(Topic ID: 172266)

Strange wiring on Williams Ball-Index-Relay

By rolf_martin_062

4 years ago


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  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by DCRand
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#1 4 years ago

Hi
I have seen some strange wiring - Yes, I understand - the Ball-Index-Relay shall pull-in as the player makes points on a new ball - and the relay shall steady pull so when this ball is lost: The "brain of the pin" says "I am entitled to step to NEXT ball or next player or Game-Over".
I looked it up in ipdb (four player games) - up to "Pat Hand, May 1975" the pins have the wiring I understand - see JPG-1. To "Valencia, July 1975" the ipdb has no schematics. Starting with "Little Chief, Sept 1975" the wiring has changed, I show "Space Mission***, see JPG-2 - I do not really understand what the "position of the Bonus-Unit" has to do with "activating the Ball-Index-Relay".

Can You enlighten me ?, greetings Rolf

P.S.: Space Mission***: I stumbled over this strange wiring because of this topic: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-space-mission-no-ball-advance-at-23-bonus
Pat Hand is still "old fashioned" - every new ball given starts with ZERO Bonus on the Bonus-Ladder. Little Chief and Space Mission and later Pins start (more modern) with the feature (I do not really like) "every new ball starts with ONE Bonus given for free on the Bonus-Ladder" --- maybe, maybe this "strange wiring for to activate the Ball-Index-Relay" has to do with this new feature ???
I tried it on my Space Mission - I made an Extraball - it is simply given with one bonus for free.

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3 years later
#2 1 year ago

Old thread bump - but did you ever figure out the answer to why this changed?

I’m troubleshooting my Space Mission and noticed this same thing while studying the schematics. It’s not really obvious why they made this path only work on those bottom two bonus positions. Hmm?

#3 1 year ago

Also, while I'm asking academic questions about this - what is the point of the ball index relay on Space Mission? My understanding is that it's used to ensure the active ball/player only advance if points have been scored (or if a tilt occurred). But on Space Mission you can't roll through the top lanes without scoring points. So what's the point on this game? It makes sense on a game where you could roll all the way to the outhole without scoring.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from LeChuck:

what is the point of the ball index relay on Space Mission?

Sometime the outhole kicker wasn't strong enough and the ball would roll back into the outhole. This would allow the kicker to try again without losing a ball.

I am inferring that the 1or 2 on the bonus ladder is for the same issue. You get one free bonus for the start of a ball. by including 2 it allows for a misaligned bonus unit. or a stepper that fires twice by mistake. So you get to plunge the ball again if you score no points or only one bonus.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

Sometime the outhole kicker wasn't strong enough and the ball would roll back into the outhole. This would allow the kicker to try again without losing a ball.

Weird. It seems like it would be futile for them to try to cover all the possible failure scenarios like that. Was that a frequent failure on machines? I guess I could see them covering the most common failures / complaints seen in the field.

One other scenario actually happened to me today - plugged in the machine and started a game, and the ball was somewhere on the playfield (instead of the outhole - yanked power in the middle of a game last night). So the ball index relay prevented me from losing that ball atleast.

Quoted from ArgosySK:

I am inferring that the 1or 2 on the bonus ladder is for the same issue. You get one free bonus for the start of a ball. by including 2 it allows for a misaligned bonus unit. or a stepper that fires twice by mistake. So you get to plunge the ball again if you score no points or only one bonus.

What’s curious to me is how both of those paths are in series. So the relay only fires if you score points with 0 or 1 bonus advances. Of course in a normal working game, bonus advances always score points .. so it’s still a little odd why they wouldn’t just go by scoring points as before.

I’ll have to double check the logic where the ball index relay switches are used. I can’t think of a scenario where adding that path through the bonus unit makes sense. But I guess there must have been one or they wouldn’t have bothered.

Another academic question - can the match unit on Space Mission actually give an extra ball as a reward? The manual only mentions it giving a credit, and the extra ball adjustment is described for high scores and the alternating outlane specials. But the schematic shows the match output going through that same adjustment jack (even though by the time it fires, you would have already tripped ball advance, player reset, and game over). Not sure why they didn’t connect it directly to the credit path instead. Hmm?

#6 1 year ago

Hi LeChuck +
I am frightened a bit of "digging into the strange things on Space Mission" - I need some time.
Three years ago I said "I must not know everything in every pin - I let it be an mystery ...".

As I need some time to "dig in" again --- do You happen to know the "(unique) Tilt Rollover" ? Read here https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1072 on Grand Prix the "Notable Features" - click on the text ((unique) Tilt Rollover) - You get to here https://www.ipdb.org/glossary.php#Tilt_Rollover --- and in the text there is "A list of the Williams games having this tilt rollover is here" --- and when You click-on You will see the list https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?ft=tilt.rollover&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced
Well - this list is incomplete --- for sure the Space Mission and the Space Odyssey also have this feature "(unique) Tilt Rollover". Do You find it in the schematics ? - do You want to discuss the feature ? Greetings Rolf

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

As I need some time to "dig in" again --- do You happen to know the "(unique) Tilt Rollover" ? Read here https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1072 on Grand Prix the "Notable Features" - click on the text ((unique) Tilt Rollover) - You get to here https://www.ipdb.org/glossary.php#Tilt_Rollover --- and in the text there is "A list of the Williams games having this tilt rollover is here" --- and when You click-on You will see the list https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?ft=tilt.rollover&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced
Well - this list is incomplete --- for sure the Space Mission and the Space Odyssey also have this feature "(unique) Tilt Rollover". Do You find it in the schematics ? - do You want to discuss the feature ?

I've heard brief mentions of this, but hadn't read that glossary description before. Interesting trick with using a magnet to lift the gates. I guess this makes another case where the ball index relay comes in handy. It would be interesting to know what all kinds of problems they saw back in the day, and how the games evolved to prevent them.

I've attached the schematic portion that shows this tilt path. Pretty much just what the glossary says - if you close that spinner lane switch, the path through the NC ball index relay switch will fire the tilt relay; otherwise once you score and open that path it won't ever fire.

Space Mission - tilt rollover schematic.PNG
#8 1 year ago

Hi LeChuck
here in Switzerland it is time 22:50 - time to go to sleep. Look in Your pin at the switch to actuate the unique tilt rollover --- the have a look at my JPG --- "I would like to see it (the switch(es)) drawn this way". More to come by tomorrow. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: My JPG is an old one.

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#9 1 year ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi LeChuck
here in Switzerland it is time 22:50 - time to go to sleep. Look in Your pin at the switch to actuate the unique tilt rollover --- the have a look at my JPG --- "I would like to see it (the switch(es)) drawn this way". More to come by tomorrow. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: My JPG is an old one.[quoted image]

I agree that it's a little more clear to show everything connected to the switch. I'm guessing the schematics would be a spaghetti mess if they did it that way though. I'm pretty happy with the layout of the original schematics except that it needs a list of locations for relay switches (which can atleast be found in the manual) and other switches like this one. I've been working on a spreadsheet to track all this, as suggested by someone in another thread.

#10 1 year ago

Hi LeChuck
I think I got it - the (mentioned in post-1) "strange stuff, Bonus-Unit Position (-1 and) -2 and the activating of the Ball-Index-Relay" - when I play a One-Player-Game through all the balls and never make an Extraball: Every time the pin kicks-out to the Shooter-Alley a new ball - by then the Ball-Index-Relay is non pulling. Space-Mission is a rather modern pin - every new ball given starts with ONE Bonus given on the Bonus-Ladder - I launch the ball - making the first time some points: The Ball-Index-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling for the rest of the life of this ball.
(But) when I make an Extraball: The pin kicks-out the ball to the Shooter-Alley (Ball-Index-Relay is non pulling, I have one bonus) - AND THE Extraball-Relay is still pulling - I launch the ball - making the first time some points: THE EXTRABALL-RELAIS is made non pulling - making the second time some points: The Ball-Index-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling for the rest of the life of this ball.
Making the first time some points well can be "making points AND make a bonus" - therefore the position "2" on the Bonus-Unit is needed to make the Ball-Index-Relay to pull-in.
See the first JPG - (do not look at "encircled orange") - can You make an description using "my blue numbers" what the pin is doing "not having made an Extraball" --- can You make an description using "my blue numbers and my green letters" what the pin is doing "having made an Extraball" ?
So I have an explanation for "why is Bonus-Unit-Position-2 also wired for to activate the Ball-Index-Relay (not only Bonus-Unit-Position-1) ?". But still I do not have an explanation for "why is the activation of the Ball-Index-Relay wired through position(s) on the Bonus-Unit ?".

Other problem - my disliking the way the schematics is drawn (unique tilt rollover): My first JPG "encircled orange" shows the original schematics --- in the second JPG I show "marked orange" how I would like to have the schematics drawn --- electrically it is the same - but the second JPG shows a bit better "reality in the pin". Greetings Rolf

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#11 1 year ago

Thank you for reopening this old post, and the following discussion. I have been chasing down a problem on my Space Mission as have had time, for a month or so and some of your discussion may give ideas on how to track my problem. Short description is most of the time, ball ends, new starts, everything fine. Part of the time, kicks out new ball, then keeps cycling kick out sequence including kick out coil fires, bonus unit fires to add the first bonus amount, match unit rotates, etc. This can be for just one additional kick out cycle, a few cycles, or endlessly until either turn off game, or lift pf and manually advance the bonus unit.

Will use your discussion and diagrams to work on figuring out my problem. Thanks again.

#12 1 year ago

Hi DCRand
I suggest You start Your own topic (have the words Space Mission in the title) - tell us about the problems in Your Space Mission. When we / You have "sometimes" faults: It is good to use 24Volt-Test-Lights clipped-on permanent, play many games and have an eye on the Test-Light(s) - waiting for the "sometimes fault" to happen - then the question: What did the Test-Light(s) show (?). I call them SteveFury Testlights (two cheap 12Volt-car-bulbs mounted one behind the other) - see here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-lady-luck-scores-keep-resetting#post-5184163 .
A tricky place in Space Mission is the Bonus-Unit and its Zero-Position switches. Look at the picture in here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-space-mission-no-ball-advance-at-23-bonus#post-3424141 --- have the pin toggled off and the main power cord unplugged - manually step up and step down - do the switches open and close nicely ? contact-points clean ? wires truely soldered-on ? (grab each wire and gently pull a bit) Greetings Rolf

#13 1 year ago

DCRand - Interesting problem. It definitely helps if you can isolate exactly what is and isn’t happening when it acts up. A video would be good too if possible. From there we can figure out where to zero in.

You mention that lifting the playfield and stepping the bonus unit fixes it. Do you mean that in all cases the bonus unit is not stepping? It didn’t really sound that way from your initial description (just that it’s stuck in a loop). Is the player or ball number advancing when it gets in this loop? Sounds like not .. I wonder if perhaps your outhole switch is closing (and the open ball index switch we’ve been discussing is causing it to replay the same player/ball over and over - especially if the bonus unit isn’t stepping past zero).

I haven’t charted out yet what order exactly it does everything after a ball drain, although I’ve looked at a lot of the individual steps. I’ve got a loosely related problem now too where it’s going through one extra cycle on game reset before kicking out the ball. Of course that seems to have only started after I was under the hood adjusting switches last night .. sigh

#14 1 year ago

Thank you both. Hadn't yet reached the "I completely give up and will have to start a thread on Pinside" point yet, when I saw your discussion.

Rolf: Thanks for the suggestions. Will check out the test light, and zero position switch links when have a minute.

LeChuck: Bonus unit is stepping repeatedly, so either lift the pf, or during tests for this problem already had it lifted. If (wearing rubber gloves) I manually push the bonus unit step coil and arm while it is repeating, the repeating stops. Have checked the switches in this linkage multiple times and can't see what in this area would start, or why that would stop, the repeating.

Out hole switch was the first place I checked, and with pf lifted close this switch manually to simulate a ball return when troubleshooting this problem. I also have been trying through the schematic to track order of what happens, when, after a ball drain. But still have somewhat limited schematic reading / tracing skills.

And know the feeling of "fixing" something, only to have something seemingly unrelated rise up. Having that problem now on a Wms Twenty Grand. But that is a whole different story / thread.

Thank you both for the input, will keep "whacking away" at it and if truly reach a dead end will start a new thread.

#15 1 year ago

DCRand - Here is a great thread to get an idea of how the entire game works:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-machine-complete-circuit-description-2-bally-monte-carlo

It's for a different game and manufacturer, but the logic and flow of everything is very similar to Space Mission (many of the circuits and behaviors are identical). When I get a chance I'd like to writeup a thread similar to that for Space Mission. I've charted out most of the individual pieces already, so it just needs to be written up and documented properly. I've looked at that thread many times while debugging my Space Mission to understand how things work.

#16 1 year ago

For the ball drain scenario specifically, the flow should be something like the below:

1. Ball goes in the drain and closes the outhole switch, which causes the bonus relay to energize
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2. Bonus relay switch closing starts the score motor
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3. Bonus relay switch closed with the score motor turning causes one of two things to happen repeatedly until it reaches its zero point:
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a. Bonus unit reset fires up to 5 times per revolution and 1000 pts is scored each time (double bonus inactive)
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b. Bonus unit reset fires up to 2 times per revolution and 1000 pts is scored twice each time (double bonus active)
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4. Bonus unit reaching zero de-energizes the bonus relay, and causes the outhole relay to energize once the score motor finishes its revolution
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5. Outhole relay switch closing starts the score motor
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6. Outhole relay switch closed and score motor cam 1 switch closed fires the ball count unit step up (i.e. advancing to the next ball number)
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7. Ball count unit step up EOS closing causes the player reset relay to energize
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8. Player reset relay switch closed and score motor cam 2 switch closed fires the player unit reset coil (i.e. resetting back to player 1)
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9. Outhole relay switch closed and score motor cam 3 switch closed fires the bonus unit step up coil (resetting it back to 1000 for the next ball)
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10. Outhole relay switch open and score motor cam 3 switch open de-energizes the ball index relay (resetting it until points are scored on the next ball)
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11. Outhole relay switch closed and score motor cam 4 switch closed fires the ball release coil (kicking the ball into the shooter lane)
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To keep it simple for troubleshooting, this assumes a single player game, no extra ball active, some points have been scored (energizing the ball index relay), it's not the last ball, etc. There are also some minor things omitted that fire elsewhere in the schematics or the paths that keep these relays locked on after energizing. But hopefully this gives a general idea of the flow for troubleshooting purposes.

Feel free to ask questions or let me know if something doesn't look right, this is based on skimming the schematics quickly while I'm at work. I do admit too that there are a couple things that don't make sense after typing this up (like how exactly the long dwell cam timings work for the double bonus 1000 pt scoring).

#17 1 year ago

First question, should I start a new thread? Was just at that point tonight when read your latest post. Followed the logic, and can't find any switches that seem out of place, or making or not making contact. But again, this is an intermittent problem. However, one "clue" maybe. When the game gets stuck in the ball return repeat loop, it doesn't advance the ball count unit. So somewhere, that step is being skipped as the reset routine repeats.

Also read the Monte Carlo link, good info, but maybe I am too tired tonight to really digest it and translate to the Space Mission problem.

Rolf, also read your Space Mission diagnosis link with Mfoam, and it helped with understanding of some of ball return / bonus unit / outhole logic. But didn't lead me to resolving my problem. But do want to let you know the bonus unit does reset properly from 0 to 1 and back. And switches in the proper locations and making good contact at 0 and 1.

#18 1 year ago

One last note. After writing the above, and was giving up for the night. Ran the game through a couple of game cycles. At one point, on ball 4, started the repeating ball return cycle, turned it off and for first time when turned it back on and started a new game it started the repeat cycle at kick out of ball 1, through two on and off power / start game cycles. Then while repeating, lifted the play field, manually pushed up on the arm that is attached to the add bonus index coil, and repeat cycle stopped. Arrrgggghhh

#19 1 year ago

If I’m reading the description right, it’s in a loop repeating all of the steps I posted above right (except that ball count doesn’t advance)? Do you see the bonus unit cycling from off to 1000 each time too? That is a good clue to work with.

I’ll have to stew on it, but if the entire cycle is repeating then there are only a couple switches that could kick that off - outhole switch (picture 1) and bonus relay switch (picture 3). Since fiddling with the bonus unit mechanism fixes it, it sounds more like the bonus relay switch is intermittently closing (which energizes the bonus relay since it’s not at zero, and the whole cycle repeats). Not advancing the ball count could be a side effect of the ball index relay turning off.

Do you see the ball count advance once and then never again as it repeats? Or does it never advance at all? That gives a clue whether steps 6-8 are ever happening.

#20 1 year ago

One other possibility (depending on what exactly you see the bonus unit / lights doing) - if the bonus unit is at fault, then the make/break switch in step (4) could get stuck in the zero position (normally after the firing in step (9) it should toggle back so that only the outhole switch can cause the process to happen again). If that switch failed to toggle back then it would repeat everything starting at step (4) again once the score motor turned off.

In that case though you would probably not see it alternating off/1000/off/1000/ .. so if you can confirm what the bonus unit/relay/lights are doing it should help give more clues

#21 1 year ago

Only had a few minutes this morning before work. But ran through 5 game cycles before 1 repeat incident. Then next 3 game cycles only repeated on 3 balls, then for only 2 to 4 repeat cycles each time before stopping on its own. But answered for certain:

Bonus unit does cycle between 0 and 1 on each repeat.

Bonus relay only fires one time, then doesn't fire again during repeat.

Also, was able to get it to repeat in no points scored just closing the outhole switch condition.

Have to get ready for work now, will try to look at it again tonight some time.

Thanks to both of you for your help. Been working on pins just short of 4 years now, and still run into these issues where just can't figure it out on my own. And let me know if and when you want me to start a new thread.

#22 1 year ago

What's curious to me about your last post is that it's cycling between off / 1000 .. but then you say the bonus relay is not energizing on each repeat. Are you certain about that? Unless something weird is going on, the bonus relay has to energize in order to reset the bonus unit back to 0 / off (since its switch is directly in the path of the bonus unit reset coil). You might doublecheck that, and also just doublecheck each step of the flow based on the photos above to see where it's getting off track.

On a side note, I don't have a lot of great tools to debug this either beyond multimeter, jumper wires, and a test light. I am spoiled by all the fancy tools I have for debugging my other hobbies (scopes, logic analyzers, emulators, microprocessor pods, etc). I wish there was a good way to probe a handful of things around the game and watch them simultaneously.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from LeChuck:

What's curious to me about your last post is that it's cycling between off / 1000 .. but then>

Will double check could be wrong about that. Frustrating part is it is intermittent. Yesterday happened 3 times, and max 4 repeat cycles, in 8 simulated games.

Re your side note, I think that is why the SS pinball guys hate to or won’t work on em’s. No diagnostics.

#24 1 year ago

Update, through 6 more simulated games. Repeated 2 cycles twice, and 3 cycles twice, and definitely the bonus relay only fired one time. It did not fire on the repeats.

#25 1 year ago

Second update. Isolated problem. It’s mechanical. Arms of bonus unit not always resetting properly.

#26 1 year ago

Now just have to fix it.

#27 1 year ago

Fixed (I I think) 6 games, no repeating. It wasn’t actually stepper arms, but related. When the arms engage on the stepper gear teeth to count down the bonus. There is a very slight double action in their making the gear move. The three switch contacts were adjusted to make or break contact on the second part of this slight double action.

By adjusting all three to make or break contact on the first part of the action of the gear / switch arm, it stopped the repeating. Hope this explanation makes sense.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from DCRand:

Fixed (I I think) 6 games, no repeating. It wasn’t actually stepper arms, but related. When the arms engage on the stepper gear teeth to count down the bonus. There is a very slight double action in their making the gear move. The three switch contacts were adjusted to make or break contact on the second part of this slight double action.
By adjusting all three to make or break contact on the first part of the action of the gear / switch arm, it stopped the repeating. Hope this explanation makes sense.

Interesting, that's one that is pretty tough to troubleshoot systematically. The stepper units being mechanically erratic can cause anything. Did you happen to figure out how that correlated to your symptoms? Atleast it works now, fingers crossed ..

On a side note, I got a new test light from Amazon and some long leads and was finally able to figure out my issue too (player number advancing beyond the number set for the game). I knew it was somewhere in the path of steps 6 - 8 above. I had already adjusted score motor switch 1-A, but apparently not enough. The light confirmed that it wasn't closing whenever it failed. Adjusted that again and so far in two days it hasn't failed yet.

Hurrah for fixing problems!

rolf_martin_062 - I still don't have a good answer for the bonus unit being in the ball index relay path (unless it's to prevent some corner case scenario, field failures, cheating, etc). But I had one theory last night about bonus unit positions 1 and 2 being tied together - if your first score of the turn was an advance (e.g. by rolling down the top/center lane), then the advance and the points will fire simultaneously. That means you don't know exactly which position the bonus unit will be on when the points fire .. so tying them together ensures that nothing gets missed.

#29 1 year ago

nteresting, that's one that is pretty tough to troubleshoot systematically. The stepper units being mechanically erratic can cause anything. Did you happen to figure out how that correlated to your symptoms?

All the electrical testing and walking through the steps you provided kept pointing back to the bonus unit. But it seemed like there was nothing wrong until I took slow mo video on iPhone and noticed the two step motion. Then physically played with arms thinking they were the problem in that the two step motion was the fault.

Unscrewed stepper, and pushed coil plungers manually checking arm movement. Didn’t see a problem with the arms. But that was when I noticed the switches open / closed on the second part of the two step motion. Adjusted the switches to work on the first step on a hunch. And it seemed to work. So far.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from DCRand:

The stepper units being mechanically erratic can cause anything.

Quoted from DCRand:

All the electrical testing and walking through the steps you provided kept pointing back to the bonus unit. But it seemed like there was nothing wrong until I took slow mo video. on iPhone and noticed the two step motion

Excellent!!! I upvoted your post, DCRand
Can you post your video?

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from DCRand:

nteresting, that's one that is pretty tough to troubleshoot systematically. The stepper units being mechanically erratic can cause anything. Did you happen to figure out how that correlated to your symptoms?
All the electrical testing and walking through the steps you provided kept pointing back to the bonus unit. But it seemed like there was nothing wrong until I took slow mo video on iPhone and noticed the two step motion. Then physically played with arms thinking they were the problem in that the two step motion was the fault.
Unscrewed stepper, and pushed coil plungers manually checking arm movement. Didn’t see a problem with the arms. But that was when I noticed the switches open / closed on the second part of the two step motion. Adjusted the switches to work on the first step on a hunch. And it seemed to work. So far.

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Excellent!!! I upvoted your post, dcrand

Can you post your video?

I didn't think Pinside allowed video posts.

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from DCRand:

I didn't think Pinside allowed video posts.

Post it to youtube and paste a link here.

#34 1 year ago

Not sure I did this correctly, first time trying. But below is link to slo mo video of bonus unit. I think.

#35 1 year ago

Excellent, thanks DCRand !!! I upvoted your post.

#36 1 year ago

Hi DCRand
You made an good video (post-34) - I see the B1-26-800 (step down) coil fire several times (and I see the two-step motion) - I see the blades on the switch actuated by rod mounted on the gear. I then see A22-550 (step up) coil fire to do the one step-up for the next ball in play. I believe Your post-11 is the description of the fault You had --- and I have problems to match "video" and ="post-11".
Was the fault "attempt but not successfully done" stepping Up ? Did You make the video after You fixed the fault ? Greetings Rolf

#37 1 year ago

That two step motion is actually normal, because advancing it is a two step process. First the top horizontal lever comes down ( to keep it from springing back). This causes the cam to move slightly until the lever catches a tooth. Then the side vertical lever engages the cam as the horizontal lever lifts back up. This causes the second movement as a cam tooth catches on this vertical lever.

If the levers would land precisely at the edge of a tooth and have almost no movement, it would look like one step. but it would have very little margin for error.

#38 1 year ago

Hi edednedy +
I know the "two step" motion in stepping down an single-reset stepper - we often can see it when the Replay-Counter is stepped down starting a new game - the "two step" happens for to hinder a wroam, bang full-reset. Depending on the answers to my questions*** in post-36 I may have to brood over the schematics.
One more question***: Did the fault only happen "in Double Bonus" - only happen in "Single Bonus" - happened in Double Bonus and also in Single Bonus ? Greetings Rolf

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi edednedy +
I know the "two step" motion in stepping down an single-reset stepper - we often can see it when the Replay-Counter is stepped down starting a new game - the "two step" happens for to hinder a wroam, bang full-reset. Depending on the answers to my questions*** in post-36 I may have to brood over the schematics.
One more question***: Did the fault only happen "in Double Bonus" - only happen in "Single Bonus" - happened in Double Bonus and also in Single Bonus ? Greetings Rolf

Rolf, and all, video was before problem fixed. Have now played 11 games, no repeat problem. Switches / contacts were adjusted after this video, very slightly to the left as you look at the unit, so that they open or close on the first part of the two step motion.

1 week later
#40 1 year ago

Epilogue: after all that, appx game 15 problem came back. After more slow mo video, and with game off slowly going through mechanical action of bonus unit. Found what I think is the eos switch under the add bonus rocker arm was touching the bottom of the arm. By adjusting the switch so it only touched at the end of the stroke, now into 20 games with no problem. My takeaway, was a combination of slight switch maladjustments That needed correction.

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