I included the "(quality)" qualifier for a reason! Those exceptions are why you should use a remote battery holder.

Hard to know what you can trust, Energizer and Duracell are quality brands I've seen leak in package.

Used Varta Photo batteries for years in cameras. Finally had one leak, after using hundreds. Varta guaranteed they wouldn't leak, or they would repair or replace the product.

Sent them a motor drive that batteries leaked in. Their response? They didn't think the batteries leaking caused the failure!

Went back to Energizers shortly therafter.

Now yer talkin!

I agree, and have voted with my feet by employing a mixture of all three options (remote, lithium, NVRAM) depending on the machine but tend to start with a remote holder with lithium batteries.

As cool as those NVRAMs are, I just placed a large order with Pinballlife, am doing some pricy work on the rear axle of my truck, have to eat , and still need some money leftover for Jack. It is a luxury that is just not in the budget at this time. Plus I have mastered the $2 remote battery holder, and I still have a few more to do.

I have NVRAM's in 2 of my pins and will do the 2 other's soon and put the coin type in TZ.

It's a personal thing I guess but I'd prefer NVRAM and never have to worry again.

I installed NVRAM into my Diner, Earthshaker, DE Simpsons and Twister that are in my current collection.

Also installed one into Monopoly and Baywatch before selling them so I wouldn't get a call 2 years later from the buyers due to battery damage. Sold a Demolition Man recently that I put a new PinLED MPU into that also had a NVRAM installed. And yes, that original MPU has acid damage even though it did not have any switch errors but no longer held memory.

Some of the people I sold machines to are surprised to hear pinball machines even have batteries. That makes me think that these people would never periodically check on the batteries even after me disclosing it during the sale as regular maintenance on the machine. At least these 3 that I sold, the buyers will not have to worry about it in the future.

The NVRAM make good Christmas gifts too for my pinball pals. I already have given a couple away.

In short, I truly do not like batteries. Though, I will be installing lithium batteries into TZ so I can keep the game fully functional and worry free for a few more years.

I don't think anyone answered the one question someone raised: someone said that with nvram if the power is unplugged, data is lost, is that true? It didn't sound right, but I didn't see anyone respond.

That makes no sense, and completely goes against the purpose of NVRAM. All data is held just fine with NVRAM, just as if the game had batteries. No data is lost with anyPin NVRAM or any other NVRAM solution.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Only the real time clock is lost when the game is off/unplugged. All other settings would remain in the NVRAM.

That's not exactly correct though. The clock is definitely not lost. All clock functions work exactly as they should. Midnight Madness will start as always, Clock Chaos will score just the same, everything related to the clock in a game that uses it (very few) will work exactly the same with NVRAM, with the exception that time will not advance when the game is off. No power to the board = no time advancing, so time will not be the correct time, but everything still functions normally otherwise.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

I think someone said it needed some power to stay going, and although it retained everything while the machine was off, if the power was disconnected altogether, it did not. I didn't think that sounded right, but it was interesting enough to make sure of.

Have you tested that in a WPC? Using the PinLED MPU, which has a NVRAM installed, only advanced the RTC in my TZ a couple of minutes every hour, if I recall correctly from a year ago trying it out.

No power is needed for nvram to retain data, you can completely pull the nvram chip/adapter from the board and leave it out for weeks, months or years and the data will remain. This is referring to Ramtron and Simtek nvram.. older nvram like the Dallas chip used an internal battery built into the nvram chip case.

My only point - made not to diminish the achievement of any of these great NV memory battery-less solutions but just to make sure everyone understands the trade-offs - was that the real time clock (RTC) in these machines was designed to be running all the time (with power on or power off/machine unplugged from outlet) so it would always know the current year, month, day, and time. This was mostly useful for timestamping:
timestamps.png
The dates reported here will not be correct if you use a NV memory solution instead of batteries and you ever turn off your machine. That's probably not important for home use and maybe not that important for machines in route.

For my AFM, I like having the RTU inauguration date to be correct (here's pauloz's proud screenshot from last month):
RTU.jpg
That date will only be correct if you are using a battery-based solution that keeps the RTC running when there is no power (or if you never turn off the power, in which case you don't need an NV solution or batteries).

What apparently happens with the NV solutions is that the clock effectively only runs when the machine has power. So if you install an NV solution on January 1st and set the time and date, then turn it on an average of 6 hours a day...at the end of December, the pin will think it's some effectively random time near the end of March/start of April.

Just FYI, since there seems to be some misunderstanding about this...

I've had MANY packages of Ray-o-Vac's leak just 1-3 years into their storage. nowhere near the 7-9 year life they claim. Had many explode just a year into a device. I never use those in anything important anymore and try to cycle lots (e.g. kids toys that burn through them in a few months)

All the pins have Energizers or Duracels with remote packs. Will look into the lithiums

I use Rayovac all the time because of their aggressive pricing and have never had one leak yet in a machine. And for a while I wasn't being vigilant enough on checking each game. Out of all 16 I've only had a couple leaks and they were both Duracell. So it's all somewhat anecdotal.

You've had "many explode"?? Seriously? I don't think I've ever had a battery of any brand "explode"... scary

What uses had explosions btw?

Wait, but isn't a blocking diode only needed in the case of switching to AA batteries from a factory soldered NiCad *rechargeable* battery on the MPU??

This would apply to Gottlib sys 80, although I can't think of any others offhand with this setup.

So in the case of Williams, DE etc. AA batteries were factory installed and there is no circuitry in place to "recharge" them. A blocking diode wouldn't be a concern....

You should see what happens when an automotive battery explodes. It is not a pretty site. Be careful when hooking up jumper cables or reconnecting battery cables is all I can say.

This is what I do, except for newer Sterns that have a coin type lithium battery already mounted...

Boards that use non-rechargeable batteries have a blocking diode is pre-installed already. In some cases, that blocking diode resides within an IC such as a Gottlieb System 3's DS1210.

Heck no!
Lithium's last an incredibly long time especially compared to alkalines. I like the idea of a remote battery pack way down in the cabinet with lithium's installed. Battery pack located away from anything and everything.

But to make a statement that "lithiums don't leak" is wrong... but they normally take a very long time before they do.

I have had lithium's leak before being taken out of the package (hence the box of nearly 100 that I recently disposed of)... and I have had Energizer's alkalines leak after one week in a brand new flashlight. Hard to say what happened to either of these two batteries before they came into my possession. So far, I have had best luck with Duracell's.

Another statement that 'so and so brand has never leaked' when that particular battery has only been around for a few years is also a non-point. They have not been around long enough to verify their longevity. But being a lithium, it would take many years to determine if they are better or not than a cheaper brand.

I DO know about hooking the neg battery cable to a spot away from the battery to avoid potential explosive gases and a spark. Never seen it happen but I was always afraid my old man would blow himself up as he insisted on hooking the leads directly to the bad battery.

Stubborn but lucky I guess