There goes me, causing trouble and ordering an F746.... I dont mind waiting for it to be tested

Sorry Luis for the hassles!!

Sorry for the basic question.

How does this colorize Wpc games? A table in a previous post showed smartdmd support only for stern.

Is it safe to assume Sega Whitestar is good too? I know Stern modified it at some point, but I imagine not the DMD hardware.

Ok, fine, thanks.

I have a friend that has many pinball and he has received today one of my DMD, he will test about it with several pinball to see about remote and length cables to know exactly what machines require remote. I only know about Safe Cracker, but may be there are more.

No problem, I will test it along this week, I have one STM32F746 that I ordered to test it.

It is already time to check, because of all tests with F405 and F427 were ok, I think also with F746 must work fine, all these MCU are compatible pin to pin.

You may have misread my question. I was only asking if >Sega< Whitestar is included when you said "Stern Whitestar" is supported. I guess it's unlikely Stern modified the DMD when they took over Whitestar.

Just to make it very clear, I mean this platform:

http://ipdb.org/search.pl?mpu=33&sortby=name&searchtype=advanced

versus this one:

http://ipdb.org/search.pl?mpu=41&sortby=name&searchtype=advanced

When can we see this in action?
Im saving my pennies for 2!

Good and bad news.

First bad news; I have tested F746 and unfortunately its not compatible with F4xx MCU, so can not install in my current controller board, pin19 to pin49 are different in F746 in relation to F427 (see picture attached).

And good news, a friend received today my DMD ST32, and he has test it with several pinball, mainly to know about two very important matter to me.

1.- To know if my DMD power supply may work with 100VAC, and YES work perfect, he has connect my DMD to 100VAC from video controller board in WPC and from power supply board in Data East and DMD work, no problem. This is very important to may do a PLug and Play.

2.- Check if DMD with power supply attached may install in most pinball, so if enough space between DMD and boards to avoid remote power supply, and YES may install compact DMD with power supply attached in most pinball, tested in several Bally/Williams, Data East, Stern. Tomorrow he will check in some Gottlieb.

And today I have receive several IDC quick splice terminals, to provide only ONE universal cable to conect DMD power suply in all pinball. With these kind of connectors, do not need solder or cut cables, simply put the two wires to connect in one splice terminal, pres it with a pliers and both cables are already connected, easy, fast and reversible.

Pictures attached, not compatibility F746 vs F4xx, tests that has do my friend with several pinballs and DMD ST32, and picture about splice terminals to do universal cable practically a plug and play for all pinball.

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So what's the way forward with the F746?

Rest of the solution looks to be shaping up very nicely.

Do you know if the F746 CPU will absolutely be required for basic colorizing, like palette switching? Doing full frame replacement as you have said will require this chip correct?

I hope not, since colorising is exactly what i'm intending to do, and due to the fact the F746 isnt possible yet, have gone for the fastest currently offered (F427)....

He previously said it was necessary for advanced recolouring - presumably frame by frame and total recolouring, and anything else fancy they want to support. Now edited out though after the test results to say it would be for the future.

I'd rather wait, personally. The attraction lies for me in a full featured solution, and I'd rather not buy something which is essentially hamstrung or obsolete from the beginning. Also, the system really needs those features ... it would attract people to start colouring games, and make it a much more attractive alternative to ColorDMD.

Well, to may use F746 need to do a new controller board design, where replace current F4xx MCU by F745/746, becasuse of unfortunately both chips are not full compatible pin to pin. Its easy, I may do it in one day, and send new PCB to manufacture, but that PCB will be only compatible with STM32 Cortex M7 F7xx chips.

To do advanced colorize where replace frame by frame need also a fast memory where store colored frames, and so can not use the SD card because of access is very slow. Solution is add a parallel RAM memory to new design, store colored frames in a file in SD card, and when firmware start read file from SD and store in RAM memory. Then with a powerful MCU like Cortex M7 and parallel RAM, will be possible to apply key frame and replace frame by frame with multiple colors. Im not sure but I think that last pin2dmd firmware, apply key frame to change palette to a sequence of frames, so yet apply convert brightness levels by colors, not colorize individual frames replacing original by new colorized stored in file.

I do not know how much RAM may require a colorized file to store, but for example a 64Mb x 16bit parallel RAM has a price of about 8 euros, cheaper if order in quantity to China. So total price for new controller board with F746 and Parallel RAM may increase in about 20-30 euros or less. At any rate yet need develop firmware to do it, hardware without software do not do anything. Meanwhile develop new firmware may use F7xx based board with current pin2dmd, because of Cortex M7 binary is full compatible with Cortex M4, so only need check in source code if some IO port need reasign, recompile and work.

I think its possible without using an expensive FPGA. One more solution also cheap is the new Raspberry Pi 3, though with before versions also it is possible.

My friend today tested compact DMD ST32 with power supply attached in Gottlieb pinball, and fit perfect. So one more that do not need remote installation, compact DMD ST32 for plug and play, easy and fast. I think most pinball may install compact version of DMD ST32.

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I think "most" means more like 99% of all titles. I'm very impressed with these results.

Okay, this is a little concerning now, I thought colorization is the whole point...

What exactly qualifies as "advanced colorize"? How slow is the SD? Frame replacement via the SD was one of the options I thought might be viable. I thought certainly there must be bandwidth for such lowres display. Each frame seems to be 1kB (128*32*2). I guess plasma refresh rate is pretty high, but certainly animation rate doesn't need to be so high. 30kB/s seems a pretty slow rate. Where is the problem? Is it real-time read lag? Simple double-buffer streaming to on-board RAM could compensate?

Where did this quote come from. Is the current hardware expected to be sufficient for most games, and "advanced" techniques are rarely required?

That's a relief. I was typing a post and looking rather sad whilst doing it. IMO that would have been a disaster for the project

Will it allow full frame recolouring? I.E. the entire frame, not just the active pixels? Can it drive it at 120hz?

Also, that latter video looks like there's really good control of bleed and excellent contrast. Are you using a film?

It's not a quote. Based on what has been found 99% of games will work, at least 99 out of 100. The only exception so far seems to be Safe Cracker. I'm also wondering about Cirqus Voltaire.

Sweet, I thought it was only key frame color pallet changes. Cool stuff!!

Are there any issues with the high, or highest refresh rates? Overshoot etc?

Always difficult to tell from videos, but that looks dramatically better than the first lot of videos that did the rounds with the original DMDs that FAST sourced. Contrast looks better than the unit ColorDMD showed.

What was driving the FAST sourced RGB DMDs you are referring to?

Aaron
FAST Pinball

I THINK it was ecurz's board? But like I say, it's difficult to tell from videos. Unless the camera and lighting conditions are the same, can't say for sure if one was better. Just the way it looked in that video, it seemed to look like the best I've seen so far.

Gotcha. Yeah, the video above is shot in the optimal lighting for contrast. In my experience, the panels are either good or bad. From there it is the power source and the driving method that makes up the quality and stability of the output.

Lots of development going on in the RGB DMD space. Looking forward to sharing more about our efforts soon.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Regardless of display itself, it'd be nice if there could be some kind of standard reached for driving it. Whether it be the pinballsp controller here, or someone else's. Unity on that fron would be extremely beneficial in gaining traction.

Ok, very good news, Jörg.

I really do not have techical data to know if current hardware has enough power to run firmware to replace frame by frame with new full colorized like do Color dmd, they use an FPGA, so I thought its a process that require high power in real time to process frame, calculate checksum, look for it in a table and replace original frame by colorized frame.

If you have test it already and work, then its perfect, because of if F407 may do it, then F427 will do even better, and the best with F746. I understand then that you store colorized frames in SD card and read it in real time.

Do you think its interesting manufacture controller board with F746 microcontroler ??, I may do it in one day, manufacture PCB, and full assembled board in one week. But this board only will may install F7xx Cortex M7 microcontrollers. Also I may add HUB75E support for P2 panels, to work with SEGA 192*64 displays and try to add holes to fix it to P2.5 and P2 led panels. Current F4xx binary is full compatible with F7xx.

Well if the M4s do work for frame by frame full colour (ColorDMD actually has a number of rules and limitations I think?), surely the question is what fancy stuff could be added with more power (M7)?

Guys dont get so hung up on size, its how you use it those F4s are amazing little processors and very powerful when used properly taking advantage of all its hardware modules etc...

If you want to jump ship do it properly and go FPGA least you only need to jump once

Is it true that the SEGA size panels won't work with the software?

Because of people already have receive my controller board and ask about how upload firmware, these are instructions to do it. This controller board do not install programmer, so can not update it from Coocox Coide, except if you connect an ST-Link V2 programmer, may do it if you want, because of board has also connector to program it directly.

Well, instructions will be to upload firmware with BOOT option, by USB, so do not need any additional hardware, only install DFU USB software from ST (its free), install drivers and run software.

So, go with it.

.

INSTRUCTIONS
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1.- Download and install ST DFU USB software and drivers, from this link.
http://www2.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/development-tools/software-development-tools/stm32-software-development-tools/stm32-programmers/stsw-stm32080.html

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2.- When install software, you will see two utilities, "DFU File Manager" this is to convert BIN file to DFU file to may upload it, and "DFUSe Demonstration" this is utility to upload firmware to board.

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3.- Run utility "DFU File Manager", select option "I want to GENERATE DFU file from S19, HEX or BIN files". Next screen select Multi BIN, File option and select your BIN firmware file, Add to list, OK. In next screen press GENERATE, and select file name and folder to store DFU file. Close utility.

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4.- Remove BOOT jumper from controller board, and connect USB cable from board to PC computer. If Windows request drivers, those are already installed if you have run and install already DFU USB software.

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5.- Run utility "DFUSe Demonstration". If your board is without BOOT jumper and connected to PC by USB, you will see it in this utility ("STM Device in DFU Mode"). Now in "Upgrade or Verify Action" press "Choose" to select your DFU firmware file (file you converted in before step). Now press "Upgrade" and firmware DFU file will upload to board. When finish, utility display message "File correctly loaded".

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6.- Now you may remove USB, place BOOT jumper in controller board and thats all, your board is already update with firmware.

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REMARK: if you work with last open source pin2dmd V1 (1.37 version) to recompile with Coocox, BIN file must to be store in folder firmware\deprecated\source\PIN2DMD\Debug\bin. So when you finish to compile it, get BIN file (pin2dmd.bin) to convert to DFU file (pin2dmd.dfu) with "DFU File Manager utility", and upload to board with "DFUSe Demonstration" according with before instructions.

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Thank you Joerg to provide DFU file.

And about BOOT mode to load firmware, I have detect a little problem with F427 processor, do not know yet why but Windows do not recognize it when put in boot mode to work like a DFU USB device, but work perfect with F405 and F407. In my first tests with F427, DFU USB worked fine, but now seem do not want recognize it, tested in several boards.

Im working to solve this problem now, seem some relative to drivers or stability of oscillator (crystal quartz), I want test also with a HUB USB 2.0, and also I have order several F427 in Europe to see if problem is F427 chinese. Currently BOOT mode with DFU USB work perfect with F405 and F407 processors, tested.

For F427 until I solve it, solution is program it directly with an ST-LINK V2 programmer, because of board has connector to connect it. For people that has order and pay already DMD I have offer send the programmer ST-LINK V2 for free, to may load firmware. But for new orders, solution is order F405/407 to work in boot mode or need add the programmer ST-LINK V2, its a very cheap device (about 22 USD).

Sorry and my apologies for this problem, Im working to solve problem as soon as possible.

If something goes wrong during flashing will this brick the controller board, or can you retry?

No problem about it, you may reflash board always again, can not damage it.

If I can not solve soon boot mode for F427 I will add one mini STlink v2 programmer for free with each controller board, only for those with F427 microcontroller, because of with F405/F407 boot mode work perfect. So also will may program it directly from Coocox Coide and even do Debug if somebody want modify sources and test it.

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I continue with tests to solve F427 boot mode. Tested with USB HUB, keep same problem.
Today I have receive a new batch of F427, these with different printed reference, so I hope with different BOOT ROM, origin of manufactured is different, these are KOR (understand mean Korea) and before were PHL (understand mean Philipines), all ST original but different factory, different reference.

So, today I will assemble a board with new F427, and also I will test with some F427 and F429 from Europe, to see if some install a correct BOOT ROM.

If all fail, no problem, I have order already a batch of mini ST-LINK V2 programmers to load firmware with ST-Link Utility, exactly like do with Discovery. At any rate product will solve this problem soon for F427. For F405/F407 boot mode work perfect.

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I'd suggest putting more work into Stern Spike than SEGA games ... it'd help get this whole project off the ground really quickly. Even if ColorDMD support Spike soon, the first Spike coloured titles are probably a long, long way off. People would buy this to avoid the red-mud of the new Spike DMDs, at less than half the cost of a ColorDMD.

Can I buy something now for bally williams?

Hello urbanledge.
For Bally/Williams work fine, my full assembled DMD is ready (F405/F407 boot mode load or F427+stlink programmer).

DMD color full assembled (without WIFI), for Europe countries ------------- 164 Euros (one pcs)
DMD color full assembled (without WIFI), for USA, Canada and Australia -- 153 Euros (one pcs)

ONE cable to connect power supply included in price for DMD with power supply attached to led panels. If you want remote power supply then need two cables and one terminal block, then must add 2 Euros to total price. Both options include two splice terminal for fast and easy installation (do not need cut or solder cables).

+WIFI, add 4 Euros
USB cable and micro SD card NOT included in price.

Freight cost by Courier with tracking number:
USA, Canada and Australia ----- 39.5 Euros
UE (Germay, Italy, France, Austria, United Kingdom, etc ...) --- 26 Euros

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$45 for shipping, wow. Is that because of the box size?

They're not going to send an item of that value uninsured and untracked.

They are in Spain - you are in the USA - we in the UK have similar issues when ordering from the US which is a pain bearing in mind most pinball related items originate there).
The item has already been discounted for US buyers meaning it's the same relative price if in Europe or the US - I don't think I've ever seen a US based seller do that!!!

39.5€ by courier with tracking number, Spain to USA. Freight cost for 2kg.

Its the cheaper I know, at any rate if somebody has account with Fedex, Ups, Dhl, charge freight cost to his account and only pay product. Or if several people want share same shipment, will be cheaper for each one.

Locally in Spain freight cost is only 7€, same for Portugal.

These bracket/panels are more expensive to ship because of the length being greater than 12".

Aaron
FAST Pinball