This issue came up in another thread, but since it's mired in thousands of posts, I think it warrants a clearer conversation.

Also, it doesn't JUST impact the folks stuck in the Predator fiasco, it impacts ANY companies trying to (mis)use Paypal for their preordering.

Simply put, Paypal does not allow for pre-ordering purchases. They require the product is SHIPPED within 20 days of payment. TWENTY DAYS!

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/article/?solutionId=FAQ1488&topicID=SECURITY_PROTECTIONS_US&m=TCI

As such, the standard policy for them to accept a claim against a purchase is limited to 45 days.

preorder4.jpg

So folks, stop using paypal for ANY pinball machine pre-orders with ANY company! You will be operating outside their standard ToS.... and the sellers should know this!

Somebody cranking out mods on the side for $20, 50 - $100- sure use paypal.
But if someone fancies themself a "pinball manufacturer" and intends to collect hundreds of thousands of dollars (millions?), then they can bloody well open a REAL credit card merchant account like other REAL businesses do.

Well, DUH, yah...

But I'm trying to appeal to the kids that don't think "abstinence" works...

If you MUST participate in high risk behavior, at least use some PROTECTION.

Then he'll go down as just a liar, not a liar AND a thief.

But there's already a thread for that.

So, my post wasn't to cast aspersions on ALL projects, but to simply state PAYPAL could very well offer little to no protection for pre-ordering per THEIR OWN terms of service.

So, regardless of whether you're buying from the crooks or the heros in this hobby, paypal is not the right tool if you're looking for risk protection.

Well, in some cases - it *IS* different - that's what I was trying to share.

Specifically when it comes to buyer protection, it extends for a much shorter time than many credit cards do themselves.

And, while some might be covered here because they fund their paypal with a credit card, many people do not. They fund paypal via bank drafts and/or use existing balances from trades/sales/etc.

In THOSE cases, using paypal is MUCH different than simply using a credit card.

Other than that, I don't think we're disagreeing.

Na.

Paypal is just fine. People like to piss and moan, but they get the job done. Its only when people don't read the rules or otherwise have unreal expectations that they have issues.

I remember buying crap through the mail and having to send checks and money orders.... its a helluva lot better than those days!

Agreed.

Paypal is HEAVILY (insanely?) slanted towards protecting BUYERS. Except for the folks that think they're pulling as "fast one" on paypal and pay using "paypal gift" - they are potentially screwing themselves- but I have little sympathy for them since they're already trying to scam the system...

Not so much sellers.

I don't hesitate to use if for small online purchases (with AMEX funding as backup).