(Topic ID: 175889)

Stock Market Traders?

By kpg

7 years ago


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Post #5101 Roth conversion advice. Posted by iceman44 (3 years ago)

Post #19981 How To Read US Debt Clock Posted by pinnyheadhead (5 months ago)


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#476 6 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

For day trading, everything I have read says 25k minimum. So that may be out for me. I was hoping to day trade stocks and start with around $1,000. So is this just not possible?

I went to AllyBank, and this is straight from their webiste:
Day-Trading Disclosure
ALLY INVEST SECURITIES LLC (“Ally Invest”) DOES NOT PROMOTE DAY-TRADING. If a customer engages in day trading, the following rules apply.
Definition
Customers are considered as engaging in Pattern Day Trading if they execute four or more stock or options day-trades within a five-day period in a margin account.
Minimum Account Equity
If you are designated as a Pattern Day Trading customer, you must maintain at least $25,000 in account equity in order to maintain day-trading privileges.
If a call to bring the account equity to the minimum amount is issued for your account and the call is not met promptly.
The account will be restricted to cash until the account equity is brought back to the minimum requirement or at least $25,000.
You will not be allowed to day-trade in your account.
You will not be allowed to open and close positions on the same business day. All opening transactions must be held until at least the following business day to avoid further restriction.
Within these restrictions, you may still trade on margin (if you maintain at least $2,000 in account equity) and utilize buying power.

Don't day trade. You seriously have better odds at a blackjack table. (and it will be more fun to loose money while getting free drinks)

I recommend the podcast 'Invest Talk' with Steve Peasley. Listen to that show for 6 months before doing any trading. You will learn a TON.

I use TD Ameritrade. no minimum as far as I can tell. Fees are low, and the tools are super powerful. Great phone app as well.

#478 6 years ago

Anyone have thoughts on BGS?

I dipped by toe in with 1% my portfolio @$36.00 which I thought was a good buy now we are down to $30.92 today.

its a 2 billion dollar food packaging company. with 5.9% dividend. Seems investors think Amazon is going to conquer the grocery industry with Whole Foods. But honestly I don't see that happening. Thoughts?

#480 6 years ago

well Amazon has no dividend.

as for other food distributors, anything even close to a 6% is pretty crazy for something that isn't a REIT. I feel like its going to find support here at $30, historically looking at the chart it might bounce around the high 20's for a while. But I'm kinda concerned they will cut their dividend and we'll get a massive plummet like TEVA did last week...

2 months later
#530 6 years ago

I've gone 75% cash until we get a pull back. With the market as overpriced as it is, and the tax reform stuff not a sure thing, I'd rather miss out on a minor bump up than be on board for a big drop.

I did buy half a position of TGT today... its been trending up, with a 12PE and 4% dividend triggering next week I figure its worth the risk for a few months. see how it shakes out over the holidays.

my biggest holding right now is a double position of DIS. Picked it up at $98 last month and intend to hold for the next 3-5 years and see how it's new streaming service works for it. wondering how ESPN might play into that. They also will be ramping up for some climactic moments in their franchises, 'Infinity Gauntlet' for marvel, and the end of the Star wars trilogy. I'm real hopeful for Disney in the next 3-5 years.

ETF that has been most solid for me over the past year has been ROBO. that little guy just keeps marching upward. I feel bad skimming profits off the top every couple of months, but I don't even know what volatility looks like for that ETF... would love to buy more after a pull back.

#554 6 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

So when you get out of the market and into cash, how do you know when to get back in?
For that matter, how do you know when to get out in the first place?
When you sell a big gaining stock, do you immediately have another in mind to buy? How do you find the winners consistently?

This is my strategy for 'getting in, and out' of the market. Right now the Market is over-priced. Can it go higher? yes. Can it stay over priced for years to come? yes. Is it possible it will not ever have a big drop again? No. The one thing you can always count on, is that there WILL be a sudden and steep drop at some point in the future.

Until then, I am not 100% cash. I'm 75-50% cash. Some opportunities can always be found in any market. The stuff I'm holding is mostly big blue chip multi billion dollar companies. Most of them also pay big dividends (though, while most people will tell you a dividend increases your 'safety' it can also be a liability when cut... *looks at TEVA*) anyway... In the event these companies have a huge decrease in value, I will be comfortable just buying more. These companies are not going out of business anytime soon. but I need to have the CASH to buy more. That's the most important part.

If a Stock drops 50% after you buy it, it needs to increase 100% just to become par again. Look at any chart and its clear the movement up is almost always a very slow steady climb. But the drops are sudden and steep. It could be years before you just get your money back, much less start making money on the investment.

For simple math, I put $200 into the stock Market. The market crashes 50%. I need to get a 100% increase in value on my stocks to break an even $200 and recover those losses.

But let's say I have $100 in the market, $100 in Cash. Market Crashes 50%. I ADD the $100 to my position after the crash. I now only need the values to increase 35% to achieve my original (now $200) investment, and recover my losses. If the values return to their original pre-crash value, I'll have $300, instead of $200.

You don't want to get out of the market entirely. You could be missing out on years of overpriced growth. But stay 50% in, and you get 50% that growth, and are only exposing yourself to 35% of the risk. With re-investment, dividends, etc... this all gets very complicated... But boil it down to basic components, its just how much greed/risk ratio are you comfortable with?

To your other questions,

When I sell a Big gaining stock, I almost never sell all of it. I try to not have any 1 stock be more than 5% of my portfolio. If a stock does super well, I'll sell it off to a 2% position. I'm never in a hurry to re-invest that cash. The one thing you can always count on with the market is slow growth, and sudden losses. You want to be excited when you see a sudden drop in value, because you have a lot of cash to invest on that opportunity.

As for finding winners, that's really up to everyone's individual risk comfort level. Personally,
1) I don't invest in any company that doesn't make money (Tesla).
2) I try not to invest in any company with a market cap lower than a Billion.
3)I also try to find low P/E values, and solid Dividends.
4) The last and more tricky thing I look for is companies that took a nose dive because of 'news' and not fundamentals. (MNK recently as an example. Their sales are slowing, but they are making MORE money, but the value of the stock plummeted, because of the slow down on sales. So I picked some up. Made 6% today on the bounce.)

These rules become less tangible as the list goes on, and carry less weight in my decision making as the list goes on. make your own list of rules, write them down, and look at that list any time you want to buy or sell a stock. Write notes as to WHY you bought it, and what your goal was for it.

in my DIS purchase, I Bought it last month because it always makes money. It is a HUGE 159Billion company with a clear road map on how it wants to become bigger. It was at a very low 52 week average. Has a 1.5% dividend (meh). In the past 2 years it has reached value of up to at least $115 three times.

-I will begin selling DIS when it reaches $120. and I will sell more and more if it continues upward.
-If DIS has a sudden drop in value, some months later once the price stabilizes, I'll double my position.

#560 6 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

The great thing about index funds is the diversity and distributed risk that means few instances where I need to worry about 20%+ losses.
How do you know the market is over priced?
What happens if you're not in the market on the 20% of days that yield 80% of the returns?

The market is not a static, binary, predictable thing. There are so many variables its impossible to 'know' whats going to happen, ever. So you need to take a bunch of info in, and make your best educated guess as to whats 'likely' to happen...

You can assume the market is overpriced by checking a few things:
https://valuespreadsheet.com/value-investing-blog/5-ways-to-know-if-the-stock-market-is-overvalued-or-undervalued

PE ratio of the indexes, = Currently high but not historically crazy
The Shiller PE = Historically by this metric we are in big trouble
dividend yields = (I personally think this has more to do with an evolution in business practices than market health)
Interest rates = Scary stuff there, big trouble
Market cap to GDP = again, scary big trouble

Index investing protects you from dips and drops of individual companies, but it does not protect you from full market drops. You are absolutely still at risk for a 20%+ drop. That said, the market also ALWAYS recovers given enough time. So if you are 'comfortable' taking a 20%+ drop in the short term knowing it may be 5-10 years before you get that money back, then don't sweat it. Put that money in an index and just forget about it for a few decades. especially if you are going to keep adding money regularly into your account. You'll be fine.

as for not being in the market for the 20% of days that makes 80% of the profits, If I am still 50% in the market with half of my money, half of it IS making those overpriced profits. Recognizing that when things are exploding up, I should be taking profits off the table and reducing my risk constantly.

I have a goal of making an 8-10% return a year on average. If I have a stock that's up 15%, I will cash 50-75% of that in, and lock that return. When that stock continues to raise another 30%, I do not kick myself for taking profits earlier. I am happy that I got that much closer to my goal, and sell off the rest. If I am reaching my goals, there is no reason to RISK loosing big money just because I didn't want to miss out on 'maybe' more than my goals. Gotta keep that greed in check.

Ive been told I have unrealistic goals, and I've been told I'm too conservative and am missing out on big yields, ultimately, do what works for you. I am very happy using my method because I'm reaching my goals. Other people have other goals, and other methods. To each their own.

1 month later
#572 6 years ago

also a conservative choice is to invest in a total stock market ETF like 'VTI'. regularly put (x) amount in. When the market has a big correction or goes bear, put in (2x) instead. Market always recovers, it always goes up over a long enough time period. If you can ride out the downturns, and see them as 'the market is on sale' you'll make big returns on the way back up.

Its not an exciting strategy, but it will work.

3 weeks later
#593 6 years ago

"no one can time the market" is not true. On a long enough time line, it's very easy to time the market. There are good times to start getting in, and there are good times to start taking profits. If you are willing to be patient, and accept the risk that you will 'miss out' on some gains in exchange for not taking heavy losses, you can absolutely use 'time' to minimize risk.

It's almost a guarantee that in the next 2 years the major indexes will take a 10% - 20% correction. (or more...) waiting for that correction, and then beginning to cost-dollar average in on the recovery, will provide you with the lowest risk returns.

Likewise, if a new investor with 100k is told "Go all in now! It's taking off like a rocket and there's no timing these things!" then a week later watches 20k vanish from their account, they are likely going to panic out and stay out.

The problem with how most investors give 'investing advise' is that they usually are looking at things from a 'How to MAKE THE MOST' mindset. The fear of missing out being their primary drive, and this imaginary competition they have with everyone else on who's getting the highest percentage returns. The goal of 'Make the most money as I can' is not a goal. It's a never ending cycle that can never be achieved. It starts to cross the same realm of gambling addiction. Most people unfortunately approach investing with the 'Make as much as I can' Mindset. It's human nature, which is multiplied and exploited by our culture.

Goals are everything. Why are you investing? What are you working towards? The most common answers to those questions have to do with retirement lifestyle, and making sure your family that survives you has something to inherit. Those things have an estimated dollar value (x). Spend some time thinking about what (x) is for you. Then break that down to how much you need to save per year (with average return from the market) in order to reach that goal. If you have made your goal for the year, begin minimizing your risk. When people tell you "but you MIGHT be missing out on making (3X)!" remember that 3X is not your goal, and if you go leaping for it, you could get set back years. I've met people who were 'All In' on the 2009 crash and just THIS YEAR made par with their original valuation on those accounts...

The market is complex, and human emotion and reaction to loss is even more complex. Simple rules like 'Always be all-in' may be sound mathematical advice, but people are not robots. Most individual investors loose money in the market then panic out, because they try to follow advice that conflicts with their gut instincts and emotions.

All this to say, any simple rule applied to something as complex as the market, is probably not as simple as you think.

1 week later
#638 6 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

There are people that have been waiting for a correction since 2016, I would not want to have missed the gains since then.
You cannot time the market regardless of whatever timeline you want to use.

naw, your right. That's why Warren Buffet is sitting on more cash right now than he's ever held.... You right. buy in now. buy buy buy.... I hear Bitcoin is gonna be big.... better not miss out...

Never said I was out of the market waiting for a correction, Said its worth skimming profits to have cash on hand for when the fall comes. (and it will) Was just offering a more conservative viewpoint for those of us not chasing huge returns at great risk. But by all means, continue your fair weather enthusiasm.

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