(Topic ID: 193573)

Strato-Flite bonus not stepping down

By ryanwanger

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

I'll preference this by saying that I'm newish to EMs, so this is the deepest I've gone on anything so far. (Previous experience is adjusting switches and cleaning steppers, and not much else).

When the ball ends, the bonus lights do not step down. If I use my hand to trigger the bonus stepper, then the bonus lights step down properly. Since the bonus does not run itself down to zero, this screws up the end of ball sequence.

We'll start with the easiest thing, I've not seen the bonus step down coil fire. (Aside: Looking at the schematic, I see a coil called "Bonus Reset"...I assume this is the coil I'm talking about. A little confusing since another coil is called "Bonus Step Up"...so I at first was looking for "Bonus Step Down",which isn't anywhere on the schematic.) It tests at around 8ohms. Most other coils of similar size on the machine are closer to 4ohms. Does this mean the coil is bad? I was thinking I could test it by grounding to the side rail, but either that's not working or I'm doing it wrong.

#2 6 years ago

Just poked around in my nearby Prospector, which has the same coil in question (B-26 800), and it has the same ohm measurement. So, from here...

I've cleaned and adjusted the two switches in the score motor stacks called "Pulses Bonus Reset". A multimeter shows continuity when it should, and none when it shouldn't (as I spin the score motor manually). As far as I can tell, these are opening and closing at the correct moments. One thing I did notice...

On the "Impulse" wheel on the score motor, the D switch (labeled: "Pulses Bonus Reset") lists R-B-4 and BR-W-6 as the wires. Inside the machine, these seem to be correct. The brown connects over to the other switch, the D switch on the 5 wheel of the score motor. The schematic lists that as BR-W-6 and R-BLU-1. Inside the machine, the brown wire (from Impulse D) connects to one lug, which also has a Brown/Yellow wire connected to it. This is the same Brown/Yellow that connects to the Bonus Reset coil...and there is continuity there. The wire on the other lug of the switch is in the machine is Yellow/Blue.

So these colors in the machine don't exactly match up with what's the in the schematic. Maybe that's no big deal.

Anyway, not sure where to go next. Any help is much appreciated!

#3 6 years ago

I should also note that the bonus relay is firing, it just doesn't seem to make progress since the bonus isn't counting down.

#4 6 years ago

I discovered a switch on the Double Bonus relay that is definitely open, but it buzzes as closed. Orange/red wire coming off one side, and the other side is a green wire that connects to a switch in the adjacent Triple Bonus relay.

I see no reason why this switch is registering as closed (the wires are not touching or shorting to each other), and having trouble seeing where this is represented on the schematic, or where it goes.

#5 6 years ago

I'd check and clean all of the normally open switches on the bonus relay and all of the make break switchs on the double bonus relay. There are two switches on the score motor that pulse the bonus reset coil...top switch on impulse cam b(which you've already checked) and cam 4 level d(2nd switch down from the top). I like to use a revlon nail file on em contacts to make they they are very clean and free of corrosion.

In my experience, it's usually the make break switch..

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#6 6 years ago

Thanks for the reply. I tried to state above that I have cleaned and checked both of those switches. They open and close as they should (as tested with a multimeter and hand turning the score motor).

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

I should also note that the bonus relay is firing

The Bonus relay shouldn't let go until the Bonus Unit steps down to zero. Does it?

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#8 6 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Thanks for the reply. I tried to state above that I have cleaned and checked both of those switches. They open and close as they should (as tested with a multimeter and hand turning the score motor).

What about the other switches ....the make break on the double bonus and the normally open on the bonus relay? Testing switches with a multimeter isn't always the way to go because continuity may exist outside of the switch you may be testing...hope that makes sense.

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#9 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

The Bonus relay shouldn't let go until the Bonus Unit steps down to zero. Does it?

Bonus unit is never decrementing unless I do it by hand. Trying to figure out why.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

What about the other switches ....the make break on the double bonus and the normally open on the bonus relay? Testing switches with a multimeter isn't always the way to go because continuity may exist outside of the switch you may be testing...hope that makes sense.

Can you explain this more? How would you test if a switch is registering correctly then? I guess I am used to solid state where the the visual appearance of open/closed should correspond to continuity or not. That isn't the case with EMs? One of the double bonus switches that should be open is showing continuity though visually it is open.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Can you explain this more? How would you test if a switch is registering correctly then? I guess I am used to solid state where the the visual appearance of open/closed should correspond to continuity or not. That isn't the case with EMs? One of the double bonus switches that should be open is showing continuity though visually it is open.

Sometimes there is corrosion on the contacts that prevent or limit sufficient current. Some circuits are very complex and may involve multiple relays or run through the score motor. Continuity readings might be the result of other switches on other relays making contact. It might be worth while to clean the contacts the make break switches on the double bonus relay and the normally open switches on the bonus relay with a small file so that the contacts are clean.

When double bonus is earned and the ball drains, does the bonus stepper count down?

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

When double bonus is earned and the ball drains, does the bonus stepper count down?

No, it doesn't. Also, when reaching double bonus, I can see the double bonus relay flip states, but the light doesn't come on. (The bulb is good, socket just doesn't light).

It doesn't count down on triple bonus either.

#13 6 years ago

Dont know if this helps, Ryan, but with the same/similar issue on Space Mission, and 4 sets of eyes, and several days. the issue we had was the coil was installed upside down... Quick fix, absolutely annoying, but the bonus wasnt stepping down either.. Maybe, its a silly error on yours too.

#14 6 years ago

Does the Bonus relay activate? If it does, the circuit to step down Bonus is pretty simple.

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#15 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Does the Bonus relay activate?

Yeah, as mentioned above, it does activate.

Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

the issue we had was the coil was installed upside down

Not in front of the machine right now, but what does this mean...how can a coil be installed upside down? I thought it was just either active or not...there was no directionality to the pull.

#16 6 years ago

Also, hello fellow Boulderite @howardr!

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Yeah, as mentioned above, it does activate.

Not in front of the machine right now, but what does this mean...how can a coil be installed upside down? I thought it was just either active or not...there was no directionality to the pull.

Dont know...its what came as a conclusion from a competent tech, after spending time....reversed, upside down...dont know, but the issue was no bonus countdown, and several people with skills and schematics working on it as well couldnt solve...You know Im pretty dumb on this, but thought I should mention..

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Yeah, as mentioned above, it does activate.

Then it should be a simple matter to trace the circuit in my post #14.

1 month later
#19 6 years ago

I'm back to diagnosing this. Some interesting things...

The bonus relay does fire when you put a ball in the trough. It fires and fires and fires, but the bonus doesn't count down. However if you apply slight pressure to the relay as it fires, then the bonus steps down.

Also, if you apply pressure to the second stack in the score motor, (the one that has "pulses bonus reset"), this also causes it to step down correctly.

Me and a friend have both adjusted, cleaned, etc many times over both of these sets of switches (though, we're EM noobs).

Not asking "what's the fix" here...but I just don't understand why pressure in either location helps this move along? The second stack in the score motor in particular...a multimeter shows that the switches are opening and closing as expected.

#20 6 years ago

How many turns are in the torsion spring?
How much is finger pressure being applied to the wiper biscuit?

#21 6 years ago

So we switched to trying to diagnose why the bonus was not stepping down when the game started up.

...and ended up adjusting the gap between adjacent switches in the reset relay to make it larger...which adjusted the timing of when things were happening relative to other things?

Now everything kind of works.

Yay EMs?!?

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