STTNG issues after 300 mile trip

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
yeah... t18 is supposed to empty the lower playfield right? You just go to it and hit enter? Cuz mine doesn’t do shit.

You have to bypass the high power interlock by pressing it in; this game didn't come with "pull-out to bypass" interlock switches.

#54 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

Quoted from Phatchit:
I would also buy a new set of wiring harnesses as aback up for the two launch mechs , these tend to go bad over the years as well did to the back and forth movement and old stiff wires .

Lowest price on these can be found on ebay:
ebay.com link: itm

#55 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
My best advice to you is to become familiar with your switch matrix test (T1)
This is what the switch matrix should look like after castration (balls removed)[quoted image]

Looks like 66 is open despite nothing being in the trough there. Cleaned it and no change so I think I’ll just buy a new one. Any recommendations on where to get one?

#56 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
Looks like 66 is open despite nothing being in the trough there. Cleaned it and no change so I think I’ll just buy a new one. Any recommendations on where to get one?

wiggle the connector pin the photo transistor board, if the switch closes then it's a problem with the header or connector, if nothing happens then it's likely just a bad IR LED which is repairable.

#57 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
wiggle the connector pin the photo transistor board, if the switch closes then it's a problem with the header or connector, if nothing happens then it's likely just a bad IR LED which is repairable.

connector wiggled, no luck...

Also it looks like I can reproduce the error when I lock 2 balls under the left lock - then there’s only one ball left in play and it just launches it endlessly (probably because 66 is showing open even though it’s closed.)

Didn’t happen the first two games I played today but did the third time

#58 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
Also it looks like I can reproduce the error when I lock 2 balls under the left lock - then there’s only one ball left in play and it just launches it endlessly (probably because 66 is showing open even though it’s closed.)

Exactly correct.

If it were me, I would measure the voltage drop across all of the IR LEDs. A reading of around 1.5V is good, 12V is bad, 0V is worse.
pasted_image (resized).png

A lot of folks out there will suggest removing this board and looking at the LEDs with a camera so you can see the IR LEDs glow, and I have to admit there is a certain amount of coolness in this, especially if you've never done it before; however, it takes less than a minute to make all 7 measurements and in reality you can just place the black lead on any ground point and just move the red lead to take all 7 measurements.

1 week later

#59 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
Exactly correct.
If it were me, I would measure the voltage drop across all of the IR LEDs. A reading of around 1.5V is good, 12V is bad, 0V is worse.
[quoted image]
A lot of folks out there will suggest removing this board and looking at the LEDs with a camera so you can see the IR LEDs glow, and I have to admit there is a certain amount of coolness in this, especially if you've never done it before; however, it takes less than a minute to make all 7 measurements and in reality you can just place the black lead on any ground point and just move the red lead to take all 7 measurements.

The problem persists and is super intermittent - I know it happens when there’s only supposed to be one ball in “play” and so when it kicks that last ball out to play and the sensor goes “open” the game goes nuts and keeps trying to kick it out.

I just bought an entirely new set of sensors yesterday so fingers crossed this is the last big hiccup for a while - I wanna learn this game!! lol

#60 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Trough optos are changed, no more random unlimited ball launches since.

Finished my flipper rebuilds too - quick question:

I read somewhere that the hole in the playfield should be visible at the back edge of the flipper, a friend thinks it should be centered. Which is accurate for STTNG? I wanna make sure it’s set appropriately.

Pic below is how I thought it should look

A9FD3FE3-8EB6-4E05-9E62-72D75D9C32EA (resized).jpeg

#61 4 years ago

ABC

arakissun

Pinside member

Varna

12y 63,650 1,995

Yes this is the correct position.

#62 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
I read somewhere that the hole in the playfield should be visible at the back edge of the flipper, a friend thinks it should be centered.

In reality the best adjustment for this game is to ignore the hole completely and just put a straight edge along the inlane ball rail and then adjust the flipper (with rubber installed) so that its flush to the straight edge.

Bally Williams games were designed to have the back edge of the flipper (without rubber) aligned to the pin that goes in the hole.

Stern games have the hole out further and you align the center of the flipper to that hole.

#63 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
The problem persists and is super intermittent - I know it happens when there’s only supposed to be one ball in “play” and so when it kicks that last ball out to play and the sensor goes “open” the game goes nuts and keeps trying to kick it out.

I've worked on a set of optos like that before ... what I found was someone replaced three of the IR LEDs and broke the thru holes on all three; this was causing intermittent connections and was difficult to find.

#64 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
In reality the best adjustment for this game is to ignore the hole completely and just put a straight edge along the inlane ball rail and then adjust the flipper (with rubber installed) so that its flush to the straight edge.
Bally Williams games were designed to have the back edge of the flipper (without rubber) aligned to the pin that goes in the hole.
Stern games have the hole out further and you align the center of the flipper to that hole.

Good to know! I’ll give that a try. Same for the upper flipper? Or just keep the back edge against the wall with rubber on?

#65 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
Good to know! I’ll give that a try. Same for the upper flipper?

Exactly the same, you may have to bend the ball guide rail to get it to align perfectly. When its properly aligned there will be zero ball hop on those time you let the ball ride by; and will be against the flipper when you go for the Delta Ramp; this is the single most important alignment for consistantly making the Delta Ramp shot.

#66 4 years ago

TAL

Tallon

Pinside member

Schofield, WI

9y 66,550 1,243 16

Yes, the best thing to do to align flipper is to run a straight edge down the inlane and set it that way. The guides can have some wiggle room in them so using he pins can actually cause the flippers to be completely out of adjustment. Like everything in pinball, play is more important then where it’s alligned.

#67 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

The game has been playing great - gonna align the flippers and install full LEDs today (have some spare GI sockets for the ones that don’t seem to want to work too)

Does anyone have a link to photos/video of an STTNG with Pinstadium on it? I’m thinking it’s gonna be an impossible/tight fit with that launch ramp running along the right side but if this set of LEDs doesn’t light the game then I’m gonna seriously consider picking up a set today before the sale ends.

#68 4 years ago

MIK

MrMikeman

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OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
Does anyone have a link to photos/video of an STTNG with Pinstadium on it? I’m thinking it’s gonna be an impossible/tight fit with that launch ramp running along the right side but if this set of LEDs doesn’t light the game then I’m gonna seriously consider picking up a set today before the sale ends.

It's a tight fit but it does fit (but not with the hovers). Here's a few pics with different shades/colors. TOTALLY worth it with STTNG. I play it in total darkness all the time with the white light set at 20% brightness and it's more than enough.

Cheers,

Mike

IMG-0764 (resized).jpg

IMG-0765 (resized).jpg

IMG-0766 (resized).jpg

IMG-0768 (resized).jpg

#69 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from MrMikeman:
It's a tight fit but it does fit (but not with the hovers). Here's a few pics with different shades/colors. TOTALLY worth it with STTNG. I play it in total darkness all the time with the white light set at 20% brightness and it's more than enough.
Cheers,
Mike[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

thinking of getting the one with the frosted lenses to avoid the reflection of the LEDs on the metal ramps - worth it? do they distract you like that?

#70 4 years ago

MIK

MrMikeman

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And here is the "BEFORE" picture...

IMG-0763 (resized).jpg

#71 4 years ago

MIK

MrMikeman

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OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
thinking of getting the one with the frosted lenses to avoid the reflection of the LEDs on the metal ramps - worth it? do they distract you like that?

For some reason they seem SUPER distracting in pictures but in reality you don't see the striping when you play.

I have the frosted ones on my JP. They are good too but they only do white (and UV flasher). What I like about the original is that you can set an RGB color. I like my STTNG to be a bit blue/purplish. I have the UV flasher hooked up to the left VUK.

Mike

#72 4 years ago

BOB

bobukcat

Pinside member

9y 99,550 5,462

Quoted from MrMikeman:
For some reason they seem SUPER distracting in pictures but in reality you don't see the striping when you play.
I have the frosted ones on my JP. They are good too but they only do white (and UV flasher). What I like about the original is that you can set an RGB color. I like my STTNG to be a bit blue/purplish. I have the UV flasher hooked up to the left VUK.
Mike

Agreed, I have them on mine and if the stripes really bother you setting the colored LED strips to off or just white will pretty much eliminate the striping effect on the wireform. I don't know how the diffusers would fit on the right had side though the invisishields do fit in there. I like it with a little bit of blue dialed-in and the UV-Glow flasher tied to the flasher on the right of the backboard.

(please excuse the camera trying to compensate, it looks much better in person)

#73 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Two “dumb questions”

1) is there a 110/120v service plug in this machine? It’s not where it is in T2 so I don’t know where to look lol

2) see photo below: both the red X GI bulbs are out on both sides but that middle green circle GI bulb is lit both sides. Maybe I’m not understanding the wiring chart so I’ll just ask: do these share a wire that I’m not noticing on the chart? If so, which connection(s) should I check? Manually or with a multimeter?

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#74 4 years ago

???

pinmike

Inactive member

Bossier City, LA

13y 56,600 5,368

Question 1. Yes it should be in the cabinet on the right side near the coin door.

Question 2. Look at the lamp chart and see if those inserts are in the same wiring in that column.When looking at chart it will show you column and row.Go by the column not row

#75 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from pinmike:
Question 1. Yes it should be in the cabinet on the right side near the coin door.
Question 2. Look at the lamp chart and see if those inserts are in the same wiring in that column.When looking at chart it will show you column and row.Go by the column not row

1) on that metal box to the right just inside the coin door? Yeah, I don’t see a plug there anywhere cuz that’s where it is on T2. I’ll take a pic tomorrow unless someone wants to post a pic of theirs and direct me to it.

2) it doesn’t look like the return lanes share a column but they do share a row? But it literally lists “left return lane” and “right return lane” so idk if that is the inlay INSIDE those lanes or the GI lighting those lanes. Either way why would one light and not the other. I also see no listing for the left or right slingshot (or kicker I’ve heard it called) so that just confuses me because there ARE bulbs there.

#76 4 years ago

MIK

MrMikeman

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OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
1) on that metal box to the right just inside the coin door? Yeah, I don’t see a plug there anywhere cuz that’s where it is on T2. I’ll take a pic tomorrow unless someone wants to post a pic of theirs and direct me to it.
2) it doesn’t look like the return lanes share a column but they do share a row? But it literally lists “left return lane” and “right return lane” so idk if that is the inlay INSIDE those lanes or the GI lighting those lanes. Either way why would one light and not the other. I also see no listing for the left or right slingshot (or kicker I’ve heard it called) so that just confuses me because there ARE bulbs there.

If your machine is a re-import it will NOT have the plug. You can order one and install it yourself in the metal box. It goes where the round black rubber cover is.

GI lamps are not on the light matrix. Your bulbs are burnt or the sockets are not making good contact. Wiggle the bulbs. Or swap with a working one to test.

#77 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from MrMikeman:
If your machine is a re-import it will NOT have the plug. You can order one and install it yourself in the metal box. It goes where the round black rubber cover is.
GI lamps are not on the light matrix. Your bulbs are burnt or the sockets are not making good contact. Wiggle the bulbs. Or swap with a working one to test.

DEFINITELY a re-import so that explains it.

Yeah, I’ve changed bulbs so I guess it’s bad sockets but it’s SOO ODD that it is symmetrical

#78 4 years ago

MIK

MrMikeman

Pinside+ Pro!

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
DEFINITELY a re-import so that explains it.
Yeah, I’ve changed bulbs so I guess it’s bad sockets but it’s SOO ODD that it is symmetrical

You can check the ac voltage on the back of the socket. Should be about 6vac. If it’s zero then follow both chains of wires. Unsoldered or broken at some point.

#79 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

All lights changed out finally... I still have to go through the wiring to figure out what’s going on with the ones I posted about (and a few others that I suspect may be on the same line) but she looks 1000% better already.

Thank you everyone for all the help, I couldn’t have gotten this far without you

461F9696-63B9-4E3B-91C2-D93B2AD1FA66 (resized).jpeg

3 weeks later

#80 4 years ago

R00

r00DVM

Inactive member

Quoted from MrMikeman:
If your machine is a re-import it will NOT have the plug. You can order one and install it yourself in the metal box. It goes where the round black rubber cover is.
GI lamps are not on the light matrix. Your bulbs are burnt or the sockets are not making good contact. Wiggle the bulbs. Or swap with a working one to test.

Any links to where I could get a kit or what it is called? I’d like to get a service plug installed and it’s time for a few other things (new balls for JP cuz they’re getting scratched up and a new mount for the right upper flipper on STTNG because one of the OLD hex bolts snapped off when I did my rebuild. The single one is holding okay for now but I might as well buy that part while I’m getting other stuff)

#81 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from r00DVM:
a new mount for the right upper flipper on STTNG because one of the OLD hex bolts snapped off when I did my rebuild.

Can go this route if you so choose ... https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html Jusat make sure to order the correct one

#82 4 years ago

MIK

MrMikeman

Pinside+ Pro!