(Topic ID: 94380)

Street Fighter 2 weak Upkickers


By zimjoe

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by BeaverBrewing
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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203.JPG

#1 5 years ago

This one has me a little stumped. The Torpedo upkickers (Honda and Bison) on the lower half of the playfield are randomly weak and seem to be getting weaker as time goes on. They always work, but the ball often kicks to the drain or the close flipper. There are still times when the ball flies out properly just make the problem harder to solve.

When they first started dropping the ball occasionally, I replaced the sleeves and inspected everything. That didn't help. So then I replaced the coils, the sleeves and the upkicker rods and springs... no difference.

The problem doesn't seem mechanical at all. To me it seems like there isn't enough of a boost of electrical power when it's needed. Even the sound is pathetic when this happens. My best guess is a dying capacitor, but I'm not sure which one to go after. The big black one on the driver board seems like a place to start, but randomly replacing things has produced 0 results so far.

I'm putting this out there to see what you all think. Unfortunately, I only have one system3 and can't just do some board swapping to see what works. If there are any Richmond VA based System3 folks that want to play board swap at my house, I can pay them in beer.

Other than that, this the game plays great... well, as great a a SF2 can play. Figured I'd get that out of the way to save the SF2 haters the trouble

#2 5 years ago

check your subways are the entries/exits damaged a little, or loose, also, sometimes the screw holes for those brackets get worn because of force over time and they are not fastened to the PF very well and require a repair, causing the upkicker to perform weak.. I had a similar issue but only with one of mine, it fixed it...just a thought

#3 5 years ago

Hi Zen,
That is a good suggestion. I double checked and everything looks good under the playfield. I have been over the mechanical stuff a few times and it all looks solid and smooth operating.

The upkickers are just under powered sometimes. They start out strong enough, but seem to lose force if they are used multiple times too close together.

#4 5 years ago

My up kicker bison side hits the bottom part of the wire rail above it causing it to kick out weak, anyone have a clue as to why? My upkickers both also fire out weak if there's 2 balls that kick out back to back(in multi ball for example) btw

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Damon:

My up kicker bison side hits the bottom part of the wire rail above it causing it to kick out weak, anyone have a clue as to why? My upkickers both also fire out weak if there's 2 balls that kick out back to back(in multi ball for example) btw

There is supposed to be a metal stop with a rubber pad above the hole, that the ball hits when coming out, causing the ball to travel horizontal. The ball should not come close to banging into the wire rail.

As for the back-to-back issue, are you talking about when there are two balls in the *same* hole? Having balls eject weak in that scenario is normal for every machine.

#6 5 years ago

strange, I re read your original post and you said the audio goes wacky when kicking out? there is a bridge that supply coil power iirc, could be that, just thinking out loud, check f7 fuse holder in the bottom of the cab, is it tarnished, damaged, etc, pull the fuse and push on it, might be causing a resistance issue, if you have other probs when they fire I suppose.. i dont think the filter cap has anything to do with the coil power.. any other weak firing coils?

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from ZEN:

you said the audio goes wacky when kicking out?

No, sorry for not being clear. When I said the sound was pathetic, I meant the kick sound made by the mechanism was weak sounding. When it works correctly, it makes a good thump. When the upkicker goes weak, it makes a very weak thump.

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from ZEN:

any other weak firing coils

No there are not. I think this would be much easier to solve if something bigger was broken

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from sosage:

There is supposed to be a metal stop with a rubber pad above the hole, that the ball hits when coming out, causing the ball to travel horizontal. The ball should not come close to banging into the wire rail.
As for the back-to-back issue, are you talking about when there are two balls in the *same* hole? Having balls eject weak in that scenario is normal for every machine.

The metal stop is there but the ball kicks to the front of the hole instead if the back so it kicks too high forward and misses the stop entirely hitting the wire rail. I am also looking for a replacement rubber for the stop but having trouble finding it, anyone know where to find it? I was indeed talking about having two balls in the same hole and it kicking out weak, thanks for clarifying that this is normal

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from Damon:

I am also looking for a replacement rubber for the stop but having trouble finding it, anyone know where to find it?

I think this stuff may work D...

http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=131

I have some at home I can bring by next time, if you can wait. Ordered the parts for TSPP from pinbits today, which should arrive soon as they're here in the bay area.

#11 5 years ago

The upkickers get their power through the A16 filter board which is located under the playfield below the left plunger gate (board is missing in the photo but you can see where it goes).

203.JPG

There are only three components on this board: a 2200uf 100v radial cap, a 1n5401 diode and a 24k ohm 1/4w resistor. The resistor and capacitor are arranged in a parallel RC network.

Obviously, you should do all the standard stuff like check the coil resistance (which should be about 42 ohms), coil diode, spring, insure things are lined up correctly, etc etc etc.

You can also check the diode and resistor on the filter board with your multimeter. If the resistor is bad there will be lower overall current going to the filter board as well as shorter firing times for the VUK weakening the kick. If you have an ESR meter you can also check the cap. Most of the time it's the diode that goes on this board and not the cap. Having said that a new filter board is about $15 from Steve Young - P/N MA-1745: http://pbresource.com/boards.html#gtbsys3

When I had SF2 I had a problem with one VUK kicking straight down the middle. A new spring made the problem worse and required a bit of trimming to get it to work properly. But having the same problem with both VUKs may be a power problem.

As for the "metal stop", it's called a "ball snubber". The black rubber on it is actually hard polyurethane to get a better bounce out of the VUK. Details and P/Ns are in this thread:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-help-locating-gottlieb-part

Quoted from Damon:

The metal stop is there but the ball kicks to the front of the hole instead if the back so it kicks too high forward and misses the stop entirely hitting the wire rail. I am also looking for a replacement rubber for the stop but having trouble finding it, anyone know where to find it? I was indeed talking about having two balls in the same hole and it kicking out weak, thanks for clarifying that this is normal

This may be because someone might have put the wrong snubber back in place when they shopped the game. There are a few different lengths used on SF2 and someone might have mixed them up. Hard to believe the VUK misses the snubber entirely with the correct one installed.

viperrwk

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

You can also check the diode and resistor on the filter board with your multimeter

I saw that Filter Board and wasn't sure if it was a good place to go next. Since I have been over the mechanical parts and replaced just about everything, I'll try this next.

I will update this thread with the results.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

I think this stuff may work D...
http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=131
I have some at home I can bring by next time, if you can wait. Ordered the parts for TSPP from pinbits today, which should arrive soon as they're here in the bay area.

I don't think the foam will work because it feels like a hard rubber meant to bounce the ball out further rather than deaden the impact but we def try it

Quoted from viperrwk:

As for the "metal stop", it's called a "ball snubber". The black rubber on it is actually hard polyurethane to get a better bounce out of the VUK. Details and P/Ns are in this thread:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-help-locating-gottlieb-part

This may be because someone might have put the wrong snubber back in place when they shopped the game. There are a few different lengths used on SF2 and someone might have mixed them up. Hard to believe the VUK misses the snubber entirely with the correct one installed.
viperrwk

Thank you very much the post was very helpful, thinking maybe my snubbers are switched, as for the rubber i found the part number (28504) but I can't find the part, talked to Steve young but he didn't have it. I'll just try my luck a few places and see what happens

#14 5 years ago

Found the part I needed as part of a lot of items in this auction ebay.com link » Gottlieb Premier Street Fighter Pinball Machine Pf Metals Wire Actuator Lot

Only need the snubbers, anyone need any of the other parts?

Post edited by Damon: Link wasn't working

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Damon:

Found the part I needed as part of a lot of items in this auction

I noticed only one of those snubbers has rubber on it. Mine only has the rubber on the left one too. I've checked a few auctions and videos and it seems that only the left had the rubber from the factory. Of course having the rubber on the right wouldn't hurt anything.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from zimjoe:

I noticed only one of those snubbers has rubber on it. Mine only has the rubber on the left one too. I've checked a few auctions and videos and it seems that only the left had the rubber from the factory. Of course having the rubber on the right wouldn't hurt anything.

Yep - went back through my old shop photos and it was the same for mine - no polyurethane on the right side. The interesting thing is that the manual calls for it on both sides.

viperrwk

#17 5 years ago

Hunh...my machine came the same way. I thought it probably just came off while on route or something. Strange.

#18 5 years ago

I know you said you replaced the coil sleeves, but did you replace with the longer sleeves used for VUKs? Had the same issue with the VUK in Baywatch, replace the coil, tested and adjusted it, etc. Wrong sleeve had been installed and I replaced it with the same one. Needed the longer sleeve and now no issues at all.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

but did you replace with the longer sleeves used for VUKs?

This is a good point. I do have the correct ones in the VUKs. (I double checked) I am a manual reader. Every part I order gets double checked against the book. Any part I remove is suspect, because somebody else might have changed it.

I did have an issue where a previous owner put the wrong sleeve in the upper flipper and it worked poorly. The plunger was worn funny from the scraping.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

The upkickers get their power through the A16 filter board

The Filter board did it. In fact, the whole game is playing awesome now. It's like it was groggy before and I didn't notice. Even the slingshots hit harder.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions,

Joe

#21 5 years ago

Congrats. Glad you got it sorted. Thanks for posting the follow-up. Please mark your thread as solved.

"Prepare for the ultimate challenge!"

viperrwk

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

Yep - went back through my old shop photos and it was the same for mine - no polyurethane on the right side. The interesting thing is that the manual calls for it on both sides.
viperrwk

I have often wondered if mine was the only one like that...I guess not!

I replaced the coils, springs, and sleeves on mine not too long ago...absolutely makes a difference in quality kickouts after you put the new ones in....well worth the $30-40 in parts.

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