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Stern, 2001Quoted from JodyG:Social Security has been raided over and over again, to the point that it is currently only funded to 2035. There will be something like a 40% reduction in benefits starting in 2035.
And yet when private enterprise does this it is an illegal pyramid scheme?
Quoted from Methos:It's sad. Trump is just pushing this mass spending to prop up his polls and increase his chance of re-election. And you're right, we'll be long gone but our kids and their kids will suffer because of these short sighted decisions. I guess if you don't have kids, you might not care as much, but for those of us that do, it's depressing.
Politics aside - and not stating an opinion on what he is doing .....
He is in a no-win situation with people that do not like him. There is nothing he can do to make his haters happy.
If he was not pushing the spending, they would be saying "people and businesses are hurting and he is not doing enough"
Quoted from desertT1:Picked up 100 of ABR today. Can get some more if it drops more but wanted to get that first 100. Expecting to get 30-60 more in the next few weeks.
Only thing that worries me about that stock is: with the 08/09 crash they cut their dividend which kills a stock with a high dividend
I understand it's a different situation, and the 08/09 crisis directly effected them ... but still
thoughts?
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Politics aside - and not stating an opinion on what he is doing .....
He is in a no-win situation with people that do not like him. There is nothing he can do to make his haters happy.
If he was not pushing the spending, they would be saying "people and businesses are hurting and he is not doing enough"
They will say it anyway.
Quoted from Methos:They will say it anyway.
no need to bellyache on his behalf, he's got you more than covered.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Only thing that worries me about that stock is: with the 08/09 crash they cut their dividend which kills a stock with a high dividend
I understand it's a different situation, and the 08/09 crisis directly effected them ... but still
thoughts?
I don’t think real estate will be affected very much with the current events. It might, but not like 08. If/when this moves back to the neighborhood it was in just a few weeks ago the yield for these early shares for me will be pretty sweet. Plan to just use those to buy more shares.
Quoted from JodyG:Social Security has been raided over and over again, to the point that it is currently only funded to 2035. There will be something like a 40% reduction in benefits starting in 2035. Conversely, railroad retirement hasn't been touched, and has funds in it to cover railroad retirees to the year 2095. Pretty sad.
You are incorrect. All Social Security moneys are invested (earning interest). I don't know why people think that Social Security has been raided this FALSE.
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html
-----
By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds.
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Now that is not to say that Social Security as we know it won't run out of invested assets in 2035 (or whenever) but that has to do with paying out more money every year as more people live longer and as the payments grow larger (because people make more money today than they did 40 years ago etc..) so at some point the Social Security trust will be exhausted from paying out money (not from being raided). At that time SS will be payed solely from tax collections and might have to be cut 30% (or whatever) but SS taxes have been raised before and probably will be raised in the future to limit the amount that cut will need to be.
Social Security is taxed at 6.2% from both employee and employer it used to be 2% tax (1% from each) so if the tax rate has been raises many times in the past it will like be raised again before the trues runs out of money. Also the amount subject to tax is raised all the time and can be in the future.
SS Historical Rates_Page_1 (resized).jpg
social-security-tax-rate-chart1 (resized).jpg
image (resized).png
It looks like people are going to get checks, which is a good thing. I have no idea if it will be for everybody or limited to certain income levels, but regardless, I appreciate the activity. Living in MD, we seem to be moving faster in preventive actions compared to some states. I think we are relatively soon to be under shelter in place protocols. If/when that happens, hourly employees are going to be hurting pretty quickly, if not already. This money could really help them out.
Quoted from cait001:I can't remember who said they were looking at an 18k DJI but I apologize if I ever doubted you.
Me a couple times. I protected my retirement account in late August 2019. I plan to put it back into the S&P fund somewhere between DOW 11000 and 17000.
Quoted from DCFAN:Me a couple times. I protected my retirement account in late August 2019. I plan to put it back into the S&P fund somewhere between DOW 11000 and 17000.
Yeah I think you were one of the earlier ones saying this is going to be a lot worse than people think. Good you have money on the side to put in. From the dates you pulled out money you missed an up market during the back half of 2019 since you pulled out in August of that year. So you made a good call but didn’t time it perfectly which is so so hard to do.
I respect you and others for sharing your prediction and actually putting your money where your mouth was on it. So thanks for your input and hope you put money back in at a good time.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Politics aside - and not stating an opinion on what he is doing .....
He is in a no-win situation with people that do not like him. There is nothing he can do to make his haters happy.
If he was not pushing the spending, they would be saying "people and businesses are hurting and he is not doing enough"
In some ways he is no different that any other leader we have had. Some of what he has done, I like. Some of what he has done I do not like.
But while he has been getting 2nd guessed by many, one thing you do not want is a leader running around like his hair is on fire. Your leader has to project the positive when there is little positive to project. Basically, they have to be able to sell snowballs to Eskimos. When your leader stands up and says Abandon Ship, it is game over. Even when it is bullshit, the leader has to stand up and sell bullshit. And try to make you believe bullshit is the truth. 20 years ago, we had a leader who said the country was going into recession---and we went into recession, before 9-11 changed everything.
The gravity of this virus situation is something that should not have been BS'ed but I am willing to give benefit of the doubt. The rules are being made up as we go along.
Quoted from loneacer:I sold a SPY $220 put expiring Friday. If the market drops another 12 percent this week, you can blame me.
I won't blame you. But I might pray for you 
Hitting the nail on the head.
" The problem, as economist Larry Summers eloquently put it, is that "economic time has been stopped, but financial time has not been stopped." In other words, if we all cocoon for two months, we might physically survive, and the infrastructure of the modern world would be waiting for us upon our re-emergence, but in the meantime the bills pile up. The rent's due. The mortgage is due. Or the landlord's mortgage is due. The credit card bill is due. Taxes are due. For a business, paychecks must go out. Suppliers must be paid.
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So we don't need economic stimulus right now. We don't need people out shopping or building new infrastructure or building new homes. Every one of those things involves people congregating and risks spreading the virus.
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What we need is cash to keep people from going bankrupt or evicted. Cash to keep the lights on. Cash to keep people employed; to keep their health care. Cash to buy basic necessities, like food and medicine. So let's not think in terms of reviving growth for now. Let's think in terms of cash, so that for as long as we're in deep freeze, people can stay alive and continue to meet their financial obligations.
Seems ugly to me. I don't see how pumping trillions to keep markets liquid is gonna help people out of work. Likewise 1k and waived copays and postponed evictions not gonna do anything. Relaxed unemployment? BFD bills are gonna come due and those at the bottom of this economy are screwed.
The only positive I see is we will likely avoid our customary election year war on some random country
Boeing might be getting its bailout. I don't agree with it ( go sell some stock) but understand why it has to happen.
The movie in the link was from a time before the virus was upon us.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/business/boeing-bailout-trump/index.html
" Normally financial support for a company the importance of Boeing would not be a question during an economic crisis. The company has about 160,000 employees, most of them very well paid. All of the planes it builds are assembled in the United States. Its supplier base is mostly American. It is the nation's largest exporter and it is crucial to the operation of the nation's air transport system, which is itself a key to the nation's economy. It is also a major defense contractor.
" But Boeing is among the least popular companies on Capitol Hill. Former CEO Dennis Muilenburg came under withering criticism about the company's responsibility for the deaths in the crashes when he testified before House and Senate committees last year, shortly before he was forced out of his job.
"America's aerospace industry -- which supports over 2.5 million jobs and 17,000 suppliers -- is facing an urgent challenge resulting from the coronavirus pandemic," said Boeing's statement. "We appreciate how the administration and Congress are engaging with all elements of the aviation industry during this difficult time."
Quoted from cottonm4:I won't blame you. But I might pray for you
I'd be ok if it executed. It would get me another 100 shares at $216 basis. I mentioned a few weeks ago I'm trying to accumulate about 1000-1500 SPY shares. I've bought 600 so far, so the more I can average in lower the better. Once I'm done accumulating, I'm going to sell calls against them above my average price. Keep collecting premiums until the market recovers.
Quoted from rai:You are incorrect. All Social Security moneys are invested (earning interest). I don't know why people think that Social Security has been raided this FALSE.
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html
-----
By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds.
-----
Now that is not to say that Social Security as we know it won't run out of invested assets in 2035 (or whenever) but that has to do with paying out more money every year as more people live longer and as the payments grow larger (because people make more money today than they did 40 years ago etc..) so at some point the Social Security trust will be exhausted from paying out money (not from being raided). At that time SS will be payed solely from tax collections and might have to be cut 30% (or whatever) but SS taxes have been raised before and probably will be raised in the future to limit the amount that cut will need to be.
Social Security is taxed at 6.2% from both employee and employer it used to be 2% tax (1% from each) so if the tax rate has been raises many times in the past it will like be raised again before the trues runs out of money. Also the amount subject to tax is raised all the time and can be in the future.
[quoted image]
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Because it is a statement that has been going around for decades and people still believe it and keep spreading it. They stop caring once they start receiving the checks.
Quoted from cottonm4:Boeing might be getting its bailout. I don't agree with it ( go sell some stock) but understand why it has to happen.
The movie in the link was from a time before the virus was upon us.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/business/boeing-bailout-trump/index.html
" Normally financial support for a company the importance of Boeing would not be a question during an economic crisis. The company has about 160,000 employees, most of them very well paid. All of the planes it builds are assembled in the United States. Its supplier base is mostly American. It is the nation's largest exporter and it is crucial to the operation of the nation's air transport system, which is itself a key to the nation's economy. It is also a major defense contractor.
" But Boeing is among the least popular companies on Capitol Hill. Former CEO Dennis Muilenburg came under withering criticism about the company's responsibility for the deaths in the crashes when he testified before House and Senate committees last year, shortly before he was forced out of his job.
"America's aerospace industry -- which supports over 2.5 million jobs and 17,000 suppliers -- is facing an urgent challenge resulting from the coronavirus pandemic," said Boeing's statement. "We appreciate how the administration and Congress are engaging with all elements of the aviation industry during this difficult time."
CEO pay should have to go down to 100K before any discussion of a bailout occurring for any company, in my opinion. I'll never forget the auto execs showing up to Washington in their private jets begging for a hand out in 2009.
Quoted from usandthem:CEO pay should have to go down to 100K before any discussion of a bailout occurring for any company, in my opinion. I'll never forget the auto execs showing up to Washington in their private jets begging for a hand out in 2009.
A quote I saw on twitter on the reckoning of this kind of imbalance:
"Banning the working class from working during a pandemic but not banning the renter class from extracting rents has done more to instill an immediate and furious class consciousness than anything else I've ever seen."
Quoted from cait001:A quote I saw on twitter on the reckoning of this kind of imbalance:
"Banning the working class from working during a pandemic but not banning the renter class from extracting rents has done more to instill an immediate and furious class consciousness than anything else I've ever seen."
Never thought about it that way. Hmmm
Quoted from o-din:I just overnighted a copy so best case is tomorrow the market rebounds and it gets processed then, or worst case is the market continues to tank worst day ever.
It cashed out end of trading yesterday. That $26 overnight letter must have arrived today. I usually get these kind of things right, except when I listen to others or have a brain freeze.
On the bright side it was down less than 20% since the beginning of the year, and tomorrow it could be much worse.
Quoted from desertT1:I don’t think real estate will be affected very much with the current events. It might, but not like 08.
[SPG 58.86 -6.93 (-10.53%)] - Simon Property Group, Inc. is an American commercial real estate company, the largest retail real estate investment trust (REIT), and the largest shopping mall operator in the US. It owns or has an interest in more than 325 properties comprising approximately 241,000,000 square feet of gross leasable area in North America and Asia.
down 58% in less than a month, from 142.77 on feb 21 2020. also down 50% from 119 in the last 7 trading days. shuttered customers and closeed stores means no retail business, leads to vacancies, meaning no rent. likely results, declining property values.
as for residential, 2008 can happen again. even the most creditworthy might not be able to pay the mortgage if they lose their job/business. foreclosures add to supply, and with fewer qualified buyers to maintain demand, prices should go down. in addition, people may have to tap their 401K at market lows to make ends meet, hurting their retirement prospects.
Aussie market getting slaughtered as well
For a newb to shares it's exciting yet devastating at the same time to watch the madness.
I've pumped a bit into ASX shares and ETF's only to watch it slide further.
Another wipeout day !
Will hang on for the ride !
Hurry up with vaccine you medical gurus !
asx (resized).JPGQuoted from noob-a-tron:I thought our immune system was the vaccine. Once we get it second time around it wont do much am i missing something?
They don’t know yet whether having had the virus gives immunity.
There have been reports of people that had the virus several weeks after being deemed over it. Hopefully those were just cases where the person did not fully get over it.
Quoted from cottonm4:The rules are being made up as we go along.
Always seems that way with government, we seem to always be more reactionary then proactive.
Counter example:
Do you consider shingles to be mild? That’s a reoccurrence/flair up of chicken pox.
On topic, I quasi lucked out in that in my non-retirement account I was called away in January on about half my holdings. Not so lucky in that I initiated an energy position a week before the Saudi / Russia flair up. Oops. About a quarter of my other positions have been absolutely destroyed.
Have been looking for an entry point to put the rest of the funds back to work, but this volatility has made me keep my powder dry. Also, all this shelter in place stuff has put a question mark on our income stream. For better or worse Cash is King for us right now.
Quoted from noob-a-tron:I thought our immune system was the vaccine. Once we get it second time around it wont do much am i missing something?
Yes you are missing that this virus can kill as many as 1-2% of the people who get it and that if you are older than 60 you are at very great risk. So you are missing the point that all of the sudden 5-10% of older folks could die the first time they get it. Not to mention that young people can still die from this infection especially any with chronic diseases or immune deficiency.
These numbers are just deaths not counting how many millions will require weeks or months of hospital and ICU treatment, this will effect everyone not just the older folks because the hospitals will effectively become Coronavirus facilities and have far less resources for other medical treatments.
Also like the flu this virus may change and require vaccination every year (like the flu). It’s not like once you have had flu once you are immune to it forever.
The point of all these social distancing is that we don’t want everyone to get it because that would be like 2-4 million deaths in the US.
630AF408-8DF6-48DD-B72F-3DADD9B8971F (resized).png
Question. Using Microsoft as an example. It appears shares are currently at $139.00. If I order now, before the market opens, will I get $139.00 price or the next price when market opens?
Thanks
Woof, going to be a rough day in the markets. I hope the government can get cash into the hands of folks that need it.
I do not see anything changing my thesis that we still have a ways to go. Be careful buying stocks here if you are holding. This is definitely a trading market at this time. And always remember,
02EC4AFB-622B-4B6C-963C-CA182B8CBADA (resized).jpegQuoted from hank35:Question. Using Microsoft as an example. It appears shares are currently at $139.00. If I order now, before the market opens, will I get $139.00 price or the next price when market opens?
Thanks
Whatever the price is when the market opens.
Quoted from hank35:Question. Using Microsoft as an example. It appears shares are currently at $139.00. If I order now, before the market opens, will I get $139.00 price or the next price when market opens?
Thanks
Premarket is an indicator, not the price you will get. You will get whatever the opening trades are.
Quoted from hank35:Question. Using Microsoft as an example. It appears shares are currently at $139.00. If I order now, before the market opens, will I get $139.00 price or the next price when market opens?
Thanks
Any decent platform will let you trade in the pre and post market as well. So you could get it at the current price ($138.xx) if you use one of those brokers.
Cuban is on CNBC right now. I know I have seen this posted I. This thread or another, but he is absolutely correct. If companies get a bailout, there should be no stock buybacks and everybody should benefit proportionately. Plus he is speaking truth on how we should help hourly wage earners. This guy gets it!
Quoted from loneacer:Any decent platform will let you trade in the pre and post market as well. So you could get it at the current price ($138.xx) if you use one of those brokers.
I originally asked this question, because Fidelity appears to sell you shares at the current price, which was at $139.00 before open. I was ready to pull the trigger on $139, but was afraid that the price would reflect differently at open.
Quoted from loneacer:Any decent platform will let you trade in the pre and post market as well. So you could get it at the current price ($138.xx) if you use one of those brokers.
Sorry, you are correct. You would need to check to see if your broker allows for premarket trading...
Quoted from DBLM:Woof, going to be a rough day in the markets. I hope the government can get cash into the hands of folks that need it.
I do not see anything changing my thesis that we still have a ways to go. Be careful buying stocks here if you are holding. This is definitely a trading market at this time. And always remember,[quoted image]
The neat thing about trading is that there is always another train leaving the station.
Did that ship sail? There will be another ship docking real soon.
Boeing is off $22.00 per share. Now priced at $101.00 per share. 1 month ago it was a $330.00 stock. Now there is talk that the dividends need to go away. If Boeing holds out its hand for some govt. money, I agree the dividend needs to go away.
I wonder just how low can it go?
is anyone looking at Ford.. i know their P/E sucks currently (hah, getting better each downturn 
)but man.. 4.63 a share this am which has pushed their dividend yield to 12.96% Granted seems like April will be next dividend announcement and a lot can happen in the remainder of this month (given what has happened so far)
Quoted from Zablon:Dow just went under 20k. Even though I've felt from the beginning this was going to keep going down, honesty didn't expect it to go down THIS much.
We are in an unprecedented situation. DCFAN has been saying for a while now levels that he thinks we will reach. I kind of think we will be somewhere in the 16000-18000 range when we settle out. I look at it this way: we are just about a week into this becoming real for the US. How long do you think it will be a major factor. Picking a number at random, lets say 10 weeks. We are 1/10th of the way through it. Cases and deaths are a lagging indicator of where the spread really is. When those numbers catch up, it is going to have a psychological impact on people and markets. We are going to have periods of what passes for normal or stable punctuated by gut punches (death milestones, quarantines and measures, celebrity deaths, companies closing, when it personally impacts you, etc) that are going to take the market down. Psychologically, try to prepare yourselves that these things are going to happen, that they are natural in the sense that this is normal course of action for an event like this, and that every milestone represents one more point on the path of getting through this. Try to stay normal and in my case, I have seen that most of the COVID threads on here are actually not beneficial to me and have drained them. Just a lot of random stuff punctuated with politics and the like that are counterproductive to me. I am in a mindset that this is going to suck, it is going to get worse, but it is only for an amount of time. I realize that I am in a much better position than most, and that I should practice being more grateful and appreciative to others. I am trying to help out others in my community, and ask that others that can do likewise.
Quoted from cottonm4:Boeing is off $22.00 per share. Now priced at $101.00 per share. 1 month ago it was a $330.00 stock. Now there is talk that the dividends need to go away. If Boeing holds out its hand for some govt. money, I agree the dividend needs to go away.
I wonder just how low can it go?
I am a buyer @ $20 -$30
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I am a buyer @ $20 -$30
What does it feel like waiting for dinner to die?
Unemployment claims filed in Ohio:
Last Sunday: 536
This Sunday: 11,995
Monday: 36,645
At national level I don’t know if this is priced into the market quite yet.
Quoted from DBLM:We are in an unprecedented situation. dcfan has been saying for a while now levels that he thinks we will reach. I kind of think we will be somewhere in the 16000-18000 range when we settle out. I look at it this way: we are just about a week into this becoming real for the US. How long do you think it will be a major factor. Picking a number at random, lets say 10 weeks. We are 1/10th of the way through it. Cases and deaths are a lagging indicator of where the spread really is. When those numbers catch up, it is going to have a psychological impact on people and markets. We are going to have periods of what passes for normal or stable punctuated by gut punches (death milestones, quarantines and measures, celebrity deaths, companies closing, when it personally impacts you, etc) that are going to take the market down. Psychologically, try to prepare yourselves that these things are going to happen, that they are natural in the sense that this is normal course of action for an event like this, and that every milestone represents one more point on the path of getting through this. Try to stay normal and in my case, I have seen that most of the COVID threads on here are actually not beneficial to me and have drained them. Just a lot of random stuff punctuated with politics and the like that are counterproductive to me. I am in a mindset that this is going to suck, it is going to get worse, but it is only for an amount of time. I realize that I am in a much better position than most, and that I should practice being more grateful and appreciative to others. I am trying to help out others in my community, and ask that others that can do likewise.
Eh, I cashed out quite a bit of stock towards the top so I'm good. At the time people were still saying this was overreaction. My reasons were slightly different though as due to job regulations I was locked out of buying anything for the last 3 years. During that time everything went up a lot, but I could not add to positions. Therefore once it started going down it made more sense for me to lock in profits and wait this out. Now it's just a matter of figuring out when is a good time to get back in.
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