PIN2DMD - LED color DMD solution for all machine types (incl 128x16)

(Topic ID: 153490)

PIN2DMD - LED color DMD solution for all machine types (incl 128x16)

By lucky1

2 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 818 posts
  • 85 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 53 days ago by lucky1
  • Topic is favorited by 82 Pinsiders


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    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    I rather like that design!
    How much does he sell them for?

    However much you want to flush down the toilet since it's not supported.

    1 week later
    #59 2 years ago

    Looks great!! Is this a microcontroller based platform or is it ARM based running some form of Linux? For simplicity and startup times it would be nice if there is some form of programmable microcontroller option.

    #73 2 years ago

    There's some talk about 192x64, are there panels with the correct dot pitch available now?

    #77 2 years ago
    Quoted from Axl:

    would it be possible with this soulution to use LCD panels?

    No, there are DMD Extender and SmartDMD if you want to use an LCD panel. Two different solutions.

    #113 2 years ago

    I certainly wouldn't mind buying a kit from PinballSP.

    1 week later
    #129 2 years ago

    Here's ColorDMD's display installed in Cirqus Voltaire. They clearly used a dark gel film to reduce light bleed and create true blacks.

    #137 2 years ago

    I would love to see something like wifi setup/adjustments from a mobile device. This will make it a lot easier and quicker to make configuration changes without bringing a whole laptop to open the backbox, remove the speaker panel, and connect via USB or even worse, SD card (which is slower and more problematic yet). If I could just connect to a non-broadcasting WPA2-AES secured access point, enter a password on a web page, make changes from there, and see those changes applied instantly without restarting the display or rebooting the game that would be nothing short of fantastic. For route operators like myself with multiple games this would be great and save a lot of time hopping from place to place where doing it the old way would not be practical.

    #144 2 years ago

    For me a web page would be more than enough to replace USB, but an application would provide a better streamlined experience for many.

    #146 2 years ago

    Yes, an application would be specific to that device/operating system.

    #153 2 years ago

    Shouldn't have to do any soldering at all.

    #168 2 years ago

    You plan on implementing frame colorization support in your firmware? That sounds exciting.

    #172 2 years ago

    I'm following this at a glance and don't entirely understand the power options but would I be able to power this board and/or the LED panels using Coyote's power supply board? I take it his board is only used to power the panels, right? If I need a separate power supply for the PinballSP 5v that's not a problem for me.

    #177 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    In the test I ran - full brightness, white color, on TZ over two 30-min games, the amperage for EVERYTHING (both panels plus controller boards), there was never more than 2.3A drawn. (2.28a, I believe, but I rounded up.) This included LITZ mode on one game, and powerball on both. (Heavy animation, bright lit, etc.) This did not have any frame-keying done, no palette switching, etc. And, in case it matters, I'm also using the PinLED display driver board, which Lucky can attest, uses a different timing mode than normal WPCs. I doubt that a different timing mode, however, can over double the amps drawn.

    Well that's an interesting find. Is that peak power usage or average, I assume peak? I think we need more info, maybe do a display test and see how much the inverted row/column tests draw maximum at 100% brightness over the length of the tests. I'm not saying your findings aren't accurate, but more information/sample data to solidify this would be great. At least we have some real world measurements to go on now.

    #182 2 years ago

    Blue LEDs are most efficient. How about red and green? Red should consume the most of the 3 and green should be somewhere in the middle.

    #184 2 years ago


    #187 2 years ago

    Has anyone ordered some 64x64 panels? Luis is 192x64 support in your firmware coming in the near future? I have a dying plasma and would like to buy a kit from you if it's in the plans.

    #196 2 years ago

    IMO I would prefer Luis's clean single board solution that is running software specifically designed for it. I really don't like Linux-based solutions for basic applications like this and it takes time to boot, you have to be careful with the SD card, etc.

    #198 2 years ago

    Does your firmware exhibit color palette ghosting/trailing between planes during scrolling animations? DMD Extender and SmartDMD have this issue and both people told me it was timing issues with using an LCD display and these dim planes are built in to the display signal. I have confirmed this in PinMAME. These artifacts are not visible with plasma displays. I am not sure if this is because they are single color or because of the image retention/persistence of the plasma dots and how they handle brightness modulation.


    #200 2 years ago

    That's exactly what I was thinking. It doesn't explain why PinMAME does it though. I opened the Addams Family attract mode in the goDMD animation editor and there are darker/ghosted frames between single frame transitions. I see the same thing in WPCEdit. I'm thinking if the PinballSP firmware reproduces the exact plane clock timing as the original plasma displays it shouldn't be a problem. A lot of it is probably because you're taking something non-standard like 122Hz and downsampling it to 60Hz for an LCD.

    #210 2 years ago

    Awesome! Thank you for keeping us updated.

    #213 2 years ago

    Apollo 13 doesn't use a large display.

    #216 2 years ago

    Yes I can tell just from looking at the dots with the naked eye they are smaller, not only smaller dot pitch but physically smaller cells. If this is correct which it seems to be, hopefully someone can source a 2mm pitch panel.

    #219 2 years ago

    Looks like the same material as the Fast mounting plates? That looks slick!

    #222 2 years ago

    You should make a cool sign or a clock out of the 3 panels you ordered, that's a bummer. Maybe play some animations from the 4 Sega games.

    #229 2 years ago
    Quoted from lucky1:

    If you find a cheap source I would rather go with 8 panels 48x48. You end up 384x192mm which is the closest you can get to 390x130mm and just don´t fill the upper and lower 16 rows with content.

    I would also vouch for this solution if at all possible. I am using LCDs in several games and a few are developing defects near the top. Not visible during gameplay but it's an issue. Plus people have had them break when moving games because they are so fragile, plus you have to remove the speaker panel before opening the backbox door.

    #231 2 years ago

    Currently $525 if you can even find one! I'm sure almost anyone would pay the extra money just to have another option especially if you're wanting to keep it looking stock as possible (being an actual dot matrix display). That's just my opinion though. There is a lot of money that needs to be tied up to use those more expensive panels.

    #235 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballsp:

    May be I may offer an RGB DMD LED 192*64 with price between 350 and 400 Euros. But with TFT probably between 250 and 300 euros full ready to work, or only adapter board + Sd card with program cheaper than DMD Extender.

    DMD Extender, last I checked, is about $100 for the board and software. This is a great price for your board as people can buy it and pair it with their own LCD display.

    #240 2 years ago

    Having a harness to use the existing 100vAC would be great, like what Coyote did with his custom board. I didn't realize the 5v 10A PSU you are using would accept 100vAC. This will eliminate the need to run extra line voltage into the backbox.

    #255 2 years ago

    There are several other electrical component contacts right? How are those made, spring tensioned tabs?

    #269 2 years ago

    Will this software run on Mac or Linux? Or is it Windows only?

    #274 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballsp:

    May be I may offer an RGB DMD LED 192*64 with price between 350 and 400 Euros.

    Are the cheaper 128mm x 128mm panels you found usable for 128x32 or 192x64?

    #312 2 years ago

    Do you know if the F746 CPU will absolutely be required for basic colorizing, like palette switching? Doing full frame replacement as you have said will require this chip correct?

    #317 2 years ago

    I think "most" means more like 99% of all titles. I'm very impressed with these results.

    #322 2 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    Where did this quote come from. Is the current hardware expected to be sufficient for most games, and "advanced" techniques are rarely required?

    It's not a quote. Based on what has been found 99% of games will work, at least 99 out of 100. The only exception so far seems to be Safe Cracker. I'm also wondering about Cirqus Voltaire.

    1 week later
    #340 2 years ago

    If something goes wrong during flashing will this brick the controller board, or can you retry?

    #346 2 years ago

    $45 for shipping, wow. Is that because of the box size?

    2 weeks later
    #453 2 years ago

    Looks fantastic!! Won't be long at all now looks like for a full kit.

    1 week later
    #483 2 years ago
    Quoted from Kneissl:

    These things are hard to photograph..
    Is there an up to date tutorial for doing key frame pallet changes?

    Your panels need to be lined up square, there's a line going down the center.

    2 weeks later
    #512 2 years ago

    Is it possible to access the RNG that creates these animations so their checksums can be exhaustively colorized?

    #516 2 years ago
    Quoted from lucky1:

    You want to modify the ROM file of a WPC machine to make a scene predictable ?
    I had a look at the dump of a FT machine and unfortunatelly the bubbles are part of both checksums. However since the start from the
    bottom it is easy to use a mask, like Kneissl already did, to hit the start of the animation.
    In TZ e.g. I used one frame before the first TZ Logo with stars to trigger correctly. Sometimes you have tweak a bit to make it right.

    Or maybe is it possible to find/view the RNG behavior in the ROM and determine all possible cases for patterns?

    #522 1 year ago

    Looking fantastic!

    #530 1 year ago

    Is this one of the final versions of the DMDST32 kit?

    #533 1 year ago

    Curious to know about the 2.0mm 64x64 panels and if/how that's working out.

    3 weeks later
    #560 1 year ago

    I've also heard a lot of SanDisk ones bought at places like Best Buy are counterfeit. I've seen those fail and do weird stuff like corrupt files in cameras.

    #562 1 year ago

    Kingston is great. I've used their RAM for years and never had an issue. IT ships their Golden Tee upgrade kits with Kingston drives. I have a collection of like, 4 or 5 of those from over the years. One is a USB 3.0 8GB!

    #564 1 year ago

    I think my oldest Kingston flash drive started giving me trouble lately. But it still works.

    #567 1 year ago

    I think everyone is interested in buying a dot matrix solution where originals are $500+ if you can even find them. We currently have DMD Extender and SmartDMD which runs about $250-$300 in parts and software, but keeping that software running with all the intricate connections between the SD card, Pi, screen controller, and adapter boards causes me to restart about once a month at the very least. Plus the SmartDMD software is not very stable and the refresh rates of an LED solution are much closer to an original DMD eliminating screen tearing, pulldown, and giving much smoother motion. Having a single board microcontroller based solution that boots in and instant and doesn't use a desktop operating system would be well worth the money.

    1 week later
    #576 1 year ago
    Quoted from lucky1:

    With the P2.5 panels the display size will be exactly the same as the original machines.

    I'm not following this part, then again I haven't been reading every post either. I was under the impression we needed P2.0 panels in order to fit a Sega 192x64 game and the current P2.5 ones are being used for testing/toppers.

    #578 1 year ago

    Ah, nice. Thanks.

    2 months later
    #611 1 year ago

    I'm thinking about getting the fully assembled PinballSP DMDST32 kit from Louis. Question, this is going to be for a Data East game. I don't see any pictures of the kit used in a Data East system. I know it can be done and the PIN2DMD software is compatible with Data East. My main concern is how would I fit the DMD driver board on the back of this whole assembly and will there be enough room in the backbox for this? Plus, I only see 4 holes in the mounting plate, one in each corner, and none in the center on top or bottom to suggest how this driver board would be mounted.

    #614 1 year ago

    That's awesome, I can just drill my own holes and follow the video. I replied to your email and will buy the kit. Thanks for all your help.

    1 month later
    #619 1 year ago

    i bought the DIY $99 kit from Fast Pinball. I have the revision 3 shield/Discovery solution from UncleSash. I don't see a way to plug the shield directly into the display because there is too much of a gap. I realize this board was not specifically designed for the Fast mounting bracket, more so for the custom board Aaron has in progress. Has anyone found a solution to this? I am assuming I will need to lift the board up and connect it via a ribbon cable using the input on the top of the board.

    #623 1 year ago

    I have it sandwiched the exact same way. My problem is, even with the FAST mounting bracket removed, the board's black RGB DMD female header on the bottom side is not plugging into the connector on the back of the display. It doesn't even feel like it's reaching far enough to plug in. It hits the little alignment nubs sticking out of the frame surrounding the display panel.

    891 (resized).jpg892 (resized).jpg893 (resized).jpg894 (resized).jpg895 (resized).jpg

    Can I get around this by lifting the shield assembly up enough to connect a short ribbon cable to the display panel and connect it to the output connector on the top of the board instead?

    #626 1 year ago

    Yes that would seem to be the cause. The header is flush against the board on mine. I think I'll just use a ribbon cable, it's no big issue as long as there is an alternative.

    2 weeks later
    #627 1 year ago

    I'm having an issue starting the PIN2DMD tool. At first it said MSVCR110.DLL was missing, I checked C++ Redistributables 2012 and 2015 and made sure they were installed/repaired. Then I got "The application was unable to start correctly (0xc000007b)." Checked this with Process Monitor and copied the DLL from C:\Windows\SysWOW64 to the locations that were being read by the tool. Still have the issue, any pointers? Running Windows 7 Pro x64, noticed this is a 32-bit program. I installed libusb-1.0.dll into the same folder as the tool from GitHub.

    #629 1 year ago
    Quoted from lucky1:

    You need to copy the complete folder from github not only the exe.

    Ah! I believe your description on can be misinterpreted as I understood it as the EXE file being the only thing needed.

    3 weeks later
    #635 1 year ago

    I installed an SD card, activated the software, configured the settings and palette for Data East/Sega, verified the settings are saved, and connected it to Tales from the Crypt. Nothing happens besides the PIN2DMD start screen, the DMD driver board is working and I checked the cables, especially the DMD input cable orientation. What else do I need to check?

    #638 1 year ago
    Quoted from lucky1:

    If you use a version 3 shield you may need V2.36 on the board and have to check the signal enhancer checkbox.
    What is the status of the diodes between the 2 buttons ?

    I have a v3 shield, yes. Can't remember if I tried the signal enhancer option, will have to check. Which 2 buttons are you talking about, which board (Discovery or shield)? Am I looking for LEDs?

    #643 1 year ago
    Quoted from vbobrusev:

    I turn it on in settings on device and save configure. It's working on last available version.

    I'm having trouble saving my settings. When I turn the display on it has my palette and Data East settings on the screen. When I connect it to the computer and launch pin2dmd.exe the settings change on the LED screen to the default palette and virtual pinball setting, which reflects what is shown in the program. If I close the program and restart the Discovery board by powering it off and back on it's back to my customized settings I have on the micro SD card.

    Clicking save settings after making changes, including checking the signal enhancer box, doesn't do anything. Then I close the program and reboot the Discovery board and open it again and see the settings are back to the default with no signal enhancer checked.

    #645 1 year ago

    Updated the files on the SD card, works fine so far. Will let you know if it works in a game!

    #646 1 year ago

    Still no luck, swapped out 14 pin ribbon cable and tried both orientations. Signal enhancer setting is on. Tested with 2 good driver boards. Pressing reset button resets back to the PIN2DMD screen, tried booting with game on and off, same result. Maybe I have a faulty Discovery board? I know it's loading settings from the SD card but Sasha never showed it displaying a game image before he sold it to me. Video of the board LEDs:

    #648 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rappelbox:

    I assume it's a fault on the breakout board. If you have a soldering iron, and a multimeter we can check that asap.

    Sure, what needs to be done?

    #651 1 year ago

    There is a jumper on the back of the board if that means anything.

    #653 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rappelbox:

    Please test the connection as shown in the picture below.
    Somehow, I have the feeling that the connection between the red cable is missing.
    Remove the ls123 and bridge it like in the 2nd attached picture.

    The pin layout on the board near the connector is not the same. I'm sorry I guess I was under the impression there would be no difference in designs.

    IMG_0959 (resized).JPGIMG_0957 (resized).JPG

    Quoted from tjc02002:

    For what it's worth: it looks like your board has the signal enhancer bypassed according to the text on the board. so if you checked signal enhancer in the tool this might cause an issue.

    This! After disassembling the board I finally noticed this tiny jumper that says signal enhancer bypassed when closed. Removed this and got signs of life! But what text that showed on the DMD during attract mode was frozen and the display became unresponsive, even after turning the game off. Now I can't even get it to display the game dots again but the behavior of the LEDs was different in both cases:

    However, I did find the chip you mentioned and will try your suggestion next.

    IMG_0960 (resized).JPG

    #654 1 year ago

    IT WORKS!! Removing the LS123 and jumping the pins fixed it. Thanks for all the help!

    #656 1 year ago

    I'm sure I checked it, but it's fine now. No shift, no issues at all. Thanks again. Hopefully this will help others should they encounter this problem.

    Starting palette for TFTC, I'm leaning towards orange/yellow/green.

    #660 1 year ago

    Any advice on running the Java PIN2DMD Editor on Linux Mint (Ubuntu)? I see the software relies on Apple's Cocoa API (I copied the .jar from the Apple .app file). Can you point me to the Ubutnu version you were running in those screenshots? I only see the Windows and Mac version listed on the downloads page.

    java -jar go-dmd-clock-<br />
    Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: Could not load SWT library. Reasons:<br />
    	no swt-cocoa-4623 in java.library.path<br />
    	no swt-cocoa in java.library.path<br />
    	Can't load library: /home/username/.swt/lib/linux/x86_64/<br />
    	Can't load library: /home/username/.swt/lib/linux/x86_64/</p>
    <p>	at org.eclipse.swt.internal.Library.loadLibrary(Unknown Source)<br />
    	at org.eclipse.swt.internal.Library.loadLibrary(Unknown Source)<br />
    	at org.eclipse.swt.internal.C.<clinit>(Unknown Source)<br />
    	at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.<clinit>(Unknown Source)<br />
    #662 1 year ago
    Quoted from lucky1:

    We did´t use any Linux version for the screenshots.

    I know, I see some videos posted by Stefan running the Java version on Ubuntu though and was curious to know if that's still possible?

    #664 1 year ago

    I don't think any color modules small enough exist do they? Plus that would require reengineering the entire driver circuit since everything is one board.

    1 week later
    #668 1 year ago

    When I create a keyframe, change the palette colors with the keyframe selected, and change to another keyframe (or press Esc to deselect/save the keyframe colors) the palettes for the keyframes don't save. The palette doesn't change from the previously chosen colors when selecting a different keyframe or when playing the dump past the selected scene. Anything I might be missing? I watched your video and followed what you were doing.

    #670 1 year ago

    Yes I downloaded the nightly build. And I am clicking apply.

    #674 1 year ago
    Quoted from tjc02002:

    Do you have any recommendations on a way to fix the issue so we could use the signal enhancer(like run some jumper wires and cut some traces or something?

    The solution has already been explained for Data East games. My understanding is if you remove the chip needed for Stern games, affected boards won't work for Sterns.

    #675 1 year ago
    Quoted from lucky1:

    Sounds strange to me how you describe the process. First you need to create a palette and then you assign the palette to frame
    as a starting point for the switch to that palette by hitting Add PalSwitch. If duration is 0 the palette stays until the next switch
    or lasts for the number of milliseconds. Make sure the frame is unique and repeatable.

    Ok, when playing with a keyframe selected I didn't realize it would not update the palette on the next keyframe. I created 5 keyframes, each one assigned to a palette. This works so far, but clicking mark start at the first keyframe and mark end at the fifth then clicking cut to create the scene still doesn't switch palettes when playing the scene. The program is certainly cool, I'm sure I must be doing it wrong.

    1 week later
    #692 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballsp:

    This is where connect in Data East pinball, to get 100VAC for DMD power supply, very easy and fast with the two quick splizzer I provide with DMDST32.

    Actually according to the below schematic, these are the 100vAC and 90vAC leads. 100vAC is on black-red and white, at least on US games.

    IMG_0992 (resized).PNG

    I put my Data East kit together, but I had to move the display controller. I decided to attach this to the backbox door which works out pretty nice.

    IMG_0978 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0980 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0981 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0983 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0987 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0988 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0990 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0991 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0993 (resized).JPG

    4 weeks later
    #696 1 year ago

    I'm looking for the post in one of the old threads where someone was trying different types of gel filters to improve contrast. He tried 3 different shades of filter side by side and there was an extended discussion on that, I think he was using it on Twilight Zone in white. Can anyone find this thread/post? If not does anyone have any suggestions on where to buy a small sheet of gel filter and cut it to size for 128x32/192x64 windows?

    2 months later
    #703 1 year ago
    Quoted from Elwood_BE:

    I tested my display in two different pinball machines that work both with a standard DMD.

    Based on this it doesn't seem to be an issue with the game. Elwood are you using the Discovery board and shield solution from Rappelbox? If so I ran into this issue which is a design problem with the signal enhancer circuit not working.

    #712 1 year ago

    You must distribute the bitmap images (copyrighted content) if you want more than 4 colors. Because instead of telling PIN2DMD to use a color for each shade, you are instead telling it to replace the frame with another piece of content entirely. There are 4 shades built into the original display architecture. If you want to exceed 4 colors you must import colorized (modified) custom frames (copyrighted content).

    #728 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dmod:

    Thank you for debunking Lucky1's previous post, and exposing the Pin2DMD project for what it is.

    The same group behind the Pin2DMD (Lucky1, Steve, and Rappelbox) has also worked to create knockoffs of PinDMD, the Run-DMD clock, and Pinsound.
    If you respect the time, investment, innovation, and contributions of these original projects, please support the businesses created to bring them to market and provide for future development. We really do appreciate it!

    Quoted from Dmod:

    As Lucky1 has now supported with evidence in his previous post...
    The same group behind the Pin2DMD (Lucky1, Steve, and Rappelbox) has also worked to create knockoffs of PinDMD, the Run-DMD clock, and Pinsound.
    If you respect the time, investment, innovation, and contributions of these original projects, please support the businesses created to bring them to market and provide for future development. We really do appreciate it!

    Why are you copying and pasting the same post twice? We get it the first time.

    #733 1 year ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Didn't the PinDMD/Pin2DMD guys have the LED panels working before ColorDMD anyways? I thought ColorDMD didn't start releasing their LED panels until after Pin2DMD was out.

    Correct, they did it first. It was implemented and tested before ColorDMD announced their version. I have a feeling ColorDMD's product would have been delayed or not released at all if it weren't for PIN2DMD's proof of concept.

    #735 1 year ago

    Ok cool, I wasn't stating this as fact, just a guess.

    #740 1 year ago

    Are you just bent on making yourself come off as a bit if a jerk in this thread? All they ask is the section of your code the project infringes upon so we can clarify this issue and hopefully put this disagreement behind us so both parties can move on and enjoy pinball.

    3 months later
    #760 9 months ago

    Do any of these on that list feature full colorization? Or are they mostly single colors?

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