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(Topic ID: 262622)

Strikes and Spares, Bally. Various probs


By Ed_209

8 months ago



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#1 8 months ago

Hello, I am new to pinball machines and bought my first, a Strikes n Spares machine, last summer. I nearly had it all working (playing fine except feature lamps) but then there was a large bang in the backbox and since then there's a load more things wrong. Starting with power I am currently trying to work out why BR1 on my rectifier board keeps failing.

At present since the "explosion" the new problems are: the scoreboards not working, reading 0 and then nothing. The test button not working. 7 lights on start up intermittently. The start button not working (but I can give credits via tripping the lever in the door) - I'm hoping these new issues are all connected to one fault that happened with the bang!

The same issues I've had since getting the machine are the feature lamps not working, but GI is on. Wrong voltages on Rectifier Board (TP2 reading 159 not under load) and the BR1 repeatedly going even when I solder new ones in.

#2 8 months ago

Welcome to Pinside!

First of all, please ask a moderator to move this thread to the early solid state tech sub-forum where you'll get more eyes on it and better support.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/tech-early-80s-solid-state
.

Quoted from Ed_209:

then there was a large bang in the backbox

Did you work out what went bang?

Quoted from Ed_209:

Starting with power I am currently trying to work out why BR1 on my rectifier board keeps failing.

Have you got the correct fuse at F1 for BR1 which is a 10 amp fast blow?
Can you post some pictures of your BR1 installation?

Quoted from Ed_209:

I'm hoping these new issues are all connected to one fault that happened with the bang!

Your issues all sound unrelated.

Quoted from Ed_209:

Wrong voltages on Rectifier Board (TP2 reading 159 not under load)

Without load, 159 volts at test point TP2 on the rectifier board is fine.

#3 8 months ago

Suspect your LM323 regulator and Cap C23... the bang was probably the cap leaking its guts out.

#4 8 months ago

Thank you both, I will try and work out how to contact the mods to move this too.

So the "bang" made the back glass pop a little and was around where the rectifier board/ transformer is. It happened while playing. It forced a wafer to fly off the rectifier board! I think it was f5 that blew that time, I can check later on. I'll upload pics later too and thanks for the help I really appreciate any advice.

#5 8 months ago

Sounds like it's time to go through the entire game one board at a time and get each up to snuff. (see pinwiki.com in the bally/stern section).

Basically, rebuild the rectifier board first, get that solid, then do the solenoid driver board, then the mpu, finally the lamp board.

The only things I can think of in the head that could produce such a bang like that are the 2 large capacitors on the solenoid driver board C23 and C26.... they're over 40 years old if they're original, eventually all the electrolyte evaporates.

Simple things first as well, did you smell anything when it went bang? Make sure nothing metal/conductive fell into the transformer.... transformers are really reliable, but don't take kindly to having outputs/inputs shorted.

Personally I replace the rectifier board now in every single bally/stern I'm working on as they are cheap (I buy the kit from Weebly's and build it up myself) and rebuilding original vs. just replacing with new is so much easier (you don't have to deal with hammered 40+ year old traces/connections). The 323 regular is pretty reliable, and I'll evaluate the caps on the solenoid driver board with a scope to see the AC ripple, anything over 1/3 of a volt or so I replace. These parts are relatively cheap as well.... you start to get into expensive costs when you have to replace the back boards (SDB, MPU) with new. Used originals can be had in various states of repair as well, and it is helpful to have a spare set to swap around when you are fixing/testing things.

Whatever you do, keep in mind that as you are testing things, they might go boom again, this time with your head/hands around.... not good.

#6 8 months ago

Hi Both,

Hi quench , it is a 10 amp fast blow on F1. All the fuses on the rectifier board are correct now and I have checked and they all have continuity. This is the rectifier board at the moment in the photos attached, I take it off the machine when I work on it.

This will be the 3rd BR1 I have soldered on. The first one on the machine wasn't working when I got it (hence no switch lights), I changed it once and got the switch lights working for a few games and then that BANG. The 2nd one I soldered on never worked. I am about to attach the 3rd attempt soon - I have tested the next BR1 with a multimeter and it is working. I am worried that the solder my wife bought me for my birthday is not the right one, see attached. Diodes CR1, CR2, CR3, CR4 do look very black, not sure if that's anything to do with it. In my manual it says they act like a bridge rectifier so that might be it. Also my desoldering is grim so its caked in my p&ss poor soldering attempts previously.

Hi slochar, yes starting from the power. C26 on the solenoid board looks okay, see attached. I have seen I get get a new rectifier board for about £60 in the UK but the machine all seems to be the original boards, some with modifications on. I'd like to practice as much as I can on these boards so at least when/if I get a new one I've got better at soldering because at present I suck at it!

I have also attached photographs of the solenoid, MPU and Lamp boards.

87482263_235910974085505_174162852293115904_n (resized).jpg87545944_2486997431565230_7450555063442866176_n (resized).jpg87530558_2895191937206901_3321493648188637184_n (resized).jpg87353038_874694473000687_9176604528810655744_n (resized).jpg87380097_196312174779813_6331752018826231808_n (resized).jpg87396964_665044984301700_4841376797788471296_n (resized).jpg87868921_181228176504299_2371449386279370752_n (resized).jpg
#7 8 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

it is a 10 amp fast blow on F1.

Those might be slow blow fuses - can you give me the full part/codes they're marked with?

Behind those three bridges is a rectangle aluminum spacer that sits between the bridge and the metal frame the board attaches to. Are you adding any thermal transfer paste to the back of the bridge and that aluminum spacer and then screwing it on?
BR1 normally runs HOT. It needs to be thermally cooled by being physically attached to the metal assembly. The feature lamps on the playfield have power from that BR1 all connected together via a bare braid wire stapled to the playfield and connected to the base of each lamp (a lot of people confuse this braid wire as ground but it's not - it's feature lamp power). Lift the playfield and carefully follow the braid wire to each feature lamp looking for any potential short circuits to anything else. Do the same with the light/display door in the backbox (where the feature lights illuminate behind the backglass).

BTW, those bridge rectifiers are directional - you are installing it the correct way??

Quoted from Ed_209:

Diodes CR1, CR2, CR3, CR4 do look very black, not sure if that's anything to do with it. In my manual it says they act like a bridge rectifier so that might be it.

Yes, those four (CR1, CR2, CR3, CR4) diodes form a bridge rectifier. They rectify the high voltage going to the displays.

Quoted from Ed_209:

I am worried that the solder my wife bought me for my birthday is not the right one, see attached.

I'd just get some old fashioned leaded solder - that lead free stuff is harder to work with as it requires higher temperatures meaning your cooking devices longer when soldering them.

#8 8 months ago

Hi quench thank you, I really appreciate the help.

Those might be slow blow fuses - can you give me the full part/codes they're marked with?

I have pulled the fuses and they read:
F1 F10A / 250 vp 312
F2 BUSS / 4GC 3/4 250 volt
F3 BUSS AGC 4 32/
F4 F5A / 6OV PBi
F5 BUSS 4GC 20 32V
F6 (upside down pyramid with lines in it) 3A 250v 313

Behind those three bridges is a rectangle aluminum spacer that sits between the bridge and the metal frame the board attaches to. Are you adding any thermal transfer paste to the back of the bridge and that aluminum spacer and then screwing it on?

Yes, the spacer is there and with the 2nd BR1 I added more thermal paste to it. The 1st BR1 I fitted that worked I didn't have the paste and thought there was enough residual left on the spacer....that then was followed by the BANG while playing.

The feature lamps on the playfield have power from that BR1 all connected together via a bare braid wire stapled to the playfield and connected to the base of each lamp (a lot of people confuse this braid wire as ground but it's not - it's feature lamp power). Lift the playfield and carefully follow the braid wire to each feature lamp looking for any potential short circuits to anything else. Do the same with the light/display door in the backbox (where the feature lights illuminate behind the backglass).

This was news to me, I thought the braid was ground as it came off the metal frame of the backbox and joined the braid that continues into the machine under the Playfield - see photos. There seems to be no way this connects up to the rectifier board. So not quite sure what to do about that.

BTW, those bridge rectifiers are directional - you are installing it the correct way??

Yes, the new bridge rectifiers I bought were placed corresponding to the +- on the holes on the rectifier board. The BR's also have a curved corner to show which one is +.

Those four (CR1, CR2, CR3, CR4) diodes form a bridge rectifier. They rectify the high voltage going to the displays.

Interesting, they look very dark in the photograph I just took. I will try and find older photographs I took of the rectifier board before the bang and see if they got fried. Maybe that's why my scoreboards aren't working anymore?

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#9 8 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

that then was followed by the BANG while playing

Did you find any evidence of an explosion in the backbox (black soot)? Was there any hole blowout in the original failed BR1?

Quoted from Ed_209:

This was news to me, I thought the braid was ground as it came off the metal frame of the backbox and joined the braid that continues into the machine under the Playfield - see photos. There seems to be no way this connects up to the rectifier board. So not quite sure what to do about that.

That braid in your pictures is indeed ground. But it does not connect to the bottom side of the playfield.
Lift the playfield and look at the feature lamp sockets - they're connected together at the base by a skinny braid wire stapled the the bottom of the playfield which connects to lamp power coming from the rectifier board - usually a blue wire that ultimately comes from the "+" connection of BR1.
The lamp driver board switches ground individually to each feature lamp in order to illuminate them.

Quoted from Ed_209:

Interesting, they look very dark in the photograph I just took. I will try and find older photographs I took of the rectifier board before the bang and see if they got fried. Maybe that's why my scoreboards aren't working anymore?

Just test those four CR1, CR2, CR3 and CR4 diodes with your multi-meter set on diode mode (machine OFF). Clean them with isopropyl or electrical cleaner solution.

#10 8 months ago

Hi quench , it's funny as there was a bang but no soot, no smell or smoke. Br1 that failed looked fine too. Can a fuse make that much noise blowing?

I found the narrow braid around the underside of the playfield, thanks for pointing that out, and I have seen where the dark blue cable clips onto it now and again (pictured). I'll inspect proper on my next day off.

I couldn't quite get the cr1 cr2 cr3 cr4 diodes to beep or do anything while testing for continuity, I'm simply holding the red and black connector to the metal wire on each end of the diode.

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#11 8 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

Can a fuse make that much noise blowing?

Not the fuses in these games.

Quoted from Ed_209:

I couldn't quite get the cr1 cr2 cr3 cr4 diodes to beep or do anything while testing for continuity, I'm simply holding the red and black connector to the metal wire on each end of the diode.

Make sure you're setting the multi-meter to diode mode. With the leads one way across each diode you should get a reading of about 0.6 volts (or your meter might indicate 600 millivolts), swap the leads and you should get no reading.

#12 8 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Not the fuses in these games.

Make sure you're setting the multi-meter to diode mode. With the leads one way across each diode you should get a reading of about 0.6 volts (or your meter might indicate 600 millivolts), swap the leads and you should get no reading.

Yep, that works got 600 reading on all the cr's. Found a broken capacitor on the playfield last night, some bare wires where the coating has come off. Some lights are wired one way, some another. I dont think that should be an issue though, see photo.

New solder arrives tomorrow and I'll try and have a go on Sunday getting the rectifier board working again. Thanks again

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#13 8 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

Found a broken capacitor on the playfield last night

Those capacitors commonly fail by short circuiting and cause stuck switch issues. Operators just clipped one leg to get the games back up and running. With the capacitor disconnected, fast hits on the respective switches often don't get recognised.

Regarding the lamps, because the sockets are a little rusted they were probably working intermittently so on those left side lamps in your picture, someones soldered the grounding wire direct to the contact pin. I often find the failed point of contact is the top of that springed pin corrodes where it touches the base of the lamp and needs to be cleaned.

1 month later
#14 6 months ago

Hey All,

So I ended up getting a new rectifier board as BR1 kept on failing every time I installed in and I couldn't work out why. The new rectifier board is on thanks to a guy in the UK here who did it via mail order and things are working again on my machine! The test button in the coin door is also working again, which is really helpful. There are two things I've found that need sorting during the test:

1. The scores cycle through fine until they hit 888888 which comes up all blank, then 999999 appears but then it all goes to hell and is just a random bunch of numbers and then blank.

2. In the solenoid test I get the knocker and the chimes and nothing else. I can add a credit and start a game but the outhole kicker doesn't eject the ball and the flippers don't work - they just oscillate a few mm and buzz. So something either is wrong with the solenoid board or I've a dodgy connection somewhere as all of the solenoids seem to be out, right?

Aside from that I'm super happy the feature lights are working again, the test button, the credit button, the scores actually have numbers on etc so a great step forward.

#15 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

1. The scores cycle through fine until they hit 888888 which comes up all blank, then 999999 appears but then it all goes to hell and is just a random bunch of numbers and then blank.

List the number sequence in display test mode so we can make sense of what's going wrong. You likely have a bad connection of one of the display number signals at the MPU board that lead off to the displays.

Quoted from Ed_209:

2. In the solenoid test I get the knocker and the chimes and nothing else. I can add a credit and start a game but the outhole kicker doesn't eject the ball and the flippers don't work - they just oscillate a few mm and buzz. So something either is wrong with the solenoid board or I've a dodgy connection somewhere as all of the solenoids seem to be out, right?

Measure the voltage on both sides of the fuse next to the flipper mechs under the playfield. You should measure 43 volts DC on both sides. It sounds like you've got a dodgy connection on the solenoid power rail coming from the rectifier board (J1 pin 6).
Post a clear picture of the rectifier board connectors.

#16 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

List the number sequence in display test mode so we can make sense of what's going wrong. You likely have a bad connection of one of the display number signals at the MPU board that lead off to the displays.

Measure the voltage on both sides of the fuse next to the flipper mechs under the playfield. You should measure 43 volts DC on both sides. It sounds like you've got a dodgy connection on the solenoid power rail coming from the rectifier board (J1 pin 6).
Post a clear picture of the rectifier board connectors.

Amazing, Cheers Quench. Our babies are asleep now so I will try this tomorrow as the pinball machine is in the room below the nursery!

#17 6 months ago

So it was me being a moron....the new rectifier board had an extra pin for J1 and my wafer wasn't aligned correctly, hence no power to the solenoids.

Now J1 is plugged I got 7 green mpu lights, but then while it was in attract mode there was some ghost scoring and chiming as the 1st player score went up in 100 point increments until all scores went blank. I tried a reboot and then got only 2 green mpu lights and nothing else.

To me it seems like the machine was working before the solenoids had power (when J1 was in the wrong way) so clearly has to be a solenoid issue right?

#18 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

I tried a reboot and then got only 2 green mpu lights and nothing else.

If you get a very quick LED flicker the moment you power on, then two LED flashes after it, that points to a new problem with the 5101 RAM chip at U8 on the MPU board. Does the MPU board have signs of battery corrosion in that area? Feel free to post pictures of the MPU board.

#19 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

If you get a very quick LED flicker the moment you power on, then two LED flashes after it, that points to a new problem with the 5101 RAM chip at U8 on the MPU board. Does the MPU board have signs of battery corrosion in that area? Feel free to post pictures of the MPU board.

So after this mornings experiment I realised now the F1 fuse on the new rectifier board had blown. So I changed it for a spare 10A Fast blow and powered up with J2 plugged in only and got good voltages off all TPs on the rectifier board. I plugged in the rest (J1 & J3) and fired it up and got 7 lights and then ghost scoring and then nothing. Now it won't let me run a test or start a game again. I then checked the F1 fuse and it has died again! Eeeek.

Could I have fried the new rectifier board having the J1 wafer pushed in one slot over by accident?

What could be making F1 continually fail? It doesn't fail when J2 is in, but once I put J1 and J3 in and power my machine up it is blown.

There's no damage to the MPU board, which is original, it looks like U6 and U2 have been replaced. No battery attached (I read online thats not a problem as its only for remembering high scores). I am not sure about firing it up again for now as I've blown all the F1 fuses I've got (see below) can I fire it up with a blown F1 fuse to check the MPU flashes? My hunch is now, like the one that blew earlier, I will only get two flashes.

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#20 6 months ago
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#21 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

can I fire it up with a blown F1 fuse to check the MPU flashes?

Most certainly. How many flashes do you get?
Fuse F1 is for the feature lamps. It has no effect on the MPU board power on self test.

Quoted from Ed_209:

Could I have fried the new rectifier board having the J1 wafer pushed in one slot over by accident?

It's possible. The 43V solenoid power got shorted to the 5.4V feature lamp power.

If you have any spare fast blow fuses lower than 10 amps, install it in F1. Remove J1 and J3 from the rectifier board and power up.
Do you then measure 5.4V DC at test point TP1 on the rectifier board?
And how about test point TP5 - do you measure 43V DC there?

#22 6 months ago

F1 is for the switched lamps, you have a short somewhere in your lamps. Not super fun to find and fix because the natural state of a lamp is continuity. Try taking all the lamp board connectors off except the top left one. If it didn't blow, put one at a time back in until it blows. If it blows try a different order putting them back on to make sure when it does blow that the connector is the same one.

Also, your mpu is an original Bally, but not to your machine - Strikes n Spares used a -17 mpu board. The -35 is better anyway because it has slightly beefier traces and can take a little more heat on soldering/unsoldering.

#23 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Most certainly. How many flashes do you get?
Fuse F1 is for the feature lamps. It has no effect on the MPU board power on self test.

It's possible. The 43V solenoid power got shorted to the 5.4V feature lamp power.
If you have any spare fast blow fuses lower than 10 amps, install it in F1. Remove J1 and J3 from the rectifier board and power up.
Do you then measure 5.4V DC at test point TP1 on the rectifier board?
And how about test point TP5 - do you measure 43V DC there?

I have put in my last spare 10A fast blow fuse into F1, with J2 plugged in only I am reading the following:

TP1 6.7
TP2 161
TP3 12
TP4 7.2
TP5 47

#24 6 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

F1 is for the switched lamps, you have a short somewhere in your lamps. Not super fun to find and fix because the natural state of a lamp is continuity. Try taking all the lamp board connectors off except the top left one. If it didn't blow, put one at a time back in until it blows. If it blows try a different order putting them back on to make sure when it does blow that the connector is the same one.
Also, your mpu is an original Bally, but not to your machine - Strikes n Spares used a -17 mpu board. The -35 is better anyway because it has slightly beefier traces and can take a little more heat on soldering/unsoldering.

The whole reason I got a new rectifier board was that I had F1 keep blowing, I thought it was a problem with BR1 (hence me fitting three new ones one after the other) this makes sense now. So this is probably why I keep losing feature lights but they run for a bit and then the fuse goes on f1 and I lose them. I have J1 to J4 connectors on the lamp driver board, I will try pilling them out one by one on boot like suggested. A little worrying as I'm down to my last F1 fuse. What could be causing a short on the feature lamps?

#25 6 months ago

So I filmed both attempts I mentioned above and put them on YouTube....while watching back both attempts I see that when I shut the backbox door it goes to Hell....

"A very common problem here is the ground braid that connects the head to the backbox. This can bunch up and touch one of the lamp sockets on the back side of the insert (display) panel (when the insert panel is closed)"

Erm.... my ground braid was bunched up and hitting the back of the scoreboards! Haven't dared to fire it up since but this could be one of the main issues.

#26 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

So I filmed both attempts I mentioned above and put them on YouTube....while watching back both attempts I see that when I shut the backbox door it goes to Hell....

Got links to those YouTube videos?

Quoted from Ed_209:

my ground braid was bunched up and hitting the back of the scoreboards! Haven't dared to fire it up since but this could be one of the main issues.

Sounds feasible and an easily fix.

#27 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Got links to those YouTube videos?

Sounds feasible and an easily fix.

#28 6 months ago

Does it only do this when you close the door? Examine the insert to backbox cable harness even if you have to cut all the tie-wraps. Something is getting pinched or shorted.

#29 6 months ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Does it only do this when you close the door? Examine the insert to backbox cable harness even if you have to cut all the tie-wraps. Something is getting pinched or shorted.

I'd make sure all the ground straps are connected too. I had a machine when you closed the door it would do strange things and it turn out someone left a braid off. The head would shift around just enough to make/break contact.

#30 6 months ago

Thanks for all your help it's super appreciated bigal56 gdonovan quench @slocher

So yes it was the braid cable in the backbox hitting the wiring on the back of the door making more issues. Alas on start up the feature lights and scores work for a bit then die. I will post videos below with notes. The good news is the fuses dont blow everytime this happens (that must have been the ground braid in the backbox).

#31 6 months ago

So this was it working and the backbox door being able to close and not short to ground. But after this clip I opened the coin door to add a credit, which it did, but after that feature lights and scores went and start button game wouldnt work. Powered up after this and no feature lights or scores. Good news is the f1 fuse has stopped blowing.

#32 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

But after this clip I opened the coin door to add a credit, which it did, but after that feature lights and scores went and start button game wouldnt work. Powered up after this and no feature lights or scores. Good news is the f1 fuse has stopped blowing.

New problem. When you power on, what activity do you get from the small green LED on the MPU board? Normally it will quickly flicker the moment you power on, then as it's performing its self test it will flash that green LED 7 times about half a second apart then go into attract mode. So how many times does it flash for you?

Regarding the ground braid wire, screw the end of it in the head, there's no need having all that excess ground braid wire there. I also solder the end of the cabinet braid wire (not to the head braid wire but just the end alone) to stop it fraying - haven't done it on the below yet.

IMG_0022b.jpg

#33 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

New problem. When you power on, what activity do you get from the small green LED on the MPU board? Normally it will quickly flicker the moment you power on, then as it's performing its self test it will flash that green LED 7 times about half a second apart then go into attract mode. So how many times does it flash for you?
Regarding the ground braid wire, screw the end of it in the head, there's no need having all that excess ground braid wire there. I also solder the end of the cabinet braid wire (not to the head braid wire but just the end alone) to stop it fraying - haven't done it on the below yet.
[quoted image]

Hi quench I have filmed the most recent start up:

I always thought it was 7 flashes.... but if that first flash doesn't count its only 6.

It cut out this time in the video when I touched the coin door to press the test button. Not sure if that was a coincidence.

#34 6 months ago

Hard to see the power on flicker but you are getting the 7 LED flashes.

When the game crashes, if you then power off and back on, do you get the 7 LED flashes or do you count less?

On successful power up, does it always crash when you move the coin door?

On the MPU board which is the top left board in the head box, disconnect the connector at J3 which is the cabinet/coin door switch wiring harness. Does the game then stay alive until you power off or does it still crash after a few minutes of being on?

#35 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Hard to see the power on flicker but you are getting the 7 LED flashes.
When the game crashes, if you then power off and back on, do you get the 7 LED flashes or do you count less?
On successful power up, does it always crash when you move the coin door?
On the MPU board which is the top left board in the head box, disconnect the connector at J3 which is the cabinet/coin door switch wiring harness. Does the game then stay alive until you power off or does it still crash after a few minutes of being on?

When it crashes I get 2 mph flashes on the next start up. I tried disconnecting j3 but did it straight after so also only got 2 flashes still. If I leave it for a while I will get 7 flashes again. I looked in my bally modules and procedure handbook and it says two flashes was to do with U8. Online I found a repair guide that says this :

The Fakers Guide: no third flash means U8 (5101) is bad.

Techno Guide: The U9 CPU goes out to U8 (CMOS 5101 RAM) and makes a copy of the contents of the first half byte. It does this because U8 is battery supplied, non-volatile memory where the bookkeeping functions are stored. 

Now, my machine had no battery attached to the mpu when I got it but I read online that was fine as it was for only saving high scores. But reading the link above makes me think that's my problem as theres no battery attached to the mpu board so U8 isnt working?

#36 6 months ago

It will run just fine with no battery.

#37 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

Now, my machine had no battery attached to the mpu when I got it but I read online that was fine as it was for only saving high scores. But reading the link above makes me think that's my problem as there's no battery attached to the mpu board so U8 isn't working?

U8 will just boot up with random data in it. It would not affect the test at all since the test grabs the nibble from the ram, holds it in an accumulator, cycles the nibble through all 16 values, then saves the original value back. It performs no checksum tests on the validity of the data.

#38 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

I looked in my bally modules and procedure handbook and it says two flashes was to do with U8.

With the machine off, pull out the U8 chip and try to post some clear pictures of the U8 socket - we're looking for signs of battery corrosion in the socket that could be causing connectivity problems with the chip. While you're there inspect the U8 chip legs, they should be nice and shiny, not tarnished.

#39 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

With the machine off, pull out the U8 chip and try to post some clear pictures of the U8 socket - we're looking for signs of battery corrosion in the socket that could be causing connectivity problems with the chip. While you're there inspect the U8 chip legs, they should be nice and shiny, not tarnished.

Cheers Quench, I pulled U8 off and here are some photos. It doesnt look too bad to me but I'm not sure what it should look like. Thanks

20200412_070533 (resized).jpg20200412_075837 (resized).jpg20200412_075850 (resized).jpg20200412_070435 (resized).jpg
#40 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

Cheers Quench, I pulled U8 off and here are some photos. It doesnt look too bad to me but I'm not sure what it should look like. Thanks

That socket looks bad, the pin receptors should be shiny tin metal and all I see is crusty brown/green stuff on the socket pin receptors. A leaking battery has caused this. That socket needs to be replaced... Note that socket is not original, someone has already replaced it in the past.

Anyway after you put U8 RAM chip back in, did the game power up successfully?

Oh BTW, one of the U8 chip pins is broken in half. You can replace that chip with one of these for now:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCD5101P-DIP22-Integrated-Circuit-from-Philips/292789259848
Or get a pinball NVRAM instead, which operates without the need for a battery.

#41 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

That socket looks bad, the pin receptors should be shiny tin metal and all I see is crusty brown/green stuff on the socket pin receptors. A leaking battery has caused this. That socket needs to be replaced... Note that socket is not original, someone has already replaced it in the past.
Anyway after you put U8 RAM chip back in, did the game power up successfully?
Oh BTW, one of the U8 chip pins is broken in half. You can replace that chip with one of these for now:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCD5101P-DIP22-Integrated-Circuit-from-Philips/292789259848
Or get a pinball NVRAM instead, which operates without the need for a battery.

So I removed the ram chip again and it spun out and another pin snapped off. So that's it for a week till the new one arrives. If the socket is bad I will look for a replacement - I guess until I take it off I won't really know how bad it is on the MPU circuit board underneath it.

Till then I'm going to look over the feature lights as slochar pointed out there could be a short there. I noticed on the last time my test button functioned that the feature lights for the bonuses in the bowling ball dont work - I just checked the bulbs with a 9v battery and they do work, so something is wrong there. I will look at the wiring diagrams to see how they are connected, the ground on the underside of the playfield around it seems fine. Thanks for all the help everyone. Have a great Easter.

#42 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

So I removed the ram chip again and it spun out and another pin snapped off.

Ok, at this point in time you have nothing to lose so if you have any electronic components like resistors, solder the resistor leg onto the chip pins that are broken to try and reconstruct the pins. If you succeed and the U8 socket behaves you'll be able to continue diagnosing other issues on the game until your replacement U8 chip and socket arrives.

#43 6 months ago

While it’s not a high priority for u at the moment, the next time u order parts u need to rebuild your chimes. Get sleeves, grommets, eyelets and plungers. Your chimes sound terrible. Those things will sing if u do this.

#44 6 months ago
Quoted from eagle18:

u need to rebuild your chimes.

Oh the chimes are also playing out of order (probably a connector issue between the MPU board and the solenoid driver board), another item for the todo list

#45 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Oh the chimes are also playing out of order (probably a connector issue between the MPU board and the solenoid driver board), another item for the todo list

Thanks all! I got the new U8 part but having trouble locating the 22 pin socket for it. Any ideas on UK sites that might have it?

#46 6 months ago
Quoted from eagle18:

While it’s not a high priority for u at the moment, the next time u order parts u need to rebuild your chimes. Get sleeves, grommets, eyelets and plungers. Your chimes sound terrible. Those things will sing if u do this.

Thanks!

#47 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

having trouble locating the 22 pin socket for it. Any ideas on UK sites that might have it?

By description, you need a 22 pin 0.4" (10.16mm) row width IC socket.
This UK ebay seller lists it amongst their options - note the picture that comes up when you select it shows the wrong 0.3" width socket.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Standard-Low-Profile-Turned-6-8-14-16-18-20-22-24-28-32-40-Pin-IC-Socket/231355183099

Otherwise RS components in the UK has them - their pictures are all wrong too.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/connectors/ic-sockets/dil-sockets/?applied-dimensions=4294839152,4294430766

#48 6 months ago
Quoted from Ed_209:

Thanks all! I got the new U8 part but having trouble locating the 22 pin socket for it. Any ideas on UK sites that might have it?

Order the 20 pin strips and cut off what you need.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SIP-20-MP

#49 6 months ago

So while I wait for the U8 parts heres some oddities ive also come across.

I've been using "Zoom" with my mum during lockdown so she can see her grandbabies and it gave me an idea, I could "zoom" on my phone with someone and show them my machine? Happy to compensate for their time/help. Just an idea while we are all on lockdown.

20200413_194323 (resized).jpg20200413_193908 (resized).jpg20200413_193822 (resized).jpg
#50 6 months ago

Are you on Pinballinfo the UK pinball forum Ed_209 ?

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