hold...just weakly.

Loss of hold mode in test is common, with warn parts. You can still play games. Time to rebuild the flipper assemblies, and reflow the coil lugs while you are there. In spect voltage at the coils, and look for broken wires inside the plastic wire casing.

-game constantly locks a ball when entering the subway. I cleaned the optos and they register. One seems like it easily falls out of alignment. Cleaning and realigning didnt fix.

Again, inspect every switch, in the game. If the game software mistakenly 'think's it has seen a ball somewhere else, it will behave strangely.

2 years later
#5 7 years ago

Revisiting my STTNG. This time I'm serious. No giving up! Here are some results:

Left cannon home and mark switch closed

Right cannon home and mark switch closed

Both diverters test fine and get correct action

Solenoid bracket under Borg ship mangled, leaf switch fell off. Bracket reshaped. Need to replace switch.

All connectors in correct spots

Z-connector reseated

J118 controls the under pf opto board. It's getting 15V in the head but 0V at the opto board underneath the pf which leads me to believe there is a break in the wire. No visible breaks noticeable. Will have to cut wire at select points, create jumper, and heat shrink.

I'm betting the wire break and the Borg bracket not allowing the stop to stay up is causing the majority of the playability problems.

The flashers I have no idea about.

Here are some driver board readings at the test points:

TP1 (12V getting 15.1) OK?
TP2 (5V getting 4.91) OK?
TP3 (12V getting 12.1) OK
TP6 (50V getting 73.5) High
TP7 (20V getting 0.86) No Flashers
TP8 (18V getting 18.0) OK

Any problem with any of these voltages being too high for the TP's?

#6 7 years ago

Voltages are ok except for TP7 being it is pretty much zero.

Do all the fuses on the power driver board measure ok?
You can swap the T2 power driver board into STTNG to see if all the issues you are having are only related to that board.

#7 7 years ago

Just to reconfirm, TP6 is ok with that big of a voltage difference? 24V seems like a lot but I'm ignorant to this.

I'll check the fuses. None of them were visibly blown. All measured ok connectivity when inside the fuse holders.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from Arcadegarage:

Just to reconfirm, TP6 is ok with that big of a voltage difference? 24V

Yes, that is normal for TP6 to be about 74 volts.

Quoted from Arcadegarage:-flashers do not work. I changed br3-4 and 1 of the caps (I only had one cap so I forget the number but it was the top cap that I replaced). Did not fix the issue.

I would pull out F111 and measure it off the board.
Which capacitor specifically?
I think if the F111 is good, then you may have damaged a pad/feedthrough on the board at BR4.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I think if the F111 is good, then you may have damaged a pad/feedthrough on the board at BR4.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-does-not-have-any-flashers#post-2240886

#10 7 years ago

TP6 at 73 volts is fine. Same as mine. Did you measure TP7 with the coin door closed? That circuit (flashers/solenoids) is unpowered unless the door is closed.

The TP2 might be a little low. When I replaced capacitor C4 (100uF 10v axial) it bumped the voltage up by 0.1 volts. If you are replacing other things you might consider replacing this too. (The old cap tested at 16uF and ESR > 40 ohms).

TP1 is high UNLESS nothing is attached to the circuit (optos, motors). It's unregulated, so the voltage will drop when there is more current being drawn, but it shouldn't drop much below 12 volts even with the optos attached and motors in motion. Mine was around 14.3 volts with J116, J117, J118 disconnected. I'm guess you have things disconnected too?

#11 7 years ago

Swap the board with the T2 in your collection. If that works, then send the old piece to Clive. For $85 bucks, it will save you a ton of time and you will get a great product back.

1 month later
#12 7 years ago

Been getting through this. Found several things that needed attention.

-J106 was left disconnected. Noticed it when installing the ColorDMD. Somehow that got missed and that's why the opto boards weren't getting power. We traced the wire all the way back and thought there was a break somewhere between the head and under the pf. Turns out, it was just a connector. How embarassing but at least it was a simple fix!
-flippers needed to be rebuilt and new coil at the upper flipper so I can pull off the Picard Maneuver.
-bracket for Borg drop target (under the pf behind the ship) was mangled like somebody dropped the pf and destroyed the bracket so we had to put it in a vice and rebend it. The leaf switch was broken off also so we replaced. That's why it was constantly going into Borg multiball.
-optos in the subway needed to be realigned and cleaned
-upper diverter was gunked up & rusty causing the diverter to get stuck. Took it apart and cleaned & greased it with a light oil oer the owner's manual. Works fine.
-switch under the Romulan ship had the leaf come off. Had to take off the plastics and ramps and fix.

Haven't fixed the 20V flasher problem yet, so that's next if I can figure it out.

Game is awesome. That ColorDMD, especially in STTNG, is a must.

After we get it going better it'll be time for the 4 ship mods, pingraffix sideboard decals, extended lane guides and some cliffy's.

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