Ive been lurking this thread for a while... some interesting information here.

I more than doubled my investment in appl and bailed out. Missed some upside but at some point gotta cash out and hard to complain with a double up.

I had someone managing that account and it just went sideways.. fired them chucked it all in Appl and got lucky to ride it up.

Im just going to stay parked in cash.. too much weirdness around.

As long as the fed props things up its probably hard for market to crash but who knows.

We are in some kind of backwards bizarro world in so many ways.

Is it a retirement account?

At the moment due to covid you can pull funds from retirement without the 10% penalty... but still have to pay taxes on anything that was tax deferred

In my case I threw a bunch of money that was stuck in an IRA into apple a few years ago and I am tempted to take it out so i can use it elsewhere and its not stuck there.

I am up so much in that account that I dont care about paying the taxes and not getting clipped for 10% saves me a bunch also.

Ask ur accountant... may vary depending on the type of plan you are stuck in.

I tried that and my account went sideways for years... took it over myself and more then doubled it. lol

"expert" is all relative these days.

Company called Payne capital out of NY... to be fair to them this was when the market was pretty much rolling sideways and well before the current crazy bizarre market where a chimp could make money.

But yah they werent able to do much of anything but charge me fees so I fired them.

This type of shit is ridiculous.

My girlfriend is a teacher and not only does she have to put money into her retirement (no choice they just take it out) but she has an extremely limited range of options to invest in.

They are all very risk averse so pretty much goes nowhere...

I bailed 100% and took my profit and will sit it out unless it tanks pretty hard.

Look where it was in March (last time I grabbed some)... its had a crazy run up.

I dont think its tanking that hard but I could see under $100 without too much trouble.

Appl will be interesting since all I have heard over the last few months is no one cares about hardware and the phone cycle anymore.... the iphone cycle is a thing of the past blah blah. Its all about services and the app store etc etc etc

That being said the stock always seems to be looking for any excuse to run up so why not 4G?

Its as good a reason as anything else in bizarro world.

You really do or you are kidding?

Only people on I ever met on the planet that own one is you and my brother.

Huh... guess Im an old fart. Where i live I have not seen a single apple watch (not looking for them either so that may be why) but I will admit its an older area.

I cant imagine carrying around a phone all day and wearing a watch that basically connects to my phone and does the same stuff??

thats so meta.. ugh the kids today.

More power to em.. lets get appl up to 200.

Its funny how short a memory people have... $440 is a bargain?

Its held its higher price and run up for a few months and now thats the bargain?

It was 370 not that long ago (March).

WKSH has gone from like a buck to over 20 on just pure speculation and BS?

The company just bleeds money and its numbers are pretty bad.... pathetic actually.

They are in the running to get some USPS contract but thats not likely to happen.

Its just people speculating like Tesla because its one of the few e-car choices and running it up but the company has serious management issues also.

"Workhorse has some early mover advantages when it comes to electric delivery trucks, but this market is about to get pretty crowded. Workhorse generated a loss of $133 million in its latest quarter on revenue of just $92,000. That's not a typo. The future could be bright for Workhorse Group in what is clearly a niche with heady upside, but the expectations are already too high for a small company with a nearly $1.7 billion market cap."

yah I was looking at that this morning.

In this bizarro world market it could end up at $400.

"valuation" is realistically $40 so ten times that seems about right these days.

Its been gambling for a while now.. there is no rational explanation for the market last few months (well other then the fed).

Earlier in the thread people were talking up WKSH.. this is a company that had revenue of 92K and lost 132 million in one quarter which is pathetic.

People are buying it like its the greatest company on the planet. lol.

Its just looney some of this stuff.

Oh yah I know but I could say the same about tons of stocks.

The inmates run the asylum at this point... great time to make money if you are that brave.

I dont blame anyone for going after stuff and trying to make a buck but its straight up looney allot of it.

A company that actually makes money is doing well in the stock market?

How refreshing....

I though these days you had to bleed cash or make up crazy future products to double up.

Huh... I was thinking more like dipping under $100 to rebuy.

Appl is a tough one since every two weeks they are pimping something else.

A few months ago no one cared about the 5G cycle and that "doesnt matter anymore" it was all about services, app store... now since its the 5G cycle thats the thing again.

so it went from hardware doesnt matter to now all about the hardware. lol

I hear you.. you are on the money on appl.

I bought it in 2018 at $150 pre split so Im not complaining, just felt like it was time to take the money and run recently.

I want back in but I am more concerned about Biden then the stock.

Should he gain traction or get elected no less the incoming bidenapocalypse is more of a concern.... just capital gains alone will have people cashing out.

Why is it crazy?

Appl went from $370 a share in March to over $500....

Its not crazy when it blows up and gets ahead of itself only when it goes down?

yah but appl is a real company not some crazy unicorn

This is very true but it reminds me of the old Steve Martin "how to be a millionaire and never pay taxes" where step one is to get a million dollars.

The first assumption in this strategy is that you have enough cash reserves to last a year and not panic sell when things go south....

The second is on top of that that you have enough left after your cash reserves to invest and make a fortune.

In other words this is great advice if you are already "rich" by normal standards.

Its no different then any other form of gambling... dont risk money you cant afford to lose so you dont panic or do something stupid. People fail at that daily.

I understand all that... I was just referring to the advice in the article.

"The idea that you keep a large cash cushion so you don't have a worry about seeing your stock portfolio tank. With six to 12 months worth of expenses in the bank, you decrease the risk you're going to panic sell to retreat to the relative safety of cash. You already enjoy the relative safety of cash. You invest - and ride out stock market storms - from a position of strength, not anxiety."

I sold off my house in a trendy expensive area and started renting after a divorce a few years back... didnt "have to" just felt the right thing to do.

Been renting ever since and don't regret it a bit.. nice to not have to care about maintenance etc.

At least where I am housing market is still strong and I couldnt see the point of throwing down on another house even though I looked.. maybe if housing tanks.

I live in a nicer house then I would probably buy and its worry free.....

If you dig into it this company looks horrible on paper.

It's gone up solely on wild speculation and could come down hard when people get skittish.

I had thought about CCL..

A few months ago I would have thought noone would ever want to cruise again after this.

After some time of seeing how completely stupid and reckless most people are anyways I think they have a good shot of coming back.

Plus they are generally cheap vacations and money will be tighter for allot of people.

Cruises are all about getting loaded for allot of people and the lockdown has made countless numbers of new alcoholics too.

I live in a tourist town and it went from being a ghost town to sort of back to normal over the last few weeks..

This is despite numbers and cases being more now around here than when everything was closed.

Seems like a few weeks back everyone just said fuck it if I get sick I get sick.

I would be the same way but being from NY I know a number of people who suffered through it and one person who has been a long hauler and has had it come back for months.

I dont need that shit so Im staying home even though I can walk to some pretty great bars and food...not worth getting crazy sick over.

Yah I dont know you would even begin to discuss the stock market and ignore politics.

They are pretty well intertwined.

I usually find all the political talk boring as shit but its relevant to any stock related discussions.

Well I use the easy method which is to not give a shit...

I know what my opinions are and no one posting anything on the internet is going to change that so why argue with them or care what they say.

Seems like an odd call since it will likely tank the market which is about the only positive thing going right now.

Its always good to remember that the stock market is the main mechanism for the rich to get richer.

It is a bit of a "rigged" game as it were and is getting more and more so over time as technology has advanced.

Logic and actual information are not as valuable as they should be.

There is allot of smoke and mirrors like the fed just printing money with nothing behind it or bank bailouts or any number of other forms of economic fuckery.

End of day if you have money its hard to go wrong throwing it in solid companies for the long haul.

Every bank is just chock full of grifters... they get way with murder (and of course get bailed out by the govt when they really fuck up)

My friend works for Deutsche bank and every week there is some kind of new scandal there.. they usually pay some BS fine that is nothing to them and move on.

Eh you know..

when the head of the "corona virus task force" (whatever the fuck thats is supposed to be) and everyone around him gets corona virus people get worried.

Ah yes... as former .com employee and stock holder I remember that phrase very well.

Easier said then done and rarely goes as planned.

Its a buzz phrase to make investors feel better that they bleed money and make little.

Man you guys have some balls trading in this market... enjoy the rollercoaster.

The election is bound to be cluster and cause panic no matter who wins..

Anything will help... end of day .coms are so expensive to run they need to make an obscene amount of money to catch up.

Well what do you think is going to happen?

Small business is getting ravaged, covid is raging and we are about to have a likely contested election so.....

.coms are their own planet.

The one I was at literally kept hiring people to "show growth". Nowhere to put them and no work for them or anyone with time to train them, just had to add body count. People would come on and just sit around all day and get paid.

They had me interviewing people in my sector for tech jobs and it got to the point where it was a few a day so I just asked them the dumbest questions I could think of just to mess with them.

They had no idea they were going to get hired just for showing up.

Literally, hi... have a seat. I like your haircut, whats your favorite band? ok here is a 75K job now go away. lol

hate to break it to you.. but even to this day .coms are as full of shit as they ever were.

Oh no worries on the SEC... the .com crash took care of their wealth or potential wealth (and mine).

That company went from having Mary Meeker come tell us all how wonderful we are to WTF happened in a year or so.

They kept putting off going public and by the time they did it was armageddon.

Yah you have to show you are "growing" to get more money... and when you get more money you have to spend it to get even more money.

Its a treadmill.

Plus if you are thinking of going public the bigger the company is the better off you are.. so more employees equals bigger perceived size and value.

I did enjoy doing things like coming back from lunch at the Chinese place and asking potential new hires if they prefer kung pao to orange chicken and why.

Stock market climbing up...

we may a see a real challenge to democracy in this country and possibly rioting in the streets so of course it goes up.

Welp.. never a good sign when the president builds a retaining wall around the white house.

A friend of mine "in the biz" said the general thought is that Dems may crush it...

in which case more generous stimulus becomes far more likely sooner than later which will give things a kick in the ass.

usually Dems winning would not be good news but stimulus is really what they are betting on hence the boost.

well its not really "politics"... Im not saying one is any better then the other etc.

Just that this is what some people are thinking on the inside (i.e. someone who actually works literally on wall street).

Depends on who you talk to... some people seem to think Biden will be terrible for the economy in general and that will drag markets down over time.

Others see the gridlock as good so if the senate stays republican he will have a hard time going nuts on taxes etc.

Either way he is likely to push more stimulus and that will definitely jump the market.

Once the current crazy ass legal stuff gets debunked there will more stimulus incoming.

Free and cheap money never hurt anyone... well the millennials and other future generations I guess.

I expect lots of gridlock and money printing... so the rich will get much richer and the future will get mortgaged to death with debt.

If I had kids i would feel sorry for them but I dont. Roll the printers.

I have had a few people tell me the "ideal scenario" is Biden with a republican congress.

Looks likely unless Trump can find all those "fake votes" lol lol lol

How is this different?

there has been outbreaks of all kinds of sickness on cruises since the dawn of time and people still go.

see above... its not buy and sell buy and sell buy and sell

I am out of the loop on this stuff...

can some one explain why its not legal to play poker online for real money anymore but this shit is OK ?

They were all offshore back in the day but why wouldnt anyone just start one up in the US at this point?

They just kind of blanket made it illegal... kinda sucks because I used to make pretty easy money on there. People in general suck at poker.

yah I just find it amusing that everyone loves your advice on here except this bit which is the most important thing. lol

Otherwise its just day trading and throwing darts.

Just as a customer prospective... Dropbox sucks.

They basically try to annoy and harass customers into paying them... they give you some free storage and then make your life hell until they get money out if you.

In a nutshell their biz model sucks. I had a client using it so had to be on it and I regret every minute I had to use it.

I know 15 or so people that dropped them and use something else now so over time I look for them to be out of biz since its a competitive space.

Love this stuff....

A bunch of kids gaming the system the way hedge funds and day traders do all the time and "its a problem lets panic and shut them down"

Bunch of hypocrites.

Hilarious..I dont care much for millennials etc but good on them for calling bullshit on a rigged system.

yah... how dare you little bastards do what we do all day.

Manipulating markets is our thing. wahhhh

Whatever you think of this what its going to do is expose in daylight what blatant bullshit the stock market has become.

BBC world news had a good story on it and the guy reading it was snicking at how clever it is.

They can restrict whatever they want but the cat will be out of the bag that the market is 100% rigged against small investors (and this comes from someone who has benefited over the years)

These are the things market crashes are made of.... a what the fuck is going on run for the hills panic.

Hey at least the word is getting out and its major news globally...

For allot of people its going to be a clear look at how completely fucked and rigged shit is.

You cant fuck over the little guy forever, good on these kids for figuring it out and making a goof out of it.

They will run shit someday so I am impressed (finally)

get in a time machine and go back two days?

hahahaha

reminds me of the end of trading places where the rich guys start losing their shirts and start yelling "stop the trading"

Will be fun seeing all these con men have to explain what they do for a living and why what they do it perfectly fine and this wasnt.

good fucking luck.

Yes, all this news that will likely change the way trading is done isnt relevant to the trading thread.

Lets talk low risk mutual funds (they suck).

OK here is a stock tip. buy and hold. unless its GME.

This is one reason why this is so great... they picked a company they know sucks and is doomed.

The kids today just love sarcasm.

The whole thing is a goof which gives me faith in the future frankly.

You think something may be rigged?? hmmm lets see.

economy sucks? market goes up.
pandemic? market goes up.
possible end of democracy? market goes up.
record unemployment? market goes up.
record closings at retail? market goes up.

Over the last year you can make any number of lists of things that should cause the market to drop its pants yet it still goes up.

Why? because its 100% bullshit as is this country continually printing money it doesnt have.

yes.. bullshit.

near zero interest rates is not a good thing... printing money with nothing to back it is not a good thing.

keep putting air in the balloon.. we all know how that ends up.

Well no..

we have one bar of gold we are really good at moving around quickly so it looks like more. suckers.

The funny stuff is some media and "industry experts" trying to school principal this shit.

Saying things like we need to put "restrictions in place" to teach these poor children about proper investing and to protect them from themselves blah blah.

Its like the principal in high school telling you "this will go on your permanent record".

These kids know exactly what they are doing and why.....

yah this whole thing is a bunch of suit and ties being pissed off that someone has gamed their system.

How dare you kids manipulate the markets... thats our job.

Bunch of scumbags.

What surprises me is that this is "news" to anyone... its been a rigged game forever and has only gotten worse over time.

People really have no shame with what they will do or who they will screw over for a buck.

Its always been rigged but now its just stupid.

The more computers and software got involved the easier it was to fuck with.

Well this would be good because at this point that dont really do much of anything and are worth 1000 trillion bazzillion

they may want to get on that revenue thing and actually and do something other than "innovating"

What are you doing? ...

oh me? Im thinking of doing something.. oh wait no, I'm innovating. yah thats the ticket . lol

Fixed this for you...

but there WAS money to be made there

Hell no... if you are invested for the long term don't run away.

Learn from the people who bailed in 2018 or March 2020 only to miss out on the great run of the last few years.

It's going to get ugly but thats part of investing long term.

nah you haven't seen anything yet.

2022 is going to be a shitshow.

Overcorrection? have you watched the news?

crazy inflation, highest gas prices of all time, a war, supply chain is fucked, on and on.

The fed cant prop up this pig anymore.

See you when the dow is back around 20k.

Just saying if you are looking to "buy the dip" you may want to wait a while.

It's going to pop back up here and there but the actual bottom is a ways away.

Like any bullshit float or "loan" you gotta pay up someday or take your hit. Only so much air in the balloon.

That day is coming sadly... and as usual the middle class will get hammered.

Fed way overstepped more than once... so the smackdown is likely to be as brutal in the other direction.

P.S. Cramer is a moron. I am still amazed people pay attention to him, I guess when all you do is yell bullshit all day you are hard to miss.

Wise move.. anyone I know that is rich (like stupid rich) its off real estate. Stock market is always a form of gambling and seeing which way the bullshit winds blow.

That being said next few years probably aren't great for real estate either. Most everyone I know in commercial is sitting it out and waiting to see what happens.

Have to be patient real estate is a long haul game so you dont get that dopamine hit of daily stock market excitement.

50/50?

We are already in a recession and the Fed has been slow to act.

At this point it's how bad is it going to get.

As someone who has bene trying to hire for the last few months I can tell you that people don't want to work.

The people who do want to work want too much money and feel entitled because there is the perception that "lots of jobs" are out there.

The coming shitstorm is going to wreck some serious havoc when reality sets in.

I look forward to all these people who asked for crazy money circling back later to ask if I can still hire them so I can tell them to fuck off.

Total bullshit... the free money years have made everyone think money grows on trees and the next bailout is right around the corner.

I'm trying to hire at what historically would be higher than average pay and offering hybrid work for those who are too big a pussy to leave their house.

There are no more bailouts and other bullshit coming... nothing but recession and struggle.

"I'm too good for this job" wont work when you run out of food and cant pay rent in 2023.

I'm not hiring people that have to worry about "getting anyones order wrong".

I'm hiring for corporate level jobs and those workers don't want to do anything either.

Not every employee in the US is in the service industry, I agree those jobs suck and I have no idea why anyone would want to do them.

Those people especially got shafted during Covid having to for example go work in a supermarket while their bosses stayed home.

Depends on the job... what I am hiring for really cannot be done properly from home.

That being said I am still offering some form of hybrid because I know that is the thing now.

Also for every unicorn like you who can do the job from home and perform better there are 10 people who are just coasting and doing the minimum to hold on to their paycheck.

Anyways I give up... this isn't a jobs thread.

Enjoy the recession and hope the work at home army isn't the first to get laid off when the shit hits the fan.

PPP loans, extended and expanded unemployment, rent abatements, school loan deferrals, on and on

Yes, everyone knows that this country was built on the backs of great men who stayed home because you know... its just so much more comfortable there.

My grandfather was an immigrant/ veteran / metal worker who busted his ass because he had to feed his family.

All I know is we are about to hit what is likely an epic recession with the softest, whiniest workforce in American history.

Work smarter.

Work smarter would mean don't work for anyone but yourself and stop bitching that life is unfair. But you wont because it's easier to complain.

Yes, this is exactly the same thing as being an employee working from home.

Great so grow a pair and start a business out of your garage and stop complaining about your "work conditions".

Dude... I don't care. I've given the best advice I could give anyone.

Dont like your work conditions? hours? boss? commute? Start your own business and do it your own way or STFU.

Feel free to list your excuses why you can't because they don't matter.

Good job deleting your earlier post BTW.

May want to copy this... you are going to be saying it often.

Damn.. some of you guys are seriously optimistic people.

I can't find any news anywhere that leads me to believe the market is done swan diving. Seems to be just starting up really.

If you can I would be interested to hear it.

I don't even know how valid historical data is in this case since we have never had the sheer number of issues at the same time as we have now.

That sounds like something a really bad broker would say. Its a slow moving train...

It will be "priced in" next year after a ton more pain.

Well jesus... the market has always been overvalued now its just comical. Tesla being a prime example.

if the market was at actual "value" the Dow would be 5000 (which it may well end up at this rate)

The problem here is that we are in a recession but no one has been willing to call it yet so news is still up and down.

Plus todays market doesn't have much relation to the earlier ones since the fed has pretty much propped this up on its shoulders since 2008.

When the spinning plate show stops and everyone finally has to admit we are there in full blown recession the real drop will start.

People can "buy the dip" all they want but from what I know the real drop hasn't even started yet.

The fed had been dicking around with the market since 2008... their taps are finally off. Good luck.

It matters for perception...

all the news is "are we heading into recession or not" blah blah which causes some of the up and down and is keeping it propped up a bit.

When the news turns to "guess what? we are in a recession" watch out.

I am a business owner and thats how I see as do most others in my position with employees etc.. recession is really the concern.

As you say I know companies that have already had hiring freezes so layoffs are next.

Call it whatever you want... none of the news is good, just semantics really.

It's already ugly, people just don't see it. Takes a while for the news and mood to match reality.

Well here is the thing... no one lives in reality anymore especially media.

CNN has been saying for weeks that two periods of down GDP are a recession.

Then it happens and instead of calling it they say "are we in a recession?"

Its a joke... we are and have been in recession despite their fake jobs numbers and they need to stop the bullshit and deal with it.

Nothing has a proper definition anymore and all data is suspect so what do you do?

They are all full of shit... as is the current administration.

The last thing they need around a midterm is a recession but thats where we are and they need to shut the fuck up and get to work.

As usual they deny and drag their feet and will act too late and things get out of control.

Its gotten ridiculous.... just kick the can down the road.

Much like the "fixing the environment" thing. Should have maybe started on that 30 years ago?

A bit late now and giving me a fucking paper straw or making plastic bags illegal isn't going to change that.

Just look at our fearless leaders today.

"We are not in a recession"

Um, yah we are asshole, just ask me and everyone else I know who owns a business. We are and have been in one.

They have two modes... under-react and then panic and over-react when they get it wrong (which is most times).