(Topic ID: 145005)

Strategy for determining PinGolf target scores for tournament


By mkecasey

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by accidental
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    #1 3 years ago

    I'm running a PinGolf event next month and looking for opinions from others on how to determine the target scores. Games will be set to 3 ball, but I'll also be using a 20% scale for bonus strokes. (0-20% of target is 5 strokes, 20-40% of target is 4 strokes, etc). Since I'm doing it based on score, I can't do objective based goals.

    So how should I set the target scores? These are two options I'm considering but welcome your feedback.

    1. Go off the replay/extra ball score. Downside is that score can change from game to game, which one would I use?
    2. Get a group of four players to play each game. Ideally, various skill levels. Record all scores for each game and determine the average for each. Downside is that a good player can have a bad game and could throw off the average.

    Is there another option that I haven't considered?

    #2 3 years ago

    Any way to check the audits for an average score? Throw an extra 20% on that and you have at least a baseline to test.

    If you can, set the replay value to the PAR score so the knocker goes off when they get to the score.

    #3 3 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Any way to check the audits for an average score? Throw an extra 20% on that and you have at least a baseline to test.
    If you can, set the replay value to the PAR score so the knocker goes off when they get to the score.

    Unfortunately I won't have keys to the machines and can't check the audits. The operator is tuning all of the machines up the day before the event. I suppose it's possible to get audit info then. But I'm hesitant to make the operator do more work and I'd like to start creating the scoresheets much sooner than the day before the event. But I'll definitely think about your idea. I do like it. Thanks for the suggestion.

    #4 3 years ago

    In general terms my advice is you have to KNOW each game to set good golf scores.
    Only you will know each game (assuming you play them all regularly) and can determine a good score to shoot for.

    Also having 4 different ability players all go play each game 4 times and ask them to treat each one like a competition game (maybe offer a $20 cash prize so they actually play serious), then take the average of each individuals 4 plays on each single game and go from there. (also a good idea for you to get a feel for timing of the event)

    Another gemral thing I have learned is to shoot LOWER than you think. Golf is lame and boring when too many people stroke out. Golf is a BLAST when you mix in some aces and birdies. Shoot for fun. Always better to have too manys 1s and 2s than too many 4s. It is REALLY hard to make a good golf round!

    Curious as to how you are ensuring fair recording? Picture taking? official on site at each location? make sure you have something in place for verification. Unfortunate as it may be it is best to eliminate any possible collusion from a bar crawl event like this.

    #5 3 years ago

    I think the percentage based scoring will help spread out the scores by allowing a score of 1-8 per hole.

    As far as verifying, I'm leaning towards having an official on site. But I may go the picture taking route as a backup option. If I went the photo route, do you think it's possible to ask them to take photos of all scores. But only use the photos to verify if a score sheet looks too good to be true. (Obviously, you wouldn't tell that to people in advance. You would want them to be under the assumption that all photos will be checked.)

    #6 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Another gemral thing I have learned is to shoot LOWER than you think. Golf is lame and boring when too many people stroke out. Golf is a BLAST when you mix in some aces and birdies. Shoot for fun. Always better to have too manys 1s and 2s than too many 4s. It is REALLY hard to make a good golf round!

    Curious as to how you are ensuring fair recording? Picture taking? official on site at each location? make sure you have something in place for verification. Unfortunate as it may be it is best to eliminate any possible collusion from a bar crawl event like this.

    I agree with this, in that it's a little hard to make things balanced so they are tough but fun. Might want to make this one a little on the easier side and then adjust things for next time. If a game had too many 1's, up the score a little next time. Too many 5's, bring it down.

    There was a pingolf event here a few months ago that was done really well. Scores were spot on, but there was another interesting thing done. Players were paired up by drawing names out of a hat. They shared a score card and could ensure things were proper. Won't rule out anything 100% this way, but the risk goes down quite a bit. Another option is to have players cradle up when they hit the score and wait for the score keeper. If they get it in bonus, or drain before getting a cradle, a ball sitting in the shooter lane is a decent indication that they did it on the previous ball. Again, not 100% safe, but your group might not need to be watched over as closely.

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from mkecasey:

    I think the percentage based scoring will help spread out the scores by allowing a score of 1-8 per hole.
    As far as verifying, I'm leaning towards having an official on site. But I may go the picture taking route as a backup option. If I went the photo route, do you think it's possible to ask them to take photos of all scores. But only use the photos to verify if a score sheet looks too good to be true. (Obviously, you wouldn't tell that to people in advance. You would want them to be under the assumption that all photos will be checked.)

    My thoughts FWIW.

    Golf rarely has 8 storkes so pingolf should follow. No need to really have more than 4 as a stroke out on a 3 ball game IME.

    Verifying >> I assume you are assigning 4 packs and if so then ensuring a spread of people and that no buddies get on the same 4 pack will help, but I personally would require photos for verification purposes. Set it up so predetermined order and require 1 photo per game per 4 pack? Assuming scores are set pretty well then there is some level of trust still for people that do it in 1 ball that it was actually done on ball 1? I think a good idea is "trust but verify". People, especially competitive and drinking may fudge things a bit or make a 'mistake'. Sad but kind of human nature. Best to just completely eliminate the option all together. While most people are very honest, you just are better off avoiding the possibility of any complaints right from the start.

    How many bars and games in total are you using? If you can have an official at each location that is great but obviously tough to do.

    A nice way to deal with tie breakers is use game number as importance value. For example, if we both have a total score that is tied but you hit a 1 on hole #1 and I hit a 2 on hole #1, then you would win. Both tied on hole #1, then look to hole #2.

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    My thoughts FWIW.
    Golf rarely has 8 storkes so pingolf should follow.

    You've obviously never seen me play golf

    There are three locations. 5 games at one location, 2 games at each of the others (9 holes total). I definitely appreciate your input and taking all of your ideas into consideration. I'll keep you posted with how it goes.

    #9 3 years ago

    For Pin-Masters we're fortunate enough to be able to use the scores from Nationals the day before. We'll typically base our scores on the average of Nationals day for each of the machines.

    The best secret I've found for determining par scores when timing is an issue is to simply play a game for 5 minutes, or 3 minutes, or whatever you want the average game time to be. However many points you've earned in that time you want to budget for the game, use that as the par score. Even if it takes you multiple games to play for those X number of minutes, it'll give you a good target.

    #10 3 years ago

    I have not played pin golf yet and am anxious to. I have designed lots of disc golf courses and events and agree that setting good par is important to the fun factor.

    Are scores usually always used for goals or are other things used as well, like multi ball, or make special, and can an extra ball work as a mulligan?

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from Platypus:

    Are scores usually always used for goals or are other things used as well, like multi ball, or make special, and can an extra ball work as a mulligan?

    I think it's funner to not do scores (in modern games). You can come up with some very interesting ideas that you'd never think of. In Grand Rapids we had to play WH20 and collect 4 Bigfoot hotfoots; interesting area you usually never aim for.

    But yeah it can be whatever; start multiball, start a CIU mode, score a super jackpot etc.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    play a game for 5 minutes, or 3 minutes, or whatever you want the average game time to be. However many points you've earned in that time you want to budget for the game, use that as the par score.

    that is a great tip!

    That said I would hate to have to play par on a Josh Sharpe designed course

    Pretty much a promise I would stroke out, LOL.

    #13 3 years ago

    I will say that liek golf it is fun to have some long holes (expected stroke outs) as well as some short holes (expected birdie/ ace).

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I will say that liek golf it is fun to have some long holes (expected stroke outs) as well as some short holes (expected birdie/ ace).

    That's a really good point. There can be some easier holes on the course that can be aimed to boost confidence. Even if you do this, you'll still have some folks that have a bad game and will fall short.

    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I think it's funner to not do scores (in modern games). You can come up with some very interesting ideas that you'd never think of. In Grand Rapids we had to play WH20 and collect 4 Bigfoot hotfoots; interesting area you usually never aim for.
    But yeah it can be whatever; start multiball, start a CIU mode, score a super jackpot etc.

    I definitely understand the appeal of achievements (i.e. 4 big foot hotfoots). But I think score will keep this an appealing event for the casual player. I know that we are all pretty invested in pinball and understand the in's and out's of a game quite well. But the fact is, many people don't know how to start modes or where certain achievements may be. With the score it will be a lot easier to get a casual player to understand what's going on. Plus with score based goals, you can do it however you wish. If one shot isn't working out for you, move on to a new strategy to get to that score.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from mkecasey:

    Plus with score based goals, you can do it however you wish. If one shot isn't working out for you, move on to a new strategy to get to that score.

    That's assuming people that aren't invested in pinball know diff'rent scoring strategies
    I get what you mean though...gotta find that sweet spot to keep everyone involved. I really don't know if it would be easier for any joe of the street to hit 4 Hotfoots, or compete with real players on score.

    #16 3 years ago

    Local players recently ran their first pin golf event, they based the par scores on the score the best local player could achieve in 5 minutes. Strokes went from 1-8. 1-3 if you hit the par score on those balls, and percentage based on your final score for strokes 4-8 if you didn't achieve par. I personally liked this. Hole in ones were very rare. Since many players were having 4-5 stroke holes on average, having one or two bombed games didn't really kill you.

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    interesting area you usually never aim for.

    This is my favorite thing about pin golf. With this approach you're essentially creating a very specific rule set, it can make the round really fun!

    #18 3 years ago

    Goal based PAR scores can be a bunch of fun. I did one on my Ice Fever where you had to get 3 backbox animation goals. Playing that game for points is "lit spinner all day." Making that a goal machine made everyone do something new to them and was pretty fun.

    #19 3 years ago

    I agree that objectives are more fun than score targets. And I think you can make a strong argument that this is also friendlier for casual players because of the way that it strips any game knowledge advantages out of the equation.

    When shooting for a target score you give clear advantage to people who know the most efficient way to score points on a particular game. When shooting for a specific goal everyone is in the same boat with only technical skill to separate them.

    Plus it is more fun for the group to watch players all trying to complete the same objective. For example, the goal of lighting both stars in TAF (orbit > million plus ramp) is thrilling to watch a player make repeated attempts, and the pressure associated with that. In a score-based pingolf TAF just ends up being a race to Multiball, pretty much the same as any regular game.

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