(Topic ID: 152643)

Stolen Pins Found Thanks to Local Collectors-Legal Advice Sought


By Borygard

3 years ago



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  • 295 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Cudaman
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    There are 295 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
    #51 3 years ago

    Here is a place to register your machines and there serial #s, you can then print out a nice certificate which you can put away in a safe place, "just-in-case" http://www.ipsnd.net/Default.aspx

    #52 3 years ago
    Quoted from robotronjohn:

    making sure I take good photos and make some hidden markings.

    Quoted from msj2222:

    Here is a place to register your machines and there serial #s, you can then print out a nice certificate which you can put away in a nice place, "just-in-case" http://www.ipsnd.net/Default.aspx

    Seems good we are finding lessons learned in the details of Rob's experience... another lesson we could learn is to get a written bill of sale/sales receipt of some sort that records the SN and what (if any) hidden markings are inside. Documenting SN information in a IPSNDB.net certificate, writing "sold by..." and "Sold to..." on the certificate, and having both parties sign the cert would seem a pretty powerful way to (1) capture the information when the game is incoming and (2) protect buyers from a potentially mischievous seller later claiming they never sold the game.

    I've got 8 games and no documentation showing when I got them, who I got them from, or what I paid for them... guess I get an 'F'.

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us or my booth at TPF to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

    #53 3 years ago

    Always do a bill of sale on big items. Just good protection for both parties. I always list the price and include the terms such as being sold "as is" , or noted defect such as cabinet scrape, etc. I have them sign a copy and I keep one as well. If I don't know them, I ask for drivers license and list both our numbers. You just never know what circumstances will arise.

    #54 3 years ago

    I am curious, how far from where you last saw your pins is this pawn shop?
    What was the circumstances of them being found?

    I wonder if that pawn shop got good id on the people that pawned them. Yes, it will be great for you to recover them, but even more satisfaction knowing they get arrested.

    19
    #55 3 years ago

    Rob my brother is a missouri attorney. If you haven't gotten one yet and need some help call me. He is an abestos litigator but has handled many things for me and my freinds

    #56 3 years ago

    Provide a demand letter to the shop.
    You could buy the machines from the pawn shop so you have them. Then sue the shop for the amount of purchase. If the total cost is under $5k, it's small claims. You can only add a couple hundred in attorney fees.
    The shop probably won't sell them to you knowing a lawsuit is forthcoming. In which case you just have to go through the motions (starting with a demand letter).
    I'm not a lawyer, but I've had to sue to get what's owed me.

    #57 3 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    drug addicts.
    .

    That is exactly what these guys were.Now the pawn shop acts as if we are some kind of pricks when we go try to pick up the games.It's clearly Robs stuff and they know it.They chose to buy stolen goods...and they knew it for the price they bought it for and now they want to keep it.It really is a bunch of runaround.The victim has less rights than the f***ing thief!

    #58 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    Always do a bill of sale on big items. Just good protection for both parties. I always list the price and include the terms such as being sold "as is" , or noted defect such as cabinet scrape, etc. I have them sign a copy and I keep one as well. If I don't know them, I ask for drivers license and list both our numbers. You just never know what circumstances will arise.

    You would be the 1st one I ever encountered that did that

    #59 3 years ago

    What kind of Pawn shop purchases several pinball machines without asking questions or taking ID's??? This Pawn shop sounds very shady.

    #60 3 years ago

    Sort of on/off topic: There is a local operator that has about 20 pins in a 24/7 laundry mat. I stop in once in a while to play of couple of his pins. The other day when I went in I noticed that he now has a note taped to the apron of each pin saying his pins are protected with a serial number and a GPS locator.

    I don't know. Maybe he lost a pin. It would be real easy for two guys to back up a pickup to the double entry door late at night and load a pin.

    I don't know if GPS trackers would be cost prohibitive but it is a thought for pins at risk.

    #61 3 years ago

    What would happen if the rightful owner were to "steal" their property from a pawn shop that "bought" the property that was recently stolen from the rightful owner?

    Not these large pins, but say a nice Bosch Hammer Drill that the rightful owner saw there on a shelf, confirmed by serial number & other markings. They pick it up and "shoplift" it.

    Not counting the fact most pawn dealers have a loaded arsenal, how would the justice "system" handle this example?

    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I don't know if GPS trackers would be cost prohibitive but it is a thought for pins at risk.

    I looked into this early when starting my route. Insurance was a lot cheaper.

    #63 3 years ago

    Sounds like the pawn shop was involved in the theft. They hired an attorney because of it.

    #64 3 years ago

    I would stand outside with a sign that says "Ask me about my stolen pinball machines" See how much that helps his business model.

    #65 3 years ago
    Quoted from Borygard:

    and I only found out today from the Sheriff that they obtained an attorney and are siting this statute.
    --

    You have to get an attorney. If you wind up in court without an attorney, you will lose, because the pawn shop has one. Judges do not like it when people represent themselves against another attorney. Call it the "Old Boy" network.

    I don't know about the law in the Show Me state, but in Maryland when your attorney files for return of the machines, he can also file for re-payment of his fees from the pawn shop. Calling your local state representative or county councilman might help as well.

    Best of luck.

    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from msj2222:

    Here is a place to register your machines and there serial #s, you can then print out a nice certificate which you can put away in a safe place, "just-in-case" http://www.ipsnd.net/Default.aspx

    You can record the serial# here in Pinside under your collection details. There is a field for it. I fill out details from the sales on my games. Who I purchased from, price, condition, improvements, etc. Its a nice way to keep track of everything.

    Hope you get your games back Rob! Just stay adament. The law should eventually be on your side especially since you have records and have done things in the correct manner.

    #67 3 years ago

    Rob, sound like there is some good advice offered here. Good luck in getting your machines back. You are too nice a guy to get screwed over like this. See you at PATZ.

    #68 3 years ago

    This part of the state statue is very straight forward. Follow it and get your paperwork in order. I would also present him(the pawn shop) with a letter stating that since you have followed all of the state's statues to regain possession of your property, that your next step will be to hire an attorney, file suit, and hold him liable for ALL COSTS , including court and attorney fees.

    He should hand over your machines. He has no leg to stand on and is just making you go through this process just in case you don't follow through. FOLLOW through and get your machines back !!!

    I am sure there is an attorney here on pinside that would gladly put your demand letter together for you as long as you provide all your documentation.

    5. To obtain possession of tangible personal property held by a pawnbroker which a claimant claims to be misappropriated, the claimant shall provide the pawnbroker with a written demand for the return of such property, a copy of a police or sheriff's report wherein claimant reported the misappropriation or theft of said property and which contains a particularized description of the property or applicable serial number, and a signed affidavit made under oath setting forth they are the true owner of the property, the name and address of the claimant, a description of the property being claimed, the fact that such property was taken from the claimant without the claimant's consent, permission or knowledge, the fact that the claimant has reported the theft to the police, the fact that the claimant will assist in any prosecution relating to such property, the promise that the claimant will respond to court process in any criminal prosecution relating to said property and will testify truthfully as to all facts within the claimant's knowledge and not claim any testimonial privilege with respect to said facts. These documents shall be presented to the pawnbroker concurrently.

    #69 3 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    This part of the state statue is very straight forward. Follow it and get your paperwork in order. I would also present him(the pawn shop) with a letter stating that since you have followed all of the state's statues to regain possession of your property, that your next step will be to hire an attorney, file suit, and hold him liable for ALL COSTS , including court and attorney fees.

    Might not be a bad idea to have all correspondence notarized and sent via certified mail with signature requirements. That way, the shop can't deny receiving any paperwork.

    #70 3 years ago
    Quoted from Borygard:

    The Sheriff has "released" the games to me and my buddy Chris was set to go pick them up when the pawn shop told him they weren't releasing them.
    borygard at gmail dot com

    Any chance the Sheriff will accompany you to the pawn shop to make them release the games?

    Also, did you turn the thefts into your Homeowner's insurance company? Those thefts certainly would be covered claims. If they paid for your loss and were informed the pawn shop now had them, they would pursue recovery from the pawn shop at their expense. Technically, after they paid you for your loss, the stolen property recovered would be theirs. However, most companies allow the insured to buy back any recovered property. Typically, the buy back is the same amount the insurance company paid you for the item. It could be less in the event the recovered property was damaged in some way and had to be repaired.

    #71 3 years ago

    they wern't stolen from his home. they were stolen from his storage area. Off property.

    how many games did you lose total? Is this all of them?

    what kind of prices did the pawn shop have on them? curious, you can sometimes figure out what they paid for them by the prices they are asking.

    I can see the pawn shop getting upset at the whole deal as well. when you get stuff in the store. How you suppose to know what's stolen and what isn't. it's kind of the nature of the beast. I'm sure a lot of stuff that comes in is stolen, but most of the time people don't have S/N numbers on it to do anything about it. wonder what the annual amount is, of stuff pawn shops lose out on that they buy?

    -3
    #72 3 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    they wern't stolen from his home. they were stolen from his storage area. Off property.
    how many games did you lose total? Is this all of them?
    what kind of prices did the pawn shop have on them?

    They were selling BTTF for 20k

    #73 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    They were selling BTTF for 20k

    sounds about right. They are going to lose their ass then, because they probably paid 10k.

    #74 3 years ago

    Those "Tile" trackers are cheap and might be a good thing to hide in each machine going forward.

    #75 3 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    they wern't stolen from his home. they were stolen from his storage area. Off property.
    how many games did you lose total? Is this all of them?
    what kind of prices did the pawn shop have on them? curious, you can sometimes figure out what they paid for them by the prices they are asking.
    I can see the pawn shop getting upset at the whole deal as well. when you get stuff in the store. How you suppose to know what's stolen and what isn't. it's kind of the nature of the beast. I'm sure a lot of stuff that comes in is stolen, but most of the time people don't have S/N numbers on it to do anything about it. wonder what the annual amount is, of stuff pawn shops lose out on that they buy?

    wrong, they were stolen from a farm property that he owns

    #76 3 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    they wern't stolen from his home. they were stolen from his storage area. Off property.

    Doesn't matter where they are located. Homeowner's insurance covers your contents anywhere in the world.

    #77 3 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    The pawn shop knows you are in the right, and knows the law is on your side. They are just trying to make it seem like a big pain in the ass on the off chance you might get discouraged and give up. dont be intimidated, and don't lose your temper. keep at it and you'll have your games back faster than you think.

    Send the state police in to arrest the owner of the pawn shop for receiving and concealing stolen goods.

    #78 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pindufus:

    Doesn't matter where they are located. Homeowner's insurance covers your contents anywhere in the world.

    Sometimes. Depends on the policy, they vary wildly.

    rd

    #79 3 years ago

    They are trying to sell known stolen property. I can't see how this can be legal. I know they might be getting screwed on this one, but surely they know the person's information who they bought the pins from?

    You could also file a claim with your homeowners insurance, they reimburse you and they can get their legal team involved to recover these pins on your behalf I believe. This happened with a friends stolen artwork - and the insurance company worked everything out on their end.

    #80 3 years ago

    The pawn shop is dumb for not raising red flags when someone transports 4 pinball machines to a pawn shop. Can't exactly just pop it in a vehicle, they had to either drop off a couple at a time on a pickup, or bring them in on a trailer.

    #81 3 years ago
    Quoted from osudrummer:

    Those "Tile" trackers are cheap and might be a good thing to hide in each machine going forward.

    Except they only last a year, and will only show up on the app if you are within bluetooth range (or another Tile User is within range) There are GPS locators that would be a better fit.

    #82 3 years ago
    Quoted from cavalier88z24:

    You would be the 1st one I ever encountered that did that

    Yea, I do it because I got burned on a gun trade some years ago. Long story, but without something in writing, it is just one word against another. I always like to take photos of anything I sell as well, just for my record to document condition. Guess maybe I am paranoid.......lol

    #83 3 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    they wern't stolen from his home. they were stolen from his storage area. Off property...

    Not sure how you interpreted things this way. Yes they were in a building used for storage. They were on my property, the same property with my home.

    Seven games stolen, four found.

    No insurance.

    The seller of the games to the pawn shop is the same thief that has been charged and is facing many years in prison on related charges.

    Sheriff has always intended to be present on game pick up. There's nothing they can do until requirements of the statute are completed, or I pay the pawn shop for them.

    Thanks everyone for the support and suggestions.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #84 3 years ago

    These scumbags are hoping you don't have the money or the guts to pay for an attorney. They also probably overpaid for them and stand to lose their shirt.

    Finally, you should look into what liability, both criminal and civil, they might be subject to. I'm guessing this is part of their motivation for fighting you. Did they follow all rules? If they didn't, can they lose their license, or can you file a civil case against them. The stakes may be very high for them, so they may fight tooth and nail. Pay the attorney and screw them to the wall for every cent you can.

    #85 3 years ago

    What is this pawn shops name and number? have you explained how Yelp! works and that there are auto dialing programs?

    #86 3 years ago

    I read the requirement #5 to report the pawn shop items as stolen. It doesn't sound reasonable. A pawn shop can't give away product to anyone that claims its stolen. There has to be a procedure. Why wouldn't you just file that info and pick your games up 7 day later as their policies state?

    #87 3 years ago

    I also hope you took photos of the machines in their possession. I would not put it past these scum-bags to damage the machines out of spite and claim that was the condition they purchased them in.

    #88 3 years ago
    Quoted from Msch:

    What is this pawn shops name and number? have you explained how Yelp! works and that there are auto dialing programs?

    I'm sure if they get enough calls inquiring about stolen pinball machines, they will quickly see the futility of their ways

    #89 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    Yea, I do it because I got burned on a gun trade some years ago. Long story, but without something in writing, it is just one word against another. I always like to take photos of anything I sell as well, just for my record to document condition. Guess maybe I am paranoid.......lol

    A common thing to document where I work is "lessons learned" and it makes me chuckle. I regularly point out we are really documenting "lessons offered" b/c only behavior change can demonstrate anything was learned. In your case I don't think you are paranoid at all; but rather exhibiting proof of learning from an experience-offered lesson. I on the other hand haven't demonstrated any learning from this thread - despite all the good advise I haven't done anything to inventory the pins or anything else... yet. Only time will tell if this old dog can learn a new trick! It's rare anything ever changes over at the office either, but people keep writing...

    We should add a poll to this thread - did you document identifying information about your machines after reading this thread?

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us or my booth at TPF to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

    #90 3 years ago

    Larry H. Parker will fight for you.

    th_(resized).jpg

    29
    #91 3 years ago

    Pawn shop offered all the pins and lots of parts to me for 2,500.00. I knew they were robs and called him. What sucks for Rob is the sherif rents his house from the guy that owns the pawn shop. Pawn shop owners a d***, my daughters married to his son but he's still a d*** head. He is just bulling Rob. He tries that with me every now and then but he knows if he jacks with me I'll knock his d*** stiff just like I did his sons friend. Ed

    #92 3 years ago
    Quoted from Fast-Ed:

    Pawn shop offered all the pins and lots of parts to me for 2,500.00. I knew they were robs and called him. What sucks for Rob is the sherif rents his house from the guy that owns the pawn shop. Pawn shop owners a dick, my daughters married to his son but he's still a dick head. He is just bulling Rob. He tries that with me every now and then but he knows if he jacks with me I'll knock his dick stiff just like I did his sons friend. Ed

    Where is this pawn shop?

    #93 3 years ago

    Potosi mo. 1 mile from my house.

    #94 3 years ago

    Is his name Zed?

    #95 3 years ago
    Quoted from Fast-Ed:

    Potosi mo. 1 mile from my house

    well that narrows it down to 2:

    Pawnstop
    306 E High St, Potosi, MO 63664
    (573) 436-0424

    Express Pawn & Gun Shop
    208 E High St, Potosi, MO 63664
    expresspawnandgun.com
    (573) 438-2244

    12
    #96 3 years ago
    Quoted from Fast-Ed:

    if he jacks with me I'll knock his d*** stiff

    Is that a Missouri thing?

    rd

    #97 3 years ago

    I would guess the one on High St

    14
    #98 3 years ago

    Missourian here - never heard of knocking someone's d*** stiff.

    #99 3 years ago

    No it's a brand new one called hwy 21 pawn. It just opened up. The pins was probably one of his first buys

    15
    #100 3 years ago
    Quoted from Fast-Ed:

    He tries that with me every now and then but he knows if he jacks with me I'll knock his d*** stiff just like I did his sons friend.

    Quoted from rotordave:

    Is that a Missouri thing?

    Quoted from dgoett:

    Missourian here - never heard of knocking someone's d*** stiff.

    I'm sorry, but that is the funniest three party exchange I've ever read on Pinside.

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