Flash Gordon
Bally, 1981Quoted from tomdrum:Stepping back, this was a fully working game that got restored. Display board was re-done with all new lamps and braid. I have 2 PF's that were swapped and tested in this cabinet. One is mine and the other for another Pinsider. I'm going to pull this PF tomorrow and install the other one to see what differences there are.
Gotta be a short in a socket.
Pulled the PF and tested every feature lamp with a 5V wall wart. All were working. I then pulled the PF out of a FBII next to FG and installed a FG MPU and the PF. Every non-working feature lamp worked now and the drop targets reset. Ran a switch test and the switches that didn't register in the FG cabinet now did.
Any ideas?
I talked to Tom and suggested he look at tilt wiring and anything else in the cabinet or head that might be pinched, shorted, or accidentally swapped (wires swapped in a connector). I also recommended he use his logic probe and probe strobes and returns.
I've hit a brick wall with this. Double checked all connectors, tested all intermediate connectors for continuity and I'm getting nowhere.
I delivered the customer's PF to a friend who has his cabinet repainted and he will install that PF next weekend to test it.
I just can't wrap my head around how 2 PF's could have the same lights out and the same solenoid issues when installed in a cabinet which had no issues before painting and most issues happened after replacing some bulbs.
Just to revisit some previous tests I think were unanswered, barakandl mentioned hooking up a logic probe to the lamp driver board, specifically probe pins 2, 3, 21 and 22 of the decoder chip at U1. The results should be very similar - are they?
I think barakandl also mentioned to remove switch harness connectors at J2 and J3 from the MPU board - any change with the suspect lamps?
Probe the grey-yellow switch strobe #2 wire at any of the drop target bank switches with your logic-probe.
Compare the logic probe indication to a switch strobe #1 wire, say the orange wire at the left flipper return lane switch. The results should be identical.
Then just out of interest with the machine OFF, measure the resistance between these two switch strobe wires with respect to ground (one multi-meter lead on ground, the other multi-meter lead on the switch strobe wire - resistance readings should be about the same).
I did those tests with PF #2 last week but that PF after testing 100% in Fireball II is now at a friend's waiting to get installed in it's cabinet.
Today I installed PF#1 (mine) into the game. Same lights out as PF #2. During switch test I found a bad switch cap on a pop bumper so I replaced it. Next lamp test, all would flash but dim. Shut it off and raised PF to test voltage on feature lamps and the F1 fuse blew. Replaced it with a 15 amp breaker and tried it again after making certain there wasn't anything crossed where I soldered the cap in. Tried pulling every connector associated with the feature lamps and it blew every time.
Joy joy.
Quoted from tomdrum:I did those tests with PF #2 last week but that PF after testing 100% in Fireball II is now at a friend's waiting to get installed in it's cabinet.
So in your mind did the test of the Flash Gordon playfield in the Fireball II cabinet say the "cool LED" issue is due to something in your Flash Gordon cabinet?
Quoted from tomdrum:Shut it off and raised PF to test voltage on feature lamps and the F1 fuse blew...
Tried pulling every connector associated with the feature lamps and it blew every time.
If pulling the three playfield connectors from the lamp driver board still causes the fuse to blow, likely the feature lamp 6V braid wire on the playfield is shorting to something else power/ground related on the playfield.
Quoted from Quench:So in your mind did the test of the Flash Gordon playfield in the Fireball II cabinet say the "cool LED" issue is due to something in your Flash Gordon cabinet?
Yes. PF #2 had all lamps working fine.
Quoted from Quench:If pulling the three playfield connectors from the lamp driver board still causes the fuse to blow, likely the feature lamp 6V braid wire on the playfield is shorting to something else power/ground related on the playfield.
Yes, I believe that. I'm going to start pulling the PF wiring loom leads that power the braid when time permits to isolate the issue. Just weird behavior.
Quoted from tomdrum:Yes. PF #2 had all lamps working fine.
So to clarify both Flash Gordon playfields exhibited the same feature lamp issue in your Flash Gordon cabinet?
Has the playfield you returned to your friend been put back in it's original cabinet and what's the outcome?
Quoted from Quench:So to clarify both Flash Gordon playfields exhibited the same feature lamp issue in your Flash Gordon cabinet?
That's correct.
Has the playfield you returned to your friend been put back in it's original cabinet and what's the outcome?
Not yet. Post 383.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/weatherbymag-s-bally-amp-stern-restoration-blog/page/8
What's the chance two wires were repinned (same color codes) to the wrong locations in the head?
Let us know when you get past your fuse blowing issue.
Solved the fuse issue. When I lowered the PF and fired it up, all the lamps were working now except two at the 3 drop arrows. Had lamp test running and the 2 bonus circles were dimmer than the rest. Jumpered the power braid from another strand and they went immediately brighter. I connect the dimmer braid to the one I had jumpered with a short piece of braid and soldered them together. Next start up it reverted back to the same lamps out as before. Very weird. Did these tests:
I think barakandl also mentioned to remove switch harness connectors at J2 and J3 from the MPU board - any change with the suspect lamps?
No change
Probe the grey-yellow switch strobe #2 wire at any of the drop target bank switches with your logic-probe.
Compare the logic probe indication to a switch strobe #1 wire, say the orange wire at the left flipper return lane switch. The results should be identical.
They were the same.
Then just out of interest with the machine OFF, measure the resistance between these two switch strobe wires with respect to ground (one multi-meter lead on ground, the other multi-meter lead on the switch strobe wire - resistance readings should be about the same)
They were the same.
As far as testing the Lamp board U1 pins, how are they they numbered? I'm running a Weebley.
DSCN9900 (2) (resized).JPGQuoted from barakandl:[quoted image]
Thank you. Assuming that pinout diagram gets rotated 90 degrees to the left in relation to the picture I posted, logic probe results are the same.
Quoted from tomdrum:I connect the dimmer braid to the one I had jumpered with a short piece of braid and soldered them together.
A "dimmer braid" seems to indicate a braid from a different power source. Are you sure you aren't mixing G.I. braid with feature lamp braid? Might be time to post some closeup pictures of the underside of the playfield.
Quoted from tomdrum:As far as testing the Lamp board U1 pins, how are they they numbered?
The divot you see on the bottom left corner also indicates where pin 1 is.
Are you having the same switch matrix problem with this playfield as you were with the previous playfield?
I went tonight and helped with the installation of the other PF I did, the one tested in my FBII at my friend's shop. Dropped it in and every lamp worked, solenoid test was good and switch test was clean after manually lifting the single drop target.
The previous switch matrix issue was fixed with a new cap on a lower target.
I'll be messing with mine tomorrow.
Quoted from tomdrum:I went tonight and helped with the installation of the other PF I did, the one tested in my FBII at my friend's shop. Dropped it in and every lamp worked, solenoid test was good and switch test was clean after manually lifting the single drop target.
The previous switch matrix issue was fixed with a new cap on a lower target.
I'll be messing with mine tomorrow.
Update. I removed the the jumper between 2 feature lamp braids and all lights working now but 5. Two of those would not light when jumpered. The center feature lamp string is still dimmer than the others. Followed the power braid and it does't touch GI anywhere. That string is powered by 2 solid blue blue wires from the loom which matches up with the rectifier wiring in the schematic. One of the two wires showed 5.4VDC, the other nothing.
Ran a solenoid test next. The upper 3 drop target assembly would never fire. In it's #7 position the saucer down lever would fire instead for it's 2nd time. Very weird. It's been running an OE SDB which was updated so just as a test I installed a new Alltek SDB I had. Immediately at fire up the F3 fuse blew on the rectifier.
Searched previous threads and it was recommended to pull the J4 lamp, J1 Aux lamp, J1 sound and all displays and then fire it up. Did that and the fuse still blew.
"One step foward, 2 steps back." Other PF I did exactly as this one in it's cabinet.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from tomdrum:Update. I removed the the jumper between 2 feature lamp braids and all lights working now but 5. Two of those would not light when jumpered. The center feature lamp string is still dimmer than the others. Followed the power braid and it does't touch GI anywhere. That string is powered by 2 solid blue blue wires from the loom which matches up with the rectifier wiring in the schematic. One of the two wires showed 5.4VDC, the other nothing.
Lets see some clear pictures of the underside showing the braid areas of concern.
Quoted from tomdrum:Ran a solenoid test next. The upper 3 drop target assembly would never fire. In it's #7 position the saucer down lever would fire instead for it's 2nd time.
This could happen if there's a bad connection either side of the blue-red wire between MPU J4-3 and SDB J4-5. However this will also cause other missing/wrong solenoids to activate.
Quoted from tomdrum:I installed a new Alltek SDB I had. Immediately at fire up the F3 fuse blew on the rectifier.
Shorted 5 volt regulator on the Alltek SDB maybe.
Quoted from Quench:Shorted 5 volt regulator on the Alltek SDB maybe.
Installed a 2nd new Alltek SDB that came with the 1st. Fuse problem gone now. Must of been defective. Emailed Dave.
I'll work on the rest of the issues soon. Have multiple games coming and going in the next few days.
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Ann Arbor, MI