(Topic ID: 281075)

Stray Voltage?

By jjga

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

Playing my Bride of Pinbot today I noticed a small shock when touching the lock bar. The game has a new, intact, grounded power cable going to a properly wired outlet.

When I connected my multimeter to the side rail and one of the play field ramps, it measured around 300-900mV.

Nothing looks out of place inside the box where the power cable is wired in.

I’m new at this, so at this point I’m not sure how I should be trying to isolate and troubleshoot this. Any pointers?

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#6 3 years ago

Should I be using the meter in AC or DC?

#7 3 years ago

Had it in DC earlier, guessing AC because that shows a much higher value. Here I’m grounded to the leg of an adjacent machine.

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#11 3 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Put the meter down until you completely inspect the ground braid. Excellent chance it's broken in at least one place. You should have continuity from the metal ground plane in the backbox all the way to the lockbar. Ground braid in lower cab may be disconnected at the head, or it may have breaks near the playfield hinges. Put playfield all the way up to inspect lower cab in front, then slide it out the rails to inspect the back of the lower cab and where the braid goes up to the head.
Easy excercise. Just look for breaks or disconnected sections on the ground braid. Also, don't forget to add the ground braid back to the power box when you screw that back in.

Cable connected back to the power box on both spots. I have continuity from the lock bar to every other spot on the ground braid I tested from cabinet as well as backbox.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Adding to your comment: You measured DC, AC is the real important measurement (which you did).
Unplug the pin from the wall, measure continuity between the ground plug of the pin and the lockdown bar.. should be close to zero.
Looks like you have a bad ground somewhere.

Ok, found an issue here. The ground pin on the cord is loose. It is only giving continuity when I wiggle/smush it into the connector.

Do I just need to replace that connector and I’m set or is there another issue to run down even after I fix the ground pin on the connector?

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Eric_S:

Unplug the machine and ohm out the plug to the service outlet. It is an easy way to check if a cord was mis-wired. I've found a lot of cords where the hot and neutral wires are swapped.

Hot to hot and neutral to neutral have continuity.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

If you're not comfortable soldering in the power box and the rest of the old cord looks good, you can just add a new plug. Watch your polarity either way.

I’m still learning how to solder and the cord is in good shape other than the lose ground plug. I think I’m going to try replacing just the plug.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Double check what you think is really intermittent. i.e. Is it really the power cord, ground braid, kludge, etc.?
The longer the new cord...the lower the gauge wire.
If you think your capabilities are up to par, you can maybe can replace the plug.

At this point I can reliably break continuity between the ground braid and the wall plug with just a little movement on the plug side.

#20 3 years ago

Thank you all for your help. I’ll get new plug hardware tomorrow and post an update after I have a go at it.

#21 3 years ago

Just read through the thread about replacing cords and plugs and saw this:

“You're getting current where it doesn't belong. A properly grounded game will dissipate that current safely but doesn't address the source of the problem.”

Once I repair the ground how do I figure out the source of the voltage?

#27 3 years ago

New cable end, no voltage to the lock bar now. Pretty happy about this. Now I can spend the rest of the weekend toning down the LEDs on these games. Thank you all again.

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#29 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

You haven’t found the issue. It’s just being dissipated safely to ground as it should be when there is a malfunction.

Understood, but I’m not sure how to find the fault. Because it’s AC, wouldn’t the issue have to be within the box before the current is delivered to the transformer?

#32 3 years ago

Am I correct in thinking I can’t measure the magnitude or presence of the issue unless the ground to the wall outlet is severed again?

#37 3 years ago

I appreciate all the perspective and I'm not sure what I'm going to do next on this, but at the least I'll try to understand the AC pathways in the game and inspect them. I suspect the current leaking was less than a fatal amount because as far as I can tell I'm still alive. It was also barely noticeable as I purchased this game recently and have been playing it unawares for three weeks.

I hate dropping a band aid on things and calling it good because that always seems to come back to bite you.

#40 3 years ago

I hate not getting to the bottom of an issue, so a few updates.

Using a 3->2 wall adapter on the BOP that removes the ground, the 60V AC is present again (measuring across BOP lockbar to grounded leg of Pinbot) with BOP off. The current reading in that state is 0.57mA AC.

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#42 3 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

I didn't even think of such an easy method of isolating the ground -> an adapter plug.
The Corcom B series filter such as the 5VB1 has a maximum leakage current of 0.4mA.
You are seeing 0.57mA.
Not knowing exactly which filter your machine has inside, this very well could be the normal leakage current within the filter.
What brand and part number is on your filter?

I was inspired to the idea by seeing the plug sitting in my box of electrical things as I was coming up with far worse ideas.

Part is a Corcom 5VK1.

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#43 3 years ago

While I’m here looking, the wire (orange) connecting from the fuse to the filter is not soldered well to the terminal. It’s braided wire and a few of the strands aren’t soldered in and are loose. Hard to see with a picture though.

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#47 3 years ago

Indeed, I’ve learned a lot here and thanks to all of you. I think I’ve got the not fully jointed wire fixed as well, but it’s clear I’m awful at solder. Is soldering a “watch videos on YouTube and practice” sort of learning exercise?

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