(Topic ID: 239440)

Stop calling it restored when it's not


By timab2000

4 months ago



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  • 80 posts
  • 40 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Diospinball
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 80 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    28
    #1 4 months ago

    I must have a different idea of what restored is compared to some other people, but I've been looking at some games that people consider restored and their beat to crap. Could we please start using the word correctly.

    If it hasn't been torn down repainted and everything polished up real nice and can't call it restored.

    Am I wrong or what??

    18
    #2 4 months ago

    I just restored my lunch in the bathroom.

    It looks beat to crap....

    #3 4 months ago

    Funny

    #4 4 months ago
    Quoted from timab2000:

    must have a different idea of what restored is compared to some other people

    It means different things to everyone. So by itself it's a useless term. You need to ask specific questions to help determine the current condition of the table.

    #5 4 months ago

    Sorry....couldn't resist for some reason today

    #6 4 months ago

    Shopped is not restored....and half the time Motha sukas don't even replace rubbers, wax the playfield, or put in new balls. Somehow the game is now worth 4k for a fucking Austin Powers. restored takes alot more time and the whole game is gone over, new parts, full tear down of playfield, and possibly even new graphics or cabinet.

    #7 4 months ago

    Two of my games have restored playfields, but original cabinets. Even though one of the cabinets is really nice I don't like calling the game restored. There's more work to be done before I can honestly call them restored.

    #8 4 months ago

    Restored. Restored to what? Original factory condition? Restored to working condition? Restored to authentic period condition for a game of its type and age? Don't rely on words. Look at the game inside and out and make your own decision.

    #9 4 months ago

    The definition of ‘restored’ changes the longer you have been in the hobby. Also there are those that are ignorant and think it actually IS restored and those that lie about it.

    You have to see games in person. Only other option is to do live facetime video call (or google meet etc) and walk through details as if you were really there. But no substitute for being there in person.

    To me, ‘restored’ has no meaning at all and in fact can signal more damage done than not restored at all. HEP restored has meaning however.

    #10 4 months ago

    Fully-restored or Partially-restored

    #11 4 months ago

    This is one of the reasons I document my restoration projects here on Pinside. So when someone asks "What do you mean by restored?" I can point them to my restoration thread, and they can see what I did.

    11
    #12 4 months ago
    Quoted from timab2000:

    I've been looking at some games that people consider restored and their beat to crap.

    Quoted from timab2000:

    Could we please start using the word correctly.

    Umm..."their"?

    #13 4 months ago
    Quoted from Crile1:

    Umm..."their"?

    #14 4 months ago

    Eh. Restored is completely ambiguous, much like the word “working.”

    Neither should have ambiguity, but they do for whatever reason. How many times have we seen ads that say “100% working! Just needs a new bumper solenoid!”

    As frustrating as it is, at the end of the day, people can say whatever they want about a game, but when it comes down to my time and money, I’ll always thoroughly check out a game before slapping that cash down on the glass.

    #15 4 months ago

    Easier to realize many things in life come down to YOUR perspective.. the reality you created for yourself consisting of YOUR beliefs, YOUR idea of what's right or wrong, fair or unfair, etc. Other people have their own perspective. This makes it far easier to not get annoyed or angered every time you see something that shouldn't exist IMO. But hey, to each their own

    #16 4 months ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    How many times have we seen ads that say “100% working! Just needs a new bumper solenoid!”

    Ugh, that phrase annoys me. They say it's 100% working, yet follow it up by 3 or 4 things that need to be fixed. It's not 100% then...sheesh That's like going to a used car dealership and the salesman saying "yeah, it's fully working, except it leaks oil, the brakes squeak, the wipers need to be replaced, and the radio is broken".

    Quoted from timab2000:

    I must have a different idea of what restored is compared to some other people

    I typically use "refurbished", rather than "restored". Most of the time, I just do a thorough tear-down and shop job.

    Quoted from acebathound:

    Easier to realize some many things in life come down to YOUR perspective.. the reality you created for yourself consisting of YOUR beliefs, YOUR idea of what's right or wrong, fair or unfair, etc. Other people have their own perspective. This makes it far easier to not get annoyed or angered every time you see something that shouldn't exist IMO. But hey, to each their own

    I find the quote from Adam Savage (of mythbusters fame) hilarious--"I reject your reality and substitute my own".

    #17 4 months ago

    More often than not, sellers know more about all the things wrong with the machine than you will as a buyer and they will not share that info with you. You must test and find out for yourself.

    If the seller’s knowledge horizon is further than yours, than that is the cost of being a newbie. This is the unfortunate reality so I’ve learned it’s up to me to check and what I don’t check I have to take responsibility for when I buy.

    #18 4 months ago

    It's purely a relative term, and I like the perspective someone else laid out earlier. Because it can be accurate either way within a narrow spectrum:

    "Restored" to operating condition: The machine used to work, but didn't... it's been restored to a functional state that serves its originally intended purpose. For a playable game, this is an acceptable use of the term "restored" as applies to function, even if it has cosmetic blemishes. This is probably all that most players are concerned with.

    "Restored" to factory condition: take the above, and fix the cosmetics too. I would agree this is what most collectors are concerned with: a game restored to its original NIB condition.

    "Restored = HEP or better": Ha! That's an oxymoron, as no game ever left the factory pimped to that level, therefore none was ever in a HEP-level condition until then, so there was nothing to "REstore". Painted interiors, mirror cabinets, polished mechs, 2PAC vintage pfs? That's not "restored"... that's "modified".

    "Restored... but customized..." well now you're into a gray area. A purist won't consider a custom touch as "restored" to factory, even if the condition is "restored" to otherwise like new. So again, see modified.

    I like to use the term "refurbished" when describing a whole game when any of its individual sub-components might be "restored". I have "restored" PFs and/or boardsets and put them into unrestored (or partially-restored) cabs. I've restored a bottom cab but not its head or coin door. I've restored a topside pf, but the bottom is merely nice and functional - not shiny new.

    I like my games to play like they should and look as nice as I can make them, while retaining some of their historic patina and charm. I wouldn't say any was fully restored, but they're all a hell of a lot better than they were when I got them... so my efforts have to count for something, and it's fair of me to say any of the meriting features are restored. As judged by peers at shows, my games are really nice despite whatever few features aren't perfect, so I leave it up to players / viewers / buyers to compare them against their own priorities.

    #19 4 months ago

    Sorry that's what I get for talking into my phone rather than typing.

    Pour spelling. (That's a joke)

    I just find it kind of a slap in the face to the hobby and to the people who actually do restore the games when people claim it's restored when it's not and then they ask outrageous prices on top of it

    #20 4 months ago

    I restore my games to perfectly playable condition.

    Even this one!

    B9D2E74A-24B8-4E3A-AD00-902B3B18BD6B (resized).jpeg
    #21 4 months ago

    Hey you could put a Playfield protector over that and it be just like new

    #23 4 months ago

    That's exactly the one I was looking at. I'll sell mine for $2500

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-on-a-budget-the-budget-officially-blown

    I guess the next game I do I'll just stick in some LED's and clean off the glass and call it restored

    #24 4 months ago

    If the name Chris is not in the same paragraph, to me it’s not restored.

    #25 4 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    If the name Chris is not in the same paragraph, to me it’s not restored.

    Agreed!

    #26 4 months ago

    Probably Pinside takes a little "blame" because of all the pulldown options to choose when listing a game's condition. Maybe reverse that list and start from the bottom and not put the Restored options up top?

    #28 4 months ago

    Every word used by ever seller is completely useless. All that matters is what I see when I look at the game. I don't understand why people get worked up about this stuff. I've seen so many threads over the years discussing it, and I doubt it has ever changed a single word in an ad to sell a game.

    In fact I'm pretty sure this comment is restored, because I'm sure I've said this a bunch of times.

    #29 4 months ago

    Who cares what you call it. Will it sell at the price offered.

    #30 4 months ago

    Here's my fresh, minty, huo, restored with a wood grain effect MM.

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    #31 4 months ago

    At least I know what to expect from "restored". (Granted, it being accurately used is another story.)
    I'm still clueless on what exactly "Minty Fresh" means though...

    #32 4 months ago

    I still consider myself new to the hobby after doing what I think is a restoration. Can someone confirm if either of these are restorations or should I change the title of the threads?

    Mata Hari
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-thought-she-was-a-dirty-girl-before-i-stripped-her-down

    Bally Rocket
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-rocket-flipperless-restoration

    #33 4 months ago

    waxed my pf other night its now FULLY restored!

    #35 4 months ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    I still consider myself new to the hobby after doing what I think is a restoration. Can someone confirm if either of these are restorations or should I change the title of the threads?
    Mata Hari
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-thought-she-was-a-dirty-girl-before-i-stripped-her-down
    Bally Rocket
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-rocket-flipperless-restoration

    With the quality of your workmanship I think you can say they are restored. However, you have some paint mods on your Mata Hari like the red prop stick. I don't know how that works.

    #36 4 months ago

    Just to clarify anything I've done, I call them refreshes. All varying degrees towards a proper restoration, but never quite at the level of professional one.

    #38 4 months ago

    I restore pins and anyone that knows me I mean it ,it's everything too ,paint ,last bolt and Tnut ,I have seen many machines people say they are restored but they are just cleaned up and that's it ,not restore at all but still asking the restored price for them I don't think so lol

    #39 4 months ago

    Call it restoreable !

    #40 4 months ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    Every word used by ever seller is completely useless. All that matters is what I see when I look at the game. I don't understand why people get worked up about this stuff. I've seen so many threads over the years discussing it, and I doubt it has ever changed a single word in an ad to sell a game.
    In fact I'm pretty sure this comment is restored, because I'm sure I've said this a bunch of times.

    That's why a good seller will put up lots of pics no matter what the description says. Nobody recommends buying a game sight unseen and trusting a seller when they say game is perfect. As a seller, you highlight the positives and try to get the most money you can. This has nothing to do with pins but sellers in general. Watch any commercial on tv or look at any for sale ad. It's all the same. Do you walk onto a car dealer lot without any research and trust what the car salesmen says? Of course not. As a buyer, it is up to you to educate yourself and make sure you know what you are buying to the best of your abilities. If an ad description is completely misleading from true condition, then consider it a good indication seller is not trustworthy or knows what they are doing and to stay away.

    #41 4 months ago

    My favorite is "Ground up Restoration".

    #42 4 months ago
    Quoted from Boltronix:

    My favorite is "Ground up Restoration".

    really means - got 2lbs of ground on it

    #43 4 months ago
    Quoted from Boltronix:

    My favorite is "Ground up Restoration".

    It's the only way too go for sure

    #44 4 months ago

    I know there are other posts about this, I even started one asking what your definition of restored was, so I guess I am beating a dead horse.

    I guess I just need to deal with it and move on to something else that bugs me. Whatever that might be?

    #45 4 months ago
    Quoted from timab2000:

    I know there are other posts about this, I even started one asking what your definition of restored was, so I guess I am beating a dead horse.
    I guess I just need to deal with it and move on to something else that bugs me. Whatever that might be?

    People who call pinball machines "tables?"

    Monkey mech removed?

    When someone is playing a game and they won't let you join in on a two-player game?

    Long lines for the 5 games everybody wants to play at a pinball show?

    Have you seen prices lately on pinball machines?!?!??!?!

    #46 4 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Have you seen prices lately on pinball machines?!?!??!?!

    I guess that is the part that bugs me the most. People can ask whatever they what, I guess. It's only worth what someone will pay you for it. But to ask a price for a game that is clearly not what you say it is...is just wrong.

    Hard enough to find a non working game for a good price, because everyone thinks their game is worth more than it is. So that makes it that much harder to rebuild, restore, or remake the game and then try to get your money out of it, if and when you go to sell it.

    Anyway on to the next big thing.......

    #47 4 months ago
    Quoted from timab2000:

    I know there are other posts about this, I even started one asking what your definition of restored was, so I guess I am beating a dead horse.
    I guess I just need to deal with it and move on to something else that bugs me. Whatever that might be?

    How about HUO? or only xx# of games played? Total BS descriptors got no business in a sale description.

    #48 4 months ago
    Quoted from fnosm:

    How about HUO? or only xx# of games played

    I already did a post on that as well. I guess I am just a glass half full kind of guy.

    #49 4 months ago
    Quoted from fnosm:

    How about HUO? or only xx# of games played? Total BS descriptors got no business in a sale description.

    It's better than "restored", it's imamaculate!

    #50 4 months ago

    First you have to decide what “ Restored”
    Really is before you can call your game restored. I have an HEP CV. Is it restored? Most would say yes. I say no not enough info. It was restored in 2009. That is what I have. The full description is HEP Restoration 2009 HUO. Definition: the game was restored by HEP in 2009 and has been Home Used Only Since.

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