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I've been trying to be non emotional about this and thought about waiting this out, but I'm sitting on so many things that were 50-100% up I decided to take the profits on the growth stocks and sit on the sidelines and see where this goes. Did a little adding to some div stocks yesterday though.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Bought 1,000 shares of Cisco at 42.50
I wish I waited 1 more day to sell the Amazon puts..
I'm curious to your reasoning for buying Cisco, I've been hearing nothing but negatives about it lately.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:I hope you are wrong.
I think a lot of companies will start to think about moving their factories out of China and back here after this latest fiasco out of China. At least in this country, we aren’t going around eating wild bats.
Hmm..I really doubt that. This is a minor bump in the road compared to the pennies on the dollar they get there (assuming 1/3 of the population doesn't die).
Quoted from Richthofen:Gone nowhere for as long as I've been watching it (15 years). As far as inflation hedges, a friend once told me "the best way to beat inflation is to own things that are inflating in price". Gold moves with stocks-ish mostly now. If you want to own something that moves counter to the market during a down period, I still like bonds better. Lots of bond funds pay dividends.
So..pinball machines. We are all in the right place! 
*cough*
An interesting perspective, at least to me is that, I was completely unaware of the 2008 crash until many years later, it simply did not impact me in any way and I don't tend to watch the news back then. At that time in my life I was doing better than any other time in my life, and it's only been up from there. Being completely unaware I wasn't worried about anything.
The big difference then to now is I didn't have anything in the market (other than some 401k). Today, I'm still at the top of my life game, but with more consideration to retirement years and a lot more 401k and additional market play, I'm watching this much more and I simply don't know exactly how to respond to it - or when to decide the 'issue' is over.
Quoted from Concretehardt:Crazy to think that even now we could close up 1000 points or down 1000 points.. This market is scary!
The afternoon profit taking is already happening.
Quoted from Methos:I held off buying...damn.
You will probably get another chance. This isn't over. I haven't found what was 'said' that drove the afternoon spike, but that's usually what happens. Someone somewhere said something. The entire market was selling when I posted, then it reversed and spiked fast. That doesn't happen in a vacuum.
Quoted from Friengineer:But then where is your money? In a saving account? That's like saying I work too hard for my money to grow so I'll leave it in my sock drawer. You only lose if you pick a terrible company and they go under or if you sell your stock. Review post #1515 & #1532
In a hole or 100 in the back yard.
I should clarify. I'm not making 'new' purchases. I cashed out the stuff I was way up on to take the profit, kept the stuff that was only so so up (or down for that matter) and paid divs. I've averaged down on some things over the last week. I'm not buying back into things I sold out of until this levels off. I didn't touch my 401k.
You are all making assumptions that the market is going to continue to go up past where it was before this. The problem is it was already way out there. Between this and the election coming up (which...honestly I don't think is going to change from what it is now) I am a bit resistant to throw everything in near the top. Maybe not the best idea, but I'm risk adverse.
Also, I work for a bank. I'm limited in what I can do, but I work closely with the market teams (but I'm not in finance, nor do I claim to know that much about the markets)- and the word they use to describe the market right now is 'insane'.
Quoted from rai:most people (myself for one) are interested in stocks for the long haul as in Decades (multiple decades) and these prices are going to seem very low in 20-30 years time. No one can time the market (fooling yourself if you think you can) you need to be right twice both at the top and bottom and if you miss the biggest 5-10 trading days of the year you miss out on 90% of the gains and might set you up for losses as you chase stocks after they go up.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/04/11/what-happens-when-you-miss-the-best-days-in-the-st.aspx
While the premise sounds good, this isn't even realistic. Most people who 'did nothing' wouldn't even notice this assuming it goes back up to what it was. They would be contributing money on a normal schedule, not on a single day that goes up. That is the equivalent of trying to time the market. In most cases they are missing those days.
In reality, the market dropped 12%, then went up 5%. Making 3-5% in a day is nothing if you lost 12% the day before - and then it goes down another 10% after. (again in the article it's talking about buying during a spike - which most people wouldn't even be able to do. It was a 1 day bounce). My take is, the market is going lower. At this point it's anyones guess. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not.
Quoted from Mike_J:I’m only interested in what has the potential to make me a lot of money.
So you don't care what companies do to get that money?
Quoted from Mike_J:What nefarious behavior are these companies participating that should give me pause?
It doesn't matter, we will most likely disagree on it and regardless of what is said it will go nowhere. It's all good.
So let me get this straight...some of you are so sure it's no big deal and blame the media and you think Italy listens to the US media to decide how panicked they should be? It's called being responsible and thinking of others. Some of you could use a dose or two of that. I think some people need to get out of their bipartisan mindset and realize that the world revolves much less around the US than it used to.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Last week, I was in Universal Studios Orlando for 3 days and Epcot for 1 day.
I actually saw people wearing masks in the parks (plane too). My feeling, is if you're that afraid, why even bother going into the park.
To show you how much I'm not afraid of the coronavirus, I was away last week, I'm running a half marathon April 4, going to NY Auto Show the following weekend, then Disney to run all 3 Star Wars races (5k, 10k, & half marathon) April 16-20, then another half marathon the last weekend of April.
Again, if it was as contagious as the media makes it out to be, why wasn't the LA Marathon canceled?
Clearly you haven't done any due diligence. Sure, I get why you wouldn't trust the media, except facts have been released over the last few weeks from reputable sources which have been plastered all over this forum (aka CDC and WHO). I trust them a heck of a lot more than some random doctor in the middle of nowhere.
Secondly, you clearly do not understand why this is being taken seriously. It isn't to protect YOU. It is to protect others who ARE in danger FROM you giving it to them. It's not rocket science. We don't care what you were doing/are doing. If you get sick you won't know for weeks, and most likely you won't feel much, but the likelihood you could give it to your sick grandma is high (just an example). But of course, per the normal blah blah blah me me me, all you care about is yourself, and since it doesn't impact you, it's 'overblown' and 'fake'. Quit comparing it to the flu. It isn't the flu. It's ANOTHER sickness we don't need.
Do you think other countries are overblowing it? Do you think they are watching fox and cnn and saying - oh shit we need to quarantine our populous? They aren't. They are actually listening to their medical professionals that are saying this could get really bad.
I do agree that people are panicking way too much though. No need to clean out shelves. None of that is going to stop / save anyone. Common sense will though, and part of the common sense is considering what you are doing and how it might affect others around you.
Quoted from Friengineer:Objection, Speculation. You're assuming A) Trekkie catches the Corona Virus, B) has no symptoms whatsoever, C) has a Granny who's alive, D) sees Granny and infects her.
All HIGHLY unlikely. Granny's more likely to catch the flu from the casino or venereal disease from shacking up at the old folks home.
Back to STOCKS please. Is big oil really dead? Is XOM toast because of their debt load?
So basically you only care about the money and it's an inconvenient truth and just mad the market is down. Got it. I'm currently IN that potential situation, it is a very likely scenario. But thanks for proving my point.
Regardless of what you believe, the market is reacting to it.
Quoted from noob-a-tron:-3.9% in 11 minutes
Must be all those media people selling their stocks.
Quoted from noob-a-tron:Just wondering when our housing market follows.
Word so far from the pros says it shouldn't impact that...at least if it doesn't last long enough for lots of people to lose jobs.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:https://www.mphonline.org/worst-pandemics-in-history/
About me? Really?
It's overblown. 7.5 BILLION people in the world...114,000 have the coronavirus. Put that into perspective. The numbers don't match the hysteria. Remember, this virus has been around for almost 3 months.
Millions of people are being affected by a pandemic that isn't a pandemic.
How about the retirees who are having their pensions hit right now?
How about the people in the travel business who are losing money?
How about all the shipping companies who are losing money?
How about the people getting margin calls?
Think about all the net worth that has been hit in the past 2 weeks.
There's a lot of people taking huge financial hits because of all the fear that is being spread. But I forgot, it's all about me.
And yes, I will take the words of doctors everyday over the words of the press.
The WHO is a political organization. They rate the UK as the 18th best healthcare in the world and the USA as the 37th....even though the UK has some of the worst cancer survival rates in the world and the USA has some of the best...and half of all the R&D in healthcare takes place in the USA...
You already showed all your cards in your first post. I see where you stand based on that and there's not much else to say to you regarding making you understand why you could be wrong. No one is saying this is a good thing. No one is saying it 100% will come to pass. And most certainly no one is disagreeing about the media hype. However, if you sit back and pretend it is a hoax because you hope the market stays up, you're pretty much leaving it up to the virus to decide what happens. Thoughts and Prayers.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Would you like to tell me what the cards are?
7.5 Billion people on the planet.
114,000 have coronavirus.
It is called math.
https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year
"Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000.
The CDC also estimates that up to 31 million Americans have caught the flu this season, with 210,000 to 370,000 flu sufferers hospitalized because of the virus." (article is only referring to USA numbers)
More from the article: "Overall, the CDC estimates that 12,000 and 61,000 deaths annually since 2010 can be blamed on the flu. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the flu kills 290,000 to 650,000 people per year. "
Again, it comes down to math.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/arts/1918-pandemic-coronavirus.html
https://www.wbir.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-q-and-a/51-aec9c063-76ca-49b0-adf0-8826de5357bf
Do we really need to go through this again? Go do some actual research (or read through some of the other threads that actually have all this stuff laid out). Your math while correct for the flu, has nothing to do with this...as has been explained by many people more knowledgeable than you or I.
Quoted from Friengineer:Zablon: claims media is NOT fake, discredits same media as fake.
Firstly, I've never said that. In other posts I have questioned just who we should be listening to since China isn't exactly a hotbed of honesty and every other main outlet is considered biased. I stand by the CDC info first. WHO was on top of that. I've watched/read very little 'media' regarding this, and take much of it with a grain of salt. My point is, the issue isn't that the media is overhyping it, because other countries aren't beholden to our media. The same people screaming 'the media the media' are the same ones saying the market wouldn't go down, etc etc. The honest answer from all involved should be a flat out, you don't know wtf is going to happen. We're all in the same boat of a guessing game at this point.
Quoted from cottonm4:Carnival Cruise Lines has given up 20 years worth of action. All the way back to about 1997. But it look like CCL has been having some problems before finally falling of the cliff. It was a $72.00 stock and now it is $22.00. Must be those short sellers and the newsies. CEO's are always looking for someone to blame when their stack takes a hit. I don't follow CCL and don't know then fundamentals but the chart sure stinks.
Anybody buying here? Any brave souls? Step right up, folks. Buying op of a life time.
[quoted image]
I'm holding steady for another week or two to see what happens. My gut hasn't been wrong yet. CCL does seem like something that could recover nicely out of this, but then if this is all overblown as some want to claim, everything will look good in a week or so.
Quoted from pinballjah:Any recommended dividend stocks right now? Ford at 10%, crazy. Thanks.
Lots of thought that F may cut its dividend if things don't start looking up for it. If this lasts, it could be bad for them. (Note I hold a bunch of F stock).
BMY is a personal div favorite of mine that should recover when this is over.
Quoted from cottonm4:Looks like the early morning relief rally has faded. But the day is still young.
Some of you talk about Boeing. I think Boeing, a major DOW stock, will see $200.00 per share as this virus crisis (or whatever you want to call it) continues.
Their issues go beyond and before the virus though...
Quoted from Jimmyhonda:In my opinion, if you have cash laying around, buy low now, sell high later. The corona virus has slowed tremendously in China. It will slow everywhere else too. The market will jump very quickly when there is a glimmer of hope. Which there will be. Eventually. People selling off everything is crazy to me. The flu is more prevalent and just as dangerous as the Coronavirus. Just look at the numbers. Media is blowing this up. Don’t get me wrong, I would’nt go visit Italy right now, but things will settle soon enough.
Agree with the first sentence, disagree with the rest of the internet doctor guessing since it's already been covered repeatedly and you are rehashing the same uninformed statements as everyone else crying because the market is down. With it just now getting to the US, we don't know what we are in for yet.
The safest bet if you really want to buy on the down, is buy a little each day/week of what you are interested in and keep cash ready.
Quoted from cottonm4:As has been mentioned somewhere, with zero commissions, dollar cost averaging is a whole lot easier then it used to be. Hell, you could buy 1 share a day or 1 share in the morning and another in the afternoon.
This is very true, my point was simply rather than blow all your cash on one day, spread it out over the next month. I've been buying small increments of my holdings as the lows happen. I haven't talked myself into buying into anything new at this point.
Quoted from Mike_J:My company employs 63 full timers. Twenty-eight of these employees own shares in the company.
My partner and I decided to close our offices for 10 business days, beginning tomorrow, while continuing to provide paychecks to all full time employees. This week all employees are off to tend to family obligations. We will all be telecommuting the following week. Due to this most recent rate cut, we will be taking out a loan which will be used to pay out our end of year bonuses, in full, on April 1 as opposed to December 15. It will also be used to pay health care deductibles for all of our full time employees through the end of June. My buddy who runs one of the largest GM and Toyota dealers in NY and NJ is doing something very similar.
Now we are hardly the titans of industry, but we are trying to do right by the folks who do right by us. So to answer your first question, yes, this rate cut will be helping people who are not members of the “upper class.” Maybe ease up on the negativity, just a little bit.
It was a legitimate question. Perhaps do the same? That being said, I don't see a company of 63 being in the 'upper class' that I was referring to, so it is good to hear you think it will help you and others.
Quoted from Mike_J:Are you very young? I wish I was.
I'm in the middle. Also, I wasn't intending any insult about the size of your company. I was differentiating between the well off and super well off. I'm well off myself.
Quoted from DBLM:We are in an unprecedented situation. dcfan has been saying for a while now levels that he thinks we will reach. I kind of think we will be somewhere in the 16000-18000 range when we settle out. I look at it this way: we are just about a week into this becoming real for the US. How long do you think it will be a major factor. Picking a number at random, lets say 10 weeks. We are 1/10th of the way through it. Cases and deaths are a lagging indicator of where the spread really is. When those numbers catch up, it is going to have a psychological impact on people and markets. We are going to have periods of what passes for normal or stable punctuated by gut punches (death milestones, quarantines and measures, celebrity deaths, companies closing, when it personally impacts you, etc) that are going to take the market down. Psychologically, try to prepare yourselves that these things are going to happen, that they are natural in the sense that this is normal course of action for an event like this, and that every milestone represents one more point on the path of getting through this. Try to stay normal and in my case, I have seen that most of the COVID threads on here are actually not beneficial to me and have drained them. Just a lot of random stuff punctuated with politics and the like that are counterproductive to me. I am in a mindset that this is going to suck, it is going to get worse, but it is only for an amount of time. I realize that I am in a much better position than most, and that I should practice being more grateful and appreciative to others. I am trying to help out others in my community, and ask that others that can do likewise.
Eh, I cashed out quite a bit of stock towards the top so I'm good. At the time people were still saying this was overreaction. My reasons were slightly different though as due to job regulations I was locked out of buying anything for the last 3 years. During that time everything went up a lot, but I could not add to positions. Therefore once it started going down it made more sense for me to lock in profits and wait this out. Now it's just a matter of figuring out when is a good time to get back in.
Quoted from ReplayRyan:Wow what a ride that was in the last 10 minutes...
Honestly dont' get it. Almost guaranteed to open lower...
Quoted from Atari_Daze:can't do that, unless it for 50 or fewer patrons.
If they all have it, there's no harm!
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Stock floor traders sent Home? Complete virtual exchanges tomorrow?
Wow, smelling 16k, I wouldn't buy shit right now.
traders are working on skeleton crew, rest from home, but that's been a few days.
Quoted from boscokid:Just talking out my ass here, as I have no real knowledge of stocks.
Can we can all agree the 'experts' over the last 10 years could've made money in stock letting their 3yo pick them.
So, conversely, any idiot picking stocks to drop in the last month would likely be correct. So I wonder if the last 30 mins of trading where we see huge down days but last minute increases is nothing more than Short positions covering themselves and taking profits.
Someone has to buy those though...or am I missing something.
Quoted from boscokid:The person in the Short position has to buy them.
So if you are thinking "fkn awesome X stock is down" they still have to purchase to replace their imaginary original sell to replace them. So if you see $30 at 3:30 but can't get in line fast enough you may be forced to settle for $35
In effect creating an artificial rising EOD number as people who didnt even want to purchase are kind of forced to, to ensure they are not exposed to loss on the next day of trading.
Got it thanks.
I'm debt free, and have considered retiring way early, and if I was single I probably would, but (and this will sound bad) my wife loves 'things'. It would never work lol. I'll be working for awhile yet. Heck I barely spent much money until I joined this site....damn addicts. Not that I don't have fun, I work to pay for the things I enjoy doing. Unfortunately I've never been one to have a job I would say I love. All the things I really enjoy just aren't that profitable so I do them on the side (and they tend to be expensive hobbies). Doing something you love that you can live on realistically is a rare thing. I've had to pull myself up from nothing a few times in my life, it's always an experience.
Quoted from DBLM:Just came across CNBC that Ford is suspending its dividend to preserve cash. I think that is your answer.
dammit, i knew that was coming. :/
Quoted from desertT1:Wouldn't suspending a dividend make them less attractive to people and make it go lower? If they reinstate the dividend soon-ish as things recover would that potentially make it more of a value play?
In Fords case I'm not sure how much more unattractive they can get. Their dividend was practically the only thing keeping people like me invested in them and for many, that wasn't enough. That being said, I would rather they survive...so whatever it takes I guess.
Quoted from Pinballmike217:Feels like the market settled down today. Hoping the worst is over.
bwahahahhahaha. No really, hopefully...but doubtful. At this point, I'm fine with it falling further for awhile.
Hmm..
Martial Law
1 : the law applied in occupied territory by the military authority of the occupying power. 2 : the law administered by military forces that is invoked by a government in an emergency when the civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety.
Quoted from Chitownpinball:Well ya dude. My whole industry is based around live events at hotel properties. We literally bring in 1,000's of people to multiple hotels that then all have meetings within those hotels and then all get together in an arena at the beginning and end. Think about all the food and beverage lost, all that transportation.
I'm referring to them being up 20-30% today...MGM up 40% now...
Many of the Vanguards are decent. I am partial to VIG and VYM. If I had it to do all over again, I would have dumped most of my money on other stocks on those instead....Wait I do have it to do all over again, and that is my plan 
I would suggest researching the list of Vanguards as a starting point. They give you a nice dissection of the market.
As for timing...I don't think anyone knows at this point. I would say, don't throw it all in at once, in case you are wrong. Do it over a period of time - on a schedule, not really looking at the market prices after you start.
Quoted from o-din:Looks like they can get away with this shit... until they can't get away with this shit.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-calls-for-senator-burr-to-resign-over-insider-trading-ahead-of-coronavirus-055910184.html
My understanding is what he did wasn't illegal though. Now, if we take into account whether or not there was willful misinformation being fed to the public around what was known at the time maybe, but I'm not sure anyone can prove it...
Remember the whole Equifax stock sales fiasco?
Quoted from usandthem:What's the solution though? Don't U.S. Senators and House members get a defined-benefit pension? Perhaps they should be barred from purchasing securities. Otherwise, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Wouldn't anyone who is made privy to information that could sink stocks sell what they have? What's the alternative? Be forced to hang onto it for lack of insider information accusations?
Well, I can speak to this. When I have access to information that possibly tells me what the markets are likely to do, I'm not allowed to buy/sell stocks without some oversight if at all. So...I mean..what's good for the peasants and all... They aren't likely to vote against their best interests though.
Since lots of shutdowns are being extended another 2 weeks already... I'd say down. Honestly at this point, who is buying? Gambling addicts? I'd actually like to see what someone like Iceman is doing simply because he was so positive about everything. Is he still buying? Or did he finally decide to wait?
It will go nowhere. We just had this same issue not that long ago with Equifax. Very hard to prove. The only way anything happens is if the optics on it and public opinion is so focused that they have no other choice. If it had ONLY been one party, maybe, but it was both apparently. This is something that only impacts the little guy, not the bigwigs with money...
Quoted from cottonm4:" As Dow wipes out over 3 years of stock-market gains, here’s a warning about calling the bottom."
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-dow-wipes-out-over-3-years-of-stock-market-gains-heres-a-warning-about-calling-the-bottom-2020-03-21?mod=home-page
"First, let’s acknowledge that none of us can predict when the market will bottom,” said Brian Levitt, global market strategist at Invesco, in a Friday note...
" In fact, for Wall Street professionals, warned Nicholas Colas, co-founder of DataTrek Research, the temptation to make a bold market-bottom call carries serious career risk...
“ Over my plus-30-year Wall Street career I have seen more friends fired or lose clients because they tried to pick a bottom than any other single cause,” he said, in a Friday note...
" That means there “unfortunately does not exist a magic chart, table or bullet point that will answer all questions, let alone illustrate the bottom or foretell the recovery in stocks that WILL follow this,” Belski said. “Regrettably, a less negative and hopefully POSITIVE stream of headlines on coronavirus (COVID19 virus) is most likely the only acceptable antidote the stock market is yearning for right now.”
=======================================
I'm not looking for a bottom really, just looking for a 3-4 days of upside, just like I would normally. The problem I see right now is that with the whiplash, you might miss out on a lot of upside doing this...
Quoted from BobSacamano:If 4 Trillion bones can't bump this baby up, can anything?
A vaccine...which...isn't likely anytime soon. To a lesser extent cures, which seems to be on a possibly shorter timeline.
To actually answer the question though. I think approaching it from a throw money at it aspect will be a very short term fix. It assumes this will be over in 1 month. They can't keep doing this every month if it goes longer. We need to rethink how we handle economic situations.
Quoted from o-din:Asian market gets hammered and our futures max out down if that is any indicator of what's in store tomorrow.
Well this doesn't help:
Quoted from AstonEnthusiast:Investors are smart enough to see through poor leadership and that's a contributing factor to current market declines.
I thought this too...but somehow we had 3 very good years for reasons I've never been able to completely describe other than blind optimism.
This is the statement as to why they failed it. Without seeing it, assuming its true, I'd say this is a valid reason. I don't trust the corps to do what is right.
"Schumer insisted the bill falls well short of sufficiently protecting US employees, millions of whom are at risk of losing their jobs as the economy grinds to a halt, while offering a "large corporate bailout with no protections for workers and virtually no oversight.""
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:How come oil has tanked, yet gas prices in Ca or holding at 2.89 gallon and 2.99 a gallon?
They are very very slow to reflect this at the pump. Greedy bastards.
It's interesting isn't it. Typically in 'emergency' scenarios demand goes up and prices beat it to the punch. Where I'm at the prices keep dropping. Paid $1.49 a few days ago, no idea what it is at now.
Quoted from cait001:anyone else kind of creeped out by the "let the virus do it's thing and keep the economy strong" rhetoric coming out of parts of the financial sector?
Uh..that's been since day one. Plenty of it on this site as well as this thread. The problem is, these opinions do impact the market (whether you agree with them or not). It makes it really tough to know what to do. There are still many out there that think because the death numbers are lower than past issues, then it's worth the risk of just keeping business as usual.
They have to have money to be able to do that. Apple are the most expensive devices, and luxury at that. If no one is working, few will be buying their products for long. Most large companies don't buy Apple for their employees either. I guess it depends if you are of the mind this will be over and fine in a month or so. Not saying it won't go back up eventually...but we are a good week or more out before we are even in the thick of it.
Quoted from pinballjj:sorry guys missed a zero ! 10,000.....
Too late, I put my buy orders in already, no turning back now. I'm no quitter.
It's not about betting against, or timing, it's about nothing has changed from yesterday. There's NO 'positive' reason for the market to be up that much other than false emotions. This is why I suck at the market though, I don't agree with what drives it.
Quoted from loneacer:Maybe not since yesterday, but I think it changed yesterday. The Fed came out and said they would buy everything, including things they didn't buy in the financial crisis, in unlimited amounts.
Okay, I had not heard that.
Quoted from DBLM:What happened?
Asked for donations. (Like that operator gofundme thread that went over like a brick). Apparently he did it yesterday(?) but word is just now getting around. I mean...I don't have an issue with it, but...
Quoted from DBLM:Holy crow. Just read about this. What a crock for a 1 Trillion dollar company. This should be the cost of doing business for them.
Considering they are one of the few things that are still making money during this whole scenario, yea, it's pretty bad optics, especially for such a rich company that got tons of tax breaks and handouts starting out...
Quoted from cait001:While not as outrageous as Bezos begging for humanitarian donations for his poverty-wage employees, my favourite brazen request for government money has to be from Hobby Lobby. (The company that was bizarrely found trafficking in ancient Iraq artifacts)
haven't seen that one yet...*goes hunting*
Quoted from kpg:Absolutely. Leveraged ETFs are typically day trading vehicles or used as hedges. They decay over time due to re-balancing and other factors. They trick people as well, as their charts are completely inaccurate long term because they drop to almost nothing again, then they split into big numbers and decay to almost nothing.. rinse/repeat. Likely OILU will split here soon because of how low it has gone.
Example, TVIXs split history:
TVIX Split History Table
Date Ratio
12/21/2012 1 for 10
08/30/2013 1 for 10
06/23/2015 1 for 10
08/09/2016 1 for 25
03/16/2017 1 for 10
06/08/2018 1 for 10
12/02/2019 1 for 10
2X and 3X ETFs are NEVER a good idea to invest in long term. Get in, get out win or lose.
Yea I learned that lesson the hard way around $10k worth in JNUG/NUGT a few years ago.
Quoted from cottonm4:Well, this morning rally had faded fast.
What is next for The Fed? The powers that be must be pulling their hair out.
Does it really matter? 20-21k is not bad if it holds these levels.
Quoted from sbmania:no concerns about tomorrow's jobs report?
Isn't it basically priced in now? I think everyone in the market knows that unemployment has skyrocketed...
Quoted from desertT1:This is something I check every morning to see what the previous day looked like. As testing ramped up over the last week we saw numbers really climb fast. I think this is as close to real numbers that we are going to get compared to light numbers 2+ weeks ago.
Look at the difference between yesterday and 2 days ago and compare that with the few days prior to that. It’s a smaller increase. It’s an increase but once that goes flat and then declines I will be a lot more comfortable.
With NY doing testing of drugs hopefully that will cut the time it takes people to recover and hopefully helps reduce the rate it spreads.[quoted image]
Without knowing how many and who were tested the numbers are meaningless. Any day to day difference is just a guess from our perspective. For all we know they ran out of tests in a specifically hard hit area.
Quoted from Methos:Agreed. The collapse of 2009 was mainly due to bad loans, shaky securities, and just ill conceived borrowing and the like. 2020 is a bit different in that things were mostly strong.
My concern is still the size of the debt and what will happen to future generations, but nobody seems to give a shit about it.
I don't think we have a choice at this point. Staying shut down, or running, we're going to need money (apparently). If we aren't willing to change our stance on the economy, the best we can do is just smile and take it. Don't think this won't still be just another wealth transfer though.
Quoted from taylor34:I generally think here that is there is zero upside to where the market is at now. What do we know?
obviously we're not going to be open for business in April and May without a lockdown. No lockdown is coming, so this problem is going to extend for a long time
so far the options presented seem to help huge businesses and the service industry, but if you're a small business owner who made a decent amount last year you may be out of luck.
there's a huge amount of debt that will crush a lot of these companies if this extends on too long. Currently it's going to extend on too long
I really can't see why I'd want to own the market right now. Certain companies where I think they're going to do good either way (Coke, Pepsi, Verizon, etc) maybe, but companies that depend on travel and storefronts...it could be 6 to 12 months before we can go to them.
It basically took China 2 months to control everything and get Wuhan back going again, and that was when they only had 259 cases.
We have 65,000. And we're not even trying to lock it down in 75% of the US.
So at a minimum, you can add 2 months to any time we decide to lock things down finally. If we don't, then it will continue to fester indefinitely. We're not even restricting travel out of New York, just insane, that's going to make it even worse.
Outside of some miracle treatment/cure, we're going to be in trouble for a LONG time. Leadership doesn't get it. Only certain governors get it. Most companies don't get it either, they think this is going to be over end of April...got news for you, not happening. It mathematically can't happen without a full lockdown or cure.
About the only thing I'm comfortable owning right now is Gold/silver. Mainly silver, because it's completely out of whack with it's historic ratio to gold of 60 to 1 (it's like over 100 to 1 currently). And they could get crushed too if people need to liquidate more assets as debt comes due. But I like things that are out of whack with where they are normal, and silver is currently there.
This is what bugs me, corps get tons of money, poor get a little money, in the middle? Well you are out of luck so sorry so sad, you should have saved some money because you make more than minimum wage. How about we reverse this line of thinking everyone gets $1200 including executives, and then we see who the real geniuses are.
Quoted from cottonm4:It is chicken and egg. People need money to live. If this govt. thing works. you get the money, and mortgage relief in that you cannot be kicked to the curb, etc. But I don't know how far $1200.00 will last for a single person living in New York or L.A.
But you also need the business to stay alive any way possible so you can get back to work. If does not one no good to get gift. help if their job/company go tits up.
Bottom line. A lot of people/ companies are going to get some money they don't need. But trying to be fair will be difficult. But the big Corporations will have to jump thru some accountability hoops so the money does not just fly away.
Accountability is really all I'm asking for.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/weekly-jobless-claims.html
US weekly jobless claims soar to a record-breaking 3.28 million, vs 1.5 million expected
Quoted from sd_tom:just wondering how much "USA re-opening by easter" is getting priced in as a sure thing... when.. it's probably not?
Yea this is my thought too
Quoted from usandthem:Stimulus has such generous unemployment benefits that some workers were probably begging to be unemployed as unemployment would be an upgrade for many workers. I'm pretty progressive and that still just reeks to me.
I'm actually completely fine with it. It encourages not trying to work to make that 'extra' money until this is over.
Quoted from cottonm4:( This gets little longer than I planned. You can go to the bottom and Gert the gist of what I am trying to say. Sorry.)
My GFs daughter works in TV Land. I am pretty liberal but the daughter is way out there and it influences my GF. Nothing good to say about the current admin.
2 years ago, GF was in prep to get ready to retire. So she gathers all her money and placed it with a local guru. When the market threw a hissy in 2019 with regards to J. Powell's interest rate hike, and then recovered after the famous "interest rates are too high" beatdown, the GF who never bothered to look at her account statements started watching it daily. Her LT investor attitude disappeared when the green ink in her account turned red. I'm down $5,000.00 sniff sniff. But then the market recovered.
At the first of this year she was up close to $50K and asking: "What should I do? What do you think?".
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SIDEBAR: Several years ago I made a bad trade in her account that was a $1200.00 loss. And when Netflix had a big dump several years ago she called me from her work and said Netflix is down big time and she wanst to buy some. NFLX had been something like $250.00 and dove to $150.00. I said no. Too soon. And NFLX went on down to $50.00 and went sideways. I never told her to go in and buy NFLX. She, I discovered, has the memory of an elephant and every once in a while she reminds me of these two mistakes.
Now I have her number. She is the type who will take the credit when the trade is good and will turn around and blame the broker when the trade goes south. I do not give that woman any financial advise. NO FN way.
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So, what should you do, baby? You are on your own. . I don't know what the market will do. Good luck to you.
==========================================================================
So, all of that to get to this: The liberal daughter, the influencer, suddenly falls out of favor, and GF says" I'm thinking I might for for "Big T" as he might be the only one who can get of out of this" I almost fell out of my chair ! To witness how one person's stock account performance has almost "single handedly" switched an out-there liberal into a conservative "keep your hands of my jack" type of person.
Unlike the last market tank she lived thru, she is not freaking out and is resigned to the fact that she now is a long term investor and the market will come back.
Viva La "Big T" !.
The market up or down never altered my perception of him. Probably because I knew a lot about his personality and dealings before he was running. The only thing I do know is that I was very wrong about how the market would react when he took office.
Quoted from pinlink:That's the way I am feeling right now!
likewise, at least for now, that could change in a week though
Quoted from cottonm4:No worries. The Bear market is over.
https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/stock-market-news-today-032620/index.html
"Stocks log third day of gains, Dow emerges from bear market"
From CNN Business' Anneken Tappe
=================================
Gasoline demand is falling off a cliff
Do they think that saying it makes it true?
Quoted from swampfire:A reasonable investment theme right now is “nobody wants to hold a (bullish) trade through the weekend”.
A few days ago, it was through the day
Quoted from Rondogg:Which do you think we will see first, 29k or 17k?
I'm not the one to ask. I'm a realist bordering on pessimist. That being said, I'm horrible at predicting the market.
Quoted from taylor34:Lol. I've kind of looked at the situation here, and the markets kind of went up because Trump has implied that we'll be back to business in '2 to 3 weeks'. I think A LOT of people believe that. The problem is, there isn't one piece of factual evidence that would back that up, just like in February when we had 15 cases and he said 'we have 15 cases, and soon it will be down to 0 here soon'. You now have other leaders saying that we should just back to work and open up things again in a couple weeks...I don't see how that's going to work either. We're going to have 400,000 cases minimum by mid April...we're just going to open it back up then?
I just don't think people are doing the math. Lots of people/businesses say we're going to be back open soon...I'm like how? Nobody wants to go out right now with 80,000 cases, how about 400,000?
It's not an ignorable problem. We're just making the problem even worse. What I don't know though is how the market will react to it. I really can't believe that it went up that much this week despite all the issues. Company earnings have to be pretty awful for almost every sector other than grocery and some tech, it makes the market look overvalued if this drags on through April, May, and June. But what do I know?
No one cares about the number of cases, only the number of deaths, which is still under the flu!! So...
/s
The Securities and Exchange Commission suspended trading of Zoom Technologies on Thursday, partly because investors are confusing it with Zoom Video, which has seen a surge share price due to COVID-19. It will resume trading April 9. ... The company has not disclosed financial information since 2015, the SEC says.20 hours ago
Thought this might be useful info for a few...
So apparently it just came out on the twitter stream that Boeing isn't going to use federal bailout money. I am guessing they must not have got what they wanted and are now trying to hardball tank the system so they can lay blame. #tantrum
note I have not verified this info - it's circulating my stock channels.
Quoted from Richthofen:THIS IS NOT THE FLU
Unlike the flu, which has built in immunity and a vaccine, no one has immunity to covid19. Everyone gets it. And it’s more contagious than the flu. So it has the capability to overrun our hospitals as everyone gets sick at once. Not counted in the “death toll” is the amount of people who die from other medical issues like accidents, heart attacks, etc because the hospitals are full and overwhelmed or all the doctors are sick.
This is a real problem. In NYC hospitals are going to need refrigerated semi trucks for all the bodies. That’s sobering and sad and shouldn’t happen in America.
I think you missed my point and the /s
Quoted from Richthofen:I mean with TARP banks were forced to take it so the stigma was removed. But even having the money and not using it might be enough. People will lend to Boeing if they know they have a lifeline. Otherwise capital markets would shut them out.
Hadn't thought of that, just seemed like after the demands they had, they were trying to play hardball.
Here we go...
U.S. not bailing out airlines, Boeing not using federal money: Treasury Secretary
Maybe they'll have a separate bill? This doesn't make sense to me...
Quoted from pinballjah:Anyone like a VXX $50/$60 call spread? What time frame would you prefer? Personally I think the market will continue down until the US cases start to improve. We have family in Iowa and it is business as usual there. Everyone is still going to work at their offices and you wouldn't know there was a pandemic going on. I think the other States will be harder hit in the next couple months.
Iowa shut down all non-essentials last night. We aren't stay at home yet though.
Quoted from pinlink:What was all that "not going to be bullish into the weekend" talk?
So far, I've blown it today.
It's a gamble either way at this point.
Quoted from cottonm4:I have not looked at NVDA for years. This looks like a bubble chart.
What lit a fire under it ass?
[quoted image]
They pretty much are the standard in video cards (well boosted by the crypto side). However they are poised to lead for some time.
Quoted from AstonEnthusiast:Took advantage of KPG's reference to STKS - thanks for the tip!
Thoughts on Cheesecake Factory (CAKE)? Fell from $51 to almost a 52 week low of $16. Can't make their April rent, but the odds of failure long term seems low.
Cheesecake Factory and Red Robin are on the predicted 2020-21 chopping block, even before this.
Quoted from loneacer:I'm not foolish enough to predict the market on a day to day basis. That's just flipping a coin. It will likely be higher in a year than it is today. It will definitely be higher in 5 years than it is today, and higher still again in 10 years, etc. It has to be. 401Ks depend on it. IRAs depend on it. Pensions depend on it. Entire states and countries budgets depend on it. To prevent anarchy and societal breakdown, the market must rise over time, and governments will print unlimited money to make that happen.
I think 'has to be' because of 401k's isn't the proper way to look at it...if they print unlimited money, it makes the whole point of saving any money or even using money pointless.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:If the loser liberals don't harass me, I'll post.
They harass, I'm out of here.
If that's your attitude, don't let the door hit you. No excuse for that shit.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Deleted post
I'm not liberal one, and two, you made it political and insulted people. Yea, you're awesome. But good job making it political while trying to say you aren't making it political.
Quoted from pinlink:I suck at this. How is EVERYTHING up right now? Thought we would see another plunge today.
At least I'm not alone...this is the biggest thing I've never been able to wrap my head around. When I have the time to look at actual short term technicals I do okay, but making long term predictions (or in this case short term market predictions) is beyond me. There is no way I'd hold any short term plays over the weekend at this point.
Quoted from DCFAN:I believe the last time I paid less than a dollar was 1998.
I paid 98 cents last spring!!!
Quoted from Brijam:Futures of any kind, in particular oil futures seem an extraordinarily risky bet right now.
I wouldn’t expect Russia or the Saudis to let up until they have broken the backs of US shale oil.
And how many people do you think are going to be willing to jump on a plane or take a cruise once we’re on the other side of this? Once corporate America realizes most of its business can be done virtually, you really think they’re going back to flying people all over the place? Just like all those corporate middle management jobs came back after 2008?
Oil, travel, airlines, cruise lines, those aren’t coming back fast.
Still holding cash. I don’t think we’re near the bottom yet.
This is really weird timing. My company had no issues with remote workers, I've been working remotely for 7 years. Then last year new management decided they didn't like everyone working remotely. They've been planning a massive 'call everyone back into the office' and relocate everyone into specific cities because they want people to be face to face. Due to current events, now everyone is working remotely who possibly can (temporarily). Might seem selfish but I'm hoping this makes them reconsider their plans.
Quoted from Methos:It depends on what type of an employee/job description with regards to working at home. Personally, I hate it and would never do it, nor do I like employees to do it. If I had a sales team, that might be different and probably would want them to work from home, but their results can be measured easily.
If it was a service type industry or project management, for all I know they could just be on Pinside all day.
It definitely isn't for everyone. Some people need the socialization. Some people have too many distractions, etc. For some, work at home means no daycare, so they are dealing with their kids all day. Took awhile to train my wife that I was not her errand boy during the day.
Quoted from Methos:If they are dealing with their kids all day, how can they be productive?
I could never do it personally for various reasons. However, I have found the productivity for the general employee decreases exponentially when they work from home. Again - these are not sales or project manager positions. Plus it seems that the level of education also is an indicator for success.
Yea, I wasn't saying "that's what happens". I was using those as examples of why some people can't/shouldn't do it(although I've seen those examples which is why I know it happens, and they weren't great employees). That being said, I would disagree that a generalization of less productivity happens, but it really would depend on what the work actually is and who's doing it. My job is technical and requires number crunching and abstract thinking, I actually find working in the office to be too much of a distraction.
Quoted from mcluvin:Oh, I do shop there. It's not about class. It's about facts. Their primary customer is poor. Poor people have to work when they are sick. They don't go to the doctor/hospital unless it is serious. They can't stock up, so they make more trips to the DG. They are more inclined to believe it's just the flu or media hype/fake news, so they don't take precautions. What happens to that DG when the staff are all sick? Publix can afford redundancy. DG can't. Or maybe they can? I'm just not so sure they will be unaffected/benefit from this.
This seems like personal bias, as I've seen plenty of rich folks have the same attitude.
Quoted from mcluvin:Well, I am biased against ignorance, but not the poor. Please spend some time amongst the poor folk and then tell me how I am wrong.
I'm surrounded by the poor. I live in a poor area. Just because one isn't well off doesn't make them ignorant.
Quoted from mcluvin:And I never said being poor implied you are ignorant. You just have a much better chance of being so.
Read the forums, plenty of non poor people around here who come off pretty ignorant.
To your point though, there are many people, myself included that are frugal. There are many around that shop at places like DG because it is cheap. As some say, you don't get rich by spending all your money.
Quoted from mcluvin:I never said otherwise.
I guess I'm confused by your 'most likely to get you sick' comment. Again ignorance and 'i'll do what I want' attitude has not been bound by how much money you make or what you do. It's basically been down party lines and who you believe.
Anyway...this is getting off topic.
Quoted from mcluvin:I seem to recall from the last recession, a company declared bankruptcy (GM maybe??) declared non-preferred shares worthless, then issued new shares under the "new" company. Something along those lines anyway. I'd sure be worried about that sort of thing right now in hard-hit industries.
This is part of the reason I don't really believe in what people were saying about just buying down as it fell. We don't really know who the losers are going to be when this is all over.
Quoted from DBLM:Let's have a little fun today. It is 9 AM and the DOW is projected to open down. We know that there tends to be a selloff due to people not wanting to hold over the weekend. What are your predictions for the Dow closing today? I predict the DOW will close down 425. What are your predictions?
I am not looking close enough to know the underlying reasons for it being up yesterday. My thought is the longer this is drawn out the lower it will go
except, as people start to expect this as the new normal, maybe they'll just put money in anyway....I've never understood the emotional thought process to stocks.
Quoted from Methos:I disagree. Just because he doesn't have a snowflake mentality doesn't make it cruel in nature. He's just a bit more positive and it's always fun to read.
Sure if needlessly insulting those you disagree with every other post is 'positive and fun to read' for you...
Quoted from Methos:If you're too sensitive, just put him on ignore.
Nope, I'll just continue to call him on his bs. Oh that's right, he put me on ignore. Can't handle truth. Or maybe he's just too sensitive.
On topic, I believe this tweet that went out today is the reason for the push over 23k a few hours ago. Strange. Feels like manipulation more than positivity.
"Once we OPEN UP OUR GREAT COUNTRY, and it will be sooner rather than later, the horror of the Invisible Enemy, except for those that sadly lost a family member or friend, must be quickly forgotten. Our Economy will BOOM, perhaps like never before!!!"
Posted in #twitter-stream | Today at 10:02 AM
And I'm simply pointing out a possible reason for the uptick. Something I'm always trying to follow and understand the reasons for the movements of the market.
Quoted from Methos:Maybe because Sanders ceased his campaign?
That could be as well.
Quoted from usandthem:His campaign has been toast for longer than we've been on a "stay at home" order, so I find it hard to believe that Sanders dropping out was a factor.
KPG- Has anything changed from your 23,700 resistance level? Or does that appear ready to fall? Thanks.
I was trying to be open minded as I don't truly know, but yes, I agree, I didn't think he was still relevant in the race.
Quoted from swampfire:Dumb retail investor question: the Fed has opened a vein, and the national debt was already over 100% of GDP when this started. How is this not game over?
Too political of an answer.
Honestly, in this age, why be concerned about the national debt? Clearly, it means almost nothing in the grand scheme of things at this point. It's used as a threat to create fear, but no one has an issue with it going up if it's convenient. Seems to be an outdated issue, or at the very least, not as important as it once was.
I don't have a problem with being a glass half full type, but just because you say it and capitalize FACT doesn't make you right. Just like you weren't right when it fell, and continued to fall while telling everyone they were 'dummies' for believing the fake news and the 'numbers don't lie'. You're pumping for the sake of pumping (mostly for yourself) and apparently think trying to sell others on that notion will somehow help make it true. I get this impression you are really hurting stock wise and that's unfortunate (and hopefully not true). I know people who are making out like bandits right now, but they aren't playing long term.
I think anyone claiming to know for a FACT whats going to happen at this point is kidding themselves. You got a 50/50 chance of it happening.
I think we all agree the market will go up and up....at SOME point. Trying to figure out when is another matter. That being said, maybe if we don't go much lower than what we already did, buying in small now isn't such a bad idea. I do agree with averaging down, but the market has yet to get back to where I sold everything that was up. I guess it all depends on where you are sitting now. For me, it makes more sense to wait since companies are cutting dividends.
The things that I am still holding, I was already down on anyway, so held them to average down. Well and 401k..I didn't re-balance any of it so crossing fingers that continuing to pour money into that like normal will work out.
Quoted from thedarkknight77:Once again the government is playing market god. Iceman is so right, never fight the Fed! How many billionaire and millionaire insiders knew this was coming, which explains the irrational move up for the last 5 trading days. This is what you call buying an election with tax payer money and the average American is too stupid to understand it. We will have low interest rates for eternity and a 30 Trillion dollar debt load. We are setting up the greatest bubble in history.........Damn I hate all politicians both the Democrats and Republicans. What ever happened to fiscal responsibility.
Claiming bankruptcy is considered 'genius'. That's what happened.
Quoted from Concretehardt:What I can’t wrap my head around is that we are literally in a National Emergency but it feels like the markets sold off harder at the begging of 2019.. still trying to figure out what makes this shit tick.. I am guessing it is unknowable.
I will say I can't see all the people out of work dumping more money into the market right now...so what's left?
Quoted from kpg:All of this talk is such a contrarian indicator to me. Everyone here is thinking its going to keep going up forever. Its crazy how multiple green days can make people so bullish.
You're referring to the 'if everyone says things are great, get out?' 'if everyone says the sky is falling, get in?'
I'm not clear on which of these we are....seems pretty split...
Oil...So uh..hooray for price fixing? smh... I know there's lots of oil lovers out there, but this is bull.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/opec-agrees-deep-oil-output-151440841.html
Quoted from loneacer:Best week for the DOW in 82 years (and it was only a 4 day week).
That's what I was just looking at, the movement this week (and even last) is massive....
Quoted from Mike_J:I wonder if the 38 analysts will be right or wrong -[quoted image]
I mean....none of those are bad...apple would have to screw up pretty badly to go down very much. Their followers are as blindly dedicated as the tesla crowd.
Quoted from swampfire:Right, but most of them weren’t able to put money into the market when they WERE working.
So you think the only people laid off now are minimum wage workers?
One of the nice things about where I live, none of those things is usually an issue. There's something about going to the theater that is still better than watching it at home - even on large tv's - but I'm picky about what I'll go drop that kind of money on, and most just aren't worth it.
I'm going to continue to sit this out. This is what I predict is going to happen which hasn't changed from the beginning. People are tired of sitting at home, many people seeing the 'less deaths' as a 'see I told you so' instead of the real reason, and so those in power are going to open things up again. Then, new breakouts are going to occur and people will either ignore it until the numbers are big and it is too late, or panic right away. Either is bad, and the market will panic and drop like a rock with the anticipation of additional deaths and another imminent lockdown.
The market is overpriced, propped and still fake. I can't imagine why anyone thinks the market is supposed to be at 30k. Unfortunately, I realize none of this means anything because the people throwing money into the market are insane. I won't regret if it goes up or down. It is what it is. Can't lose if you don't play.
Quoted from kpg:You will be right in the end.
Be patient.
This pig will come back down.
I don't want to be right, and hopefully I'm not.
Is part of the 'positive' sentiment in the market because stockholders tend to like layoffs? I've always found this whole thing counterproductive because in almost all cases if you're cutting workers, you aren't doing very well, but yet stockholders love it.
Quoted from usandthem:And the sad reality is that workers who make less than 50k a year like layoffs right now too. They get a raise to stay at home. Employers don’t have to be motivated to call back employees and employees don’t really want employers to be motivated to do so.
This doesn't bug me at all. Why should only the big boys get perks? In the end, those little guys are going to be paying it back in taxes, while the big boys avoid them (aside from paying back interest free). We're all going to be paying for this long past when we die anyway. Ultimately, this will help allow for us to get past this rather than try to rush it.
Quoted from Zablon:This doesn't bug me at all. Why should only the big boys get perks? In the end, those little guys are going to be paying it back in taxes, while the big boys avoid them (aside from paying back interest free). We're all going to be paying for this long past when we die anyway. Ultimately, this will help allow for us to get past this rather than try to rush it.
To the downvoters, explain why you disagree. You don't like socialism when it's for the poor, only the rich deserve bailouts? You think they need all that money? "WE" pay for it, not them. This is temporary for the little guys, the big boys get all sorts of perks all the time.
In additional news, stimulus funding for small businesses is already out of money. Anyone get in on that? I'm betting we don't see any sort of list that shows where that money went.
Also, why exactly are retired people on SS getting stimulus checks? They aren't out any more money than usual, and they have to pay it back at the end of the year anyway. Doesn't make sense to me.
Quoted from Tranquilize:I think the potential for genuine inflation is going to be low as it is all relative. The entire world has the same problem. Not to mention the greenback is still propped by it being the international business currency. If Russia, China and friends ever abandonded the dollar, we might see the inflation that should appear. When the banks stole that trillion in 2008, it didn't affect anything. Amazing.
I'm a total newb to stocks, but I've been reading a lot of articles etc., and I think reading the market right now will only be possible by assessing human behaviour. Of course, company fundamentals are still important, but how are people going to be behaving in the near and distant future?
My best guess is that people will want life to go back to normal asap. This is why the market is rebounding without a resolution to covid. We still have a while to endure this, but most businesses will survive, and society will function as it always did. No one is going to care about changing behaviour for the environment etc etc. That's horseshit. People will want to take their yearly to Mexico, even if they can't afford it. Airlines are a safe long term investment for sure.
I've been interested in Cineplex in Canada, the primary owner of movie theatres. Thier stock has been dropping over the years due to home viewing, but their financials are good and the stock was doing well within its environment. Their drop has not seen a significant recovery yet. My logic is based on who is going to be released into the public first. Who has the least risk? Kids under 25. What do these kids do? They go to movies. We're going to see a spike in this industry like never before. In my best guess, it would be anywhere from August to December. I'm waiting for the second drop to get in, if that second drop ever comes.
Anyone want to set my rookie head straight?
I'm no expert of course, but I don't see movies recovering at any rate compared to other entertainment. They were bad before this, they'll continue to be bad and get worse going forward unless something drastic changes.
Quoted from poppapin:Dude seriously? People on SS are low income that's why. The criteria is anyone making less than 75K I believe.
It was a legit question. I had forgot about the 'less than' number. My mother in law got one and was asking why she got one. She said she wasn't expecting to get one because she's not unemployed and not making less than she already was budgeted. She's spending less because she's not going anywhere, etc etc. Sure, they are low income, but they aren't 'out' any more money than normal, compared to people being laid off. On top of that, they have to pay it back anyway at the end of the year. I'm sure people can use it, don't get me wrong. And before this gets modded as 'off topic' again this DOES relate to the market as we're talking things that manipulate the market here which is exactly what this thing is about.
Quoted from DCFAN:Sleazy, pump and dump, but this time even worse because the rumor caused a lot of possibly false hope.
Hopefully the report/rumor that the drug is working is true. The premarket trading sure seems to still be reacting positively.
I think the trading being up today is directly about the 3 phase to open.
Quoted from cottonm4:I wanted to address Zablon on this but he got moderated. Some people who are on SS are low income and hurting. Some who are on SS are quite well off. If you were an airline pilot making big wages you will get a big SS check every month. Plus your pilot's pension. Plus you probably banked a lot of money while working.
If you were some poor sap working at Walmart for minimum wage, your SS check will not feed a dog and cat for one month. I feel for those people.
I am low income but made good wages. I get a decent SS check and some pension money. I don't need the $1200.00. My income is such that I have not had to pay any taxes since I retired in 2014. I can assure you that an untaxed income can go a long way. But I also live cheap with no debts and a mortgage free house. And while I live cheap I really am living pretty fat. I am proud of the pin collection I have assembled. I'm not pinching pennies.
My GF is the same way. She retired last year. Since she did pay taxes the year before, she got her check yesterday. Mine will be coming in the mail.
But someone who worked low wage retail and is still paying rent can sure use that check.That is not correct. The check is not taxable and does not have to be paid back. It is "free" govt. money. And you are right. I don't have the gas and car maintenance expenses. My car insurance is cheaper.
How does this relate to stocks? I have some play money and I am going to start playing again.
I'll have to look it up again, but my understanding of these stimulus checks is they are just advances on next years taxes, not freebies. Maybe that changed, or I am just wrong in general, but I know at one point I had read that in the proposed stimulus docs.
As for how it relates to stocks, it is simply 'stimulus checks' which is directly to stimulate the economy and thus the markets.
So, basically oil prices are rigged, along with all the BS we are fed yearly about 'quantity'. The world really needs to get away from dependence on oil money. They make record profits, how is it they can't go a month or two on lower demand? They don't need to be pumping constantly, they have no problems shuttering production when it's convenient for them. Sorry, having trouble feeling any empathy for these billionaires and how they run their companies.
So while everyone is selling off on the last day I bought some small positions in NLY, NET, AI and FVRR
I have to say that buying anything where we currently are feels very painful and wrong. But...that being said, I said the same thing when we were at 27k...so...yolo.
With the governments trying to step in and stop the main reasons for the bitcoin bullishness at every turn, I still don't understand why anyone would be routing for the currency rather than the tech behind it. All it is is speculation, and you can use the 'dollar has nothing backing it either' argument, except it has history behind it. I can't imagine anyone getting into it at 25k+ and thinking it's going to go to 100k on nothing other than hopes and dreams. (but...again, what do I know).
Quoted from athenspin:People want a way to keep the $ they earn from melting like an ice cube.
I understand everything you are saying, but what makes BC any different from any other thing you throw money at? To my knowledge there is nothing preventing it from going to 0 for any number of reasons. If you can tax it, you can track it. Going thru an exchange isn't practical at this point. It is not the safe haven people want it to be. I am not trying to be a nay sayer. I wish I'd have bought some when it was much lower or even mined it back in the early days when I didn't take it seriously. I just don't see where it fits in the grand scheme of things. The dollar is already digital. Any money made 'digitally' is susceptible to corruption and hacking or flat out disappearing. I guess when FDIC starts covering it, then maybe I'll see the safety nets. No one can even explain why it spikes or drops with any actual credibility or where those millions of dollars that disappear go. It's just a guessing game.
Quoted from iceman44:Well, as long as Fed policy stays like it is, with an all in approach, and fiscal policy will still be a positive factor for markets, I’d use it sparingly
Tax policy is now the third leg of GDP growth that is uncertain
Divided government? Then S&P goes to 4200-4500 ish this year
And parts of “the market” will do much better!
Cramer says “there is always a bull market somewhere”.
Does the fed even have anything it can do at this point? Feels like the outgoing administration tapped that faucet dry.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:What other altcoins have you dabbled in? I’m not a fan of most of them, but always interested to hear what people also find success in.
I hear XRP is a bargain these days! 
Quoted from nwpinball:The Market liked the election results.
Spoke too soon, back almost to where it was yesterday....for reasons we can't discuss, but WOW. It involves armed standoffs.
Quoted from athenspin:Agreed, I’d be scared to death to buy it on something like Robinhood etc. I used B-More Pinballs coinbase referral link and am very happy with the platform.
Why would you be more scared to buy it on Robinhood? While you don't own a wallet, millions in money hasn't been known to mysteriously disappear there like it has on Coinbase multiple times as well as it doesn't suffer (mostly) from all the slowness and outages.
Serious question.
Quoted from athenspin:hackers are paying premiums for people’s robinhood info because it’s one of the easiest platforms to hack and the customer service is horrible without even a number to call if you’ve been hacked.
Interesting. Yeah was just reading about it. I've had a RH account for 3 years and haven't had issues, but to be fair any money is insured and BC is not - anywhere. Back when BTC was $3000 or so I tried to set up a coinbase account and never was successful so I just said to hell with it. It was about that time when the exchanges had outages, etc and all the coin came up missing. I walked away from it at that time.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:PLUG is on fire. Up over 200% in less than 60 days. Those are Tesla numbers. Not bad but sadly I only bought 100 shares. Sell or hold? The company has never made a profit. Maybe this is their time. Only took 24 years to get there. Thoughts?
always my dilemma. I always choose wrong. Sell and watch it rocket, or hold and watch it drop back down. Trailing stops never help because it always touches them, sells, then goes right back up.....but...if you are really thinking it sell whatever covers your cost, and trailing stop the rest.
I agree with Ice on this. I work in the receiving end of this technology. I haven't dove into the details of either company, but the need is indeed going to grow. Especially as the use of digital coin continues to grow. With the recent hack discovery as well it is in the spotlight right now. Industry wise, most if not all are behind the curve on security.
Quoted from KornFreak28:For those of you on robinhood, Do you have any idea why they won’t let us buy crypto’s with new deposits until “the money clears” in 3 days? That wasn’t the case last week. Seems like a great time to buy some Bitcoin
I would assume it is because of the volatility of BTC. Unless you pay for gold, even regular stock purchase instant deposit is limited to 1k. They want to make sure you have the money before you get to lose it.
Bought some PSTH CRWD on the dip.
Thought about putting in some BTC, but...the variance is crazy. Can't tell if it is going up or down.
I still fail to see how ROKU is so high.
I say this as an early ROKU adopter and champion of the company. That is..until they introduced ads. Who watches ads on a ROKU?? I don't get it? The ROKU channel itself is horrible - and yes, it has tons of ads.
Who is watching the ads? Most have to be using Netflix or Hulu or Amazon etc. I just don't see where ad money is doing enough to justify the stock price. Aside from that one channel, everything else is self contained.
Oh look, Ice is on another of his I'm better than you, daddy didn't respect me enough, insult anyone who questions him and add a emoji to make it look like he's joking kicks again. If you aren't familiar with these tactics, stick around, it happens...often.
Look, he gives some good advice, but this is also the guy who said COVID was a hoax and the market would ignore it. It did not, and he freaked out. Now he's acting like it was a 'plan'. It's easy to look back and be like 'look how smart I was' and just brush the rest under the carpet. Point is, he's right sometimes, and sometimes he's wrong. Just like everyone else.
There was zero reason for him to post the stuff he posted, and it came off like another 'look at me' boast all over someones recommendation he disagreed with. Real mature.
I'm pretty sure I know at least part of the issue just by reading and it started around Nov 3.
but I thought it was fairly normal around here at least until the disagreement over PSTH. This isn't the first time they've taken a hiatus, I'm sure they will cool down and be back. Honestly don't know why ego has to play any part in this, but the people who do this the most (and probably best) also tend to be attached emotionally to the ups and downs.
But then again, half this place can't even remain civil talking about pinball.
Quoted from Zablon:I'm pretty sure I know at least part of the issue just by reading and it started around Nov 3.
but I thought it was fairly normal around here at least until the disagreement over PSTH. This isn't the first time they've taken a hiatus, I'm sure they will cool down and be back. Honestly don't know why ego has to play any part in this, but the people who do this the most (and probably best) also tend to be attached emotionally to the ups and downs.
But then again, half this place can't even remain civil talking about pinball.
That being said CRWD is doing great as is FVRR.
Depends. Feds don't have many options at this point, and I doubt Biden is going to put as much pressure on them as Trump did.
Another thing I've been curious is the tech stocks reacting to the riots. Lots of people clamoring free speech, which this is not about, but it is impacting their stocks and likely to play into things for much of 2021 at least. So the question is, do we think long term it will matter? Combined with the all time highs it's hard to tell. I have a feeling this is just another blip that will go away when the next 'omg' thing happens elsewhere.
Quoted from DBLM:This thread can make anybody feel poor, regardless of your portfolio.
Hell this forum can make you feel poor, especially when you start looking at the gameroom thread.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Nah - it’s on you. I don’t give effort to following up vague and baseless but damaging comments which seem aimed at contributing to division. If you have something to say that you can back up with facts, say it. I don’t think you’ll get sanctioned for stating facts in the thread. (Vs Political opinions which will.) It’s often not possible to discuss economics without factual analysis of government policy.
Good call. The next sentence no matter what is presented is 'it's biased'.
Quoted from iceman44:IF you aren't willing to BUY AGAIN on a dip in any stock, don't buy it in the first place.
So, what do people consider dips? I tend to buy on down days of 5% or more as day to day dips (unless a stock is tanking) are generally less than 1%.
I also tend to buy when the MACD is at the bottom heading up on all 3 Daily, Hourly, 5min. I have no idea if that is a good strategy as I am sure I miss many opportunities, but it's worked well for me to reduce impulsive buying and buying while a stock is heading down.
I bought some FVRR a few weeks ago and it has been VERY good. Sadly, I didn't buy alot of it, and haven't added to it as it hasn't dipped at all.
PINS on the other hand, seems to have topped out for now. It's went sideways or lower since I've bought it.
Quoted from investingdad:My advice is to max your savings, invest in two or three index funds that gives you a good balance of risk (equity and bond holdings) based on age, max your 401k for company match, max your IRA, and do that for the next 25 years. Don't sell, buy monthly regardless of what markets are doing.
Don't play with individual stocks.
Aim for saving 25% of your gross salary and work to make that happen. Marry somebody with similar ideals.
It's how we built a 7 figure portfolio in 16 years and compounded it quickly over the next ten. It's simple, it's boring, it's not what this thread is about. It's not complicated.
If you want to gamble, by all means, ignore my advice.
It's how I wish I'd have done it.
Quoted from Lamberger:Like I mentioned before, everyone seams to be out with biden. I dumped 90%
It wasn't that bad, and besides right now, there's isn't jack else to put money right now.
Quoted from Lamberger:Just going by what he said during the debates.
He's on board with green, but he's by no mean anti oil.
Quoted from Lamberger:Plus Millions planning to head to the U.S from the south, hoping to get in on the Green card, handouts from Biden. Crazy times ahead... Might be best to just sit on cash in high savings... Gamble 10% on stocks. Wait and see game.
Do you not look at history? Short term dip while weak hands adjust, then gains long term. The stimulus stuff has already been priced in, and since it seems it won't be everything people want, things are going to dip/sideways for awhile (or maybe it won't dip much at all...). It will be interesting to see what the overpriced 2020 shares do though. In terms of handouts, that isn't going to hurt the market, that's more demand - and unless taxes are drastically increased, it isn't going to impact business in a negative way.
Also, knock it off with that shit. I've been kicked from this thread for less.
Quoted from Lamberger:Knock what off? reading the news and adjusting my investments from it?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/massive-migrant-caravan-honduras-busts-guatemala-border-en-route-us-video/
History, after that last pandemic..strong hands hung on then the market had the biggest crash in history, then depression.
The pandemic is indeed a wild card, but your post was nothing about that.
Quoted from phil-lee:No secret I went to cash late last year and now only invest in tangible assets that can be held. When the Market returns to 19K I may get back in. Not a day trader either but admire those who are successful at it. There is a reason Gates is the largest holder of Farmland in US, he is rich and prefers tangible to speculative.
If the market gets back to 19k we'll have more than riots on the capitol.
Quoted from Trogdor:Why? What percent of the pop. even owns a stock? The ones that do will just cry quietly in their expensive scotch. We all know this is a bubble. Look out- Feb.3 is 384th anniversary of the Tulip collapse.
Anybody concerned about the actual increase in consumer spending this holiday season? Economy went off a world wide cliff, yet people spent more money then similar periods last previous years? Stimulus sure, but this much? And if someone can explain how LYV is at an all time high with no concerts in over a year, appreciated.
If the market crashes that hard - which is harder than the COVID crash - there's going to be a lot (more) of unemployed people.
Secondly, bubbles, speaking of bubbles, the housing market is a huge one. I'm looking at house prices saying I would never pay what people are asking right now, no matter how low the interest rates are. It's insanity. Then you look at the prices of everything, cars, pinball, etc, and they are just increasing at astronomical rates. I don't see it being sustainable either, but here we are 10 years later, and everything is going up way faster than wages.
EDIT: Guess you better sell all your stocks that do business or buy parts from China, or you're just another hypocrite. Money's money right? Greed has no boundaries.
Also, just checked mine, been busy today, and my portfolio is up over 2% so far today. Part of it helps that Ford is on a nice run up.
Quoted from PinJim:I hold FUN, PPL and ABBV. ABBV has been my only real winner for the past few years. Would you bail on FUN and PPL? PPL has a decent dividend but doesn’t seem to be going anywhere...
Nothing wrong with holding dividend payers. Even if they aren't going anywhere, you are making money. Sure they seem behind due to the extreme growth in 2020, but under normal circumstances, they are going to be your retirement.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Ice:
What is your opinion on precious metals in the current investment environment (the metal stocks, mining stocks and direct metal holdings). Thanks.
Live dangerously, put it all on NUGT and let it riiiiiiidddee.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Still money to be made. Government will try to regulate bitcoin but it’s impossible. If you’re smart you’ll learn how to interact directly on the chain without these exchanges that love giving the government all your information.
This is something I've been wondering about. It's supposed to be anonymous, untraceable blah blah, yet the exchanges have all that info and can be taxed when you convert. Are you saying there are other ways to acquire it without mining or being paid in it? Seems that regardless, if you try to cash out to normal currency you are tracked.
Quoted from jonesjb:That’s what I think, the industry is hurt right now, and has opportunity to grow and flourish. I mean when the pandemic is over, I think people will miss the escapism of going to the movies and revisit... it’s also accessible and economical night out. I think after Covid, people are going to want to spend their money on experiences. Sure the world is going digital with streaming, but people will want to get out of the house. I also think maybe key cruise ship companies fit this criteria. It’s more of a case that I think lots of other stocks are overpriced, the value is in companies like this.
The industry at least in the AMC markets was dying already long before covid. Very few movies make the kind of money they want them to make. The world is moving to streaming, and as with all past changes in the market, the entertainment industry is stuck decades behind kicking and screaming.
That is some crazy shite. I will say, I don't have a problem with it. I've never been fond of shorting even being a thing. The market is supposed to be about helping the economy and business, not gambling, but it is more gambling than anything, especially the 'betting against' being legal.
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:Not you but a lot of folks spend time following the short squeezing even though they are not doing anything with them. Those are interesting, no doubt, but FWIW some good long term hold options are pulling back and it may be a wise to keep an eye on their pull backs to possibly add for the long run, PINS SE CRWD FVRR MELI NET come to mind.
I struggle with this. PINS has went sideways for a month, FVRR just lost 35% in the last week - which is why I hate holding non div paying stocks long term. It just gave back every bit + what I was up on it. NET is finally making a little movement. But for the most part the ups and downs are way too volatile. They are moving up and down 4-5% a daily. AI is finally making moves, but its down 5% today as well.
I hate days like yesterday where it opens high, immediately drops huge, then gradually climbs back up to even or just under even at close. You have to literally be watching the market every day all day it feels like. I don't have that kind of time these days.
Quoted from JodyG:Elon tweeted about GME, and it shot up 30% immediately.
Another example of the market being broken. He did the same with another company earlier today.
Quoted from Friengineer:Market isn't broken. Supply and demand is the name of the game. Shorting stocks is what is broken. WSB proves this.
Also I'll be watching the fed closely this year. Do they raise rates to kill liquidity in the markets? Every stimulus check for WSB is going into the market.
I'm referring to someone sending out a tweet that rockets or tanks a stock just 'because'.
Quoted from iceman44:Motley Fool IPO trailblazer Jan rankings fwiw
Highest Conviction "the companies we believe have the best chance for 4x in 10 yrs"
I know, you guys think in terms of days. Lol
[quoted image][quoted image]
Well I own a lot of those, so let's hope they are right!
Congrats to those who played those. I avoided them as I don't like to hold those kind of plays overnight and haven't had enough time to monitor them during the days. I used to do quite a bit of this a few years ago when I had more time.
These seem to be a bit different than most though. They don't usually last this long.
Quoted from jonesjb:Just a hypothesis I'm sharing to see what others think... If the market is overbought, and we're trying to time if/when a drop happens, mid-March stands out with it being a year since COVID started. People who bought may have bought when the 2020 drop happened may be waiting for the 12 months to sell for the tax advantages. Does this seem reasonable?
I think someone else (KPG or Ice?) brought this up a few weeks ago and warned to expect a possible drop then.
Quoted from jwilson:WSB is long on BB. AMC and NOK are just a distraction from the botnets by the hedge funds and institutional owners to get them to take their eyes off GME because now they've bought in billions on shorts to the tune of 136% of available stocks.
So, if the "retards" of WSB don't sell their meagre holdings, which is actually several million shares, they might be totally fucked. The GME squeeze has them all frothed up at screwing the hedges for a change and that's some powerful juju among the disenfranchised millennial reddit crew.
Yeah, hence my 'not holding these overnight'. Get out while the profits are good. Yeah, it might go another 100% but you can just buy back in the next day. Don't get greedy.
I decided to throw in a small bit on AMC at 17.40...and no idea even now if it went through or not and can't cancel it. Isn't modern tech wonderful!
EDIT: Bastards filled the order on the way down. SMH...I tried to cancel it 8 different times.
No, it's the CYA message. They also sent out emails for 'educational' purposes.
As long as you didn't buy them on margin, you have nothing to worry about....
Of course, tomorrow morning when it is hammered again you may not be able to sell...
Quoted from delt31:Went to sleep AMC around 14. Wake up around 20. Nice.
Hold baby hold
16 is around 20??? That's some stretchy math.
Quoted from loneacer:You all might be right about RH not allowing buying:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/you-can-not-purchase-additional-shares-robinhood-reportedly-removed-shuts-down-buying
now THIS should be illegal. Are they going to refund me the shares they didn't cancel the order on? We know the answer to that.
More will move off RH after this.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:How am I always late to these parties?
It went about as I expected. I went against my rules, and now I'm out a bit of cash because of it.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:These days we (gov't and others) are way to into trying to protect people from themselves. If people want to risk their $$ on these stocks, no reason RH and others should restrict access. Yes, in the end, some people will get their ass handed to them, but that is how you learn.
This isn't about protecting 'us'. This is about protecting the rich.
If one of 'us' were in the position they are in, they'd say 'boohoo' you should learn to invest. See, those guys get bailouts. We don't. I wasn't in this, but I completely understand the reasoning behind it.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:I'm with you. Even if I lose the $3k I have tied up in GME and AMC, it's worth it to shine a light on this stuff. I had no idea it was so corrupted. Makes me scared for my 401K.
It won't matter. The government, the banks, the SEC are not on the little guys side. This will last a few weeks, RH will lose a few million subs, and everything will go back to how it was because a bunch of little guys lose money, and nothing will change ultimately.
Quoted from DBLM:I just unwound about half of my position on AMC. With the platforms being shut down the thesis has changed. Everybody will need to make their own decisions.
If no one but the shorts can buy them..lol...this will be interesting.
Quoted from jorge5240:I am just going to hold AMC and NOk long term. I don’t have much invested.
Let’s see what happen.
Same here. Granted, I got in way too high, so I doubt it ever breaks even, but I only bought 25 shares just for fun.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:No apologies needed. It was money I was gambling with and if the casino hadn't changed the rules in the middle, I would have probably made a few bucks.
It's really disgusting to sit here and take it in the ___ and not be able to do anything about it. The people doing this and lining their pockets will most likely get a free pass.
If anything feels like there should be a lawsuit, it is indeed this. However, I don't think it will go anywhere. Too many big players with big money crying foul.
Quoted from DBLM:On CNBC right now a state from Robinhood and Interactive brokers about restricting stocks and changing margin requirements. In some cases, the system needs guardrails but they are changing them inflight, not at the beginning or end of a day. Complete shit.
I use a full service broker and do pay for that. I have always eyed the "free" traders with skepticism. That skepticism increases after today.
I can understand margin limits, but to completely remove the ability of someone to average down, or people from buying is basically setting your cilents up for failure. It isn't up to you to decide for them if it is a safe trade or not. In that case, the precedent should be you cover every loss I ever have because 'protecting me for my own good'.
Quoted from DBLM:That is the the thing that sticks in my craw. The did not do it before close or after; they did it right in the middle to disrupt things. That is what is fucked.
I wound up doing ok with the trade and it was a small part of my portfolio. I’m a big boy and this goes with the territory. What pisses me off is that it crushed people that this was their first time investing or that they are new. This turns people off to the market an destabilizes faith in the markets.
Let’s be clear: GME, AMC, BB, NOK, and all are not sound companies. We are all gambling on these types of things. We should know the risks when we hit the buy or sell button. But changing the rules mid flight is wrong.
I think those that think the SEC are going to do anything about it are wrong. The SEC was already making suggestions that 'these' people were corrupt and this was illegal manipulation. The question is whether or not these people are going to continue to fight for what is right, or attention span away from it to something else in a week. If they don't stick to it, nothing is going to change.
The reality is, until media stepped in and hedge funds started complaining and this went mainstream, the people involved DID know that these companies were trash, they knew what they were buying. Even after it went mainstream, I think most did as well.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Not trying to open up a political discussion here, but want to show that the hand of government is likely going to come down hard here on somebody. When Cruz, AOC, Tilab and Shapiro are agreeing with and retweeting each other, you know the hand of God is about to be unleashed.
[quoted image]
Yeah, I mentioned this...but didn't want to..um...get too much into that discussion lol. It's crazy.
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Kellogg, IA